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TL Mafia XLVII - Page 158

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vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
November 29 2011 16:35 GMT
#3141
Lynching Palmer could very well be marked as the move that loses us this game guys. His role is so useful...

Wait does the sheriff gain the triple vote thing if Palmer dies?
annul
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2841 Posts
November 29 2011 16:36 GMT
#3142
no, sheriff only gets double lynch votes.

we very seriously need to gtfo of palmar.
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22632 Posts
November 29 2011 16:37 GMT
#3143
On November 30 2011 01:35 vaderseven wrote:
Lynching Palmer could very well be marked as the move that loses us this game guys. His role is so useful...

Wait does the sheriff gain the triple vote thing if Palmer dies?


Only the double lynches
Computer says mafia
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
November 29 2011 16:39 GMT
#3144
Ya ok that's what I thought. Until Palmer gets like really confirmed or starts to play anti town we need him alive.
Hassybaby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom10823 Posts
November 29 2011 16:40 GMT
#3145
For once Serejai, I agree with you
"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"
xtfftc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2343 Posts
November 29 2011 17:01 GMT
#3146

I have re-read my notes on Supersoft and am ready to vote for him. As I already said, he posts lots of fluff, tries hard not to irritate people and doesn't like taking a stance. There was already an extenssive case posted on Supersoft (one that he didn't bother defending himself from), so I'll just add some more notes. But frankly, even the fact that Supersoft is happy to completely ignore a long case made against him and post one-liners instead screams of mafia trying to blend in before the deadline.

During night 1 we were discussing whether double lynch should be used and some people (WBG, for example) argued that mafia will have the opportunity to derail the thread so that we don't end up with a proper discussion. There's a lot of players doing this - some trolls, some just can't help themselves because that's the way they always play every game anyway - but that's not like supersoft. He likes facilitating discussions and is strongly opinionated. Now look at his posts from day 2 onwards.

Stuff like "Palmar or BC are scum It's just too hard to decide between them." based on "I feel like we made it too easy to sheepvote and we're all responsible for that" is just wow. No reads, no analysis, no commitment, just "assuming" (his own word) something like that - right after "taking part of the blame" for allowing people to vote with no proper reason. And he didn't provide any case on BC anyway, just something based on Sandroba's analysis of the clue.

Another example of him being is how he said that discussing Palmar is not antitown, I said it was and he simply let it go ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&currentpage=138#2760 and http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&currentpage=139#2763). Didn't agree with my arguments, didn't disagree, didn't even call me a retard... And this is an opinion that he could have definitely presented some strong arguments in favour of.


##Vote: supersoft
Serejai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
6007 Posts
November 29 2011 17:05 GMT
#3147
##Unvote Palmar

##Vote supersoft


Finally, more sane people are showing up in the thread to see that supersoft is scum.
I HAVE 5 TOAST POINTS
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
November 29 2011 17:06 GMT
#3148
I largely agree, xtfftc, but Supersoft isn't in the conversation today, and we have hard evidence on a couple other people. Imo, we can save Supersoft for later. Voting him now just waists a vote.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
November 29 2011 17:07 GMT
#3149
Unless... everyone is willing to hope on the Serejai wagon? Can you two figure out if you have support for Supersoft now? Because otherwise, let's use our votes on the people who screwed up obviously like Risen and WBG, or the people we have clues on like Zeks.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
November 29 2011 17:09 GMT
#3150
Can we get vote count? Risen and Palmer are super close...

I will and can change my vote on heir to risen simply to keep Palmer alive if it comes to that.
zeks
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Canada1068 Posts
November 29 2011 17:11 GMT
#3151
On November 30 2011 00:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 20:52 Palmar wrote:
Btw, I'm up for lynching Ace today.

I'm actually up for dedicating one of the lynches today to either killing me or Ace. As long as town agrees to lynch the other should one flip town. While losing me as town mayor sucks, the influence Ace already has over town is troubling, and if I have to trade myself 1 for 1 against him, I'll do it.

If you're voting for Wherebugsgo, vote me instead, or preferably, Ace.

I think everyone in town can agree that dedicating one of the lynches today to not lynching based on clues, but analysis, is going to force people who would otherwise skirt by with doing clue analysis, to actually contribute to the thread.

In my book a one for one trade is a good one.

What do you say Ace, you up for a stand-off?



Hi Palmar. You wanted to trade 1 for 1 with ace, he flipped town. As such you should flip red.

Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 20:31 Palmar wrote:
Syllogism was out for his morning run when he stopped to tie his laces. He ran in marathons, and so each day he followed the same routine of waking up in the morning, putting on his tracksuit and going for a half-hour long run through the forest behind his house. Today was no different. Often, the trail he used was completely empty of other people, and so he was surprised when he finished tying his shoes to look up and see a man in a black trench-coat standing off to the side of the trail ahead of him. He was even more surprised when the man lifted a rifle and put two bullets into his chest.


"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference." - Zeks's profile linky

Syllogism running in woods obviously points to the forest, which can mean a number of people. However, the fact the clue mentions that the trail is usually completely empty, which directly corresponds with the fact that Zeks mentions taking the "less traveled by" road, leads me to believe this is our most obvious clue for today.

Not to mention, this is good in mulitple ways. If any of the DTs decided to follow through with the plan, they will be able to deduce something about their sanity through killing Zeks. He was on the DT check list.

As I mentioned during the night, after realizing he wasn't new Zeks is a complete null-read, which means he hasn't posted enough content to analyse. Seeing as he has not posted at all since making up his mind during the mayor elections, I am going to be voting for him today.

##Vote Zeks


IF HE IS A NULL READ YOU DO NOT LYNCH. You have no idea his alignment and are literally firing into a barrel hoping to hit a fish. Null reads + first day of clues are not how you lynch. A correct red lynch from these instances gives you absolutely nothing in terms of understanding how the clues work, on the people who vote for the lynch, on his scumbuddies etc..

You vote for people who are acting scummy in thread. People flip flopping their positions, blatent scum slipping, diverting lynches from solid targets to random people, etc....

You know this yet you vote off the first set of clues? ffs palmar. How is no one else seeing how blatant your being?

Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 01:23 Palmar wrote:
On November 29 2011 01:21 Ace wrote:
On November 29 2011 01:20 Palmar wrote:
He should be modkilled for that.


S.C.A.R.E.D. S.C.U.M.


I'll entertain you.

I would never accept such a deal. Even if it wasn't against the rules.

I'm suggesting modkilling you... if you flip town I'm going to be lynched faster than I can say asshole. So no, I'm not scared.


Again you repeat that you are expecting to die, almost as if your fine with it. He flipped town and now your instantly backstepping your position. Blatant scum move to never intent on upholding a deal you had struck originally. A townie would realize his mistake and appear almost sorry for the mistake made instead you respond with

Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 17:54 Palmar wrote:
On November 29 2011 17:17 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
On November 29 2011 15:14 Steveling wrote:
Just remember guys that we don't need to martyr Ace.
He was a towny but he might very well be off about his predictions.

This and the points in this post inspire me to
##Vote Steveling

And I don't trust officials I didn't get the chance to vote in
##Vote Palmar


That's retarded. Steveling and I are extremely unlikely to be both scum given how hard he's pushing against me.

Btw, since I'm gonna die anyway, I'm finally gonna revert to playing how I normally play. I don't need to be political anymore, and frankly, given Ace decided to troll the game, I don't care anymore.


Troll the game? He was being logical and playing his style straight up. Instantly pushing town objectives. But more importantly you said above zeks is a null read.

Welcome to this post.

Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 02:04 Palmar wrote:
First of all, I'm leaning town on sandroba now, especially after syllogism flipped. This means I put more value into any case presented by sandroba. He did ask me during the night about Zeks, to which I responded newbie town after skimming very fast over the Zeks's posts. When sandroba pointed out he wasn't a newbie, I re-classified him as null read.

I don't lynch null reads.

I don't lynch solely on clues.


I don't lynch lurkers for lurking.

But when someone does nothing to look town, has clues pointing against him, and just disappears off the face of the earth for the entire night, I think I have a reason to vote for him. When you combine three reasons who might not be individually be enough to lynch someone,



He has done nothing to prove his alignment either way and has only 1 clue pointing at him.. THIS IS A NULL READ. You are literally doing exactly what you said you don't do. Jesus Palmar. If it wasn't for the fact you hid gems like this in giant posts near no one reads you you'd get away with it. Once you kill the few people who can read you might be able to just type your red alignment repeatedly in your long posts.

Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 17:57 Palmar wrote:
On November 29 2011 10:37 redFF wrote:
oh come on it was clearly a fucking joke...

regardless that solidifies my read on palmar, just because ace is dead does not mean scum are going to take control of the thread. keep posting.

@mods that was dumb, i expect better of GM


Shut up.

I didn't tell the mods it, but I was going to ask to be replaced if he wasn't modkilled. Don't you fucking dare come in here and try to claim town credit post-modkill. I have no interest in playing with people who cheat, nothing to do with my alignment.


On November 29 2011 11:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Back from seeing the show and I will say this.

What the fuck at aces modkill? Why would you warn him, then ban him for the same post he was warned for? Insanely wtf.

Now then. ACE WAS MAKING A FUCK TON OF SENSE. His main push was palmar. The only people who would actively push his modkill if he was playing this pro town are mafia. Anyone with a brain could see his alignment. As such, make his damn death worth something and off palmar.


Same at you.

You're wrong and dumb and you know it. You're probably scum too. You'd make a nice mayor to this town. You can even bus a teammate or two at various points in the game to quell their fears.

Enjoy your free win.


Hey didn't above you expected to get lynched? That you wanted to 1v1 trade with ace? Now your saying you'd sub out like a bitch if he didn't get modkilled? Wheres that spirit for when annul edited a post? Editing posts is cheating regardless of the post, and without double counting the entire voting thread yourself you have no way of knowing if hes lying or not.

As for calling me dumb? You are resulting to personal attacks now? Have nothing else to use on me. *claps* its always so thrilling to know that someone can't actually analyze you so instead pushes insults.

Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 22:57 Palmar wrote:
On November 29 2011 22:50 Pigsquirrel wrote:
Lynching Palmar is a Bad Idea (TM). At this point, it really doesn't matter if he is town or scum as long as he is giving us double lynches. His triple vote won't come into play until later, I'd be in favor of a day 4 or maybe 3 lynch no matter what. It doesn't matter if he is scum or town; he is being pro-town. Lynching him takes the gamble that BC will also be pro-town.


Lynching me at any point in the game is a bad idea.

Remember, the entire case against me that isn't just trolling is the fact I lynched youngminii, and I think I've explained my thought process clearly enough on that.

Pushing a lynch on me is just pushing fear tactics. Sandroba is actually correct in his assessment that it's not worth taking the risk BC is scum. Anyone who still has his votes on me hasn't read the thread properly.

Sandroba, are you around?



Lynching you when you are red is clearly the best thing to do in the game. Clearing out scum from the elected positions is vitally important. Elected officials by nature have more sway in their posts. If you are scum and live you manipulate to many sheep voters that town cannot win. NOT pushing a lynch on you when you are believed to be scum on the basis "BC might be red" is fear mongering.

Show nested quote +
On November 30 2011 00:12 Palmar wrote:
On November 30 2011 00:06 DeadlyPsycho wrote:
Palmar, I'm interested to know what your stand is against what you said earlier, that if ace flips town, you are mafia? You said so yourself, one is mafia and the other town.


My stand is that apparently Ace is an asshole who refused to re-visit his stance (remember, I asked medics to protect him, because I though once he read my arguments he would realize I'm obvious town). When he didn't re-evaluate, I figured he was probably scum, but I forgot the options that aren't town and scum (namely asshole, and troll).

Now I did not expect him to get himself modkilled. But use your brain for a second, what does it mean that I said what I said?

Think hard before you post again.


Anyone look above to my posts. He says here that he did not expect ace to be modkilled. Meanwhile he was going to force the hosts to choose between them as players. This is not the attitude of someone you want to keep alive. You asked EVERY MED to protect him rather than just say "sheriff jail this guy". Why ask for all meds to do a job when 1 player can protect fully for a night?

I am taking off to work and wont be back till 1-3 hours before the lynch. When I come back I hope town has smartened up but if not, have fun diverting your lynch Palmar. You have a strong mafia play and are most likely going to win with it. I can do near nothing with this mass of sheep that instantly vote for the more baseless of lynches.

To all you voting for zeks on the information people ahve provided so far this game. You are bad. There is no case, there is a "look over there he might be red get him" when on closer inspection the man telling you to go look at the potential red guy is wearing a red suit holding a sign saying that hes mafia.



Listen to this man
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference."
xtfftc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2343 Posts
November 29 2011 17:14 GMT
#3152
I think you should all remove your votes from Palmar, Risen, WBG, serejai and annul.

annul is shouty and rude and is one of the players who are ruining the pro-town atmosphere. Also, him constantly trying to make a martyr of himself for fighting the good war against Palmar's immediate lynch, even though a lot of us have been calling against it from earlier, is very annoying. This is bad town play and it can be mafia play. But it is not enough to lynch him.

serejai is a troll and is thus unreadable for now. If a vigilante wants to shoot him, I wouldn't mind - but don't vote for his lynch. Also, don't feed the trolls. I will discuss banning him from future games after this one is over - but let's not trade winning for getting rid of him.
By the way, he shows some signs of thinking.

I have said a lot of WBG and I don't see the point of repeating myself. A lot of the stuff he says make no sense whatsoever but he is always like this. Try posting as much as he does and you'll probably end up the same. He is completely unreadable and every vote on him is a gamble.
Playing Mafia is not about gambling; it's no fun.

Palmar serves as a protection for BC. BC thinks that he would be able to survive for at least one and perhaps even two nights without having the mayor around and perhaps he is right - but I'm not that convinced of BC being town as well, so let's no try this. Stay on focus and Palmar's three vote power won't hurt town that much.

My file on Risen says:
very newbie townie

He made something that might be a scumslip or just him being completely unexperienced. Dunno, perhaps he thought that he would get an instant message from the mods if he was shot? Either way, I completely agree with WBG's post on him:

On November 29 2011 19:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
before I go to sleep, I wanted to state this:

Show nested quote +
On November 28 2011 12:09 Risen wrote:
Made it through my first day wooooooo


This is the entire fucking case on Risen.

Everything else in his filter is completely town-like, but you choose to vote for his lynched based on this?!

This looks like a scumslip. It very well could be a scumslip, but if we learned anything from day 1, it's that you don't lynch someone based on a single thing they said.


Risen is an extremely easy lynch based on no analysis whatsoever. Please don't go for it.
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
November 29 2011 17:15 GMT
#3153
Being off to uni for some hours and came back to see 20 more pages filled. Da fuck.

We should really push for annul to be modkilled. It is justified after all. He is active and his filter regardless if he flips green or red will show us the alingment of some people. It's a free lynch he gave us with that edit mistake.
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
November 29 2011 17:16 GMT
#3154
The if he flips scum than I am town was just bad play to post. Not bad play scum tell just bad. Ignoring it is by far the best call as town players post dumb things just as often as scum.
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
November 29 2011 17:16 GMT
#3155
annul edited a post and should be modkilled. Mods if you aren't going to follow your own rules then what's the point in playing.
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
November 29 2011 17:18 GMT
#3156
On November 30 2011 02:15 Steveling wrote:
Being off to uni for some hours and came back to see 20 more pages filled. Da fuck.

We should really push for annul to be modkilled. It is justified after all. He is active and his filter regardless if he flips green or red will show us the alingment of some people. It's a free lynch he gave us with that edit mistake.


How would him flipping town tell us anything about other players.

That has no logic behind it at all.
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
November 29 2011 17:19 GMT
#3157
Can someone link me to the post he edits again?
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
November 29 2011 17:19 GMT
#3158
On November 30 2011 02:18 vaderseven wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2011 02:15 Steveling wrote:
Being off to uni for some hours and came back to see 20 more pages filled. Da fuck.

We should really push for annul to be modkilled. It is justified after all. He is active and his filter regardless if he flips green or red will show us the alingment of some people. It's a free lynch he gave us with that edit mistake.


How would him flipping town tell us anything about other players.

That has no logic behind it at all.


If he flips town we get to filter those who targeted him.
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
November 29 2011 17:20 GMT
#3159
Oh its cut and dry in the open.

Edit once and get a warning. After the warning if you do it again you get mod killed. End of story that is the rules.
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22632 Posts
November 29 2011 17:22 GMT
#3160
Have you ever loved someone so much, you'd give an arm for?
Not the expression, no, literally give an arm for?
When they know they're your heart
And you know you were their armour
And you will destroy anyone who would try to harm them
But what happens when karma, turns right around and bites you?
And everything you stand for, turns on you to spite you?
What happens when you become the main source of their pain?


I fucked up.

I don't know where I went wrong, but I'm sure I will see it at some point. I am on a one way train to get-hanged-ville, and worst of all is I don't know what I did wrong. I have been doing extremely well as town lately in mafia, so I felt like I could trust myself to do this. Man, that backfired.

I did provide the best reasoning I had, on a day that had very, very little discussion going on. Sure, you can argue that the correct move would've been to lynch an inactive or a lurker, but I am a firm believer in not changing things that are working. I was on a seven game streak of accusing mafia on day 1. Why would I not trust myself?

Tebow may be the worst QB in the NFL, but they're not gonna bench him until he starts losing.

The fear of me being mafia is eclipsing way too much in the thread. Maybe the best way to settle this is for me to die. I mean, it's not obvious to any of you until I flip, but what Ace did infuriated me so much. It is impossible to set trap for townies, because they can't spring it by definition, so my assumption was that he actually had some kind of a plan to get a better read on my alignment.

Counting on Ace to be a reliable ally this game I decided to put a lot of effort into giving answers to him, only to find out the entire thing was just a ploy with no clear goal in mind, perhaps only to reinforce his already incorrect belief. Half the things he used as arguments weren't even correct, or at least pulled out of context. I guess you guys can imagine how much this frustrated me. In a game I'm already pouring my heart and soul in with so much activity, only to be stifled by having to spend the considerable time I'm putting into this game defending myself.

I feel like shit. I felt like I could do it, lead the town and help as much as I possibly could, but I don't have the radiant shine of town that some other players possess when they're town. This is my mistake, I should have known it. I acted as de-facto leader of town in Real Time Mafia, and yet, with 5/6 mafia down by day 3, and me leading at least 2 of those lynches, I still got heavily accused. I should have learned.

Maybe youngminii's remark that I should never be trusted should have been my first clue that this was not a good idea.

For anyone who wants perspective on why this is hard for me, you should probably know how I feel about playing mafia in general. I'll quote myself from a few months ago.

On August 16 2011 21:46 Palmar wrote:
Warning: Rant

+ Show Spoiler +
So, reading up on Zorkmid's thing made me remember how fucking madI get at people who cry about bad towns or themselves being tunneled are. Like, really, there is no one responsible but you. If the town is not agreeing with your logic, even if you're right, it's not because they are bad, it's because you are not doing a good enough job convincing them.

If you are being tunneled, it's not because whoever is tunneling is bad, it's because you haven't clearly enough established your innocence. I don't care how bad the reasons for tunneling you are, if you get lynched, you're the problem, not the people who got you lynched. If someone got you lynched with terrible reasoning or on policy, good job them! Sure they may be town too, and thus be detrimental, but if you are town, you must be able to deflect that shit. Let that sink in for a moment. Someone came up with TERRIBLE reasons, and yet he still managed to get you lynched. How bad does that make you?

Getting lynched in a mafia game is always your own fault, there is nothing else that can make you get lynched than you failing. Even when the odds are stacked against you (you're red, and a dt has a check on you), the responsibility is yours to make sure they hang some other bastard.

If you think there exists something called "bad town" you're part of the problem. Part of your responsibility is to find out what kind of logic appeals to the town you're trying to convince. You'd not use the same methods to explain something to a bunch of kids, and to a board of executives. It's your responsibility to tailor-make the arguments to fit the people you're trying to convince.

If person a) says "LOL, YOU MAFIA" and you say "No, here's a detailed analysis of why you must be scum", yet the town lynches you anyway, it's YOUR fault. You did not recognize what arguments would work with the town you're playing with.

It's never someone else's fault.
There is no such thing as bad towns.

The only answer to the question "Why did we lose?" is "Because I am terrible and must improve".


I'm sorry town. Maybe I was the problem.

Good luck

And when I'm gone, just carry on, don't mourn
Rejoice every time you hear the sound of my voice
Just know that I'm looking down on you smiling
And I didn't feel a thing, So baby don't feel my pain
Just smile back




Computer says mafia
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