EPTTL Mafia XLVII - Page 113
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
But I'm no longer discussing that right now. Tomorrow, since this game is ridiculous anyway with all of these stupid roles and Vigilantes that can't shoot on Night 1 we lynch Palmar. Keep blowing your breath on and on about Serejai because at this moment you aren't convincing me. Talk to someone else. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On November 28 2011 10:16 Ace wrote: Yes. Can you explain why you lynched YM? Also what have you produced? Be careful how you answer it because I'm even telling you right now - it is a trap question. Have fun. You said you read my posts right? The reason I lynched youngminii is fairly well outlined in the case I posted against him. I do think he's a good player, and I do think his initial reaction to my campaign was extremely anti town. He immediately started discrediting me, without doing much to investigate my alignment first. Compare this to for example PYP:I where I as town supported Radfield (town too) into office. I know just how dangerous Radfield can be as scum, and I also know how good he is at town. So the best way to deal with such a candidate is to carefully try to determine his alignment, and then support or oppose it based on something real to deal with. Strictly opposing voting someone into office based on the fact that he's good as scum, is incorrect play. Knowing my own alignment, I obviously know YM must either be scum or bitter town, because what he did was not the logical way to play out the situation, it was simply inspired by fear of me as mayor. In hindsight, it was just a townie fear I would somehow lead the town into it's death. I made the final decision to lynch him when he claimed vanilla town. Youngminii's play was from my perspective completely anti-town, and seeing as the worst case scenario is a mislynch on a townie dead-set to oppose me in office, and the best case scenario (remember, prior to this game I was on a hot streak of getting day 1 reads correct, so I felt a bit cocky), is I lynch a scum on day 1. As for your trap, let's spring it. I wanna see what you can come up with. I am always a controversial figure in town. Just the simple act of putting forth a serious campaign is pro-town, because there will always be vocal personalities against me. On top of that I've tried my best to answer every question thrown my way, attack every piece of bad or incorrect logic I have seen along the way, and in general remained very active. I keep trying to get people to read the thread, I've tried to be less of a dick than I normally am (at this point in games I'm usually shouting at someone), all in order to try and get newer players to participate. And yes, I think I have helped town by providing relevant information. I am not going to shy away from arguments or ignore pushes against me. I want people to tell me I'm scum, and I want to argue with them, because it gives everyone insight into how we work. I expect to be lynched at some point in this game, such is the nature of being in a position like mine. Especially if we fail to produce scum tomorrow my ass will be on fire. The more I make people argue for my lynch, the brighter light will be shone on their true intentions when I flip. I expect to go down at some point, but it won't be quiet. Tomorrow is the time for scumhunting. Depending on the route you take there, you may prove yourself to be an asset to town, or a liability. If you do not read the game again, and realize I'm town, it will in the end come down head to head, me against you, and you're at an inherent disadvantage because I'm not scum. What are you? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
If he's scum he will reveal it soon enough. If he's town, he's our best player. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On November 28 2011 10:41 Palmar wrote: @medics, protect Ace. If he's scum he will reveal it soon enough. If he's town, he's our best player. What a devious plan by you. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On November 28 2011 10:41 Palmar wrote: @medics, protect Ace. If he's scum he will reveal it soon enough. If he's town, he's our best player. All medics ignore this advice, Ace is already covered. | ||
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Hier
2391 Posts
On November 28 2011 10:47 BloodyC0bbler wrote: All medics ignore this advice, Ace is already covered. Excessively curious. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
It should also be extremely obvious | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On November 28 2011 10:41 Palmar wrote: @medics, protect Ace. If he's scum he will reveal it soon enough. If he's town, he's our best player. That's as clear a scum tell as it gets for me. Couln't be any more clear cut tbh. | ||
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Hier
2391 Posts
On November 28 2011 10:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote: It should also be extremely obvious That was my point. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 28 2011 10:34 Ace wrote: Yes I do. You seem to want to get rid of anyone who doesn't see things your way or call them stupid. You are being a trouble maker attempting to disguise it as Scum hunting. You haven't even proven anyone you've accused is Scum. The best you've got is that Serejai has accused a bunch of people, which somehow is worse than ym being lynched. But I'm no longer discussing that right now. Tomorrow, since this game is ridiculous anyway with all of these stupid roles and Vigilantes that can't shoot on Night 1 we lynch Palmar. Keep blowing your breath on and on about Serejai because at this moment you aren't convincing me. Talk to someone else. you can't ever prove anything in this game, your point? You haven't proven Palmar is scum either, so why accuse me of being a disguised trouble maker on those grounds if you hold me to an unattainable standard that you yourself cannot achieve? I'm not blowing my breath on Serejai. He's not a concern to me because he has no sway in town, and as long as that persists I'm simply going to ignore him. If he did, I'd actually be worried, since that would mean the town isn't listening to logic. For the most part, logical calls are going through, which pleases me. Not everyone is thinking or playing well, which isn't unexpected, and there has been a considerable amount of fear mongering, but otherwise I'm content with our position right now. If you want to lynch Palmar, go ahead and make a case for it. If it's convincing enough to switch my vote off deconduo tomorrow I'll be impressed. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 28 2011 10:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote: It should also be extremely obvious If the obvious is actually true, then you are an idiot. Being the mayor does not stop roleblocks. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
sheriff jailing isn't affected by roleblocks. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On November 28 2011 10:54 wherebugsgo wrote: If the obvious is actually true, then you are an idiot. Being the mayor does not stop roleblocks. Read the OP, my sheriff ability is immune to roleblocks. -_- | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Oh well lololol | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On November 28 2011 10:47 BloodyC0bbler wrote: All medics ignore this advice, Ace is already covered. Agreed, since BC will take care of him. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
No idea why you brought up Radfield and your support of him in PYP:I. That is irrelevant to the discussion and to this game. Knowing my own alignment, I obviously know YM must either be scum or bitter town, because what he did was not the logical way to play out the situation, it was simply inspired by fear of me as mayor. In hindsight, it was just a townie fear I would somehow lead the town into it's death. Unfortunately you slipped up here. Knowing your own alignment, which ym does not know, does not make the rest of the statement true. You can't call him out on not playing in a logical way when your alignment, which you base the statement off of, isn't known to him. The second statement is true - he was inspired by fear. And guess what? There is nothing wrong with that. In fact it's perfectly justifiable that someone you have played with before will want to deny you a powerful position because of the potential damage that can be done. This does not prove he is Scum, and actually makes it look more likely that ym was Town. I made the final decision to lynch him when he claimed vanilla town. Youngminii's play was from my perspective completely anti-town, and seeing as the worst case scenario is a mislynch on a townie dead-set to oppose me in office, and the best case scenario (remember, prior to this game I was on a hot streak of getting day 1 reads correct, so I felt a bit cocky), is I lynch a scum on day 1. What else would he claim? It's day 1. You are, once again showing you can not view this game in a large perspective. Step back and think about it. He claims Vanilla Town Day 1. You don't know his alignment in an 80 player game. So you are going to justify lynching him because "well, he's Vanilla anyway"? That is a very big mistake there. You even dug your own grave with a follow up sentence: worst case scenario is you mislynch a Townie dead set to oppose you in office. Tell me Palmar, what can ym do to you by himself? He can't lynch you unless he gets support. So what you are telling me is that you feared ym or you lynched him because he was a thorn in your side? A Mayor that can't handle opposition isn't fit you be Mayor. You ran on a platform in which you touted yourself as a good player. How could you even make such a simple mistake as a leader? I am always a controversial figure in town. Just the simple act of putting forth a serious campaign is pro-town, because there will always be vocal personalities against me. On top of that I've tried my best to answer every question thrown my way, attack every piece of bad or incorrect logic I have seen along the way, and in general remained very active. Putting forth a campaign is not Pro-Town as it does nothing to reveal your alignment to the rest of the Town or further our win condition. Scum can campaign just as easily as Town and nothing about your behavior can be gleaned from it. Being active also doesn't make you Pro-Town. Neither does answering questions. Sure, you can make yourself more transparent but if you're going to lynch people that oppose you then you aren't actually doing anything that is Pro-Town. Let's simplify this even further.Between the 2 factions who would more likely lynch an active player that opposes their point of view, Scum or Town? If you really wanted to appear Pro-Town you'd do your best to convince ym while not undermining him, and if that fails you drop the arguments and move on to more productive means of finding Scum. If he opposes you then let him. Until you are in danger of being lynched or he is corrupting your Scum hunting efforts then yes, you'd have a serious case to lynch him. But on day 1? Not at all. No Town player who thinks he is as good as you do would make such a simple mistake. I keep trying to get people to read the thread, I've tried to be less of a dick than I normally am (at this point in games I'm usually shouting at someone), all in order to try and get newer players to participate. And yes, I think I have helped town by providing relevant information. I am not going to shy away from arguments or ignore pushes against me. I want people to tell me I'm scum, and I want to argue with them, because it gives everyone insight into how we work. What relevant information have you provided? So far I don't see anything that has us dead set on a path to finding Scum. I could be wrong so I'm asking this hoping to be clarified. I expect to be lynched at some point in this game, such is the nature of being in a position like mine. Especially if we fail to produce scum tomorrow my ass will be on fire. The more I make people argue for my lynch, the brighter light will be shone on their true intentions when I flip. I expect to go down at some point, but it won't be quiet. Tomorrow is the time for scumhunting. Depending on the route you take there, you may prove yourself to be an asset to town, or a liability. If you do not read the game again, and realize I'm town, it will in the end come down head to head, me against you, and you're at an inherent disadvantage because I'm not scum. This is starting to sound remarkeably familiar. Just like L, one of the best Scum players this forum has ever seen. Ahead of time pretend like you will be responsible for future failures. Once again, let's be reasonable here: If you know ahead of time that you will be lynched for failure then why would you run for Mayor? It doesn't boost your ability to Scum hunt. So you could do so without Mayoral abilities and not risk lynch for failure. This doesn't make sense. What are you? Town. As for your trap, let's spring it. I wanna see what you can come up with. Snap. Crackle. Pop. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
It is very clear as he stated multiple times he feared you being in office IF you are Scum. Let that sink in. He even makes it very clear in one of his posts that really get to the heart of the matter - you do not need to be Mayor to Scumhunt. No idea why you brought up Radfield and your support of him in PYP:I. That is irrelevant to the discussion and to this game. I brought it up precisely because of this. Youngminii, without any prior attempt at determining my alignment, opposed my candidacy. I brought Radfield up because that's how I expect anyone playing logically to approach the elections. Look first to the strongest candidate, try to deduce his alignment, and if feeling good enough about it vote him, otherwise oppose. It's not the way YM took. Unfortunately you slipped up here. Knowing your own alignment, which ym does not know, does not make the rest of the statement true. You can't call him out on not playing in a logical way when your alignment, which you base the statement off of, isn't known to him. The second statement is true - he was inspired by fear. And guess what? There is nothing wrong with that. In fact it's perfectly justifiable that someone you have played with before will want to deny you a powerful position because of the potential damage that can be done. This does not prove he is Scum, and actually makes it look more likely that ym was Town. Same as above really, by the way, which part is the slip up? All you say in this paragraph is just the same stuff you said earlier, that you agree with the method YM used, while I disagree with it. You can call it wrong if you like, if I don't agree with someone I usually call it wrong. Calling it a slip, and then not explaining how that is a slip? I'm not so sure. What else would he claim? It's day 1. You are, once again showing you can not view this game in a large perspective. Step back and think about it. He claims Vanilla Town Day 1. You don't know his alignment in an 80 player game. So you are going to justify lynching him because "well, he's Vanilla anyway"? That is a very big mistake there. You even dug your own grave with a follow up sentence: worst case scenario is you mislynch a Townie dead set to oppose you in office. Tell me Palmar, what can ym do to you by himself? He can't lynch you unless he gets support. So what you are telling me is that you feared ym or you lynched him because he was a thorn in your side? A Mayor that can't handle opposition isn't fit you be Mayor. You ran on a platform in which you touted yourself as a good player. How could you even make such a simple mistake as a leader? When put up against the wall I expect correct claims. Once again I have a feeling you're not going to agree that's the right way to play, but it's how I have played, and I stand by it until I start losing terribly. How did I dig my own grave? Isn't what I said the truth? Should I try to... skirt around such things? I'm not sure what you're expecting here. I believe I am a good player, prior to you joining the game I think I can outargue anyone in the game, I'm not sure I can do that with you. I didn't fear him, I said that he would be opposing me for a long time. I had no illusions that he was going to be able to win arguments against me. Other players with more weight behind them were already vocally opposing my candidacy. Syllogism, Sandroba and BC all called me out on various things, and if I was scum, I'd be much more afraid of those players. It's not the fact he opposed me, it's HOW he opposed me that matters. Putting forth a campaign is not Pro-Town as it does nothing to reveal your alignment to the rest of the Town or further our win condition. Scum can campaign just as easily as Town and nothing about your behavior can be gleaned from it. Being active also doesn't make you Pro-Town. Neither does answering questions. Sure, you can make yourself more transparent but if you're going to lynch people that oppose you then you aren't actually doing anything that is Pro-Town. Let's simplify this even further.Between the 2 factions who would more likely lynch an active player that opposes their point of view, Scum or Town? If you really wanted to appear Pro-Town you'd do your best to convince ym while not undermining him, and if that fails you drop the arguments and move on to more productive means of finding Scum. If he opposes you then let him. Until you are in danger of being lynched or he is corrupting your Scum hunting efforts then yes, you'd have a serious case to lynch him. But on day 1? Not at all. No Town player who thinks he is as good as you do would make such a simple mistake. Up until this game, lynching people who oppose me when I'm town has been a very fruitful strategy. Maybe I have been dealing with bad mafia, I have on multiple occasions stated I feel TL mafia play is not up to par. As already stated I am always controversial, it's one of the reasons I succeed at scumhunting. I make myself the center of attention, and try to figure out who is calling me out in a scummy way, and who is calling me out in a non-scum way. Your last paragraph is actually correct. The best way to deal with players who make incorrect plays is to actively try to convince them. If they stand by their ridiculousness without listening to logic, then they're probably scum. I got cocky and ran with it. What relevant information have you provided? So far I don't see anything that has us dead set on a path to finding Scum. I could be wrong so I'm asking this hoping to be clarified. So far I have provided town with arguments, about the plan, about the double lynches, about the possible lynch on day one. Through all this information can be determined. The fact that I have also provided a lot of advice and explanation is not relevant to my alignment, as I could be doing that as scum too. Read through my filter. This is my best attempt at creating as much useful content as I can. This is starting to sound remarkeably familiar. Just like L, one of the best Scum players this forum has ever seen. Ahead of time pretend like you will be responsible for future failures. Once again, let's be reasonable here: If you know ahead of time that you will be lynched for failure then why would you run for Mayor? It doesn't boost your ability to Scum hunt. So you could do so without Mayoral abilities and not risk lynch for failure. This doesn't make sense. While I'd love to be able to accept the compliment, you are wrong. I also dread you calling me terrible if you successfully push this through. You cannot retroactively apply something like this. As I already said I have the confidence to outargue anyone in this game, up until you joined it. Before you joined I had no fear I was going to be lynched tomorrow, none at all, as can probably be seen in my posting. Now, there is a slight chance you'll manage to convince town to run with this. Which means it's even more of my responsibility to try my very best to both defend and clear myself. However, even if I fail, and you succeed in getting me lynched, you will not get away with it. I know you are able to determine my alignment, you will not be able to shake this off as me being bad, or having made the incorrect play, because that's exactly what you'll try to prove. You cannot prove I'm scum because I am not scum, this means that you'll be using incorrect logic to determine my alignment. And for someone who is supposed to be good at this, incorrect logic will go unpunished. You will be held responsible, because you know I am town. Snap. Crackle. Pop. Disappointing Catch. | ||
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