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On November 28 2011 06:40 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 06:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 28 2011 06:29 xtfftc wrote:On November 28 2011 06:17 Steveling wrote:On November 28 2011 06:10 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for the whole bit about double lynching at this moment in time. Why the fuck are we doing it? We have at the moment 9 modkills as we only know Ace is going to sub in. Chances are most of these are going to be townies and townies tend to be the bulk of modkills in games. So of 9 people we might get 1 or 2 reds IF we are lucky. More than likely we will have 9 townies. Why would you then want to double lynch? We would be down YM lynch, all of tonights shots, + all the modkills. If we don't have insanely good reads at this moment in time and miss lynch we lose another day towards lylo. My issue with this is the same people who are against vigi's shooting early and clearing out suspects are the ones pushing double lynch without 100% info. We have no idea if the mafia has their own vigis or lurker banes which could add even more KP ontop of their base 8. Wasting town KP, especially KP that the mafia can manipulate early on into the game baffles me beyond belief. The same people who opposed clearing out suspects with vigi's and dts confirming sanity are the same people pushing for the waste of double lynches.
A new take on the DL issue. Any comments on that? It's not exactly new: it has already been addressed that discussing lynch targets extensively forces mafia to contribute, which provides us with information. Yes, so does a single lynch. The information garnered provied people participate is still earned and you can better use that to use the next day. Trying to get a fuck ton of information off the same concept but hoping to strike gold twice is retarded. It also allows the thread to be read more easily and people who do post analyzed more effectively. This is going to be day 2, not 3 or 4 where information is flowing like candy. I am not "hoping to strike gold twice", all I want is the fuckton of information. Earlier I said that I don't think that lynching two mafia players is imperative (and I got FOS-ed by annul as a result ^^). But having to lynch two people instead of one will make it much harder for mafia to bus someone who acts stupid (like YM did on day 1, for example).
To quote many players in the past. You do not lynch for information. You lynch to kill scum. Is information garnered? Yes. However you do not off someone purely for information you do it because analysis made indicated that player was scum. You do not ever lynch purely for information. You will get the massive amount of information via the night hits that you dont need the double lynch. Seriously people.
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On November 28 2011 06:31 Ace wrote:Oh BC the mods don't want me in this game. I'd hate to rip this game to pieces and end all the 80 player fun in 5 minutes 
as if...
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On November 28 2011 06:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 06:40 xtfftc wrote:On November 28 2011 06:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 28 2011 06:29 xtfftc wrote:On November 28 2011 06:17 Steveling wrote:On November 28 2011 06:10 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for the whole bit about double lynching at this moment in time. Why the fuck are we doing it? We have at the moment 9 modkills as we only know Ace is going to sub in. Chances are most of these are going to be townies and townies tend to be the bulk of modkills in games. So of 9 people we might get 1 or 2 reds IF we are lucky. More than likely we will have 9 townies. Why would you then want to double lynch? We would be down YM lynch, all of tonights shots, + all the modkills. If we don't have insanely good reads at this moment in time and miss lynch we lose another day towards lylo. My issue with this is the same people who are against vigi's shooting early and clearing out suspects are the ones pushing double lynch without 100% info. We have no idea if the mafia has their own vigis or lurker banes which could add even more KP ontop of their base 8. Wasting town KP, especially KP that the mafia can manipulate early on into the game baffles me beyond belief. The same people who opposed clearing out suspects with vigi's and dts confirming sanity are the same people pushing for the waste of double lynches.
A new take on the DL issue. Any comments on that? It's not exactly new: it has already been addressed that discussing lynch targets extensively forces mafia to contribute, which provides us with information. Yes, so does a single lynch. The information garnered provied people participate is still earned and you can better use that to use the next day. Trying to get a fuck ton of information off the same concept but hoping to strike gold twice is retarded. It also allows the thread to be read more easily and people who do post analyzed more effectively. This is going to be day 2, not 3 or 4 where information is flowing like candy. I am not "hoping to strike gold twice", all I want is the fuckton of information. Earlier I said that I don't think that lynching two mafia players is imperative (and I got FOS-ed by annul as a result ^^). But having to lynch two people instead of one will make it much harder for mafia to bus someone who acts stupid (like YM did on day 1, for example). To quote many players in the past. You do not lynch for information. You lynch to kill scum. Is information garnered? Yes. However you do not off someone purely for information you do it because analysis made indicated that player was scum. You do not ever lynch purely for information. You will get the massive amount of information via the night hits that you dont need the double lynch. Seriously people.
These are two completely different concepts. The "don't lynch for information" one applies to choosing your lynch target - and I completely agree with it and will base my vote tomorrow on analysis.
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You said you want a fuckton of information and that missing two mafia is not imperative. they have 8 guarenteed kp and potentially more if they got lurker banes or vigi's. If we do not by now have enough analysis to determine two people then we have waited too long. Town is too divided and although the coming day might create an ever bigger push to off any of the largest vocal people anyone sitting back and pushing the conversation along or adding wood to the flames gets off scott free.
We need to seriously step back and get on track and at least act like a somewhat organized unit. There may be a few active mafia members talking right now but most of the people arguing are most likely townies.
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There are also 16 mafia, Palmar received like 30 some votes.
With mafia constituting so many players a double lynch is incredibly manipulable.
If I were scum I'd love a double lynch day 2. It would give me the tools to go and defecate repeatedly all over the thread and at the same time come out of it alive with two townies dead and a chance wasted for town.
That sounds a lot more fun than trying to convince all of the rest of you that you're not thinking.
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Oh wow, he only received 20. Lol that just furthers my point even more.
With 10 modkills and at least a half dozen deaths tonight we'll be looking at 45ish townies and 16 scum.
The winning mayor received 20 votes day 1. If we double lynch then scum is pretty much guaranteed to kill one townie with it tomorrow, simply thanks to numbers and sheer influence. We can have a correct read and push it like mad and we'll still get destroyed because our attention will be so divided.
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On November 28 2011 07:03 wherebugsgo wrote:
Oh wow, he only received 20. Lol that just furthers my point even more.
With 10 modkills and at least a half dozen deaths tonight we'll be looking at 45ish townies and 16 scum.
The winning mayor received 20 votes day 1. If we double lynch then scum is pretty much guaranteed to kill one townie with it tomorrow, simply thanks to numbers and sheer influence. We can have a correct read and push it like mad and we'll still get destroyed because our attention will be so divided.
Lets hope the modkills will be also within the scum
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btw. BC I got some questions:
On November 27 2011 05:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 05:01 supersoft wrote:
Why don't you post any scumreads you have, BC? because a scum read that is currently based on day 1 analysis is not solid enough. It instead is a list of players who seem off to you based on gut reads. The only one I will mention as I have been directly confronting is syllo. His play is spotty, but its day 1. Anyone who has directly proposed the town from trying to organize how to act I believe is suspect but most people have not given me enough reason to push their lynch at this point.
On November 27 2011 05:29 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 05:26 bumatlarge wrote:On November 27 2011 05:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 27 2011 05:01 supersoft wrote:
Why don't you post any scumreads you have, BC? because a scum read that is currently based on day 1 analysis is not solid enough. It instead is a list of players who seem off to you based on gut reads. The only one I will mention as I have been directly confronting is syllo. His play is spotty, but its day 1. Anyone who has directly proposed the town from trying to organize how to act I believe is suspect but most people have not given me enough reason to push their lynch at this point. Lynch supersoft or kenpachi and you have my vote. I don't always agree with serejai, but when I do, it's that supersoft is scum. On November 26 2011 20:37 supersoft wrote:On November 26 2011 20:32 intrigue wrote:On November 26 2011 19:32 supersoft wrote:On November 26 2011 19:28 tree.hugger wrote:
Hey hey everyone, this is awkward timing, I'm in Sweden for Dreamhack (this is easily verifiable) and I'm having to run everywhere all day. I'll be back tomorrow probably, but I obviously need to explain my inactivity. vote yourself, dont get modkilled. We will take care of you tomorrow. ;-) who's "we"? and by "take care" do you mean you'll keep him safe? (if so why?) or is it a euphemism for killing him, because you're mafia? "we" are the more experienced players. taking care is something like this: On November 26 2011 19:25 supersoft wrote:On November 26 2011 19:19 vaderseven wrote:
hum a typical day.
no idea really how to play this cuz of the sheer size of this...
I don't like several posts but I can't actually say its beyond the fact that I really dislike some of the post styles I am seeing BUT ITS DAY 1 SO THINGS MIGHT LEVEL OUT.
I am not used to being forced into a vote (seems like a TL mafia thing over other places i've played) so I am going to have to vote for myself simply because I am stuck going 'but if' everytime I try to see if I could get behind someone.
I mainly dont buy into the the top two vote leaders for this mayor race and don't want to 'not vote' cuz that is against the rules.
okay, I understand, that you don't want to dig through all this. But I got a little job for you to do: Can you please filter prplhz, erandorr and Youngminii and tell us what you think about them? Would be great. Thanks. Screams agenda. Also let me analyze kenpachi. On November 26 2011 08:13 Kenpachi wrote:
NEVER lynch Sinani.
Thats like lynching me.
and town loses when i get lynched All done! I won't get mayor so I can't say I will day 1 lynch either of them. If supersoft continues playing as he is I can easily see myself pushing his lynch/vig shoot him however.
okay, regardless that this accuse is based on nothing but the judgement of a troll, is there a correlation between you accusing me for nothing and my voteflow predictions:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=64722¤tpage=4
On November 27 2011 04:34 supersoft wrote:
why doesn't that influence your vote?! I mean if Palmar is town, sandro and BC are either both town/both scum OR sandro is scum. You realize that there are 16 scumteammembers... If they'd put 7-8 votes on their candidate, he's easily sherrif...
am I too dangerous for you, because I saw your scumplan before it even happened?
Let's face it. You contradict yourself by telling me, that you have no legitimate scumreads on day1 and like 5 pages after that you bandwagon a trollaccuse. You're scum.
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On November 28 2011 02:48 Hassybaby wrote:
Mods, how far would you consider going to help the new players with their roll allocations?
For reference
I think there was some guy vets tried to get in this game earlier on who kept saying he has no time BUT would love to help new people if they got problems. So probably just hit a pm to a host, ask if they think it's ok to ask an out of game guy questions (he can't tell you something you're not supposed to know by accident because he got no information) and if the hosts agree you just pm this guy.
I don't know what his name was, something starting with "Ka" I think? Also it probably is located somewhere before day1-post.
If someone knows who I'm talking about pls tell the name or link the post he did :p
Also just arrived at home. So I still have to read 5 pages and if that was already answered I'm sorry but it's maybe helpful for those new guys.
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On November 28 2011 07:05 supersoft wrote:btw. BC I got some questions:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 05:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 27 2011 05:01 supersoft wrote:
Why don't you post any scumreads you have, BC? because a scum read that is currently based on day 1 analysis is not solid enough. It instead is a list of players who seem off to you based on gut reads. The only one I will mention as I have been directly confronting is syllo. His play is spotty, but its day 1. Anyone who has directly proposed the town from trying to organize how to act I believe is suspect but most people have not given me enough reason to push their lynch at this point. Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 05:29 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 27 2011 05:26 bumatlarge wrote:On November 27 2011 05:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 27 2011 05:01 supersoft wrote:
Why don't you post any scumreads you have, BC? because a scum read that is currently based on day 1 analysis is not solid enough. It instead is a list of players who seem off to you based on gut reads. The only one I will mention as I have been directly confronting is syllo. His play is spotty, but its day 1. Anyone who has directly proposed the town from trying to organize how to act I believe is suspect but most people have not given me enough reason to push their lynch at this point. Lynch supersoft or kenpachi and you have my vote. I don't always agree with serejai, but when I do, it's that supersoft is scum. On November 26 2011 20:37 supersoft wrote:On November 26 2011 20:32 intrigue wrote:On November 26 2011 19:32 supersoft wrote:On November 26 2011 19:28 tree.hugger wrote:
Hey hey everyone, this is awkward timing, I'm in Sweden for Dreamhack (this is easily verifiable) and I'm having to run everywhere all day. I'll be back tomorrow probably, but I obviously need to explain my inactivity. vote yourself, dont get modkilled. We will take care of you tomorrow. ;-) who's "we"? and by "take care" do you mean you'll keep him safe? (if so why?) or is it a euphemism for killing him, because you're mafia? "we" are the more experienced players. taking care is something like this: On November 26 2011 19:25 supersoft wrote:On November 26 2011 19:19 vaderseven wrote:
hum a typical day.
no idea really how to play this cuz of the sheer size of this...
I don't like several posts but I can't actually say its beyond the fact that I really dislike some of the post styles I am seeing BUT ITS DAY 1 SO THINGS MIGHT LEVEL OUT.
I am not used to being forced into a vote (seems like a TL mafia thing over other places i've played) so I am going to have to vote for myself simply because I am stuck going 'but if' everytime I try to see if I could get behind someone.
I mainly dont buy into the the top two vote leaders for this mayor race and don't want to 'not vote' cuz that is against the rules.
okay, I understand, that you don't want to dig through all this. But I got a little job for you to do: Can you please filter prplhz, erandorr and Youngminii and tell us what you think about them? Would be great. Thanks. Screams agenda. Also let me analyze kenpachi. On November 26 2011 08:13 Kenpachi wrote:
NEVER lynch Sinani.
Thats like lynching me.
and town loses when i get lynched All done! I won't get mayor so I can't say I will day 1 lynch either of them. If supersoft continues playing as he is I can easily see myself pushing his lynch/vig shoot him however. okay, regardless that this accuse is based on nothing but the judgement of a troll, is there a correlation between you accusing me for nothing and my voteflow predictions: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=64722¤tpage=4Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 04:34 supersoft wrote:
why doesn't that influence your vote?! I mean if Palmar is town, sandro and BC are either both town/both scum OR sandro is scum. You realize that there are 16 scumteammembers... If they'd put 7-8 votes on their candidate, he's easily sherrif... am I too dangerous for you, because I saw your scumplan before it even happened? Let's face it. You contradict yourself by telling me, that you have no legitimate scumreads on day1 and like 5 pages after that you bandwagon a trollaccuse. You're scum.
Bandwagon? You use shit logic like the shit you just did. Your play is spotty and terrible and would have made a great day 1 lynch. Did I actively push you? No. When it came to actually trying to get palmar to lynch someone did I even mention your name? No. So sit back in your corner and try again when you have a real post please.
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dts ignore dt lists, they are far too easily manipulable by scum. Medic lists are good but not necessary, medics protect your towniest read who is also likely to be shot. I recommend anyone with a killing role does not kill tonight, so we know all the kills are by mafia and we can analyse clues without fear of catching a stray vig.
I would recommend at least one role cop checks sinani, as he is the only claim we have. in the future role cops will have to check all the claims but at this stage just check scummy people.
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ouh are you upset? You played to well, so townie and somehow some idiot gets you busted.
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On November 28 2011 07:10 supersoft wrote:
ouh are you upset? You played to well, so townie and somehow some idiot gets you busted.
Upset? No, and busted? The last 2 games I have been called out for being red I flipped green. The games no one calls me out are the ones I am red. See the pattern? No one on TL aside from a few players can even see the difference of my play. If you are still unable to discern my alignment based on my posts then you need to sit back and work on your behavioural analysis. I do appreciate people trying to go after me but stop doing it because you scurred and do it because you have a real case.
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I am so sorry, that I was so ungrateful. I want to thank you a billion times for not mentioning my name.
You know what, actually I would have been surprised if you'd try to get me lynched or shot or whatever.
It's enough for you to undermine my credibility. That's exactly what scum does. They don't want to be responsible for a horrible mislynch.
My logic is simple. The sherrifspot was detemined by the scumteam, because the votes were so close.
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On November 28 2011 07:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 07:10 supersoft wrote:
ouh are you upset? You played to well, so townie and somehow some idiot gets you busted. Upset? No, and busted? The last 2 games I have been called out for being red I flipped green. The games no one calls me out are the ones I am red. See the pattern? No one on TL aside from a few players can even see the difference of my play. If you are still unable to discern my alignment based on my posts then you need to sit back and work on your behavioural analysis. I do appreciate people trying to go after me but stop doing it because you scurred and do it because you have a real case.
This is no defense at all. I want explanations.
Why am I a good day1lynch? Give me some material! Point out my scumminess!
Tell my why scum won't influence the sherrifdecision if the have the oportunity to do that?!
Do you think palmar is scum and they already had their votes on him? Naaaah
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Reading through the last 20 pages or so, I think that we should DL fast and DL hard; maybe even TL if we get sure pings on multiple scum at a later date, but DL for Day 2 is imperative. Town has a lot less to lose from it than scum will; as forcing scum to choose two people WILL provide us more information on them for later days; which is a side benefit that I feel has been overlooked.
As for the latest topic of that vet list being the power role target list, I encourage newbies to look into it but NOT FOLLOW BLINDLY. If they have a choice that they think is scummy and can make a case for it later on in there, Medics can choose not to protect them. DTs should as much as possible follow the BC/Palmar plan, while vigs should keep their shots for later, so town has more ammo to whittle down scummy reads which will have more basis by then without having to rely on DLs too hard.
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On November 28 2011 07:15 supersoft wrote:
I am so sorry, that I was so ungrateful. I want to thank you a billion times for not mentioning my name.
You know what, actually I would have been surprised if you'd try to get me lynched or shot or whatever.
It's enough for you to undermine my credibility. That's exactly what scum does. They don't want to be responsible for a horrible mislynch.
My logic is simple. The sherrifspot was detemined by the scumteam, because the votes were so close.
Determined by the scumteam? didnt mostly vets vote for me? that would imply that mostly vets are the scumteam, it would also imply that you know the scumteam.
in the course of 24 hours I gained votes. Roba was at one point insanely far ahead and had a huge amount of sheep voters. When people saw him flip flop they unvoted.
You need to work on your logic, it is fairly bad right now
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On November 28 2011 06:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
You said you want a fuckton of information and that missing two mafia is not imperative. they have 8 guarenteed kp and potentially more if they got lurker banes or vigi's. If we do not by now have enough analysis to determine two people then we have waited too long. Town is too divided and although the coming day might create an ever bigger push to off any of the largest vocal people anyone sitting back and pushing the conversation along or adding wood to the flames gets off scott free.
We need to seriously step back and get on track and at least act like a somewhat organized unit. There may be a few active mafia members talking right now but most of the people arguing are most likely townies.
Getting on track is precisely the reason why I want the double lynch. We don't have enough analysis by now because we don't have enough information. The double lynch would faciliate extra discussions, which is exactly what we need. It is riskier - but it is a reasonable risk, considering that we are getting information even if we fail at lynching. Will mafia attempt to disrupt the discussions and manipulate the votes? Of course they will, and this is what we need them to do.
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From everything I have read till now I have come to the conclusion that there are more benefits from NOT using DL so early in the game. Thus the veterans that claim otherwise get a scumnote in my book.
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EPT
