EPTYou guys completely missed it because you weren't using logic on day 3.
EDIT: Which is weird because it resulted in you winning. Yay derp
Team Melee Mini Mafia - Couples Therapy - Page 76
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
You guys completely missed it because you weren't using logic on day 3. EDIT: Which is weird because it resulted in you winning. Yay derp | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:02 Ace wrote: Same basis. Someone lies about a Roleclaim, the real role dies and is revealed - why are you even discussing anything? Lynch. There is nothing here that separates Town GM from Scum GM. He can play this card from both alignments, hence you can't even take his excuse of doing it to WIFOM the Mafia seriously. The Town would have lost but it was the correct play. Once again, bad Town play leading to a Town win  yeah but it was LYLO and you have to take bad play into account. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:02 Ace wrote: He can play this card from both alignments, hence you can't even take his excuse of doing it to WIFOM the Mafia seriously. The Town would have lost but it was the correct play. If it could have come from both alignments, you discard the information and base the lynch on the other 70 pages. Carrying out a policy lynch just for the sake of policy doesn't make sense. | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:05 kitaman27 wrote: If it could have come from both alignments, you discard the information and base the lynch on the other 70 pages. Carrying out a policy lynch just for the sake of policy doesn't make sense. It wouldn't have been a policy lynch. Also in the end you guys disregarded your own thoughts prior to the night that team S&G was scummy. When both team S&G and I said the same thing, and I pointed out how I would "never" shoot chaoser in such a situation, you should've realized that the only chance I would've shot chaoser is if we had a proper role check on night 1 on either chaoser or GM that confirmed one/the other as lying. That's a 1/3 chance we role checked one of them, way too low to be dealing with in a LYLO situation. So, since you got opposite parity checks, you should've insta-lynched GM. That didn't happen for whatever reason (I'm still not sure why I got lynched, actually) but whatever. EDIT: Also, in hindsight, there IS one thing I would change. I should've just shot team S&G and then insta-lynched GM with chaoser. It would've been suspicious that I switched from chaoser to GM the next morning but as long as chaoser voted I could've just voted GM and had Kurumi hammer. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:05 kitaman27 wrote: If it could have come from both alignments, you discard the information and base the lynch on the other 70 pages. Carrying out a policy lynch just for the sake of policy doesn't make sense. This isn't a policy lynch. It is a LYLO and someone has been found to be lying about a Role claim. You can't tell if he is Town or Scum because his alibi is acceptable for both alignments so you can't take it at face value. What you do know is that he claimed a role, and the actual REAL role died. What happened in the other 70 pages that can overturn this scenario? | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:07 wherebugsgo wrote: It wouldn't have been a policy lynch. Also in the end you guys disregarded your own thoughts prior to the night that team S&G was scummy. When both team S&G and I said the same thing, and I pointed out how I would "never" shoot chaoser in such a situation, you should've realized that the only chance I would've shot chaoser is if we had a proper role check on night 1 on either chaoser or GM that confirmed one/the other as lying. That's a 1/3 chance we role checked one of them, way too low to be dealing with in a LYLO situation. So, since you got opposite parity checks, you should've insta-lynched GM. That didn't happen for whatever reason (I'm still not sure why I got lynched, actually) but whatever. I think the problem arose when most of us listed team nipple and team we are marshal as our 2 scum. being forced to choose between the two really threw us off. | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:09 Ace wrote: This isn't a policy lynch. It is a LYLO and someone has been found to be lying about a Role claim. You can't tell if he is Town or Scum because his alibi is acceptable for both alignments so you can't take it at face value. What you do know is that he claimed a role, and the actual REAL role died. What happened in the other 70 pages that can overturn this scenario? Regardless, its a good thing we didnt kill him, lol | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:09 Ace wrote: This isn't a policy lynch. It is a LYLO and someone has been found to be lying about a Role claim. You can't tell if he is Town or Scum because his alibi is acceptable for both alignments so you can't take it at face value. What you do know is that he claimed a role, and the actual REAL role died. What happened in the other 70 pages that can overturn this scenario? so if you were us you would've lynched gm? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:09 redFF wrote: you got lynched because supersoft was obviously town after he exploded all over the thread. actually, none of what super did was pro-town lol. Even the vote was incredibly derp. Imagine if myself and GM were scum. He votes Kurumi, game is lost right there. yep. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:09 Ace wrote: This isn't a policy lynch. It is a LYLO and someone has been found to be lying about a Role claim. You can't tell if he is Town or Scum because his alibi is acceptable for both alignments so you can't take it at face value. What you do know is that he claimed a role, and the actual REAL role died. What happened in the other 70 pages that can overturn this scenario? Lynch all liars is a policy lynch. If the role claim isn't town or scum aligned, why should it lead to an instant GM lynch? To discourage town players from lying in future games? That's nice and all, but the goal is to win the current game. Considering GM had a partiy difference from a player which had zero worthwhile posts in a 70 page game and he had reasonable town tells on day one, you can't call town bad for not lynching him over the claim. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Yes and I've already stated so. On November 10 2011 09:13 kitaman27 wrote: Lynch all liars is a policy lynch. If the role claim isn't town or scum aligned, why should it lead to an instant GM lynch? To discourage town players from lying in future games? That's nice and all, but the goal is to win the current game. Considering GM had a partiy difference from a player which had zero worthwhile posts in a 70 page game and he had reasonable town tells on day one, you can't call town bad for not lynching him over the claim. If you noticed I'm not even taking LAL into account. It applies but I'm speaking strictly from the current state of the game. You're in LYLO. Someone claims medic. The real medic dies. He has an alibi that can't help you determine his alignment. Why are you taking anything he says as true at this point for sure? If the role claim isn't town or scum aligned, why should it lead to an instant GM lynch? - Because he told you he did it to protect the PC. Look back at my post where I analyzed what happens if a Scum GM makes this claim, this is the sticking point. You realize that a Scum GM wins the game for the Scum team if this claim goes through. Show me what GM did in these past 70 pages that helps cement his Town cred that could overturn this. This is the kind of shit play that has led people to stop playing here and you can't even recognize it. In a Town favored setup a PC claims Day 1, The Town mislynches twice, A town player lies about his role and yet you still think that was a good play going into LYLO. You're right, you know better than me. I'm not even going to discuss this anymore. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Lynch_All_Liars | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:15 wherebugsgo wrote: lol the mafia scum wiki even has a page dedicated to this. http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Lynch_All_Liars No point even directing TL players to simple shit like this. People have been terrible at this game doing the same stupid shit for YEARS and it's why none of them can even see the game in a big picture sense. At least now you probably realize why I didn't buy Sinani/redFF's claim in that game we were in together a while back. When you're playing at a high level and people do uncomfirmable and weird stuff, you lynch them because letting bad plays go uncontested leads to...people making bad plays again in future games. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
Yes lol. Good play results in loss of town. I'd rather have that then stupid play results in town win. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:23 Ace wrote: No point even directing TL players to simple shit like this. People have been terrible at this game doing the same stupid shit for YEARS and it's why none of them can even see the game in a big picture sense. At least now you probably realize why I didn't buy Sinani/redFF's claim in that game we were in together a while back. When you're playing at a high level and people do uncomfirmable and weird stuff, you lynch them because letting bad plays go uncontested leads to...people making bad plays again in future games. yeah, I saw your point during that game too, but ofc in that game your God role forced you to play like a village idiot so I was convinced for a while that the third mafia was still somewhere in the game. although I have to say, I was scared shitless whenever I got into an argument with sandro or chaoser. They had me pegged and all I could do was argue over and over to try and get them lynched. I'm still surprised I was able to get sandro lynched, tbh. He's incredibly good as town (and all the rest of you townies, shame on you for not rereading the thread when he died) EDIT: Although technically Ace, that misunderstanding stemmed from the fact that the OP was vague enough that red's claim wasn't a confirmed lie. HOWEVER, when Jackal claimed it WAS a confirmed lie. That game was excellent for showing the subtleties in the difference between a confirmed lie and something that, in a semi-closed setup, is really far fetched but the result of really stupid play. If anyone cares, this is the Resurrection Mafia Game hosted by iGrok a couple months ago. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
although I have to say, I was scared shitless whenever I got into an argument with sandro or chaoser. They had me pegged and all I could do was argue over and over to try and get them lynched. I'm still surprised I was able to get sandro lynched Hangover+trying to teach hyshes the game+poor attention to game = Fail lynch on my part =[ Bad showing this game from me lol. But I hope now hyshes knows how to play mafia a little bit better, he's just got newbie "I'm townie and scared to make a scumslip" syndrome. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:14 Ace wrote: You're in LYLO. Someone claims medic. The real medic dies. He has an alibi that can't help you determine his alignment. Why are you taking anything he says as true at this point for sure? We weren't . GM wasn't "confirmed" town or anything. We had a parity check on bugs vs super and chose to lynch bugs. GM's opinion wasn't taken as law. On November 10 2011 09:14 Ace wrote: if a Scum GM makes this claim, this is the sticking point. You realize that a Scum GM wins the game for the Scum team if this claim goes through. I disagree. Suppose GM is scum and claims medic. There are two possibilities: 1) There is a real medic, who is not shot night two. We get back our parity result between bugs and super and still lynch bugs. As the real medic is still alive, that allows us to pull of a second parity check, ending the game. 2) There is a real medic, who is shot night two. We get back our parity result between bugs and super and still lynch bugs. The game comes down to a 2v1 and you go from there. On November 10 2011 09:14 Ace wrote: This is the kind of shit play that has led people to stop playing here and you can't even recognize it. In a Town favored setup a PC claims Day 1, The Town mislynches twice, A town player lies about his role and yet you still think that was a good play going into LYLO. You're right, you know better than me. I'm not even going to discuss this anymore No need to become upset. I'm the first to admit that we played poorly on day one forcing a claim. I'm not trying to spin two mislynches as great town play. I agree this was certainly a town favorable setup. I think not lynching GM was a good play going into LYLO because he wasn't scum. That's all. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
You know that GM+nipple are opposite parities as well, so you might as well focus on them instead of myself+S&G. | ||
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