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On July 05 2011 22:47 syllogism wrote:
Another problem with your plan is that because it's not up to the majority to decide when someone gets nuked, it's impossible to tell when you should role claim. Once the nuke is in air, role claiming will cost us an anti-nuke and if done prematurely, you role claim for no reason.
This is a great point, I hadn't thought of that.
Like, this point is actually so good that I'm retracting everything I've said. Despite concerns of independence, allowing people to explain their roles is even more important if they're up for a lynch.
Fuck me...
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On July 05 2011 22:57 sandroba wrote:
What you can guarantee is that the majority of the players are pro-town and while you can't guarantee that the majority will vote for a mafia, you can guarantee that we are playing skill vs skill in an extremelly town favored field.
If this was true, town would win vanilla games majority of the time (they don't)
But as I said, it's a non issue. Syllo actually pointed out something that none of us had thought about, and with that information in mind I retract my opinions.
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I never trust claims, I just figure out what part of them I can use to my advantage
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On July 05 2011 23:09 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 23:00 Palmar wrote:On July 05 2011 22:57 sandroba wrote:
What you can guarantee is that the majority of the players are pro-town and while you can't guarantee that the majority will vote for a mafia, you can guarantee that we are playing skill vs skill in an extremelly town favored field.
If this was true, town would win vanilla games majority of the time (they don't) But as I said, it's a non issue. Syllo actually pointed out something that none of us had thought about, and with that information in mind I retract my opinions. Stop being silly and read what I posted. Not every game we have 2 lynches per night cycle. I also didn't claim town would win 100% of the time under those circumstances, I said it's extremelly town favored and town should win most of the time given the same skill.
you sure about that in a vanilla game? I'm pretty sure the scum can easily win even if there are double lynches and no night kills.
But let's drop it, your plan allows for roleclaims and mine does not, so let's roll with yours.
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reluctantly, yes.
I'm still thinking how we can introduce the possibility for defense without launching nukes, and yet keep people thinking outside of the dominant town council.
But yeah, until we have a better solution, I can go with it. As I said, it isn't terrible, it's even pretty good, just there is a flaw that I thought I could fix, but that fix apparently introduced an even bigger flaw in the fact that nukes can't be cancelled.
Despite this being the plan, I plead that everyone keeps thinking individually from the loudest town players.
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On July 05 2011 23:14 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 23:09 sandroba wrote:On July 05 2011 23:00 Palmar wrote:On July 05 2011 22:57 sandroba wrote:
What you can guarantee is that the majority of the players are pro-town and while you can't guarantee that the majority will vote for a mafia, you can guarantee that we are playing skill vs skill in an extremelly town favored field.
If this was true, town would win vanilla games majority of the time (they don't) But as I said, it's a non issue. Syllo actually pointed out something that none of us had thought about, and with that information in mind I retract my opinions. Stop being silly and read what I posted. Not every game we have 2 lynches per night cycle. I also didn't claim town would win 100% of the time under those circumstances, I said it's extremelly town favored and town should win most of the time given the same skill. I disagree. Town usually sucks at hitting scum, double lynch is situational, which is why we implemented the threshold system. Remember double lynch means LYLO comes much faster. We shouldn't be afraid to double lynch, nor should we shy away from not nuking if the situation doesn't call for it, there is no reason why we *have* to lynch if we don't have a decent target.
I agree with this btw, my entire argument was based around that sometimes town just doesn't seem to get the lynches done, so an alternative resource to pull from would be good.
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On July 05 2011 23:36 Ciryandor wrote:
It's quite nice to read as I catch up that everyone has thought it is a good idea to do a no-nuke unless absolutely necessary AND agreed upon by town as its policy, to stifle the chances of the Conspirator winning as the town tries to take out the Mafia. While right now, I do agree with Palmar's invocation that we should keep independent thought on our targets, at the end of the day, one has to show WHY it would be a good idea to nuke someone, then as the person who proposed it, take the shot themselves if they have a nuke at hand. Could someone update me on how long there is time left before the deadline?
I essentially withdrew my suggestion after syllo pointed out a flaw in it. If someone has a role that we for some reason want to keep alive (ie, can easily confirm, or we think it's a legit pro-town claim), we'd have to waste anti missiles to stop the missile heading his way.
With the vote, the person can claim before the nuke launches, so we can then decide whether or not we decide to send the kill in, saving us potentially both a pro-town nuke and a pro-town anti-nuke.
So yeah, at the moment the vote seems like the way to go.
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On July 06 2011 01:53 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 01:49 syllogism wrote:
You were also mafia and mafia benefited from people not following this plan. This game has a different player base and people failing to adhere to it in one game does not mean different people here will as well. If anything, we should learn from that example. this isn't unique to WaW1. Ace's game where everybody had a gun? Same outcome. I would be very surprised if it doesn't happen here. As of now I'm considering everybody a triggerhappy idiot. Prove me wrong.
I actually have far more belief in this playerbase.
As you can see on my crusade against the "only nuke when it's agreed upon" idea.
But yes, I really don't think we have to worry too much about random nuking in this game.
With that in mind, I'm going to go completely against what I usually suggest and just throw this out there:
Assumptions:
a) too many nukes and we lose
b) nukes become more accurate late-game
Conclusion:
Should we perhaps just... not nuke today? Sandroba's plan assumes the nuke is a double lynch, which is perfectly fine, but this is also a double lynch on a timer, one that ticks every time we nuke, and we can assume that every time a mafia is up against the wall he will nuke everything he can.
So, how about it, I say we just ignore the nukes, for now.
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On July 06 2011 02:32 youngminii wrote:
/roleplay
Commander GMarshal, I have an issue with your campaign for Operation Gunnerside. What is the point of destroying the Axis' nuclear weapons when we're supposed to be using them sparingly and only under our mutual consent? A nuclear strike by the Axis players will be suicide as they'll all be taken down immediately through non-nuclear means.
Your two propositions in this war have been contradictory. I have my eyes on you.
hi mr. conspirator
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if that wasn't clear, I'm leaning towards using operation Gunnerside atm.
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By the way, if we want to really fucking make sure no nukes go off today, I can launch a dud nuke (I don't have nukes), and so the only person that can be nuked is me. The mafia would be insane to retaliate 
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oh, and since I'm pretty sure this is the best plan as it fucks up both the mafia and the conspirator
##:Operation Gunnerside
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Thanks syllo, I stand corrected. but the other thing is kinda wtf.
But yeah doesn't matter really, as I misunderstood the OP
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With that said...
FIRE ZE MISSILES
##NUKE: GMarshal
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yeah, I misread the op, fired ze missiles anyway.
Also, did not know about the fact that duds remove extra lives... read that and was like "fuck..."
Let's just pray I'm not randomly taking a life of our vet.
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In my defense, there was nothing in the rules about the duds removing extra lives, it even says:
Players may continue to use missiles even if they do not have any nukes left but the missiles will not do any damage.
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I think Kurumi's scum.
He's being nice, that's a scumtell for him.
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On July 06 2011 07:57 Mig wrote:
Can we lynch palmar yet?
That's not very nice.
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I'm not sold on it.
Mataza really overthinks everything as far as I know, he creates ideas out of thin air with no real thought behind them at all.
But, the bandwagons... they're so tempting...
##Vote Mataza
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I'm much more worried about Kurumi than Sinani206.
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EPT
