EPTDon't make long posts that don't need to be so long. It just makes it more difficult to figure out what you're saying, and makes it seem like you're just posing fluff.
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia III - Page 5
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
Don't make long posts that don't need to be so long. It just makes it more difficult to figure out what you're saying, and makes it seem like you're just posing fluff. | ||
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OriginalName
Canada1140 Posts
On June 04 2011 23:40 Mataza wrote: Yes, it´s quite sensible really. With my normal start I was widely perceived as random and scummy, which is not good for my play whatsoever. I could of course say it´s only good for my town play, but that would be deceiving you. As Scum, lynching me is obviously what I don´t want. As Town, lynching me would be a mislynch and that´s also bad for town. Also Prplhz get a grip on yourself. Since this setup has no PMs, claims are just a bad play. I only advocated claims in SNM2 because we could deduce the exact setup. Here, we have to do it by plain old scumhunting. For example tomorrow we know the kill of night 1. Now for example if I would drop dead, it would make Palmar a suspect. Then again you can go by the fact that Palmar wouldn´t be that straightforward and look for someone who furthered an argument between us 2 without getting himself involved. Just like Giygas Vanilla vs Vanilla as working assumption, all in favor? So your trying to meta based off one game AND WIFOMing what will happen in 48 hours. What exactly are you trying to contribute here. Your getting defensive really fast, its the first 12 hours chill out and let things play out. Unless your scum in which you can just die. | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
Passive abilities, such as the veteran's extra life, are affected. so mafia don't even have to two-shot to kill the guy. Well, time to stir up some shit (if you guys never saw my formatting all indented names are hotlinked to post in question). Mataza [Page 4] Offering generic advices one of which he immediately withdraws in order to agree with Palmar. Normally roles list are first thing I pay attention to when thinking about which game to sign up, and considering this isn't even a flavour game with unique roles and huge player roster, statement "forgot we had Millers and Veterans possible" feels wrong. However, the thing truly scummy is (Mafia were active too, so you could say we just had 3 players less) I will not get up in any mad day1 witch hunt. Lynching Kavdragon day1 seems to be very popular... WTF? Did you just acknowledge there are no guarantee lurker are maf, yet you will go along with lurker bandwagon without scumhunting yourself? Note the third quote. This feels really pre-emptive to me. First, sentence is passive. He just states Kavdragon lynch is occuring instead of giving out his opinion ("I think/don't think lynching Kavdragon day1 is good idea"). Second, it feels rushed. Only three posts were made after Kavdragon announced he might be afk, with Palmar and youngminii talking about his lynch. I don't know about Palmar, but it was pretty obvious that youngminii was hardly serious? The discussion about Kavdragon hadn't really started and yet you sprinted ahead to state that town seriously considered lynching of Kavdragon. This overall reeks of scum paving the ground so when he votes for Kavdragon later on people will pay less attention to him. If this guy still refuse to engage in "mad day1 witch hunt", I know where my vote is going. prplhz [Page4] Refer to my first paragraph. If there is no more than one veteran claim, scum have good reason to spend KP & RB on the claimee to eliminate highly confirmed Townie. A.K.A. encouraging to cop and medic is terrible idea. It isn't your suggestion that concerns me though. It is your: 1) rambling narrative, 2) ambiguity, and 3) mediocre fingerpointing. Three classic scumtells in one? holy mackarels! ##Vote prplhz. You better start contributing or die. By mediocre fingerpointing I mean I don't know why Palmar would even propose it ... I don't know what to think about that but Palmar sure is starting this game out by trying to attract a lot of attention. Perhaps the argument is valid, and indeed I woudn't have given much thought about your last paragraph if you just straightout said "Palmar is suspicious". But "I don't know what to think about that but Palmar sure is starting this game out by trying to attract a lot of attention"?  stefftastiq [Page 4] @ace @kevdragon @palmar some internal joke about caprio I didnt get? why the lynch ? Was extremely critical of this as 'asking useless question in order to create facade of activity', but reading back over those posts I am slightly less critical. I think Palmar post had more to do with "That being said, I'm going to be really busy this weekend ... I won't be my usual super active day 1" rather than Ace. @Mataza Interesting that you now this game change strategies for entering the game - both of your last beginnings has been quite 'active' :D Null tell. @sinani I see you name me in your not posted anything yet thread - I posted just before the game started that I was going to sleep. And why bother pointing that out? After all you just make one good post and poof your name goes off the list. Unless if you were scum, in which case you at least have reason to be feel threatened about that list & try to justify it unnaturally. Also people, have more guts jesus christ. Enough of this "I shall so meekly, weakly make a suggestive sentence that may cause people to treat people X suspiciously without me coming off with active fos" bullshit. You too earn yummy scum points. Mataza [Page 4] Here, we have to do it by plain old scumhunting. Vanilla vs Vanilla as working assumption, all in favor? Yet you are against d1 witch hunt :facepalm: Say, if we all get along and resort to easy policy lynch, what are we going to use to scumhunt d2? Also Palmar, explain. ==PILLAR OF SCUMMINESS== Mutual first place: prplhz, Mataza Second place: stefftastiq Third place: What foolish mortal shall dareth approach here? OriginalName, youngminii, JeeJee, sinani206, unichan, Palmar, Kavdragon, Varpulis. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
OriginalName, read. I said EXAMPLE, because I wanted to explain how scumhunting works to someone who has no clue. I could have said Palmar dies and then I get suspicious. Seriously read plz. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 05 2011 01:11 Hesmyrr wrote: WTF? Did you just acknowledge there are no guarantee lurker are maf, yet you will go along with lurker bandwagon without scumhunting yourself? Do I really need to put [sarcasm] Lynching kavdragon seems to be popular....[/sarcasm] ? That´s exactly why I intended to not talk much day1. People create cases out of jokes, references to inside information and the fact that I am not good at wording english sentences. | ||
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
On June 05 2011 01:20 Mataza wrote: LOL. OriginalName, read. I said EXAMPLE, because I wanted to explain how scumhunting works to someone who has no clue. I could have said Palmar dies and then I get suspicious. Seriously read plz. yet your example made no sense whatsoever, and is almost entirely WifoM. That's not how scumhunting works. What hesmyrr is doing is how scumhunting works. Analyzing posting and content, not blindly looking at who died and who was talking about them. That can lead you to scum, but does not help identify them. The argument "he died so she is suspicious" is terrible. ##vote mataza step it up. | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
Also you are misreading my quotes and argument. (Mafia were active too, so you could say we just had 3 players less) and I will not get up in any mad day1 witch hunt. goes with my first paragraph you talked about. Lynching Kavdragon day1 seems to be very popular... have more to do with the rest, though I can understand it could be interpreted otherwise either. How otherwise shall I scumhunt? I'm not asking you to craft eloquent sentence or anything (or everyone else for that matter). I am just stating people to make clear accusations. In fact, I'm willing to scratch all of my attacks above if you and other two become proactive scum hunters, because after all, net behaviour of the player can be just as telling as the single critical scum tell. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
I said X died and that would make y suspicous because they argued earlier. Then you can examine who influenced that argument. Fine, lynch me. Palmar brought nothing forward and I intended to wait for him to bring a reason up, before I put my FoS on him for that. I am not here to explain to people what I wrote, because they are unable to read beyond what they want to find. Also if you want to have clueless people in the game, not my problem. | ||
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unichan
United States4223 Posts
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
How did you go from ... On June 04 2011 12:27 Varpulis wrote: He's saying that we'd be better off lynching a scummy player and then looking at who defended/pushed for his lynch depending on his flip than we'd be if we just offed a lurker. At this point, I'm tending to agree. I'm currently planning on putting some pressure on the lurkers early on, then focusing on who's actually scummy when there's more to analyze. ... that to bandwagoning Mataza with Palmar? There are plenty of lurkers around who have posted absolutely nothing of value (sinani206 who only has lists and bad math, stefftastiq who has one useless post, youngminii) yet you're going at Mataza who is somewhat of an easy target due to his propensity to "put a foot in his mouth" as one of our great hosts GMarshal so aptly said it in PTP. @Palmar I'm gonna echo Hesmyrr's request: explain ... what ton of information we get from vet claiming? It's a bad plan especially when roleblockers can block vet extra life, I can't possibly see what town would gain from vet-claim. | ||
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OriginalName
Canada1140 Posts
On June 05 2011 02:58 prplhz wrote: @Palmar I'm gonna echo Hesmyrr's request: explain ... what ton of information we get from vet claiming? It's a bad plan especially when roleblockers can block vet extra life, I can't possibly see what town would gain from vet-claim. I think I can answer this instead of Palmer. 1. We get none, we have a free target for scum to avoid ASSUMING WE HAVE A VET. 2. Said "confirmed" townie could be scum trying to control us and avoid his lynch. We also could have no vet making counterclaiming irrelevant furthering his position. 3. It creates more Wifom (see 2) 4. Claiming in a closed setup unless about to be lynched is a pointless undertaking. We have no way of confirmed outside of death and a sane DT who could also be fakeclaiming. ------ On June 05 2011 01:20 Mataza wrote: LOL. OriginalName, read. I said EXAMPLE, because I wanted to explain how scumhunting works to someone who has no clue. I could have said Palmar dies and then I get suspicious. Seriously read plz. You mad bro? | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
I'd think it's very unscummy that he declared so strongly about not joining any witch hunts. If I were mafia, I'd leave that option available just in case I could get an easy bandwagon. my2c I'm still for an inactive vote, but I have a suspicious finger towards palmar a little. I want to see his response to the pressure being put on him. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
As for the vet claiming, I'm all for it if the entire town can get behind it. If the vet is a liar, I think we'll figure it out eventually as the days go on. If the vet dies first night because of a roleblock + hit, then we'll know that there is a roleblocker in the game. I don't see the downsides outweighing the advantages to this. | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
Already some serious mudslinging going on, mataza you don't need to be so defensive and martyring yourself, I hate it when people do that. It makes analysis post deaths a lot more difficult if someone attacks person A, and instead of pointing out the flaws in their attack, A just goes "fine lynch me noob, see what i flip". Point out the flaws in Varp's attack instead. His whole attack is based on your shitty hypothetical wifom argument and is just a way to say "i dont like this type of argument". Correct me if I'm wrong varp  Also, why the hell would someone claim vet? Dumbest thing I've ever read. Claim you're vet if you've lost one life, fine. Not right up front. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
On June 05 2011 03:31 JeeJee wrote: G'mornin chaps Already some serious mudslinging going on, mataza you don't need to be so defensive and martyring yourself, I hate it when people do that. It makes analysis post deaths a lot more difficult if someone attacks person A, and instead of pointing out the flaws in their attack, A just goes "fine lynch me noob, see what i flip". Point out the flaws in Varp's attack instead. His whole attack is based on your shitty hypothetical wifom argument and is just a way to say "i dont like this type of argument". Correct me if I'm wrong varp Also, why the hell would someone claim vet? Dumbest thing I've ever read. Claim you're vet if you've lost one life, fine. Not right up front. Vets are probably the strongest role in that they can fill in the role as town leader/coordinator. If the mafia want to kill him, they have to use 2KP or roleblock+hit (which not only reveals that there is a roleblocker, it uses both at once). Since the vet has a lower priority for mafia night killing, as long as the town are always cautious, the vet can act as the town pillar. | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
In fact, I much prefer seeing how people react to being put up as a candidate Youngminii, you don't see the downsides outweighing advantages of vet claim d1? ok, what are the advantages? | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
Let's back up a moment. 2 situations: -vet claim, mafia ignores -vet claim, mafia rb+kill 2 is in fact a bad situation because, fine, we know there's a rb in the game. However, without the vet claim, if mafia decides to roleblock someone, we'd know anyway (and chances are, they would have wasted their roleblock instead of using it well). Because let's face it, if you are roleblocked, you better be telling us this asap. 1 isn't even a good situation either, because mafia won't be potentially wasting a hit on a vet. if they hit a vet unexpectedly, the vet can claim then (by "i was hit last night", not necessarily by anything specific). At that point, that person is basically a confirmed townie, and mafia will have to think about whether they should hit them again since there may be a doc on them now. And now we have your 'pillar' and we have a day's advantage again, i don't see the point. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
Disadvantage: None really. It's the best way to utilise the vet role, and the only flaw that there could be is if someone lied about it, but the lie should become obvious eventually. But if you don't want to then I'm not going to argue, I think there's plenty of other/better discussion that could be happening instead of us arguing over something that you won't agree to. Better to have the palmar/mataza stuff going if this just isn't going to happen. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
If someone claims veteran he will not be "confirmed" he will be confirmed. Also your "counterclaim" makes no sense, why can't there be two veterans? We don't know the setup. Your analysis of Palmar's plan is not very good. Also ... FoS on youngminii. All he's done this game is claim noob, joke around, and then this bout of activity when I pointed out that he was lurking. His recent activity hasn't been useful either, he's trying to defend Mataza and then arguing with whoever is around about Palmar's plan, which is a bad plan. I don't see how this will get us anywhere and seems like he is just posting for the sake of posting. | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
On June 05 2011 02:58 prplhz wrote: I'm gonna echo Hesmyrr's request: explain ... what ton of information we get from vet claiming? It's a bad plan especially when roleblockers can block vet extra life, I can't possibly see what town would gain from vet-claim. I was talking more about why he voted for Mataza. At least it isn't something someone else can answer for him. Possible buddying and misdirection, though first half of his post is actually pretty good. On June 05 2011 03:25 youngminii wrote: I'd love to post more, but the only thing I can think of right now that's relevant to discussion is that the mataza lynch is a little hasty ... I'd think it's very unscummy that he declared so strongly about not joining any witch hunts. If I were mafia, I'd leave that option available just in case I could get an easy bandwagon. 12 players, and 7 people required to lynch. I don't particularly sense that the town is particularly boiling for the murder of Mataza yet, let alone anyone.  What particularly gave you such impression?Also WIFOM. I might as well argue right now that all mafia are active, and Mataza stated he won't deviate from the lurker lynch in order to create valid reasoning against team-kill. I'm bad with explanation, so I'll give you example: All mafia agree to be active. Mafia A states he will only vote for lurkers and does so. Mafia A therefore does not have to attack nor vote his active team-mates. When people later criticize him for it, Mafia A can protect his behaviour by stating he followed his principles. See? It's all useless. You were in TL Mafia for a while so you really should know this. I'll have to treat your post with minor suspicion as you might be trying to gain some sort of town rep. Also I'm still for an inactive vote, but I have a suspicious finger towards palmar a little. I want to see his response to the pressure being put on him. No vote, not even an explanation why you are suspicious/putting pressure so palmar can respond in some way? That's a pretty weaksauce pressure. | ||
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