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Dude, you are behaving a lot like last game.
First of all, there is not much of kitatrain right now.
Secondly, the "I won´t change unless you bring a solid defense" is what you did as mafia, too. Problem is, you CANNOT have a solid defense in a mafia game. Doubt is the normal state towards everyone. You might as well ask for the holy grail before the crusade even begun.
And I don´t exactly buy that more fistpounds are beneficial without any strict numbers behind it. Carrying over to the next day I could understand. Increments tied to certain numbers I could understand.
But every single fistpound being beneficial is just weird. It has to be either percentual increments or full numbers of people then.
And full numbers of people is what I greatly fear.
Last game, you broke this bros heart. This time it ain´t gonna be fixed with a fistpound and smile. Imma never trust you again.
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On May 31 2011 20:29 Kurumi wrote:Also Jackar,are You on meth,man? Why tunneling chaos13 so hard?
Lol. I'm not tunneling Chaos. I just wanted everybody to be aware that the two people he fosfed both appear to possess roles scum would not want to have in the game.
When I tunnel somebody you and everybody else will know it.
And thanks Node. I didn't see the post from Decon regarding scum kp.
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On May 31 2011 15:50 DropBear wrote:KITAMAN27 He has been stomping on anyone who tries to get discussion going, starting with BC. Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 05:33 kitaman27 wrote:On May 31 2011 05:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Gm isn't so bad as to instant rush to defend his mafia pal this fast into a game. At least, I would hope not. But BC is bad enough to instant rush to defend his mafia pal GM. What is the point of this exactly? You never brought this up again. This is just spreading doubt for the sake of it. Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 08:08 kitaman27 wrote:On May 31 2011 07:36 kitaman27 wrote:
This thread is already way too spammy.
We don't need 5 pages discussing Amber's dog noises.
We don't need any further discussion of this "zodiac list" which allows people to post without contributing.
k thx. Next person that posts a list gets lynched. Why? Posting lists gives a discussion point. It is much much more valuable than talking about Amber's caninity. Don't you want information to be out there? It's got everyone talking about alignments instead of roles. Do you have a problem with BC or something? The list is a starting point before scumhunting. It's much better than your starting point of a random vote. Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 10:22 kitaman27 wrote:On May 31 2011 09:37 hiro protagonist wrote:
@kitaman: why do you suspect Vamp? meh mostly a random vote to get things started. Spammy, apologetic, and posting fluff. He tells town we should be looking elsewhere, without providing suspicions of his own. On an unrelated note, town should keep in mind that mafia has additional information than they normally do in this set-up since they know their own roles and the roles they have created. So... you're voting without a reason. And no shit Mafia has extra information. Thank you Captain Obvious. Kita has done nothing to help town. He is actively avoiding discussion and is jumping on someone who was active at the start of the game. He is Mafia and should be lynched.
I don't really find much wrong with kita's play so far, he just has to go into more detail about his reasons. BC posted a list, and if you want to add someone to it or take someone off, make one post explaining why. Everyone doesn't need a list, I would stand by that.
Those were the very reasons I voted varpulis, I see nothing wrong with that day 1. He may be trying to direct the discussion elsewhere, which is beneficial for him if he's mafia, but it isn't anti-town. He's town, and I don't like how quickly his wagon seems to be building.
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Bum,You're still defending Your mafia bud kitaman? Man,You have slipped so fast.
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I kind of got the same idea - Palmars approach to the game is very similar to how he played last game - which could of course be because Palmar is Palmar.
He could also have hatched another 'masterplan' early by trying to mislead us with fistpounds - and like last game targeting someone and being pretty unwilling to change (until the end of the game) ;-p
But I think this is way to thin to be really suspicious about someone - but I'm atleast even more suspicious to everyone than I used to be 
I also see the importance to separate this game from earlier games - cause ofcourse the alignments wouldnt be the same etc - just funny that Mataza actually wrote something of the same I thought this game 
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On May 31 2011 21:21 Mataza wrote:
Dude, you are behaving a lot like last game.
First of all, there is not much of kitatrain right now.
Secondly, the "I won´t change unless you bring a solid defense" is what you did as mafia, too. Problem is, you CANNOT have a solid defense in a mafia game. Doubt is the normal state towards everyone. You might as well ask for the holy grail before the crusade even begun.
And I don´t exactly buy that more fistpounds are beneficial without any strict numbers behind it. Carrying over to the next day I could understand. Increments tied to certain numbers I could understand.
But every single fistpound being beneficial is just weird. It has to be either percentual increments or full numbers of people then.
And full numbers of people is what I greatly fear.
Last game, you broke this bros heart. This time it ain´t gonna be fixed with a fistpound and smile. Imma never trust you again.
Also I want to note, just because someone doesn't have a lot of votes on them at the time, doesn't mean it isn't a wagon. It's a kinda noobie mafia play to agree with how someone is acting scummy, and not make any move in the voting thread. Most notably:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 31 2011 12:27 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I come back from work to see a derailed thread talking about pretty well nothing. I am so glad to see town is so easily led astray by nonsense.
To much time has been taken up by this nonsense about ambers role. If he is a dt style dog, he will merely sniff and growl at someone tomorrow if they are red, or sniff and wiggle his tail if they are town.
If he is a med dog he can hop around them and bark if he made a save and hop around and whimper if he didnt. If he is a vig style dog, he bites the dead body in thread and barks.
If he is another role he can figure out an appropriate action to do but there, ambers role dealt with. He can easily communicate agreement or discontent or the like easily enough in thread.
As for people posting base lists without any reasoning to them, Hi for fake activity. Anyone on the zodiac list should be there for a reason. Also no one is also mentioning a medic list with reasons behind it. huge FoS on that.
FoS on kita for FoSing people and trying to shut down talking without contributing seriously then begins to derail thread talking about mason role (which we don't know if exists in a good/serious way as the claimed one atm seems to suck). He also begins discussing the information mafia has on roles. Seriously shitty behaviour.
Once i am better caught up I shall post more comprehensive thoughts. On May 31 2011 17:21 Mataza wrote:
I have been sleeping over this and it´s bugging me.
So here´s the thing:
There are things we are not expecting(yes obvious).
We have 33 people and 33 roles. Yet Mafia have only 1 Kill per night.
A reasonable amount of people for scumteam would be somewhere around 5-9. This is not slightly off balance, this is "WTF is this shit?".
Looking at these numbers, I would refuse to play the mafia side, because of pointlessness.
So my take is that there is a huge area we don´t know shit about.
I could think of several options, but the point is, this is not helpful.
I just mean to say we shouldn´t be surprised to either
1) see people killing without actually having a killing role.
2) see that mafia team has a strong density of killing roles.
3) find out that we have a rather high number of neutrals(like upwards of 4)
Now this info alone is useless. However it would become more useful if we had an idea about the number of existing killing roles.
Come the next day I would suggest claiming whether or not one assigned a misinformation or killing role. Because killing and misinformation are the antitown traits we should get a grip on them.
In another instance, I reread kitaman27, chaos13, meapak, varpulis and cthsazsa.
None of them scream red to me after rereading.
Varpulis has been a bit erratic since before the game.
cthsazsa has been extremely short in posting. Nothing much to work with, other than added unusefulness.
chaos13 seems rather legit. Other than asking why Karshe paid attention to his list, talking about the only person on the list he knows, there has been nothing odd.
Meapak was maybe a bad call by me to check in the first place. Without any meta knowledge I´d say he looks 100% ok. Then again, people often use past games to judge veterans and I didn´t.
Kitaman27 on the other hand is experienced and looks quite erratic. Rather short and unhelpful, while also very quick to vote. Unless some vets tell me that is normal, this is going down as scummy in my book.
His only longer post is about Mason roles in general. Everything else is short and choppy.
Barring an extraordinary defense, Kitaman27 is guilty in my eyes.
On May 31 2011 20:12 prplhz wrote:I'm gonna agree with the FoS on kitaman27. One of his first post is this: + Show Spoiler +On May 31 2011 05:06 kitaman27 wrote:
Agreed.
I'm green with envy for your scum hunting skills. .. and I honestly do not know what to read into that. First time I read it I didn't even notice but I think it's a weird thing to say. The following posts are all without content, telling people to stop talking about dog+list. Then he just made his biggest contribution yet, in defense of himself. I consider this scummy.
Gee, three people thinking someone is scum with no votes in the thread. I can't really say much about BC, he's just giving an FoS, and probably has other people in mind. Hard to say, but it's funny that after he says that, mataza and prplhz take advantage of that. And it doesn't matter what kita's alignment is when analyzing you, since you never put your vote on him! I'll take note of this, thank you for your participation
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I want to ask the town about voting early - its more than 24 hours until the voting ends - and a fair amount of people have already voted - since I've only got experience from one game earlier but there a lot of the players voted early - and then proceeded by changing their votes two or three times before the voting ends - I see the point of putting pressure on players to be active and / or make them cry for help.
But if the players voting early are all town - wouldnt the scum then see the voting patterns and could easely lynch the players they want AND even spread out their votes so they wont be too suspicious?
I see how this post might not have anything to do with whos scum and whos not - but I really want to hear a few opinions about pros/cons about voting early - because I can see how it really can call upon bandwagons and then the first players who "started the bandwagon" easly could change their votes to do someone else - ye, paranoiatalk 
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No problem. I don´t vote yet, because I don´t intend to vote more than once.
I looked into 5 people who gave me a strange gut feeling, and only kitaman actually kept giving me that after rereading.
Its a pretty weak case, and I consider his role and his meta behaviour to be possible explanations. I can´t truly judge his meta behaviour, but his responses are unsatisfactory so far.
That´s all there is to it from my side.
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On May 31 2011 21:37 stefftastiq wrote:I want to ask the town about voting early - its more than 24 hours until the voting ends - and a fair amount of people have already voted - since I've only got experience from one game earlier but there a lot of the players voted early - and then proceeded by changing their votes two or three times before the voting ends - I see the point of putting pressure on players to be active and / or make them cry for help. But if the players voting early are all town - wouldnt the scum then see the voting patterns and could easely lynch the players they want AND even spread out their votes so they wont be too suspicious? I see how this post might not have anything to do with whos scum and whos not - but I really want to hear a few opinions about pros/cons about voting early - because I can see how it really can call upon bandwagons and then the first players who "started the bandwagon" easly could change their votes to do someone else - ye, paranoiatalk
A fair question. Pressuring day 1 is pretty important, it forces discussion, which is always good for town, never good for mafia. Now as you say that mafia look at voting patterns, that is true and they will abuse it by distributing votes, but as they recognize voting patterns, so can we. End day voting is a tricky business, and can really help in giving us something to work with. As a rule of thumb, it's generally frowned upon to switch your votes at the end of the day as town. It gives unnecessary suspicion, if that person did not have a really good reason for doing so.
@kurumi whatever you say boy wonder, but kita isn't the scummiest person. That would be mr slink-away tnkted
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I don't feel that either varpulis or kitaman27 are particularly scummy. I think they have definitely made some bad moves as town, but I don't believe they are scum either. Between the two of them, varpulis is more likely to be scum. tnkted is confusing, but that is probably just something to do with his role. How else could he get away with voting someone who isn't actually in the game?
On May 31 2011 10:40 tnkted wrote:#vote coagulation
???
The person I would be most comfortable voting for right now is Tackster, because of his lurking and apparent reluctance to contribute. I'm getting a really bad feeling about him, and it's backed up by his posting.
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GMarshal, please grace us with your thoughts on varpulis and kitaman27. Do you think they are both scum, just one of them, or none? Why? Between the two, who appears to be more scummy, and why?
While you're at it, why don't you tell me why you have consistently harassed people to start contributing without doing so yourself? Also why you mentioned a few times why zodiac lists and the type were useless without reasoning behind the names when you haven't actually given your own thoughts on anyone at all so far.
This is your biggest piece of analysis so far:
On May 31 2011 10:58 GMarshal wrote:
##Vote: Torte de Lini for someone who is supposed to be super active the only thing he has done is play the noob card. Step up your game man.
Who do you think looks scummiest right now and why?
Your posting stance is noncommittal. Your vote commits a lot. What's going on here?
The first few questions I asked on varpulis and kita will be a perfect opportunity to start contributing some more btw. Don't forget to answer them.
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On May 31 2011 21:44 Mataza wrote:
No problem. I don´t vote yet, because I don´t intend to vote more than once.
I looked into 5 people who gave me a strange gut feeling, and only kitaman actually kept giving me that after rereading.
Its a pretty weak case, and I consider his role and his meta behaviour to be possible explanations. I can´t truly judge his meta behaviour, but his responses are unsatisfactory so far.
That´s all there is to it from my side.
Why? Voting is a tool. It serves more than one purpose.
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Well Jackal, because an opinion is a fickle thing.
Every little thing you read influences it. It may change several times a day.
A vote, on the other hand, is a big commitment to me. It is my sign of dedication towards my opinion. It won´t move that easily, and therefore placing my vote should have a greater impact.
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United States22154 Posts
On May 31 2011 22:19 chaos13 wrote:GMarshal, please grace us with your thoughts on varpulis and kitaman27. Do you think they are both scum, just one of them, or none? Why? Between the two, who appears to be more scummy, and why? While you're at it, why don't you tell me why you have consistently harassed people to start contributing without doing so yourself? Also why you mentioned a few times why zodiac lists and the type were useless without reasoning behind the names when you haven't actually given your own thoughts on anyone at all so far. This is your biggest piece of analysis so far: Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 10:58 GMarshal wrote:
##Vote: Torte de Lini for someone who is supposed to be super active the only thing he has done is play the noob card. Step up your game man.
Who do you think looks scummiest right now and why? Your posting stance is noncommittal. Your vote commits a lot. What's going on here? The first few questions I asked on varpulis and kita will be a perfect opportunity to start contributing some more btw. Don't forget to answer them.
I wake up and this is the first thing I see, not bad.
I haven't posted a zodiac list because I don't have enough to go on yet. I'm not going to write a list of people I perceive as vets, that would be hypocritical of me, I already pointed out that this serves no purpose, its not a bad idea to have three or four lists to discuss but having everyone post a list is a waste of our time. I have been contributing, what I haven't been doing is throwing around useless FoS without real support, I've been asking questions in an attempt to foster discussion. When I ask a question I myself cannot answer it, as it allows the person being asked the question to say "oh yeah, I agree with what you said earlier".
My vote on torte is a pressure vote. I'm getting him to contribute by threatening to kill him, I do it pretty much every game. Its the only reliable method of luring out lurkers.
You want me to commit between Varp and kita? Varp isn't his confident self, but I hesitate to make any reads based on meta, as peoples playstyles change, so until he does something that is actually scummy. kita is setting off every alarm in my head, but I'm waiting to see how he reacts to being called out before doing anything. Between the two I would rather lynch kita over varp at the moment, simply based on the amount of attempted contribution.
While we are discussing scumspects, I want to point out that Barundar has yet to do anything really, I am waiting for him to contribute.
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On May 31 2011 22:28 Mataza wrote:
Well Jackal, because an opinion is a fickle thing.
Every little thing you read influences it. It may change several times a day.
A vote, on the other hand, is a big commitment to me. It is my sign of dedication towards my opinion. It won´t move that easily, and therefore placing my vote should have a greater impact.
You're scared that someone will call You as wishy-washy person? So safe,so scummish.
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Voting Torte de Lini aswell. He's yet to contribute despite being asked to several times, let's put some more pressure on him.
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United States22154 Posts
Hey, has anyone noticed that tnkted's vote on coag is actually counted in the vote thread?
Does no one else find that strange?
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On May 31 2011 22:40 GMarshal wrote:
Hey, has anyone noticed that tnkted's vote on coag is actually counted in the vote thread?
Does no one else find that strange?
I told you there are smurfs afoot! I can smell them from a galaxy away
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On May 31 2011 22:42 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 22:40 GMarshal wrote:
Hey, has anyone noticed that tnkted's vote on coag is actually counted in the vote thread?
Does no one else find that strange? I told you there are smurfs afoot! I can smell them from a galaxy away
No,I do smell things from a galaxy away.
Well,I'd go for that "I just registered,played on other forums" etc guy.
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On May 31 2011 22:40 GMarshal wrote:
Hey, has anyone noticed that tnkted's vote on coag is actually counted in the vote thread?
Does no one else find that strange?
I wonder what would happen if we lynched him? Coag I mean.
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EPT
