I like these mechanics
Sleeper Cell Mafia
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GMarshal
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I like these mechanics | ||
GMarshal
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Should be fun | ||
GMarshal
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GMarshal
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On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too. This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. Bread-crumbing already huh? LYNCH HIM! Too bad I noticed "I got a strange role" is a five word phrase! trying to communicate with your buddies... ##Vote: tnkted | ||
GMarshal
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On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote: Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet. I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange. Here: WEIRD ROLE, DUDES Right, scum, keep on talking (it was an obvious joke, why are you so nervous... have something to hide?) also as far as your role goes I think I know what it is, you see I'm a Telepath and I got to see your role you are Welcome to Sleeper Cell Mafia you are The Mystic Avenger you live only to quench your thirst of vengeance. You will kill those bastards that murdered your family, see if you wont! You win when the serial killer and the Mass Murderer are dead. Thankfully you have some equipment to help you. 1.) Astral tables: Quite easy to use all you do is submit a number equal to the leading coefficient of the sum of all vowels used in all of your posts, ever, and then submit this number to the mod and three outside sources, if you figured it out right you will be told the astral signs of all players in the game, you know that the SK and MM are both sagitarius. 2.) Avenging Blade- its a sword of pure flame, you use it to smite the enemy, at any point you may type ##Smite Player in the thread and the player will be killed, if you hit an innocent (someone who has not killed anyone) the blade kills you as well. 3.) True Faith- If you die you may PM the mod a 100 word or less prayer. it will be edited into the OP as "divine revelation". Also you are immune to one night kill or one lynch, whichever comes first. | ||
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/applause | ||
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On April 25 2011 07:52 tnkted wrote: ...fuck ##smite GMarshal ##Mind Shield Mr.WIggles see due to a loophole in the wording of the mind shield portion of my PM, if I protect *anyone* I cannot be killed either ^_^ | ||
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On April 25 2011 10:32 Jackal58 wrote: I am going to be here until shortly after the day post guys. I get up before 5 for work so I gotta get some sleep. I just don't want to wake up to screams of "lurker" I don't lurk. I sleep. Sleep is for weak people! Healthy, sane, well rested weak people, but weak people nonetheless! | ||
GMarshal
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As I see it in this setup many traditional mafia "tells" dont apply as the mafia (except for the leader) have the same information as the town does, hell they don't even know who is going to die before they do. This means that we have to look for tells based not on more knowledge, but on pure behavior. I know this is a small distinction but I think its important enough to point out. As far as the blue roles we know we have at least one of vigi's should obviously shoot lurkers or people they are sure are scum, while our dts need push to lynch any red results they get, and I suggest any "not enough data" results they get, as the mafia leader hides behind those. Yeah, I don't know what else to say. Onto making people post ##Vote:Sandroba I noticed you in the Surprisingly Normal. Do you have any thoughts on the setup? | ||
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I also suggest that if multiple people quote a post others of us do the same, as that might be a method of identification as well. Also I agree we need to keep up the posting activity, as quality posts are important to foster discussion. | ||
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On April 25 2011 21:41 sandroba wrote: I think this discussion about breadcrumbs is not productive at all, specially if you reveal your strategy before you put it in practice. Doing what you are suggesting is going to make scumhunting more difficult imo. Also I don't think that's the way mafia is going to identify each other, as there are several other more obvious ways I can think of. As I see it there are only a few basic ways for the mafia to communicate. 1.) The GF reveals individualy who each member is to another member with a message such as "the pardoner is mafia" this is going to take forever and is not an optimal use of messaging 2.) The GF orchestrates something like "everyone change their signature to 'death and destruction' (which is why I am keeping track of peoples signatures) it is going to be an obvious reveal if so 3.) the GF organizes no obvious breadcrumbing something like "include three typos per post" or "use the word spectral" by implementing my strategy we stomp on any such plan. There might be work arounds but I have to wonder if the GF can figure it out and inform the rest of the team in only five word messages. I find it curious that you oppose this plan, whats so bad about it sand? | ||
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On April 25 2011 21:57 Vain wrote: Well for instance the cell leader could hint them who is who. It is stated in the first post that the cell leader is allowed to breadcrumb. He can also send that pm at dusk and down so in theory he could give some direction to who to vote for to lynch at dawn and also who to hit at dusk. He isn't allowed to use player names, period, so thats going to be difficult to say the least. Yes the cell leader can hint at who is who but he has five words or 20 characters to do it in, its going to be a bitch to inform 1/3 of the players in this game about each others identity without being able to send out names. Assume it takes him one PM to reveal one player ,which makes sense as he can't just say it so he'd have to say something like "DT in Surprisingly Normal Mafia" to reveal a player assuming 5 members that means its going to take him 2 and a half days to inform everyone, (this is assuming any PMs are sent out to the whole group, if they are sent to individuals its even harder). If they want to be efficient they have to find a way to post it in the thread, and thats what this plan sets out to hinder. | ||
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I understand if you don't want to reveal it, but if it requires posting in the thread we can find it, spoof it, or otherwise sabotage it. | ||
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Now, I'm assuming one person is receiving the message. 1.) Ace- "I'm the pardoner from XXXVIII": with a veteran player like Ace I would be trying to get as much information to him as possible, information is power and even with only a little bit of it I'm sure he could get stuff done 2.) Mr. Wiggles - " mafia will post 'serial killer' " or some other breadcrumb that would allow me to reveal myself to him and then the rest of the team. I might think of a more clever breadcrumb than that, and if it were clever enough I might use it for ace instead. 3.) why- same as for wiggles, as a veteran player both of them are people I could count on to work it into their regular posts without worrying too much about them messing up. | ||
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On April 25 2011 22:38 Impervious wrote: Guys, this talk about breadcrumbing is nice and all, but I don't see it going much further at the moment. We should probably wait a while before bringing this up, so we can catch a slip up. Especially if they are trying to hide their posting in the thread. I think we should talk about the pros and cons of of double-checking anyone who gets the result of "insufficient analysis", to make it easier on the DT. The pros of double checking are that you are more sure of the result. The cons are that you could be checking someone else instead, therefore checking more people. I really think the cons outweigh the pros in this case. Thoughts? I think the DT should just push for a lynch on the target 75% chance of having the cell leader is worth the gamble of accidentally getting a town player lynched, IMO. Sure it might suck for the town player getting the shit end of the stick, but hey, we die for the greater glory and all that. I also think this is usless discussion that allows scum to blend in, I'm sure the mafia is content to debate this to death, rather than worrying about us sabotaging their cutesy plans. Still I want to see what you guys awnser to Ace's question | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote: Mr.Wiggles do you know why I'm voting for you Mr.Wiggles? | ||
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On April 26 2011 00:11 tnkted wrote: OFFTOPIC: LOL. dude, i was searching for that post in insane 2 and i couldn't find it, you don't happen to remember what page it was on do you? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=200702¤tpage=144#2877 this? /end offtopic | ||
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On April 26 2011 00:29 Rean wrote: the fuck is this shit. youre discussing how the gf can crumb in his messages WHEN THATS USELESS TO TOWN. seriously, we dont give a fuck how they crumb because we wont find out about it anyway if mafia is even half-decent. and now you're even making cutesy lists on who you would message if you were the GF? STOP BEING USELESS. seriously, you people are randomly discussing things that don't get us anywhere. fos list so far: ace/tnkted/more idiots filling the thread with bullshit lists So, what would you like us to talk about then? Should we make an in depth discussion of the merits of lynching inactives? Or discuss what our blues should be doing? Of course we give a fuck of how mafia crumbs, we might be able to catch them at it! But still, what do you propose we do to STOP BEING USELESS? your FoS is reduced to "people are discussing things, I won't offer an alternative but get pissed at them for *talking* how *dare* they start discussing things!" So Rean, if you had the lynch right now who would you kill and why? | ||
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On April 26 2011 00:43 Ace wrote: Good job Rean, contribute more please. You're path to the lynch wagon won't take long with shit posts like that. Post your lists or at least give some damn good reasons why this is useless. Interestingly enough do you mind if I ask you a question? Why are these lists useful? I'd like to hear what reasoning went behind asking us to post these. | ||
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On April 26 2011 02:13 Zorkmid wrote: Ok, read through the whole thread, no idea what list it is that I have to post... Imagine for a second you are the cell leader, who would you message and what would you tell them in that message? Pick 3 people ( assume in this imaginary world that anyone you choose to message is automatically a member of the mafia) . I think I can guess as to why Ace wants this, but we'll see, just play along with and post it. | ||
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Assume that by night 3 the whole mafia team will be aware of the other members are. Time to work on lynching people I guess. Mr.Wiggles, have you figured out why my vote is on you yet? | ||
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We now know we have to work on the assumption that the mafia will have all their names by day 3. I think thats a pretty relevant piece of knowledge for us to have, no? | ||
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Onto someone else who I want to post. Hi Eiii! Its nice to see you again. I find your lack of posts... disturbing. Time to give you a motivational push I think. ##Unvote ##Vote: Wiggles | ||
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##Unvote: Mr.WIggles ##Vote: Eiii | ||
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Also I am getting a weird vibe from Mr.Wiggles taking a quick look at his posts On April 25 2011 11:53 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Keep in mind that scum can kill scum as well. I think something we should watch out for is people trying to manipulate or send messages to scum about how to act, as that will help us pick out the GF. As soon as a few scum start popping up, we should be able to draw connections between them and other players, and hopefully find a common point in the GF. The hard part will be when we kill the GF, because then a new one is selected. When that happens we have to be careful to observe who is changing their behavior towards other players unexpectedly, because this could be a sign of the new GF who suddenly has all the other agent names. I think this is making an obvious post in alot of words, I'm not sure its FoS worthy, as alot of this type of posting is going on, but it set off my radar On April 25 2011 12:29 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Of course scum-hunting is going to be the best way to find scum, but breadcrumbs are also a good way of finding out the cell leader. It looks like he can only send one PM to one of his people per morning/evening, which means that he's going to have to find a way to get information out to them otherwise, or else he'll have no way to contact more than a couple of them. We can't really rely on the connections between players in this game, so if someone starts acting weird after PM time, maybe they're scum. Also, when we kill the GF, we can go back and look at who he was trying to direct, and who he was paying special attention to, and how. interestingly enough its a repetition of a previous post, it says the evident "scum hunting is how we find scum" but still encourages us to look for breadcrumbs. I like the comment on the GF but the rest of the post seems like filler trying to look like something is being added, again, not enough to make me yell "scum" but its making my gut uncomfortable, this is the real reason I put a pressure vote on wiggles, rather than inactive he seemed to me to be lurking On April 26 2011 07:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I'm just thinking we can look for things that are people trying to direct mafia. We can assume that the GF is going to find a way to make himself known to his agents. This is why stuff like: Looks somewhat scummy to me because of: Say Darm is scum, this could be him posting a potential hit target for the other cell members, in saying who he thinks is blue. As a general rule, I don't think people should point out who they think is blue or not. If they do an analysis, and figure someone is blue, they can just as easily call them town to protect them from sniping. I *really* like this point, I though it was evident as well, but it merits pointing out and wiggles gets a town point from me for making this point, as it warrants saying, on the other hand though it makes it obvious for any scum that missed it, which was my reason for leaving it there and hoping it stayed buried. Well, pressure doesn't work very well when the person isn't around to see it. :p I think you're voting for me because I made a couple posts, went to bed, and have been at school until just recently, so it looks like I'm lurking/inactive. This isn't really the case, I'm reading the thread, just a lot of my reactions and ideas will be delayed and concentrated in a few posts instead of all over until two days from now. That, or you think one of my ideas is scummy, but I just pointed out what I mean by leading the cell and breadcrumbs if that's the one you're worried about. This is actually the reaction I would expect from a town player, if wiggles were scum I would expect a more panicked reaction, its not a very solid tell but it partially assuages the churning in my stomach that his earlier posts caused As for breadcrumbs, you can look for people posting odd things, pictures, rhymes, ciphers, etc. Changing their signature and/or profile, writing things with the first words of every sentence or every line, stuff like that. It might be clever for scum to try, but I'm not going to obsess over it. I'm just saying that if there's something super apparent, it could easily be a mafia breadcrumb. I think this paragraph is redundant, no mafia is going to outright post a cypher or a easy breadcrumb like the first word of every sentence/line (and yes, I am checking for that) Now, to answer Ace. My three picks (with reasoning and follow-up) would go: 1. Ace. He's an experienced player and has a reputation as a good analyzer/arguer. 2. GMarshal. I have experience playing games with him, and think he's a good all-around player. 3. Jackal58. He tunnels a lot, and is a very aggressive poster. It would be good to get him in the know so I could use that to my advantage, and to avoid friendly fire. Message: "Follow PI Bear, Profile" 19 characters, 4 words. All they'd have to do is look into my profile, and see the picture I have there right now, as well as the first joke sentence underneath, "Hi, I'm Mr. Wiggles the Detective Bear! No matter the type of grisly discovery, I'll always be first on the scene! I've barely been stumped in my entire career!". This would easily alert them to my identity. This part triggers my gut once again, as its thought out way in depth, it also spells out what a non-obvious message means, which in my mind is explaining it to any of his scumbuddies to whom he might have sent the message. I'm not willing to FoS based on that but it makes me more uneasy The next thing I would do, is at some point, either post a scumlist that contains all of the sleeper agents, +/-1, or a scumlist that contains none of them +/-1. I would be sure not to provide much reasoning, and play down it's importance, so that no one would take it too seriously. I'd then hope the one's I've contacted would be smart enough to figure out that if they're on it, others are, or if they're not on it, no one else is, as they know I'm the Cell Leader, and must be up to something. Again detailing his plan in detail and also including how he is going to be communicating with his buddies if he is scum. If wiggles ever posts a scumlist I'd be interested to see the alignment of some of its members, as its possible wiggles has just detailed his plan so his buddies can see it. Again, it could be that wiggles has thought this out in depth, which is good, or it could be he is scum. Its not a tell for me either way, but it does make me decidedly uneasy Follow up messages would be: "PI Bear, Profile, List (or else Not List)" to notify everyone within the shortest amount of time of who I am, and to look at the list, or not at the list. Its a long post, so my comments in bold inside the quote Verdict: Keep your eyes peeled for wiggles, something about him seems off to me. FoS | ||
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On April 27 2011 01:01 Zorkmid wrote: Sandroba, I think you're town. You thought the same thing about me last game too and you were town then. By the way, you're dead wrong again. Weigh in then please, who do you think is mafia? Why? Lynch is in less than 10 hours, who would you like to see dead? While I'm throwing questions around, if you were a DT who would you check tonight? If you were a busdriver what two people would you swap? why? | ||
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On April 27 2011 04:27 Ace wrote: Because I feel you are the most scummy player in the game so far. Why else would I vote for you? Can you substantiate why you feel that way? I'd really like to hear the reasoning behind why you think he is the most likely to be scum. Oh, and Eiii and all the other lurkers, post more before I get annoyed | ||
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I know I've said this many times before, but I think our best call today is to lynch a lurker, with a non-unifed mafia it also means they have no way of knowing if they are lynching a buddy, which makes it much less likely to be misdirected than the usual attempts at day 1 inactive lynches. | ||
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Eiii Kenpachi GGQ all three of these are actively lurking and not contributing or trying to scumhunt, this is where I think mafia is trying to hide themselves, and even if we end up lynching a townie, it ends up encouraging more active posting from these people as far as zorkmid goes, my opinion on him is neutral atm, I think he might be a little overwhelmed by the number of new names, and he has a decent number of posts compared to those three, so I'm willing to give him a day to slip up if he is scum. My vote is already on Eiii, so I'm going to keep it on there for now. | ||
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On April 27 2011 08:27 GGQ wrote: You are approaching this like a regular game. Because of the agent mechanic, the other mafia don't know if he is mafia or blue, so they won't risk hitting him. I disagree, I think mafia are going to hit him anyway, because his role has provided something they can all see as a focus point. Cell agents all vote together for who they want to kill, almost like a mini lynch, with no way of knowing who is scum or town, so they are going to go for people they perceive to be playing the way town would/not they way scum would. What kind of retarded scum would publicly breadcrumb? Therefore the agents will conclude he isn't one of them and kill him, since they know he isn't a member. My thought process if I were an agent at least. | ||
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I find it mildly amusing that I posted the names of three people as inactive and all three of them popped up sooner rather than later. Almost as if they were watching the thread... Ace, you say that lurking is "old meta" but I have found that in my experience even experienced players tend to lurk as mafia, since its simply much more comfortable/you are less likely to slip up, especially without a team giving direction/help I think many of these players might decide to lurk, or at least be mildly inactive. You seem to think jackal is scum, is there any other player you think is likely to be mafia as well? | ||
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DT Checks Jackal58 - Ace thinks Jackal has been acting scummy, for this reason alone I think a dt should take a look at jackal, the results would be interesting either way Mr. Wiggles - I already pointed out that I am suspicious of him, it would be nice to know definitely, as I know wiggles has the potential to contribute to the town if he is town aligned, if he is not he is very good about scooting along with large vacuous posts GMarshal - DTs should aways check the most vocal players. I consider myself a vocal player, therefore I should be checked Ace - its Ace, as policy he should be checked. Also I find his retraction of the vote on jackal to be unexpected, from seeing previous games with Ace I would have expected him to stick to his guns with the lynch. Impervious- he has many posts, yet oddly enough, not a single one of them stuck in my mind, to me this means his posts have been empty enough to not be memorable, I think that merits a check Vigilante Shots - now its *really* debated whether it is best for vigilantes to shoot night one or not, if the vigi is not in imminent danger and is not confident on his mafia kill I belive in saving the shot for later, however some people subscribe to using it for people they would lynch on policy, e.g. liars, or lurkers. If a vigi *had* to fire tonight I would think the best shot would be at an inactive who might be lurking scum. That is the gist of my suggestions on here Eiii- Lurking, pops up to defend himself, resumes lurking, not a town asset at the moment, so we can do without him GGQ- more of the same deal with Eiii, lurking inactively, hasn't really weighed in on anything. why- with a grand total of four posts all he has done is attack jackal, I dont think he is contributing and we can do without him Vain- I see every one of his posts as either a rehash of old ideas or a non-contribution darm- because I think it would be hilarious to have him die day one this game too (don't actually shoot him for that, it was a joke...) Medic Protects GMarshal- I dont want to die, please dont let me die, I'll go through mafia withdrawal again and it wont be pretty Ace- he is Ace, high profile target and all that, I want him around in the late game. Jackal (maybe) - he is a great endgame player, and I wouldn't mind having him around to scum-hunt in the late game, I don't know how likely it is he will be targeted though. other than that I don't know who scum might go after to be honest, as they risk hitting one of their own whatever they choose to do Alright, so take a gander and debate my list up and down, who did I forget to include ? Who did I include who shouldn't be there? | ||
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On April 28 2011 00:36 Ace wrote: I don't know how many games of me you've read but I don't always stick to my vote, especially not Day 1. Also with no majority lynch someone can end up dying with a couple of votes. Like Kenpachi who only died with 3 votes. How come no one went back to look at it? Zorkmid actually ended up deciding Kenpachi's fate. Mr.Wiggles would have gotten lynched but the vote switch ended up taking out Kenpachi instead. He's also a good target to DT check and may actually be the best one. @Impervious: Acting weird how? I realize you dont always stick to your vote, I just expected you to argue harder for your target. what game do you think exemplifies your town play the best? I'd like to go back and read it to try to get a slight grasp on your town meta, tbh most of the games I've read where I've focused on your play are ones where you were mafia. Its interesting how our DT lists overlap, and you bring up a good point Zorkmid, I hadn't really taken a good look at the votes. Its relevant to note how scattered the votes are, the clear sign of a disunited town and a disunited mafia, we need to work on that tomorrow, as the current vote list reveals little information outside of what Ace just pointed out. I think your GF target list was a clever idea, I don't know how much it helps, but it did give interesting results. | ||
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On April 28 2011 02:45 Zorkmid wrote: You over tunneled me for 2 entire games, you're just bad. Reading your posts is a waste of vitrious and aqueous humor Such level of aggressiveness, you really dont like the heat do you? So tell me, Mr. "I dont give a fuck if inactives die" what have you contributed to this town? Other than "I agree" I mean. Hmm, I'm starting to think you might be a fine addition for a vigi hit, it would certainly save us alot of arguing tomorrow... | ||
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Hi bum! Quickly what are your top 2 scum reads? | ||
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On April 28 2011 07:48 Mr. Wiggles wrote: My scum play so far has just involved never being fingered as scum :p I'll fix that, from now on, day 1 you'll get an analysis definitely proving your scummy nature, even if you aren't in that game | ||
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On April 28 2011 08:00 Jackal58 wrote: It took me a minute to figure out what you were referring to. My ride home last night was brutal. It was back to the norm tonight. Just long. I'll be moving to lynch the next person to refer to traffic, ride, or any driving terms, hell any non-mafia conversations will be suspicious! this isn't your personal blogs section, whatever some people may have believed in the past | ||
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gl town, nail those bastards for me | ||
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EDIT: That constitutes an attempt to affect the game postmortem, and I will support a ban for it, its not cool, not funny and basically a dick move | ||
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On May 06 2011 12:03 Ace wrote: oh snap! both hosts late! [spectral voice] day ends at midnight, no?[/spectral voice] | ||
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FML should have shot, didn't expect to die. Also ace, the point of those lists was to get a read on who players were thought good to better distribute your kills right? | ||
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The whole "if you were a cell leader who would you message and what would you say?" | ||
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Yeah but your own team shot you, so you don't count. Also I figured out the best play is for all the cell members to intentionally try to spread out their shots, so that way the CL can choose who gets shot and avoid shooting its own team. Ofc its not easy, but it assuming the team is good at doing this they could have the CL always pick who to kill A good way of doing this would be to have the whole team just pick the person below them alphabetically for example. The hard thing would be communicating this to the team. | ||
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EDIT: and Ace when you make your return to normal games I want to be on your mafia team, your destruction of the town was something to learn from EDIT2: also kudos to sand, who was convinced jackal was going to get himself lynched all game long, he played a pretty scary game as mafia too. | ||
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On May 06 2011 13:52 GGQ wrote: I missed the post, what did it say? He quoted a huge post about how bum was probably lying and said something along the lines of "if I were cell leader why would I quit, thats a fun role, lol" | ||
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On May 06 2011 13:53 bumatlarge wrote: And of course that started inklings of me being right since he jumped on the wagon. It defintely would have played out differently, but I am satisfied with the outcome to an extent. And I mainly added the claim because my sister was having a baby! Didn't think I'd have any time to post after the analysis, but of course I made myself find time. In other news, I will be the godfather (which totals to 3 godchildren I have). Found that pretty funny Thanks iGrok and chaoser! Fantastic set-up. ooooh, congratulations man! Thats awesome news! | ||
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