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aidnai
United States1159 Posts
I like BC's model of several townie cells better, but that kinda relies on PMs unfortunately. I am OK with inactivity/lurker lynch day 1, but with several new players this game, I think we have a great shot at some imba scumtell lynches, possibly even day 1. It's too early to be throwing around FoSes, but two of our new posters have already got my eyebrows raised... | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
I know you aren't arguing for that, but I think that if we choose a mayor his scumhunting/analysis skills should be the first reason we choose him and his leadership the second. So you're saying we should choose Coag for the mayor position? He has decent scumhunting, shooting both the GF and Underboss. I dont think I fully agree with you Kav, leadership is vital, but I'd much rather have a strong analyst than a strong leader who is just wrong. We just recently talked about how the most important thing for a leader to have is to be able to convince others, not to just blindly scumhunt and then say HE IS SCUM I JUST KNOW IT. I think if you're a good analyst, you're bound to be a good leader because a good analyst is someone who can write convincing arguments and thus lead. This argument about good analyst vs good leader is a nonargument since a good analyst should also be a good leader. I'm more worried about second place. Seeing as how this allows someone to get BG protection and also know who the BGs are, reds and blacks will all be gunning to run for mayor. At the least they can get second place and get the names of the BG, which is all that the mafia needs to worry about in the case of a strong townie winning the mayor election. We should put pressure on anyone who will be running for the mayor campaign and obviously townies should pull out of the race if they feel someone else would make a better mayor than them. This way we get a small list of mayor campaigners and if red or black DID run then it's easy to find them. Also, in regards to the assassins, I think we SHOULD apply pressure on one if we find one. We can offer them a deal for protection/DT powers in return for getting to direct one of their 3 KPs. That way they get some help and we get some help. | ||
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aidnai
United States1159 Posts
Did you join the campaign to off Kavdragon day1? I must not have been looking when you did, but welcome to the club! XD | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 10 2011 04:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: what happens if the mafia doesn't run Then its a win/win situation for us, mafia just gave up a shot at two really, really useful roles. I'm having a hard time envisioning a scenario where the scumteam dosn't run for mayorship. If for nothing else, if they get a guy up there he is DT proof for a while and they get the names of the BGs | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 10 2011 05:00 GMarshal wrote: Then its a win/win situation for us, mafia just gave up a shot at two really, really useful roles. I'm having a hard time envisioning a scenario where the scumteam dosn't run for mayorship. If for nothing else, if they get a guy up there he is DT proof for a while and they get the names of the BGs and it's a lose situation if they tunnel lynches onto all the mayoral candidates using the exact same argument you just used | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On April 10 2011 04:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: what happens if the mafia doesn't run Then we have a bunch of analysis that says "soandso" is town. Confirming townies is very useful as well. You seem to be working hard to put down my efforts, but the only thing I see you doing is encouraging spam, an putting down others. Why don't you put forth any of your ideas? | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 10 2011 05:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote: and it's a lose situation if they tunnel lynches onto all the mayoral candidates using the exact same argument you just used They can only tunnel lynches if the town lets them tunnel lynches. I personally will be scrutinizing the mayoral candidates first, but that in no way shape or forms means that I will *only* look at them, or that I will refuse to consider anything else. Either way, you make a decent point, we should not focus exclusively on people who run for mayor as lynch targets, but I dont see the harm on giving them some extra scrutiny, at the very least the knowledge that they will be under the magnifying should make scum and assassins think twice about running | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On April 10 2011 04:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: what happens if the mafia doesn't run Then all the better. The statement is said to scare mafia not to do stuff. We put the fear of it in front of them and they'll think twice about it. Though I doubt in this game not a single mafia will run. Being pardoner is too juicy a role to get that's relatively easy to get. In XXXVII even LSB posting the list of people by ranking scared me enough not to kill off everyone in tier 2. Obviously I was playing way too safe since all I wanted to do is get to LYLO and use my "townieness" but the same thing applies here. My bluff in insane led to much WIFOM for Kav and in the end iGrok's posts pushed him to call my bluff but if he didn't then I would have pulled way ahead. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 10 2011 05:01 Kavdragon wrote: Then we have a bunch of analysis that says "soandso" is town. Confirming townies is very useful as well. You seem to be working hard to put down my efforts, but the only thing I see you doing is encouraging spam, an putting down others. Why don't you put forth any of your ideas? because i dont feel the need to write paragraphs about useless shit saying basically: 1. the mayor is important! 2. the pardoner is also important 3. be careful who you vote for! 4. mafia may or may not run for mayor! 5. we should pressure inactive people! this is all obvious stuff. no one has said anything of value yet and because the game hasn't even started I haven't taken the time to scrutinize the game setup and come up with a plan for how I'm going to play this game or where I think the town should go. but that doesn't mean i can't smell your "look at me and how townie i'm acting!" bs right away | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 10 2011 05:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote: because i dont feel the need to write paragraphs about useless shit saying basically: 1. the mayor is important! 2. the pardoner is also important 3. be careful who you vote for! 4. mafia may or may not run for mayor! 5. we should pressure inactive people! this is all obvious stuff. no one has said anything of value yet and because the game hasn't even started I haven't taken the time to scrutinize the game setup and come up with a plan for how I'm going to play this game or where I think the town should go. but that doesn't mean i can't smell your "look at me and how townie i'm acting!" bs right away DrH mimicking my post. Probably scum buddies. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 10 2011 05:05 chaoser wrote: Then all the better. The statement is said to scare mafia not to do stuff. We put the fear of it in front of them and they'll think twice about it. Though I doubt in this game not a single mafia will run. Being pardoner is too juicy a role to get that's relatively easy to get. In XXXVII even LSB posting the list of people by ranking scared me enough not to kill off everyone in tier 2. Obviously I was playing way too safe since all I wanted to do is get to LYLO and use my "townieness" but the same thing applies here. My bluff in insane led to much WIFOM for Kav and in the end iGrok's posts pushed him to call my bluff but if he didn't then I would have pulled way ahead. idk honestly if im mafia im thinking "lets not run and then try to keep all the pressure on the people who ran for mayor for a few days while we wreak havoc." even if a few lynches don't go that way, it's pretty easy to keep attention on the mayoral/pardoner candidates since they usually post a lot in the beginning and townies who post a lot are likely to contradict themselves at least once so imo the mayor powers are not nearly as strong as the power to manipulate the towns focus by any means necessary that's just my take on it | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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Incognito
United States2071 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 10 2011 05:17 chaoser wrote: Well I do understand where that thinking is coming from, I think mayor having 3 vote powers is fucking huge and way stronger than some perceived power to manipulate town. It's basically the ability to make 4 people have to change votes to get someone else lynched (3 to tie, 1 to push lynch into the lead). Also by having someone who is a good leader+analyst can keep the rampant fingering throwing down to a minimum. I think at most we'll spend day 2 looking at the candidates and once that's passed we can, as town, consciously focus on post-by-post analysis and not fall into the trap that happened in insane mafia which was just gut hunting with almost 0 percent analysis. Yeah but there is a trade off. IT isn't all just numbers. If mafia wins mayor: 1. invites 10x more scrutiny onto himself 2. can't really use the power however he wants, his votes will be 10x scrutinized basically all it is, is a potential for a faster LYLO. the mayor can really only abuse his vote power if the mafia is great at splitting bandwagons and if the mayor uses his votes to save somebody, you better bet they're both in the hotseat | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On April 10 2011 05:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote: basically all it is, is a potential for a faster LYLO. the mayor can really only abuse his vote power if the mafia is great at splitting bandwagons and if the mayor uses his votes to save somebody, you better bet they're both in the hotseat Yeah so sorry, what are we arguing over again lol? Seems like all we're doing is talking about the inherent risks of the mayor campaign and the end conclusion is that we should vote mayor is town, a mafia mayor needs to play well or he will be discovered. I figure only good players are going to be running, and in serious contention, for the mayor spot anyway. I doubt the mafia team will send in someone that they don't think can handle the pressure if there is any. Is your main point that we shouldn't focus on the mayor candidates after the mayor has been selected because mafia can just not run and then make us focus on them unnecessarily? Then can't mafia also run and then say we shouldn't focus on the mayor candidates since mafia could have not run and so on? It's a big WIFOM that really leads nowhere except to create a WIFOM conversation topic that people will come into arguing about basically nothing since both sides are possible. That being said, I'd rather be safe and look at the mayor candidates for at least Day 2. To not look at them would be absurd and bad play. If we sniff out anyone, all the better. If not, we place them on the back burner and if something does come up at a later day then we come back to it. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
Is your main point that we shouldn't focus on the mayor candidates after the mayor has been selected because mafia can just not run and then make us focus on them unnecessarily? Also, it's relatively easy to see when focus on someone unnecessarily is being done by someone else. That leads to a FoS on the person doing it if it happens and if the person lynched flips green then there's huge pressure on the person who did a shitty case of tunneling/gut read/bad logic on the green townie that just got lynched. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 10 2011 05:28 chaoser wrote: Yeah so sorry, what are we arguing over again lol? Seems like all we're doing is talking about the inherent risks of the mayor campaign and the end conclusion is that we should vote mayor is town, a mafia mayor needs to play well or he will be discovered. I figure only good players are going to be running, and in serious contention, for the mayor spot anyway. I doubt the mafia team will send in someone that they don't think can handle the pressure if there is any. Is your main point that we shouldn't focus on the mayor candidates after the mayor has been selected because mafia can just not run and then make us focus on them unnecessarily? Then can't mafia also run and then say we shouldn't focus on the mayor candidates since mafia could have not run and so on? It's a big WIFOM that really leads nowhere except to create a WIFOM conversation topic that people will come into arguing about basically nothing since both sides are possible. That being said, I'd rather be safe and look at the mayor candidates for at least Day 2. To not look at them would be absurd and bad play. If we sniff out anyone, all the better. If not, we place them on the back burner and if something does come up at a later day then we come back to it. yeah that would be absurd not to look at them but if we're still arguing about mayor candidates on day 3 then something bad has happened and it's probably because the mafia wanted it to happen i can basically agree with what you said here | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 10 2011 05:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote: yeah that would be absurd not to look at them but if we're still arguing about mayor candidates on day 3 then something bad has happened and it's probably because the mafia wanted it to happen i can basically agree with what you said here Then again keeping track of who ran is important, e.g. if we hit lylo with a serious mayor candidate still alive, I'm going to be somewhat suspicious of him, as I expect all the serious campaigners will be vets and at least decent player. Basically who runs for mayor provides us with useful information, we should make use of it, but not obsess over it either. | ||
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aidnai
United States1159 Posts
On April 10 2011 01:51 Robellicose wrote: I'd probably agree with this statement. Unless someone red/black goofs up and it's horrifically obvious that we can lynch them. And whilst I've not played/read a game that used a pardoner, we'll have to be pretty damned careful that we get one of us into the position - imagine a successful lynch of the godfather being blocked by some asshole mafia pardoner. man that would piss me off... How much mafia experience do you have robellicose? your name is also kinda fricking long to type, you have a preferred nick? | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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