EPTInsane Mafia 2 - Page 52
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On March 25 2011 15:39 orgolove wrote: Blindly? I just trust his reasonable attitude and scumhunting abilities, both what he's showing right now and from previous experience, much more than your blue "slip" and power play gamble. Thanks to you, the entire first day has been wasted so far on debate of your alignment, when we have 30+ other players, 1/3rd of them of which are black or red. What we need is levelheaded analysis and not a hotheaded accusation just based on how someone doesn't support you. Like I am attacking annul right? You slunk in behind him and said exactly what he did. That isn't good town play. It seems like you just twist what he says. On March 25 2011 04:32 annul wrote: here is the problem with bum's plan if you are a red, you want to take down the blacks. you know that a blue's interests are split between killing red and black. not ONLY red. if you are a red, the only night harm you have is from the blacks (other than vig etc). so you have an incentive to wait. if bum is a red, then a real blue knows that the blue team (as empowered greens, essentially) has 4 players to take down 10. A ONE FOR ONE TRADE IS A BAD TRADE FOR A BLUE IN A GAME WITH 10 "SCUM" AND 20 NONSCUM. bum knows this. the black team cant know if bum is red or blue here (if he isnt black) and the red team cant know if bum is black or blue (if he isnt red). the existence of the second scum team makes this entire logic very different than it would otherwise be. the fact one scum team is bulletproof also fucks with the logic. it is not so ironclad that a lack of a CC means bum is a blue. that is all i am arguing. i am also arguing that bum got an alignment PM and not a role PM, so his claim that there is "more to the cops except a PM circle" is very very very suspicious. further, this could be a play to draw medic help knowing he is a red/black and he might as well just steal a medic. who knows. many ways that bum can not be honest here. all of the above can be added to the fact that i have proven earlier the logic behind giving mayor to an item game player. item game players are already going to be the first kill targets at night. we need to have the chance to give us as good a chance to win item game as the black team has. tl;dr not counterclaiming bum, but the fact no CC exists doesnt mean he is a blue, and in fact it makes logical sense for there to not be a CC. also, vote an item game player mayor, even if not me. but vote me <3 On March 25 2011 04:52 orgolove wrote: Sorry. I've been busy with trip preparations - I have to drive ~1000 miles back and forth this weekend, and need to do a checkup on my car etc etc. Anyway - How can we trust bum when he roleclaimed so early in the game? He's a great player - I don't think any decent actual blue would take the risk of revealing his role so early. He might actually be a black, trying to draw hits and confusing us with fake checks. I'm thinking of what happened with annul in.. I think it was salem mafia or something - where he did an early roleclaim as a godfather, and everyone believed him after a cop confirm. That was absolutely disastrous for us. There really is no logic for us to believe bum. These are a page apart. I don't think you said anything annul did not. Annul could say the scummiest thing on the planet, and if you say the same thing in a different way, I'm more inclined that you are mafia. | ||
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annul
United States2841 Posts
what else would anyone be talking about on night 0 if not the mayoral elections? im sorry if you are too lazy to read 50 pages but thats on you, dont blame me for playing the game. this is why i play this way on early days: go big or go home. but you know what i DID do? i got fuuuucktons of people on the record in a huge, huge way in some cases. even if i didnt win the argument, my long term play won the day. but things change and i adapted. my play is fluid. i find it hilarious how kav, et al pretty much admit i am a town but they still want to get rid of me. warning sign much? we do not have many chances to take out the TEN scum in the game, you know. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On March 25 2011 16:05 annul wrote: i was of the opinion that what TL lacked were strong townies willing to argue their point if they thought they were right. apparently its a policy lynch now? are you fucking kidding? what else would anyone be talking about on night 0 if not the mayoral elections? im sorry if you are too lazy to read 50 pages but thats on you, dont blame me for playing the game. this is why i play this way on early days: go big or go home. but you know what i DID do? i got fuuuucktons of people on the record in a huge, huge way in some cases. even if i didnt win the argument, my long term play won the day. but things change and i adapted. my play is fluid. i find it hilarious how kav, et al pretty much admit i am a town but they still want to get rid of me. warning sign much? we do not have many chances to take out the TEN scum in the game, you know. I have to admit I agree here. You may not like long threads but annul was giving valid points and it caused a lot of people to speak up. Unless annul did something more scummy then disagreeing that I am blue in INSANE MAFIA, then I don't really feel he's that great of a target. | ||
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annul
United States2841 Posts
i actually fully believe you are blue now. unrelated to your defense of me, too. i picked up on something subtle. my opposition is dropped. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On March 25 2011 14:38 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: But Kav, are you still against voting for Bum because you want a "Strong" scumhunter in the mayor position? I wouldn't mind a summary before reading 9 miles of shit. RoL: My argument for Kav>Bum rests on Analysis > Blues. If he proves he's a good analyst, then my argument turns against me, and I agree that he's the better candidate. So far, he's not provided anything to convince me otherwise, so I keep my name in the running. I think that the only two legitimate candidates are Bum and myself at this point. Bum: If I understand you correctly, you think that annul should be pardoned because he can shape up. I can understand this. If you are pardoning his previous actions, I disagree. It made people give definite opinions on pretty obvious things, and the net result of the argument was to figure out something that should have been obvious from the beginning. Yes, there were a few good things that came out of the argument, but I think the amount of useful information is very little considering it took up roughly 20 pages. We could have discussed much more useful things imo. The reason I want to lynch Annul is because I don't want this to happen again. I don't want a gryphindor in this game. I don't see enough of an indication that he is going to change his posting style to make me want to give him a second chance. Now, if a better target presents it'self, then sure. I'm not going to tunnel Annul. I just think that he's the best lynch right now. Annul: I never said that I thought you were town. The truth is, I have a hard time reading you, because you always look scummy to me. Unfortunetly, most of the time, you have been scum. This makes you a hard to read player who is actively distracting/diverting and wasting a lot of town's time. Someone who is worth a day-one lynch. It's a harsh condemnation, but I'm not going to go easy when the town's best interests are at stake. You have 10% of the posts in this game (5 pages worth!), but you have NOT contributed 10% of the information/ideas that we have now. Find a better way explain your points so you don't have to repeat them. It will save everyone a lot of time, and the town will benefit. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
I mean, yes, annul seemed very anti-town so far, and I would also get rid of such players, but he was trying to make his case and at least we have a lot of pages of posts to analyse, if need be. The quiet ones are always the ones that are hiding something. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On March 25 2011 14:35 bumatlarge wrote: Dont mix up blues with power roles this game. Blue in this game should mean my circle, not an individual person with a power like DT medi or vig. Those are "Power" roles. Say this again bum. I see players making the same mistake that was made in XXXV. Players assuming that there will be a vig or a medic or other typical blue roles. We don't know that. We must play with the assumption there are none. | ||
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tnkted
United States1359 Posts
On March 25 2011 19:42 CubEdIn wrote: While I do agree that there are a few players who look scummy, I would also suggest we put some hard pressure on the lurkers. Especially those who are also in the item game. I mean, yes, annul seemed very anti-town so far, and I would also get rid of such players, but he was trying to make his case and at least we have a lot of pages of posts to analyse, if need be. The quiet ones are always the ones that are hiding something. This. Amber[LighT] and Brownbear haven't posted much of anything, and i know that they both (brownbear at least) are usually pretty active. We could also put some pressure on lemonwalrus. As a matter of fact, lets analyze lemonwalrus. On March 17 2011 18:48 Lemonwalrus wrote: /in if you are even still letting people in? It is my first time, but I promise to read the rules thoroughly after class today and come prepared. He's a noobie. A green noobie (such as myself) would be excited about the game, and would be posting a lot. A blue noobie would sit back and lurk. We know he isn't a blue noobie because there aren't any in the item game. Therefore... On March 24 2011 11:39 Lemonwalrus wrote: Actually it is black and baby-blue. This is tl. Well this was an astounding contribution. Actually, GM called him out on it: On March 24 2011 11:47 Lemonwalrus wrote: Well, I think that the 'vote or no vote for day 1 lynch' platform is a moot point. Someone running with a day 1 vote could easily be mafia, since mafia would have a good shot at tipping the vote, especially now when there is no real suspicion on anyone. Then again they could easily be not mafia and just want to use the vote as a way to win the popular vote to make a vote for them seem like a vote for fairness. Similarly, someone running no day 1 vote could easily be mafia since, obviously getting a free kill day 1 is good for mafia. But they could easily be not mafia and just trust their own mafia sniffing capabilities better than that of the town in the case of a vote. So basically, as of right now, I have not seen any compelling reasons to vote for anyone, I'm gonna wait to see how the debates continue and vote for whoever I think has the strongest ideas for further down the road. Idk, this is my first game though, so maybe I'm thinking too hard about it. Waffling. He doesn't have an opinion. To give him credit, this is early in the game, but still he hasn't contributed anything. If he was really a noobie townie he'd be falling over himself trying to contribute something. But he doesn't, and whats more, his reasons for not contributing are very telling: he claims hes a noobie! On March 25 2011 03:09 Lemonwalrus wrote: Sorry about the one-liners from before...it is my first time, I didn't realize that was inappropriate. I promise to make all future posts of mine painfully and needlessly verbose. As far as the bum/not bum vote, I think bum is the best bet for the town for reasons that have already been discussed at length. (the biggest one for me being that I think if he wasn't blue by now one of the real blues would have surely counter-claimed) (If you are a blue and therefore know that bum isn't, please, there is no reason for you not to counter claim) So unless someone gives one hell of a compelling reason for me not to I intend to vote bum. As far as the irc channels goes, well, gather round fellas, because I may be new to mafia, but I am an old hand at irc. I think having an irc for this is a very bad idea. Basically, it is just a more fast paced version of the forum which, on the one hand i know we all think 'well that is good it gives the scum more of a chance to fuck up and reveal themselves when they are under the gun' but the thing is, everyone will fuck up sooner or later. I'm sure if we do an irc channel literally everyone that participates will, sooner or later, say something that convinces someone that they are scum. That is what happens when you are able to share information without thinking hard about it first. (for instance, look at my signature...do you think any of those guys (besides aesop) would have said those things if they had had time to re-read it before clicking a post button?) Also, I see a major component of the irc channel debate will be 'x isn't active in irc, he must be scum' or 'x is too active in irc, he must be scum' basically wifom madness imo, since with imperfect data either choice will put suspicion on a player and, since town outnumbers scum, more suspicion floating around should benefit scum. So I vote no on irc and yes on bum, and the above are my reasons. Why is he using his noobiness to explain why he isn't contributing?! A true green noobie would be trying to contribute his ass off (like I am right now) instead of coming into the thread, posting unhelpful bullshit like this. Also notice how one small paragraph in that 'significant post' as chaoser calls it immediately below is actually related to the topic at hand (bum), and the rest of it is devoted to an entirely tangential vote on the IRC channel. I'd say, purely line for line, only a forth of this post is actually analysis, and its analysis that had been done by six other players by the time he posted it. Then, when he gets called out for waffling, he posts this. On March 25 2011 03:17 Lemonwalrus wrote: wtf the more i post the more i get crap for not posting, what do you guys want from me  (((((Also I hadn't even thought of the impersonating people on irc thing that GMarshal brought up in his post. That is yet another convolution that irc will bring to the process. (although if we caught someone impersonating it would make it pretty obvious they were scum...so a potential for reward if a scum were to be so bold as to impersonate someone) I think the real problem with the irc is that there is such a thing as too much information when you are trying to make a decision. If we have pages and pages of posts and pages and pages of irc logs to go by, 2 sides could make bulletproof arguments for one person being scum/not scum, and it could be almost impossible to tell who was right with any sort of objectivity. Also....picking through irc logs sounds really tedious. I know that has no importance in the function of the game, but I just feel it will be less fun with a mountain of irc logs...and I kinda want to have fun. IRC IRC IRC. No discussion on bum, no discussion on kav. He has no thoughts other than IRC (which a noobie mafia would obviously not want) and a rehashing of a rehashing of bums position. And this is his last significant post in this topic! his final post says something like, "I decided not to post until roles were given out. The last ten pages in this topic could have been replaced with a kitten playing with yarn." I wasn't convinced he was mafia before I started this post but I am now. BURN THE WALRUS  | ||
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Insanious
Canada1251 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On March 25 2011 16:05 annul wrote: i was of the opinion that what TL lacked were strong townies willing to argue their point if they thought they were right. apparently its a policy lynch now? are you fucking kidding? what else would anyone be talking about on night 0 if not the mayoral elections? im sorry if you are too lazy to read 50 pages but thats on you, dont blame me for playing the game. this is why i play this way on early days: go big or go home. but you know what i DID do? i got fuuuucktons of people on the record in a huge, huge way in some cases. even if i didnt win the argument, my long term play won the day. but things change and i adapted. my play is fluid. i find it hilarious how kav, et al pretty much admit i am a town but they still want to get rid of me. warning sign much? we do not have many chances to take out the TEN scum in the game, you know. I disagree with this post. TL lacks strong townies that argue their point and can convince people that their point is right. We already have tons of people who argue their points till the point is beaten and dead. BM (well, I guess not anymore), Jackal (when he tunnels), and youngminii, are just a few of the people who do that. Clearly you can see the difference between what you posted here and what Foolishness posted in XXXVII. There's a difference. A strong and good argument isn't one that you continue to bash over people's heads even thoguh they disagree. A strong and good argument is one that's can inherently be seen as good and agreed upon by at least a decent amount of people. While some (including me) agree with some of your points, the few points that I agree with are drowned out by all the other spam and garbage that you've posted (not to be mean). Yeah you got lots of talking down as can be seen by the page count. But what of that is really analyzable? Most of the people say the same thing over and over and over again, everyone is basically parroting each other's arguments. At the end of the day it came down to a fundamental disagreement that couldn't be resolved and should have been dropped till more information was known. This was similar to the situation with LSB v GMarshal in XXXVII over the PM system. After arguing for a decent amount, both decided that it came down to simply a difference in thought and so dropped the issue in favor of actually trying to catch scum and you got lynched. I don't know what "on the record in huge huge ways" you're talking about and would love to see you quote some statements that would give insight into a person's alignment that also doesn't have a similar post a page later saying the same thing from someone completely different. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On March 26 2011 00:08 Insanious wrote: @GMarshal, you also have to take into consideration perople from other time zones... Or people like me that only have 2 posts since I'm at work and can't be on TL all the time On March 25 2011 03:05 Insanious wrote: @GMarshal, you also have to take into consideration perople from other time zones... Or people like me that only have 2 posts since I'm at work and can't be on TL all the time ??? You posted the exact same thing twice on two different days??? | ||
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Insanious
Canada1251 Posts
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Rean
Netherlands808 Posts
On March 26 2011 01:01 Insanious wrote: So apparently I used the return button to send me to the page that sent my last msg in game resending it... I probably would of sent it like 8 times if TL didn't block double posts... Note to self, don't use backspace to go back through pages if you have sent a message... Just navigate your way there. Ugh. Sorry about that. you kept the same browser open for 21 hours? | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On March 25 2011 23:32 tnkted wrote: This. Amber[LighT] and Brownbear haven't posted much of anything, and i know that they both (brownbear at least) are usually pretty active. We could also put some pressure on lemonwalrus. As a matter of fact, lets analyze lemonwalrus. He's a noobie. A green noobie (such as myself) would be excited about the game, and would be posting a lot. A blue noobie would sit back and lurk. We know he isn't a blue noobie because there aren't any in the item game. Therefore... Well this was an astounding contribution. Actually, GM called him out on it: Waffling. He doesn't have an opinion. To give him credit, this is early in the game, but still he hasn't contributed anything. If he was really a noobie townie he'd be falling over himself trying to contribute something. But he doesn't, and whats more, his reasons for not contributing are very telling: he claims hes a noobie! Why is he using his noobiness to explain why he isn't contributing?! A true green noobie would be trying to contribute his ass off (like I am right now) instead of coming into the thread, posting unhelpful bullshit like this. Also notice how one small paragraph in that 'significant post' as chaoser calls it immediately below is actually related to the topic at hand (bum), and the rest of it is devoted to an entirely tangential vote on the IRC channel. I'd say, purely line for line, only a forth of this post is actually analysis, and its analysis that had been done by six other players by the time he posted it. Then, when he gets called out for waffling, he posts this. IRC IRC IRC. No discussion on bum, no discussion on kav. He has no thoughts other than IRC (which a noobie mafia would obviously not want) and a rehashing of a rehashing of bums position. And this is his last significant post in this topic! his final post says something like, "I decided not to post until roles were given out. The last ten pages in this topic could have been replaced with a kitten playing with yarn." I wasn't convinced he was mafia before I started this post but I am now. BURN THE WALRUS So since he's not you he's scum? | ||
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Insanious
Canada1251 Posts
I don't close my browser on my laptop or on my phone. | ||
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tnkted
United States1359 Posts
On March 26 2011 01:11 Jackal58 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 25 2011 23:32 tnkted wrote: This. Amber[LighT] and Brownbear haven't posted much of anything, and i know that they both (brownbear at least) are usually pretty active. We could also put some pressure on lemonwalrus. As a matter of fact, lets analyze lemonwalrus. He's a noobie. A green noobie (such as myself) would be excited about the game, and would be posting a lot. A blue noobie would sit back and lurk. We know he isn't a blue noobie because there aren't any in the item game. Therefore... Well this was an astounding contribution. Actually, GM called him out on it: Waffling. He doesn't have an opinion. To give him credit, this is early in the game, but still he hasn't contributed anything. If he was really a noobie townie he'd be falling over himself trying to contribute something. But he doesn't, and whats more, his reasons for not contributing are very telling: he claims hes a noobie! Why is he using his noobiness to explain why he isn't contributing?! A true green noobie would be trying to contribute his ass off (like I am right now) instead of coming into the thread, posting unhelpful bullshit like this. Also notice how one small paragraph in that 'significant post' as chaoser calls it immediately below is actually related to the topic at hand (bum), and the rest of it is devoted to an entirely tangential vote on the IRC channel. I'd say, purely line for line, only a forth of this post is actually analysis, and its analysis that had been done by six other players by the time he posted it. Then, when he gets called out for waffling, he posts this. IRC IRC IRC. No discussion on bum, no discussion on kav. He has no thoughts other than IRC (which a noobie mafia would obviously not want) and a rehashing of a rehashing of bums position. And this is his last significant post in this topic! his final post says something like, "I decided not to post until roles were given out. The last ten pages in this topic could have been replaced with a kitten playing with yarn." I wasn't convinced he was mafia before I started this post but I am now. BURN THE WALRUS So since he's not you he's scum? Since hes not acting like I would (as a new player) hes either blue or scum, and since hes not blue... How about you tell me what you think new players act like in their first game when they're green? you've probably seen your share of new players. How do they act? Lemonwalruses behavior this game is competely nonsensical to me, and if he was green i'd be the other person in this game that understands his position. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 26 2011 01:46 tnkted wrote: Since hes not acting like I would (as a new player) hes either blue or scum, and since hes not blue... How about you tell me what you think new players act like in their first game when they're green? you've probably seen your share of new players. How do they act? Lemonwalruses behavior this game is competely nonsensical to me, and if he was green i'd be the other person in this game that understands his position. I agree he needs to post/contribute a little more, but from a psychological perspective, newer players also have a tendency to become overwhelmed and lurk. In a game as active as this, it's easy to see huge numbers of pages and just get disheartened. I feel that it doesn't say much about his alignment at the moment, but if he continues to lurk after being called out, then I'd say it's something to look into. In fact, every game there's always a couple new players who just give up on playing and end up getting mod-killed, they're normally green too. They feel bored, because they don't have cool abilities/are mafia, and they just give up. I wouldn't expect that reasoning to hold this game though, as everyone either has abilities, or is in the item game. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
On March 26 2011 01:46 tnkted wrote: Since hes not acting like I would (as a new player) hes either blue or scum, and since hes not blue... How about you tell me what you think new players act like in their first game when they're green? you've probably seen your share of new players. How do they act? Lemonwalruses behavior this game is competely nonsensical to me, and if he was green i'd be the other person in this game that understands his position. Actually you are very different from a typical tl first timer, lemonwalrus is much more the norm. You can't compare yourself to someone like lemonwalrus or lanaia or igrok because you're not normal  . On tl most noobs lurk for their first couple of games before they actually become active (and yes there are exceptions to this [yourself for instance] but on the most part this is true).Also I had no life last night so I decided to analyze Annul which I'm going over now and should be out in a half an hour or so. | ||
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