EPTTL Mafia XXXVII - Page 33
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RLTY
United States965 Posts
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RLTY
United States965 Posts
On February 24 2011 15:36 gryffindor wrote: I could reference a particular game in which it lead to a lopsided town victory, and a game in which the town didn't create a circle whatsoever which was a convincing scum win. It's a case by case scenario. People don't have to believe in confirmation, but I know I will claim immediately when that time comes, except seriously this time. Now, if you all want to lynch me, as some LAL(lynch all liars), go right ahead. Lose your best tactician. I actually think gryff is the most respectable player so far from his posts but his fervent vote is like wtf status. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 24 2011 15:20 gryffindor wrote: the HOST actually told me it was a good idea. I said no such thing. Do not claim that a host said something he didn't. Seriously this isn't tolerated behavior. Unless you show me a PM from either Meapak or myself saying this you are getting a warning. PM me. | ||
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seRapH
United States9768 Posts
Seriously, take a stance on someone. Most of my game since my 6666th post has been going on through PMs, but I guess that was selfish of me >_> ##Vote Icemac Things to take sides on: GM vs Gryff- Cell System Annul vs LSB- XXXV Personally I doubt either of annul or LSB are scum, this is just a grudgematch. Coag and Kenpachi are playing more pro-town than usual (or maybe its just less spam?) People I'm suspicious of: Jackal- Playing a lot more passively than he did as town Icemac- Stop dodging the issues at hand Gofarman- Proponent of lynching inactives. Voting annul. A few more I'm not too sure of, will follow up on their posts tomorrow when I'm awake. Maybe. | ||
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kevconsim
United States317 Posts
##Vote Icemac Basically what seRapH said dodging issues and the fact that i dont have any one else that i want to vote for. Gnight everyone | ||
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gryffindor
United States524 Posts
Also, how is it that you can't correlate my idea with his cell idea? Just because we have cells scumhunting, doesn't mean we can't PM a confirmed on d2 or d3. I do not see how it is black vs white, when there is in fact a lot of room for gray area. | ||
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Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
First off, goddammit GMarshal, leaking my top suspect. Can’t you hold it in for 1 night?  I wanted to see if he would actually post in the evening as he promised, but the weak FoS gave him a chance to defend himself before I got around to post. Well, at least it proved that Jackal58 has great reaction time, despite not talking much.My thoughts on the thread so far: GMarshals plan is a lot like what RoL has recommended for PM’s, pick out some random people from the list and start talking to them. While you can’t trust them, you get more to analyse, and it’s easier to catch a mafia slipping up if you have more opinions from them. Just be careful with experienced players, and treat your partners like they are scum. If I was on a scumteam, I would tell my inexperienced teammates to stay out of PM land. Gryffindor proposes a really silly (in lack of a better word) plan, there is no way of finding guaranteed innocents with GF and framer around, and even if one such could be found, all mafia has to do is gain his trust and make him spill, =dead blues. The only benefit of mass claim to a confirmed townie is the coordination of medic protection and DT checks. It won’t magicly find mafia amongst the non claimers, or identify fake claims. What gryffindor does do is post a lot, he promotes activity, and he is actually scumhunting. I don’t give much for his lists, but so far his impact has been positive on the town, as long as people don’t stop thinking for themselves. Regarding annul, you should keep in mind that he opposed GMarshals plan before he (allegedly) got his role PM. Hence I would be very careful with lynching him just for opposing that alone. Other than that agree with Foolishness’ comment, it would be funny if LSB got revenge on annul. Why has a decent case on icemac, but not certain if icemac is aggressive townie or mafia. Analysis of Jackal58 On February 24 2011 00:47 Jackal58 wrote: Good day fellow scum hunters. Sorry for the late start but I bowl on Tuesday night. There are quite a few people in this game that I have never seen before so it's going to take me a bit to wrap my head around everything everybody has said so far. My thoughts on cells: Thoroughly undecided. If their only reason for being is analysis keep it in the thread. I'm at work right now so I might not be able to post as much as I'd like, but I'll be in here this evening. gryffindor why on earth would you claim vet? I did it in XXXVI to avoid being lynched but man that was pointless. You're making the hair on the back of my neck stand up. This post is COMPLETELY out of the ordinary for Jackal. Jackal’s playstyle as town consist of independent opinions, with a tendency to tunnel. His posting style is stubborn and humorous. He rarely posts long posts, and in general just give short statements, but often posts a lot. When he finds scum, he will make it clear for everyone, state his reasons, and keep up pressure on the person. Being stubborn he is very difficult to convince otherwise, once he has found his target(s). In the above post he differs from his usual play as town in a number of ways. Sorry for the late start but I… … so it's going to take me a bit to wrap my head around everything everybody has said so far. …so I might not be able to post as much as I'd like… First of all he gives multiple excuses as to his posting straight away. This is unlike his other games, even in his first game in mafia xxxv he didn’t feel the need to excuse his inexperience without being called out for it. As I said above, Jackal is an independent player, he doesn’t care much if people accuse him, town yells at him or if the things he sais comes off in the wrong way. Him apologising like this upfront, without anyone even calling him out is unusual. If you a read Ver’s guide to improving at mafia, it’s not natural for a green mindset to apologise and appear useless, since it will make other players pay less attention to what they have to say. It is however entirely within the mindset of a mafia, who just want to make a post noone cares about, and let the town fight with itself instead. He apologies for posting less, but in normal games his many first posts are just one liners, this one is a lengthy one for him. By sheer size it should be an improvement for him, but what does it really contain? My thoughts on cells: Thoroughly undecided. If their only reason for being is analysis keep it in the thread. His thoughts are thoroughly undecided. Why even comment then? If this is the reason he felt the need to add to the conversation, then I sincerely expected more. Jackal as town has very strong opinions, and this is just neutral mentioning – he doesn’t improve the plan, he just questions it. Posting without contributing. gryffindor why on earth would you claim vet? I did it in XXXVI to avoid being lynched but man that was pointless. You're making the hair on the back of my neck stand up. A weak FoS with a relevant question. On one hand it is sort of an opinion, on the other hand it has been posted before. In Guts and Glory he simply quoted Amber[light]’s post and commented “this post ems of scummyness”. Weak FoS isn’t typical Jackal, even if I wouldn’t rule it out. It’s not much to warrant a post like that from him though. I'm at work right now so I might not be able to post as much as I'd like, but I'll be in here this evening. He promises to post more in the evening. I was holding this analysis back to see if he actually would. As I said in the beginning, this got ruined, but he didn’t post until he got mentioned, and it still proved his reaction time was good. Note that Jackal has been posting from work in his other games, and it hasn’t stopped him from being active. Other suspicious post: On February 24 2011 01:56 Jackal58 wrote: I have received a PM from GMarshall as well. Whoopee. I will probably even answer him. But posting quotes and copies of PMs is a very scummy thing to do. You can make them say anything. Please stop. Sharp reaction to getting PM’ed. Jackal had no problem PM’ing with me in mafia xxxv. ##Vote Jackal58 | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
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seRapH
United States9768 Posts
GM's cell system are independent from each other during day-to-day activities. It also involves less risk because you're not roleclaiming. It's a bottom-up system. Your cell system is really just one big cell, that doesn't really give each person much choice or flexibility in the matter. It has more risk because "confirmations" are never truly confirmations, just within certain likelihood. It's a top-down system. In my eyes, GM's is the less-risk, less-return choice, and yours is the high-risk, high-return choice. Personally, I like GM's better, but would rather have a more community-chosen circles. I propose that anyone who wants to do GM's plan sign up with a confirmation and then we make circles amongst them. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
##Vote Jackal58 | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
I had a bit of time to go through the thread, and most likely I will be a bit more free at work today so hopefully I'll contribute more. But this is what I got so far: 1. Icemac vs Gmarshall. I don't think either of them is scum, and here is why: Gmarshall did play a bit different in Mafia 36, but the reason for that was, he was picked Bodyguard on day one. Which means that his place was safe, at least for the first few days. Nobdy was going to lynch him, even if several people would FoS him, which gives one a nice, safe place in the game. In this game, however, he does not have that advantage, so I think it's somewhat normal that he's a bit more touchy, a bit more aggressive, but at least he's trying to provide decent information and come up with a somewhat-well-though-out-plan. Basically, the only problem with his plan is that a bunch of the cells could be mafia-infested, but that can also work to town's advantage if the greens in the circle can figure out that the red is trying to play them. As far as nobody claims early, it should be ok, IMO. Besides, like LSB said, you can't really STOP any kind of town circle as long as PMs are allowed, so there's no reason I can think of to try to stop town this. At best, this is a more "imposed" cell that any player can embrace or ignore. I don't think it can be considered scummish. Icemac, on the other hand, is a smurf, so I can't know what he's usually like, but I'm guessing that he played with us before, and that's why he's being overly aggressive in some instances. I don't think that makes him scum though, especially if he played in Mafia 36 and he's got an idea about what GM "should play like", and isn't. If he didn't play with us before, he might just be a tad on the aggressive side by nature. I don't see why this is considered a bad thing, and I don't see why it's a reason to vote for him. To me, most of the things he said come out as being townish. Either way, it's not really a reason go wagon him no matter how you look at it, and I'm quite suspicious of the players that ganged him so fast. 2. LSB vs. Annul These are both quite experienced players, so I don't think you could get a "read" out of either of them. But it is reminiscent of the way LSB started out Harry Potter Mafia (when we were mafia together), and he was attacking RoL all over. Which lead to both of them being lynched and clearing up DrH of accusation for quite some time. Now I'm not saying LSB is doing this, I'm saying that EITHER of them could be doing this. Or they can both be town or both mafias. I know this is inconclusive, but my "bottom line" would be... don't go for either of them until there's further proof. If you don't know what I'm talking about, go read through the first two days of HP mafia. 3. Ser Aspi This is the most suspicious player to me so far, mostly based on one post: On February 24 2011 12:48 Ser Aspi wrote: cute way to sidetrack the debate off your scummy play. "HE POSTED LOGIC SMURFFFFF AHHHHH IGNORE ME" Sorry if I forgot about tl mafia and been busy playing at epicmafia and mafiascum for the past year. Naturally you don't actually respond to what I said. Even more interesting, a smurf would be someone more knowledgeable than a new player. For you to think that I am a smurf immediately means that you felt what I said had merit. Thus that means you know better, which means you are scum bullshiting. vote## Annul Im gonna knock you off your broomstick boy This is weird, really weird. Mostly because it came RIGHT after LSB made some decent points against Annul. If he wanted to vote for Annul he'd have had a lot of damn good reasons by just "believing" LSB's analysis. But instead he goes and basically OMGUS-votes Annul. Why on earth would you do something like that? Now, I'm not saying he's not right about the smurf/experienced thing on Annul, but he basically voted for him because Annul pointed him out for being a smurf, and he openly admitted that. That's most fishy to me, out of everything I read so far. The second suspect would be Jackal, but I doubt it's a good idea to lynch him over just two posts (like Ser Aspi too, actually). I don't find it odd that he's not being overly aggressive as usual, because it's very early in the game, but I do find it odd that he made the remark about the PM. That does seem a bit off-character. That being said, I don't have any idea of who to vote for actually, at least not yet. But I do know one thing: If Annul and/or LSB are not scum, they'll probably be taken out pretty early in the game, so I don't think it's smart for town to lynch either of them (especially not LSB, since he seems to be a target for Mafia early on when he's red, and if he IS mafia, then he has a pretty pro-town way of playing it, so I think it's safe either way). | ||
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gryffindor
United States524 Posts
Both address me I'm loving this Both of you want me to explain my confirmation idea, and Barundar, you will not be forced to claim or anything... How can mafia fake a PM received from a moderator to a doctor saying you protected successfully, or that they are such and such role... We can get confirmation very easily. Cubedin, We don't have to focus on creating one big cell all at once, we would want to only have 1 person knowing everything, actually. The person would likely be killed, unless there are multiple confirmations in the same night. We don't have to really do any of this, scumhunting is completely fine. Foolishness mentioned he would be fine voting Jackal in PM with me, and I can see the train of thought, but I would rather lynch someone through my proper sleuthery in finding tells that they have made, such as the associative tells between GMarshal and Annul that I found, which is enough for me to be happy with where my vote is. Couple that with the fact that both have had wishy-washy voting/pushing, and with the incrimination of icemac, and I'd be surprised if two out of three weren't scum. Foolishness, however, disagrees with me on this. His loss!  | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On February 24 2011 18:33 Barundar wrote: Morning all, as promised I’ve read up and here is my contribution. As a fair warning it’s a wall of text, first is my general comments on the thread so far, last is my analysis. First off, goddammit GMarshal, leaking my top suspect. Can’t you hold it in for 1 night? I wanted to see if he would actually post in the evening as he promised, but the weak FoS gave him a chance to defend himself before I got around to post. Well, at least it proved that Jackal58 has great reaction time, despite not talking much.My thoughts on the thread so far: GMarshals plan is a lot like what RoL has recommended for PM’s, pick out some random people from the list and start talking to them. While you can’t trust them, you get more to analyse, and it’s easier to catch a mafia slipping up if you have more opinions from them. Just be careful with experienced players, and treat your partners like they are scum. If I was on a scumteam, I would tell my inexperienced teammates to stay out of PM land. Gryffindor proposes a really silly (in lack of a better word) plan, there is no way of finding guaranteed innocents with GF and framer around, and even if one such could be found, all mafia has to do is gain his trust and make him spill, =dead blues. The only benefit of mass claim to a confirmed townie is the coordination of medic protection and DT checks. It won’t magicly find mafia amongst the non claimers, or identify fake claims. What gryffindor does do is post a lot, he promotes activity, and he is actually scumhunting. I don’t give much for his lists, but so far his impact has been positive on the town, as long as people don’t stop thinking for themselves. Regarding annul, you should keep in mind that he opposed GMarshals plan before he (allegedly) got his role PM. Hence I would be very careful with lynching him just for opposing that alone. Other than that agree with Foolishness’ comment, it would be funny if LSB got revenge on annul. Why has a decent case on icemac, but not certain if icemac is aggressive townie or mafia. Analysis of Jackal58 This post is COMPLETELY out of the ordinary for Jackal. Jackal’s playstyle as town consist of independent opinions, with a tendency to tunnel. His posting style is stubborn and humorous. He rarely posts long posts, and in general just give short statements, but often posts a lot. When he finds scum, he will make it clear for everyone, state his reasons, and keep up pressure on the person. Being stubborn he is very difficult to convince otherwise, once he has found his target(s). In the above post he differs from his usual play as town in a number of ways. First of all he gives multiple excuses as to his posting straight away. This is unlike his other games, even in his first game in mafia xxxv he didn’t feel the need to excuse his inexperience without being called out for it. As I said above, Jackal is an independent player, he doesn’t care much if people accuse him, town yells at him or if the things he sais comes off in the wrong way. Him apologising like this upfront, without anyone even calling him out is unusual. If you a read Ver’s guide to improving at mafia, it’s not natural for a green mindset to apologise and appear useless, since it will make other players pay less attention to what they have to say. It is however entirely within the mindset of a mafia, who just want to make a post noone cares about, and let the town fight with itself instead. He apologies for posting less, but in normal games his many first posts are just one liners, this one is a lengthy one for him. By sheer size it should be an improvement for him, but what does it really contain? His thoughts are thoroughly undecided. Why even comment then? If this is the reason he felt the need to add to the conversation, then I sincerely expected more. Jackal as town has very strong opinions, and this is just neutral mentioning – he doesn’t improve the plan, he just questions it. Posting without contributing. A weak FoS with a relevant question. On one hand it is sort of an opinion, on the other hand it has been posted before. In Guts and Glory he simply quoted Amber[light]’s post and commented “this post ems of scummyness”. Weak FoS isn’t typical Jackal, even if I wouldn’t rule it out. It’s not much to warrant a post like that from him though. He promises to post more in the evening. I was holding this analysis back to see if he actually would. As I said in the beginning, this got ruined, but he didn’t post until he got mentioned, and it still proved his reaction time was good. Note that Jackal has been posting from work in his other games, and it hasn’t stopped him from being active. Other suspicious post: Sharp reaction to getting PM’ed. Jackal had no problem PM’ing with me in mafia xxxv. ##Vote Jackal58 Actually my style is identical to every other game I've played. Not one of them has me aggressively tunneling anybody in the first day or two. I don't do that until I get a line on somebody. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
I think he's nuts ##VOTE: gryffindor | ||
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Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
@gryffindor: You aren't suggesting the medic claiming to anyone but the guy he saved, right? In case we get a medic save, and it can be ruled out it was a vigi shot then you most likely have a townie indeed. But we can take that when it happens? Setup has quite a few gimmicks to counter "follow the detective" strategies. Guess it's nice to hear Foolishness is suspecious of Jackal58 as well. @Jackal58: You messed up in your first post. If you are town you defend yourself now. Not one of them has me aggressively tunneling anybody in the first day or two. Wrong, in guts and glory you settled on Amber[light] on first day, and GGQ before first lynch. | ||
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gryffindor
United States524 Posts
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gryffindor
United States524 Posts
Jackal, your entrance into the game was your exit for me. I don't like being voted by a relative inactive, but I like it even less when said vote comes with an insult. Good riddance. | ||
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gryffindor
United States524 Posts
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On February 24 2011 19:56 Barundar wrote: @cubedin: You post alot but you don't really have anything to add. Your comments on my case was pretty light. That's because I think your case against him is pretty light. You're basically picking on the fact that he said he's not gonna post much. I know that that somewhat differs from his "usual" play, but we're just people, maybe he actually doesn't have time to post much. Heck, I said pretty much the same thing. I was busy so I couldn't post much. I don't see how that makes him scum. The FoS was a simple FoS, and the PM comment, I already said I find a bit suspicious, but that's about it. You can't really say that he's playing differently after half a day, come on, that's absurd. That kind of argument should come in after at least a few 'normal' days. And saying that I post a lot but don't have anything to add is somewhat insulting: I explained why GM is not to be looked at as scum just for that. I explained what I think about both newcomers/smurfs that were voted for. I explained what I think about LSB vs Annul and I drew attention to HP mafia where an argument like that worked very well for mafia, and why it should be avoided. I drew attention to the one post in this thread that seemed really suspicious to me. I gave my thoughts on Jackal's case. And you're sweeping that under the rug as being "lot of talk about nothing"? I read the thread and I expressed my opinions regarding the pressing issues of the town at this moment. What did you expect me to talk about? Lurkers? I'm ok with taking down lurkers as well. Always have been. | ||
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Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
It's true that Jackal hasn't posted much, and that his first post is by far the substantive part of my argument. But that is beceause that was where he messed up. Mafia aren't going to be suspecious all the way, mafia can contribute or share when they feel it furthers their cause. But his first post set off all the alarms, it contains multiple apologies for not only time, also for "new players" in the game, and it promises more, that wasn't delivered. I think this is a way better case than random voting inactives, or the most active posters so far, that has gotten into a fight. But I'm not stopping you from doing your own scumhunting. | ||
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