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On February 03 2011 06:17 chaoser wrote:
It's not a dumb move...We get a lot of info from the lynch. The point of being town isn't to live, it's to help town win. You blame town for being stupid but you should blame yourself because you are inactive day one, you didn't even vote. If anything, you should be mod killed and issued a warning. Stop bitching if you're green and help the town.
He is helping the town. If he is green and honestly believes I am mafia then there is no reason for him not to tunnel vision on me and try to get me lynched. That's actually the right thing to do. I lost confidence in him being mafia because he seemed less interested in making himself look innocent than he did in making me look like mafia. That's pro-town play.
I look forward to reading the made up inconsistencies in my posting. Not that changing your mind is not the same as an inconsitency. A lot of players get criticized or called scummy for changing their minds and opinions and TL towns have to stop doing that.
The other thing we have to stop doing is "assume that if A flips green whoever accused him of being mafia is red" 99/100 times they're both green.
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On February 03 2011 04:49 shannn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 04:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 03 2011 03:43 shannn wrote:On February 03 2011 03:19 chaoser wrote:On February 03 2011 03:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 03 2011 03:09 chaoser wrote:
Bad town play, whether they are mafia or not, should be punished. The fact of the matter is, we don't know if Kenpachi is playing badly as town or if he's mafia, regardless of how he acted in previous games. I'm going to stick my vote on him. If we excuse his play as "just a bad townie" then we screw ourselves over the day he's actually a mafia.
As for the clues, I think when it comes down to it, it's between Cubed and Dr.H. Between the two of them, I'd rather lynch Dr.H cause if he's red then we have a connection between him and Kenpachi; plus i get to feel smart about figuring out their plan of bussing Jackal on day 1. there is no connection between me and kenpachi i just dont want to lynch him unless a clue points at him why cant you understand what im saying when i mean analysis is inconclusive in light of how terrible he is. his play in this game is directly in line with town play. its like lynching bill murray because he spammed or lynching NB for asking a dumb question. also "lynching for information" is a scum play anyway. You look worse and worse. Condescending play is condescending. Something mafia would pull when they're in a bind. There's no need for it if you're town. I've done it before as mafia, and I've seen others do it as well. When Cubein flips green, you do realize you're on the chopping block right? If he flips red, well mafia should just give up at that point since it's an almost full town. Or DrH and Cubed are both green or red which is still unlikely but it can happen. In any case the best way to move forward today is if we lynch either of those 2. Like you also said, if Cubed does flip green then it's most likely that the other is red and in which Kenpachi is automatically solved as well. So by going by this logic and my analysis of Cubed and DrH and the circumstances we're in I'm voting against Cubed. ##Vote CubEdIn wtf these assumptions are terrible why is it "unlikely" that both me and cubedin are green? that's stupid. why does knowing my alignment have anything to do with kenpachi? i don't really understand why anyone would think any of these things. So by reading your reply it's smart to actually say that both of you are red? I don't know your role. Your discussion between Cubed and you might as well be a plot to make certain that one of you won't be suspected as mafia but there might as well be a scenario that that the clues point to someone else and you 2 are so concentrated on each other that people have missed the key theme of the clues of LSB hence 2 greens could also be possible. As for knowing your alignment with Kenpachi it's simple. You agree that Kenpachi is awful as town with chaoser but I as non experienced player do not know this and neither does chaoser seeing upon his comments. You cannot base someone's role on his past because people can just as well use this to camouflage his role in the future. You can use this knowledge as mafia (if you were) and just say he's stupid and always acts like this. Hence the reasoning of mine that Kenpachi is tied with your role. It doesn't mean it will be for certain but atleast for a high probability that what you think about Kenpachi is right if you are town. If you aren't town then everything you said/defended people means they're an ally of you. Besides I didn't vote on you but the reaction on your part makes me think I should reconsider. But for now I'll stick with Cubed. You said it yourself. He isn't showing any signs of mafia and if you were you'd act to it but we don't know what your role is hence we cannot go by your words. Do you understand my reasoning now?
Alright I wanted to respond to this earlier but I had class. I'd like it if everyone carefully read this and thought about this (what I'm going to say.)
1. Yes, it is reasonable that both CubEdIn and myself are red. It's unlikely though. This means I already bussed Jackal and am now bussing CubEdIn. I like using the bus but that's just too risky. I like to play really risky styles as mafia but that's too much. It's not an impossibility. I am not "innocent" if CubEdIn is red. It looks good for me but it is not proof. The only proof is death in this game.
2. Yes you cannot base someones role on their past. That's my point. I'm saying Kenpachi's posts are not "pro-town" or "pro-scum". I can not read them at all. They're inconclusive. Let's look at the most obvious example of bad play, NB.
In every game as town NB contributes nothing to the discussion. He just asks questions, says "oh im gonna read this and put my thoughts later ok" and things like this. This looks wishy washy, like he's making excuses for inactivity. He does this as town because he is bad, doesn't or can't analyse posts, etc.
In every game as mafia NB does the exact same thing. While it is very noticeable when Ace contributes bad/fake analysis, distracts town, acts wishy washy, jumps on easy bandwagons it isn't the same for Kenpachi. Kenpachi will do that as town and he will do it as mafia. My opinion on his posts is inconclusive. I don't want to lynch him because it's just a coinflip.
The other idea is that if Chaoser says "Player X is really scummy" and I say "No they aren't" then that is the same as a scum defense. That isn't a very strong connection to him. Town players defend other town players constantly and that sort of thing is only worth talking about after the fact.
If Chaoser defends others, I don't really care until he's dead and i know his role. If he's mafia THEN that becomes important.
But I really don't know what to say. I keep saying it but no one listens. There is little point in analysing kenpachi's post behavior right now because this is how he plays across the board early on in the game. Look at him in Salem Mafia Day 2 or Pokemafia. It's the same shit and he was town both times. Maybe some of the behaviors are "scummy" when applied to a large player group but they don't really apply to him. That's just the way it is. Until clues point at him, I wouldn't even consider lynching him. Because post analysis is LOST on players like Kenpachi and Coagulation and NB. We got Coag in Insane Mafia because he was DT checked. Then I was able to figure out Pandain was mafia too but town let him live for some reason.
Also this is not true that mafia only defend mafia. Honestly, it's most common that mafia IGNORE other mafia completely. Or even attack other mafia aggressively to stage disagreement. I see mafia attackin eachother or ignoring eachother more often than I see them defending.
Go read my Experimental Mini Mafia game to see that happen. Read Salem Mafia early game and see how mafia just avoid talking to each other altogether and never refer to eachother by name in posts. It is extremely rare that you see this kind of early comradarie. If Kenpachi was mafia and I was mafia it would be retarded for him to come forth with this worship of me calling me his favorite poster or whatever.
It would be smart if he was mafia/i'm town, since if he died the remaining mafia could push suspicion on me easily. Mafia are looking for opportunities to turn a bad lynch into a worse one or a good lynch into one that hurts the town. Mafia defend and attach themselves to townies to throw off direction in the case of a lynch. All that speculation you and chaoser are doing is pure pure WIFOM. It has nothing to do with goals, with contributions, or anything that matters.
Kenpachi is, unfortunately, exempt from that kind of analysis because he doesn't contribute anything even if he is town and just spams mindlessly. That's the player that Kenpachi is and ignoring that is gonna result in another easy green lynch for the mafia. That's just the way it is. Has anyone else played in a game where town lynched green Kenpachi because he posted the same sort of things? Am I the only one with any sort of memory? It seems to me like Chaosers memory is built around supporting his case which is scummy.
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On February 03 2011 10:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 04:49 shannn wrote:On February 03 2011 04:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 03 2011 03:43 shannn wrote:On February 03 2011 03:19 chaoser wrote:On February 03 2011 03:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 03 2011 03:09 chaoser wrote:
Bad town play, whether they are mafia or not, should be punished. The fact of the matter is, we don't know if Kenpachi is playing badly as town or if he's mafia, regardless of how he acted in previous games. I'm going to stick my vote on him. If we excuse his play as "just a bad townie" then we screw ourselves over the day he's actually a mafia.
As for the clues, I think when it comes down to it, it's between Cubed and Dr.H. Between the two of them, I'd rather lynch Dr.H cause if he's red then we have a connection between him and Kenpachi; plus i get to feel smart about figuring out their plan of bussing Jackal on day 1. there is no connection between me and kenpachi i just dont want to lynch him unless a clue points at him why cant you understand what im saying when i mean analysis is inconclusive in light of how terrible he is. his play in this game is directly in line with town play. its like lynching bill murray because he spammed or lynching NB for asking a dumb question. also "lynching for information" is a scum play anyway. You look worse and worse. Condescending play is condescending. Something mafia would pull when they're in a bind. There's no need for it if you're town. I've done it before as mafia, and I've seen others do it as well. When Cubein flips green, you do realize you're on the chopping block right? If he flips red, well mafia should just give up at that point since it's an almost full town. Or DrH and Cubed are both green or red which is still unlikely but it can happen. In any case the best way to move forward today is if we lynch either of those 2. Like you also said, if Cubed does flip green then it's most likely that the other is red and in which Kenpachi is automatically solved as well. So by going by this logic and my analysis of Cubed and DrH and the circumstances we're in I'm voting against Cubed. ##Vote CubEdIn wtf these assumptions are terrible why is it "unlikely" that both me and cubedin are green? that's stupid. why does knowing my alignment have anything to do with kenpachi? i don't really understand why anyone would think any of these things. So by reading your reply it's smart to actually say that both of you are red? I don't know your role. Your discussion between Cubed and you might as well be a plot to make certain that one of you won't be suspected as mafia but there might as well be a scenario that that the clues point to someone else and you 2 are so concentrated on each other that people have missed the key theme of the clues of LSB hence 2 greens could also be possible. As for knowing your alignment with Kenpachi it's simple. You agree that Kenpachi is awful as town with chaoser but I as non experienced player do not know this and neither does chaoser seeing upon his comments. You cannot base someone's role on his past because people can just as well use this to camouflage his role in the future. You can use this knowledge as mafia (if you were) and just say he's stupid and always acts like this. Hence the reasoning of mine that Kenpachi is tied with your role. It doesn't mean it will be for certain but atleast for a high probability that what you think about Kenpachi is right if you are town. If you aren't town then everything you said/defended people means they're an ally of you. Besides I didn't vote on you but the reaction on your part makes me think I should reconsider. But for now I'll stick with Cubed. You said it yourself. He isn't showing any signs of mafia and if you were you'd act to it but we don't know what your role is hence we cannot go by your words. Do you understand my reasoning now? Alright I wanted to respond to this earlier but I had class. I'd like it if everyone carefully read this and thought about this (what I'm going to say.) 1. Yes, it is reasonable that both CubEdIn and myself are red. It's unlikely though. This means I already bussed Jackal and am now bussing CubEdIn. I like using the bus but that's just too risky. I like to play really risky styles as mafia but that's too much. It's not an impossibility. I am not "innocent" if CubEdIn is red. It looks good for me but it is not proof. The only proof is death in this game. 2. Yes you cannot base someones role on their past. That's my point. I'm saying Kenpachi's posts are not "pro-town" or "pro-scum". I can not read them at all. They're inconclusive. Let's look at the most obvious example of bad play, NB. In every game as town NB contributes nothing to the discussion. He just asks questions, says "oh im gonna read this and put my thoughts later ok" and things like this. This looks wishy washy, like he's making excuses for inactivity. He does this as town because he is bad, doesn't or can't analyse posts, etc. In every game as mafia NB does the exact same thing. While it is very noticeable when Ace contributes bad/fake analysis, distracts town, acts wishy washy, jumps on easy bandwagons it isn't the same for Kenpachi. Kenpachi will do that as town and he will do it as mafia. My opinion on his posts is inconclusive. I don't want to lynch him because it's just a coinflip. The other idea is that if Chaoser says "Player X is really scummy" and I say "No they aren't" then that is the same as a scum defense. That isn't a very strong connection to him. Town players defend other town players constantly and that sort of thing is only worth talking about after the fact. If Chaoser defends others, I don't really care until he's dead and i know his role. If he's mafia THEN that becomes important. But I really don't know what to say. I keep saying it but no one listens. There is little point in analysing kenpachi's post behavior right now because this is how he plays across the board early on in the game. Look at him in Salem Mafia Day 2 or Pokemafia. It's the same shit and he was town both times. Maybe some of the behaviors are "scummy" when applied to a large player group but they don't really apply to him. That's just the way it is. Until clues point at him, I wouldn't even consider lynching him. Because post analysis is LOST on players like Kenpachi and Coagulation and NB. We got Coag in Insane Mafia because he was DT checked. Then I was able to figure out Pandain was mafia too but town let him live for some reason. Also this is not true that mafia only defend mafia. Honestly, it's most common that mafia IGNORE other mafia completely. Or even attack other mafia aggressively to stage disagreement. I see mafia attackin eachother or ignoring eachother more often than I see them defending. Go read my Experimental Mini Mafia game to see that happen. Read Salem Mafia early game and see how mafia just avoid talking to each other altogether and never refer to eachother by name in posts. It is extremely rare that you see this kind of early comradarie. If Kenpachi was mafia and I was mafia it would be retarded for him to come forth with this worship of me calling me his favorite poster or whatever. It would be smart if he was mafia/i'm town, since if he died the remaining mafia could push suspicion on me easily. Mafia are looking for opportunities to turn a bad lynch into a worse one or a good lynch into one that hurts the town. Mafia defend and attach themselves to townies to throw off direction in the case of a lynch. All that speculation you and chaoser are doing is pure pure WIFOM. It has nothing to do with goals, with contributions, or anything that matters. Kenpachi is, unfortunately, exempt from that kind of analysis because he doesn't contribute anything even if he is town and just spams mindlessly. That's the player that Kenpachi is and ignoring that is gonna result in another easy green lynch for the mafia. That's just the way it is. Has anyone else played in a game where town lynched green Kenpachi because he posted the same sort of things? Am I the only one with any sort of memory? It seems to me like Chaosers memory is built around supporting his case which is scummy.
Yes I know what you're getting at. I am ignoring Kenpachi. I'm going with clues now and that's Cubed. You still think Cubed is mafia just basing on clues?
You changed your mind based off of chaoser's post behavior which is fine by me. You have the experience to do that but I don't. So I can't trust either of you what both of you're saying. I can only continue where I was which is basing my opinion by clues and if I make a mistake I'll have to correct myself next time to learn from that.
Chaoser's play does seem scummy now. He has voted for Cubed while at first he went for Kenpachi. He might be just joining the bandwagon to avoid suspicion combined with the fact that he said if cube flips green then flip me which makes it WIFOM if cube flips red it would make Chaoser seem green which is still not conclusive like you pointed out which is where the danger lies atm.
Especially when I said if Cubed is red then you and Kenpachi are green and the other way around too and he switched votes after that which makes me think that if Cubed is red then Chaoser needs to get analyzed more because of his previous actions and post behavior.
In any case we'll only know what Cubed is which will be conclusive and the rest not. So any statements about X is red then Y is not etc will have to be ignored by everyone.
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Chaoser's play does seem scummy now. He has voted for Cubed while at first he went for Kenpachi. He might be just joining the bandwagon to avoid suspicion combined with the fact that he said if cube flips green then flip me which makes it WIFOM if cube flips red it would make Chaoser seem green which is still not conclusive like you pointed out which is where the danger lies atm.
If Cubedin is red then mafia will have already lost. If i was mafia I'd just give up. Two mafia down on the first two days with more clues along the way? GG. If Cubedin is green, which I think he is, then we get info. How you use that info is up to you. I'm not bandwagoning anything, He was pretty much going to be lynched anyway. I just agreed with your logic that he should be lynched today and that should be the focus of the day. I was going to go on more about Kenpachi but your post on how we'll find out more made me switch on to Kenpachi. i'm merely making my vote the same as what I think/say. If I was mafia, why would I need to switch from anything besides red to green? You don't need to think i'm green at all. you just need to see that Dr. H pushed hard for the cubedin lynch and then switched last minute to me for no reason, he doesn't have a great puch for me, he doesn't try to convince others to vote for me even though i'm "more scummy now than Cubedin". How does that make sense?
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And like I said, you can lynch me the next day if you want and truly believe I'm scum. As long as town wins the game, I'd gladly die for it.
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Also, where has pandain been all day? He just straight up disappeared, did he even vote?
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Cub3din is being lynched right?
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Everyone voted.
Everyone except kenpachi(chaoser)/cubed(drh)/drh(chaoser) voted for cubed.
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On February 03 2011 11:44 shannn wrote:
Everyone voted.
Everyone except kenpachi(chaoser)/cubed(drh)/drh(chaoser) voted for cubed.
I voted for Cubedin, don't know what you're talking about. I voted for Kenpachi before and I still think he's mafia but getting cubedin lynched gives town info to help them make the decision/see that kenpachi/drh is mafia so I voted for him.
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On February 03 2011 11:47 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 11:44 shannn wrote:
Everyone voted.
Everyone except kenpachi(chaoser)/cubed(drh)/drh(chaoser) voted for cubed. I voted for Cubedin, don't know what you're talking about. I voted for Kenpachi before and I still think he's mafia but getting cubedin lynched gives town info to help them make the decision/see that kenpachi/drh is mafia so I voted for him.
You fail to read chaoser. Your name mentioned there in my post means those guys voted on you.
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On February 02 2011 08:19 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 05:53 CubEdIn wrote:
I didn't participate at all during day one, I didn't even vote and risked being Mod-killed, even though I was online, because I was simply too busy and forgot I was playing in this.
. ???? U posted once after the game started talking about how clues could relate to Raiden. + Show Spoiler +On January 29 2011 21:59 CubEdIn wrote:
Hi everyone.
First of all, the Raiden reference. I don't see how it connects to the body disappearances. If you mean the ability to teleport, Raiden has the ability to teleport himself, not other things (at least in the games and movies, but I guess it can be interpreted).
Second of all, I got Kenpachi covered, I watched bleach and I liked the character. A few main traits are:
- loves battle, lives for it, but is fair, would not kill people with arrows or a wall
- uses his sword and that's about it
- is really fast and really really powerful, especially when he removes his eye-patch
- has a skewed view on honor, I can't really explain this, but basically he'll follow "honor" rules, but doesn't respect many things in general.
Also, if he would be killing something, there would be A LOT of blood around.
I did a quick look at the profiles and Gaara seems to be the strongest clue (with the crushing and sand and all), but I didn't have time to carefully analyze all of them yet.
Will be back in the evening for more hunting.
Sort of lethargic here, I'll try to post an analysis on Cubed in shortly. Originally I thought he was town, but looking over his posts his play reminds me of mine in Insane mafia, where even if my logic was pretty bad I would stick to it.
What happened to this Pandain? You didn't even vote. Saying it's lethargic here and not contributing yourself. Where's your usual FoSing self??
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On February 03 2011 11:48 shannn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 11:47 chaoser wrote:On February 03 2011 11:44 shannn wrote:
Everyone voted.
Everyone except kenpachi(chaoser)/cubed(drh)/drh(chaoser) voted for cubed. I voted for Cubedin, don't know what you're talking about. I voted for Kenpachi before and I still think he's mafia but getting cubedin lynched gives town info to help them make the decision/see that kenpachi/drh is mafia so I voted for him. You fail to read chaoser. Your name mentioned there in my post means those guys voted on you.
ah, my bad, read it wrong. And pandain didn't vote at all.
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On February 03 2011 11:51 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 11:48 shannn wrote:On February 03 2011 11:47 chaoser wrote:On February 03 2011 11:44 shannn wrote:
Everyone voted.
Everyone except kenpachi(chaoser)/cubed(drh)/drh(chaoser) voted for cubed. I voted for Cubedin, don't know what you're talking about. I voted for Kenpachi before and I still think he's mafia but getting cubedin lynched gives town info to help them make the decision/see that kenpachi/drh is mafia so I voted for him. You fail to read chaoser. Your name mentioned there in my post means those guys voted on you. ah, my bad, read it wrong. And pandain didn't vote at all.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187599¤tpage=15#296
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Man, I'm suckin it up lol. my bad.
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Well I'm too busy to do a votecount, so I'll take your word for it
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Night 2
Failure
CubEdIn the townie has been lynched
Congratulations to SouthRawrea for figuring out the clues.
Day starts in 24 hours
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On February 03 2011 11:55 LSB wrote:
Well I'm too busy to do a votecount, so I'll take your word for it
Cubedin is the one being lynched. it's 6 votes for him and 2 for chaoser and 1 for DrH.
CubedIn:
- me
- chaoser
- node
- Pandain
- Gmarshall
- darmousseh
Chaoser:
- Kenpachi
- DrH
DrH:
- CubedIn
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And that sux about cubed lol.
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Thanks for the votecount! And I added an image so the night post looks pretty
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.blogcdn.com/news.bigdownload.com/media/2009/08/stepmania1.jpg)
