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On December 28 2010 05:51 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. Everyone has to point fingers. Even mafia point fingers at their own for weak posting or inactivity, but they will rarely push for a lynch. It should be our job as town to make sure that all of the necessary people are brought into the spotlight and to lynch those we find lacking.
As posted above, I think pointing finger is good but a list is needed because pointing finger is not enough. Also, the list thing is most useful in day1 since that is the day with the least information. After day1, I suppose that the lynch will be based on behavior analysis like other games.
Also, I want to ask Pandain to stop voting at random people to pressure them to talk. If we are also pressuring random inactive, then the same person must not be the one pointing fingers.
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I am following debates between Annul and LSB. There are something I don't get.
Annul's conclusion in his first post about why LSB should be lynched.
in conclusion, LSB has been making pure nonposts and/or pure informative posts without analysis, with the two exceptions being his insistence on the "kill inactives" theme and his defenses of pandain and mr. wiggles. yet he has like 30 posts up while saying almost absolutely nothing.
my vote is on LSB now.
Annul, your conclusion for lynching LSB is because he have about 30 posts. All 30 posts, except 2, are posts that means nothing and pure informative posts without analysis?
LSB, are your reasons for lynching Annul in page 17?
-1. Giant wall of text that pretends to be contributing
-2. He doesn't want to do anything about inactives
-3. He makes a faulty analysis that is forced
-4. Annul posts without brining anything new
I will say what I think of this later, but I want to get these two points straight.
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I also think that Annul's initial post about LSB being mafia is illogically since the town will definitely not lynch a veteran like LSB because he have some meaningless posts. LSB actually have way more than 2 good posts before annul's accusation.
Annul's second reason on p.18
insistence on going after inactives instead of scumhunting. it would be very easy for a mafia to know his team all happen to be active and then say "hey kill inactives over all else EVEN IF scummy targets exist
Well, we know that there is a lot of inactive in this game. I also assume there must a some mafia inactive in this game so LSB going after inactive doesn't say much about him being scum.
What I don't understand is why Annul accused LSB without good evidence why LSB is mafia.
-I don't think Annul accuse LSB to save Pandain because the bandwagon on Pandain is a joke and there is no good reason to lynch pandain.
-LSB also mentioned that Annul do the analysis on LSB to make himself look good by using it as a reference that he did lengthy analysis. But LSB also say that annul want his post to be ignored. I have to question why would annul choose LSB to accuse if he want his post to be ignored. It makes no sense. If annul want his post to be ignore, he could have analyze someone other than LSB, because pointing finger at LSB would certainly result in some lengthy responses that annul can't slip by.
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I am just going to briefly address node's analysis on me because I need to say my position on the more important LSB vs. Annul case.
In the beginning of the game, I focus heavily on the framer role because that is the only difference in this game than the other 5 mafia games I played in the past. With nothing else to talk about, why not address how the framer role will affect the game and how should dts and vigs play differently.
I still stay by my opinion that dts should never check the posters like LSB or Annul because they are the best target to be framed.
Vigs can only shoot after night 2 and their shot are not wasted if stack. It really depend on if we need the extra kill at that time which a lot of mafia game need at that time. Remember the excuse of "I am not mafia, dt can check me and prove it" will probably not work in time game.
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Before addressing LSB's alignment, I am pretty sure that Annul is not mafia.
Annul's first analysis on LSB being mafia is on based on the fact that LSB had many bad/meaningless posts. If you look at posts prior, there are discussions but there are also spamming from others. If Annul is mafia and they want LSB dead, then why would they use not very good reason like spamming as their main reason to lynch LSB.
Annul also gave out another reason on p. 18
his insistence on going after inactives instead of scumhunting. it would be very easy for a mafia to know his team all happen to be active and then say "hey kill inactives over all else EVEN IF scummy targets exist
In this game, there are many inactives. I do not think that there is no inactive in mafia's team. Annul is right about scumhunting is better than inactives pressuring because scumhunting provides reason for lynches. Pressuring inactives is not as good because the main reason for it is we don't have to deal with inactive town in the future. I definitely favor killing mafia now over having a better composed town in the future.
LSB also pointed out that Annul is posting the analyze on him to be used as a reference later to make himself look good and Annul really want to slip by with his post.
If Annul really want to slip by, then why would he let LSB know that he will be posting an analysis on LSB 1 minute after LSB had just posted?
If Annul want to slip by, then why would he choose LSB to analyze if he don't want any respond back? Annul would be better off if he choose to analyze a weaker player if he just want to make a long post to make himself look good.
Now in LSB's case, it is really hard to find flaws in him because he is such a careful player.
One reason that I find LSB scummy if that he is saying he is a blue when he is in big danger of being lynched. This seems to be happen in every game when a mafia is being lynched. I don't remember a game I played where a mafia is being lynched and he claims as vanilla townie.
I don't have any reason that LSB is being mafia as of now. I'll post more if I find any after I reread some posts. LSB said he can prove his innocence on day3, but this is also an excuse I seen many mafia who are being lynch used. We also can not easily clear LSB with a dt check.
I will vote LSB, base on the fact that I don't see better lynch. Also by lynching LSB, we do get some information on other posters based on their stand points.
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On December 29 2010 05:13 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 05:11 LunarDestiny wrote:
I don't have any reason that LSB is being mafia as of now. I'll post more if I find any after I reread some posts. LSB said he can prove his innocence on day3, but this is also an excuse I seen many mafia who are being lynch used. Can you post a link for me?
I remember I seen them before but can you disprove by showing games where an active mafia is lynched on day1 and they did not say they can prove their innocence. In addition, find a game where a mafia being lynched and they claim vanilla townie.
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I was about to change my vote from LSB because I don't find good evidence against him.
But wtf Pandain.
i am 99% sure he's mafia, but there's really no harm in waiting just one night just to be 100% sure.
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I was sick so I was not posting, I did refresh the thread to see want happened on night 1 though...
I didn't switch my vote off of LSB even I said I don't see good evidence of LSB being mafia is because the people voting for LSB are mostly experience players and people voting for Brocket are mostly newer players except LSB. At that time, I don't believe that mafia are stacked with those experience players who are voting to lynch LSB so I assume at least there was not a huge mafia bandwagon to save LSB. I was also afraid of the mass mafia bandwagon voting for a lurker like Brocket in order the save LSB. This is the reason I didn't switch my vote.
I don't believe that Insanious is mafia. Insanious was super active throughout later part of day1 to explain why lynching LSB is a bad idea. He was still giving out explanation when the vote was LSB 10 and Brocket 8. I like to think that LSB is like a cake that the mafia really want to have. It would be stupid for a mafia to save LSB to make himself look good. Also, since mafia know LSB is not red, they know it is likely that LSB is a Blue like he claimed. This is another reason why mafia don't want to save LSB just to make one of them look good.
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Also, I forgot to propose Double Lynch.
With 4 highly experience town died already, we really need to take advantage of double lynch. I fear that more experience town will die on night 2. I don't want double lynch to benefit the mafia in the late game when there is an inactive, indecisive town.
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The double lynch is for day3. It will be helpful when dt a checked a mafia and we have an extra lynch to be used for another suspects.
We have 2 double lynch total in the game. As the game continues, we will get more information on who to lynch. But we are too many losing experience players too soon. Mafia will have an easier time to defer lynch when we have an inactive, indecisive town.
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On December 31 2010 04:24 Pandain wrote:
GGQ
4. Meapak_Ziphh
5. Brocket
6. TheMango
7. Mr.Zergling
8. why
15. ShoCkeyy
17. ilovejonn
19. Orgolove
23. GeorgeClooney
24. d3_crescentia
25. Tevo
27. Soulfire
29. Ryuu314 DarthThienAn
30. ~OpZ~
These are the people who need to contribute more. Lyching Insanious is a horrible idea. For one, why would mafia redirect a lynch away from a blue. Now, gaining town cred is important, but why would Insanious not just go afk during that period, which would've been far better. Furthormore, he has been posting ALOT, constatnly trying to generate discussion. Mafia don't want that, they want discussion to stagnate. Finally we don't want to lynch the super actives just yet, especially when we don't think they're scum.
From this list, I personally want to hear more from Orglove and OpZ. I know they played many mafia games before and they are also very hard to analysis because they don't give too many analysis on the game. Please tell us what you think so far in the game and who you think is suspicious.
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Yeah, I agree that the lack of support for Orgolove is suspicious. Mafia have at least 6 members (guessing from the fact they have 3KP.) and his other members could at least defended him. I don't think there are enough reasons that Orgolove is mafia and no one else seemed to pointed it out earlier. If Orgolove is mafia, one of his other member will ask town to provided good reasons why Orgolove is mafia.
Also, annul was very active in the lynching of LSB. After night 1, we lost many veteran players but annul is still alive. If he is town, I thought he would try to redeem himself. This hasn't happened. I am also curious of annul's reason for lynch Mr.Zergling. I don't remember when he expressed his reason to lynch Mr.Zergling and a veteran player should at least give explanation for his voting.
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On January 02 2011 05:11 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 05:09 LunarDestiny wrote:
If Orgolove is mafia, one of his other member will ask town to provided good reasons why Orgolove is mafia. You mean like you and Barundar just did?
There is only like 6 hours left before the vote end. Why didn't we defended him earlier before a bandwagon on him is established.
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@annul, yes a lot of players (including veteran like Dr.H) voted to lynch LSB. I also vote to lynch LSB. But we didn't lynch LSB because of the reasons you provided. We lynched LSB because of the way he acted and the sudden counter bandwagon on brocket. You vote to lynch LSB because you think his early spams are mafia-like. I am not trying to say that LSB got lynched because you screwed up. Those who voted to lynch LSB misanalyzed.
I also believe that if you lynched someone based on reasons you provided. If the reasons make sense to you, regardless of the outcome where that person you lynched is town or mafia, the decision you made is correct because the same play style will get you a mafia next time.
After LSB's death, I expected you to redeem yourself by hunting a mafia down. But now, you are unvoting and voting without giving explanation. That is the reason that I am voting for you. I think you are a mafia who refuses to contribute.
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OK. It is reasonable that you switch vote to save yourself.
I'll ask you another question: Can you explain why you voted for Mr.Zergling?
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On January 02 2011 07:51 annul wrote:but really, now that you have your reason for my voting (which should have been blatantly obvious), does that mean that Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 07:19 LunarDestiny wrote:
But now, you are unvoting and voting without giving explanation. That is the reason that I am voting for you. isnt true anymore?
Yes, this is my reason. If a skilled player acted without a logical reason why he acted in such a way, then I believe that player is mafia. Good town players are supposed to help town, they should not act in ways that do not benefit town. On the other hand, good mafia players are trying to act in a way to make mafia win, sometimes they are acting in ways that benefit mafia and can't explain it to town.
Why would you think that no one will listen to you after LSB is lynched? A lot of us share similar responsibility that LSB was mislynched.
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Mr.Zergling, you are next. I pressured annul to explain why him voted for you. He didn't respond. As a mafia being targeted, he would defer his attention to another townie. Unless you are also mafia, he would definitely take the chance to accuse you. Annul did not.
I don't expect you to respond anytime soon as both you and your "ghost writers" (a term created by a person I forgot) must be present to help make your analysis good.
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On January 02 2011 12:27 Mr.Zergling wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 12:16 LunarDestiny wrote:
Mr.Zergling, you are next. I pressured annul to explain why him voted for you. He didn't respond. As a mafia being targeted, he would defer his attention to another townie. Unless you are also mafia, he would definitely take the chance to accuse you. Annul did not.
I don't expect you to respond anytime soon as both you and your "ghost writers" (a term created by a person I forgot) must be present to help make your analysis good. First of all, I have no "ghost writers", all posts made are composed by me. If it comes across as me being unsure in a post, then I probably was. Also, as I have said before, my general tone and alertness changes with sleep/caffeine content. I think it was Barundar who called me out on quoting other people as reasons for my votes. I was quoting other people to explain my voting reasons, because those were the posts that convinced me to vote in such a manner. The accusation of me was already done, and maybe annul thought that with his vote and Barundar's analysis he would be able to start a counter bandwagon on me. I think he knew that he was screwed.
Explain to me why didn't annul, who was being pressured by many, didn't take the chance to get out of being lynch. A active mafia who was to be lynch will do all he can to escape. I afford him a question to make himself look more town. He could at least give some reasons why he voted for you. He can even create some bullshit lies about why you are mafia (a desperate mafia will take this risk). He just brush off my question entirely.
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On January 02 2011 12:28 Mr.Zergling wrote:
Also, I am a vanilla townie
This is irrelevant and not the style of writing that you composed for the contribute you made in this game. However, this post is shortly after your semi detailed post which is understandable.
By irrelevant, I mean that a vanilla townie will try to absorb a mafia hit, especially since it is night. If you are mafia, you are doing the same thing annul was doing before he died.
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On January 02 2011 13:03 Mr.Zergling wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 12:33 LunarDestiny wrote:On January 02 2011 12:27 Mr.Zergling wrote:On January 02 2011 12:16 LunarDestiny wrote:
Mr.Zergling, you are next. I pressured annul to explain why him voted for you. He didn't respond. As a mafia being targeted, he would defer his attention to another townie. Unless you are also mafia, he would definitely take the chance to accuse you. Annul did not.
I don't expect you to respond anytime soon as both you and your "ghost writers" (a term created by a person I forgot) must be present to help make your analysis good. First of all, I have no "ghost writers", all posts made are composed by me. If it comes across as me being unsure in a post, then I probably was. Also, as I have said before, my general tone and alertness changes with sleep/caffeine content. I think it was Barundar who called me out on quoting other people as reasons for my votes. I was quoting other people to explain my voting reasons, because those were the posts that convinced me to vote in such a manner. The accusation of me was already done, and maybe annul thought that with his vote and Barundar's analysis he would be able to start a counter bandwagon on me. I think he knew that he was screwed. Explain to me why didn't annul, who was being pressured by many, didn't take the chance to get out of being lynch. A active mafia who was to be lynch will do all he can to escape. I afford him a question to make himself look more town. He could at least give some reasons why he voted for you. He can even create some bullshit lies about why you are mafia (a desperate mafia will take this risk). He just brush off my question entirely. I can't answer this, I'm not reading annul's mind. Pressuring me hard huh.
I am not expecting you to read annul's mind and explain why he didn't accuse you. That is my logic of why you are mafia. I want you to point out the flaws in my logic.
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EPT
