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Pick Your Power Mafia 3! - Page 8
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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Incognito
United States2071 Posts
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Incognito
United States2071 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
On January 03 2011 13:16 kitaman27 wrote: What about the fact that the medics identities will be public too? Couldn't they be picked off day one? Town has to worry about 2 kp because the SK will likely be sniping good roles as well. It is unlikely that any of these kills will be blocked if the veteran, bulletproof, hider are all public and the medics are sitting ducks. Would it be better for the anti-town roles to be predetermined so the town has some control over them, while the pro-town roles remain hidden? That would result in some overlap in role selection, however important roles like bullet bill and alignment cop won't be taken out so easily. All right, in order to understand this fully, you have to understand one thing Clash is equivilant to a mafia kill / SK kill Lets say that in my plan, I was assigned the DT and you the Medic. All right, mafia might spend on of their KPs and take out the DT Now, lets say we just randomly choose roles. I picked DT, and you picked DT. Sure the mafia 'doesn't know where the medic is' but we have no medic. Frankly, yeah, one of our DT/Medics will die. But we got 19 other blue roles to draw up on. The point of the plan is to eliminate clash in role selection so that we get an obcene amount of information. If you still don't understand, try propsing a solution. | ||
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Incognito
United States2071 Posts
On January 03 2011 14:43 LSB wrote: All right, in order to understand this fully, you have to understand one thing Clash is equivilant to a mafia kill / SK kill Lets say that in my plan, I was assigned the DT and you the Medic. All right, mafia might spend on of their KPs and take out the DT Now, lets say we just randomly choose roles. I picked DT, and you picked DT. Sure the mafia 'doesn't know where the medic is' but we have no medic. Frankly, yeah, one of our DT/Medics will die. But we got 19 other blue roles to draw up on. The point of the plan is to eliminate clash in role selection so that we get an obcene amount of information. If you still don't understand, try propsing a solution. The threat of having a medic is almost as good as actually having a medic. As you know, medic saves are quite rare. As long as mafia thinks there are medics in the game, then they can't just brashly decide to hit someone important and know with confidence that he will die. As long as no medics die, mafia always have to choose hits with the consideration that there might be medics. Town could care less if they actually exist. | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
Then we get into Prisoners Delima. Lets say we order the Medics to protect LSB. The medic has two choices, protect LSB, or don't However, if we convince the Mafia that the medic is protecting LSB, its just as good protection as if LSB was actually protected, since mafia isn't going to make that risk The medic is free to do whatever he wants then Or. We could just have lots of clashes and not actually have any important roles. That would take care of the medic problem pretty fast | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 03 2011 14:43 LSB wrote: All right, in order to understand this fully, you have to understand one thing Clash is equivilant to a mafia kill / SK kill I disagree. That assumes that the vanilla townie is dead. Even if a clash occurs, the vanilla role is still alive to contribute and still counts towards the win condition threshold. Best case scenario, the clash involves a mafia and leaves them without a role. Sure, the clash is unfortunate, but I wouldn't go as far as saying its a kill. On January 03 2011 10:50 LSB wrote: Lets say that in my plan, I was assigned the DT and you the Medic. All right, mafia might spend on of their KPs and take out the DT Now, lets say we just randomly choose roles. I picked DT, and you picked DT. Sure the mafia 'doesn't know where the medic is' but we have no medic. Perhaps, but I would think the town members with the lower picks would prioritize the medic and dt roles rather that the less useful roles to prevent that type of situation. So there might be some doubling on certain roles, but it would come at the loss of something like the Politician or Veteran, rather than the medic or dt. On January 03 2011 10:50 LSB wrote: Frankly, yeah, one of our DT/Medics will die. But we got 19 other blue roles to draw up on. The point of the plan is to eliminate clash in role selection so that we get an obcene amount of information. If you still don't understand, try propsing a solution. I proposed that the anti-town roles be pre-determined for town manipulation while the town roles were left for selection. It also kinda takes the fun out of "pick your power" when your power is chosen for you, but I'm not strictly against your idea. If we do decide to take your course of action, we should finalize the suggested role list before the alignment pm's go out to prevent any tampering. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
On January 03 2011 14:59 kitaman27 wrote: I disagree. That assumes that the vanilla townie is dead. Even if a clash occurs, the vanilla role is still alive to contribute and still counts towards the win condition threshold. Not really. Lets look at the two senarios A) 1 DT 1 Medic. Mafia shoots the medic Result? 1 DT left B) 1DT 1 Townie. Mafia shoots a random person Result? 50% 1 DT left. 50% 1 Townie left Its like me taking a doller from you. Heads you keep the doller. Tails I keep it. Not good chance. Best case scenario, the clash involves a mafia and leaves them without a role. Sure, the clash is unfortunate, but I wouldn't go as far as saying its a kill. Sure the mafia will always get a role. We alreday denied the good roles, so the role is kindof useless for the mafia. Perhaps, but I would think the town members with the lower picks would prioritize the medic and dt roles rather that the less useful roles to prevent that type of situation. So there might be some doubling on certain roles, but it would come at the loss of something like the Politician or Veteran, rather than the medic or dt. Why would we want to give up a Veteran Role? I guess we could do somethig like spot 6 be 50% doctor 50% vet And spot 21 be 100% doctor. But thats radfield's plan, and yeah, mafia still shot the DT night one. I proposed that the anti-town roles be pre-determined for town manipulation while the town roles were left for selection. It also kinda takes the fun out of "pick your power" when your power is chosen for you, but I'm not strictly against your idea. If we do decide to take your course of action, we should finalize the suggested role list before the alignment pm's go out to prevent any tampering. 1) Higher seeded players will be the ones who get roles, so the mafia probably will hit high anyways 2) Think of the number picking phase, everyone picking random numbers will have a LOT of clashes. Do you think that having the whole town do that is going to be any better? | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
On January 03 2011 15:11 bumatlarge wrote: Taking out the watcher role? For shame. Well I guess it was completely broken *wink* Who knows? Maybe you'll get politican and then we find out that it too is completly broken! | ||
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Node
United States2159 Posts
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
I'm moving the copy cat up because of a possible mafia combo. (Day 1 Vig shoots CPR Doc, copycat gets lost somewhere.) With the Copy Cat higher on the role list, it should be easier to determine what happened. I have moved down the Janitor. Although the Janitor might be dangerous. It's not as dangerous as a rouge Copy Cat. Proposed Role Picking list 1. CPR Doc 2. Comp Vig 3. Copy Cat 4. JOAT 5. Bullet Bill 6. Doctor 7. Doctor 8. Role Cop 9. Alignment Cop 10. Role Blocker 11. Janitor 12. Prince of Darkness 13. Day Vig 14. Pardoner 15. Politican 16. Mason 17. Hider 18. Bulletproof 19. Veteran 20. God Father 21. Random a role[ | ||
Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
Although the Janitor might be dangerous. It's not as dangerous as a rouge Copy Cat. Urgh... bad wow flashback | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On January 03 2011 14:47 Incognito wrote: The threat of having a medic is almost as good as actually having a medic. As you know, medic saves are quite rare. As long as mafia thinks there are medics in the game, then they can't just brashly decide to hit someone important and know with confidence that he will die. As long as no medics die, mafia always have to choose hits with the consideration that there might be medics. Town could care less if they actually exist. Agreed! By far the most important thing is keeping the mafia from having perfect information. Actual roles can help depending on how things develop, but they are not the end-all in these games and surely not worth giving the mafia full (or even too much) info. | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
And this wouldn't be the first game where we gave mafia perfect information. In PYP2, besides for the traitor role, mafia basically knew where every single other role was. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
In pyp 2 the town gave away too much for my taste but there was still ambiguit: people were instructed to rng between defensive and other roles. The threat of the meth man was real for instance. Edit: many of these conversations were had already and some version of my views is in pyp 1 and 2 so I will stop taking up air time better used by actual players. | ||
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aidnai
United States1159 Posts
So, did we decide yet if clashing is good or bad for town? Also, LSB, why not move up day vig instead of copy cat? Unless the plan is to lose a really good role right off the bat, copy cat is probably gonna end up with something lame, right? | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
Lets pretend the copy cat is at position #19 or something low. Say the day vig kills the CPR doc day 1. But apparently someone else took the copy cat role and Position 19 never got it. That leaves 17 other candidates for the copycat role. The key thing is that if the day vig uses his ability. We know where he is. But we won't know where the copy cat is. By placing the copy cat up high, we solve this problem because it leaves only 3 possible locations for where the copy cat it. Number Clashing is good for the town as it adds an element of randomness to the draft order Role Clashing is bad for the town as it lessens the amount of blue roles. | ||
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