EPTPick Your Power Mafia 3! - Page 12
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
| ||
|
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
| ||
|
bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On January 07 2011 08:22 Fishball wrote: Decided to join last minute, I haven't read anything yet, including OP. I'll read it later when I have time. I just want to bring this up front first, it will be very unlikely for me to follow LSB's plan. I'm going to do what fishball is doing. I think LSB's list is a nice guideline for what you should be looking for, but it should not be set in stone. It's easily infiltrated and a lot can get screwed up. I think you should rewrite the list LSB with what you think is best for each slot, and then add an alternative choice. For instance, Slot 1 should take CPR doc 100%, so we can keep tabs. Now I would argue that slot 2 should take CV, because we want to minimize confusion in the case of clash. Then again, your plan of staggering the pro-town/mafia-denied roles will make it very difficult for mafia to secure what they want. If we assume the mafia is going to play safe, then this should go smoothly. Yet mafia may be willing to play risky, jeopardizing town's plan of denying and securing in exchange for a member. I think we should leave it up to who gets the role. Now for numbers, I'd say if you want to be pro-town and possibly net a powerful role, go [1-7][1]. This threatens mafia in tying, forcing them to take odder numbers. If you want a strong role and feel you will play it beneficially, go [1-10][1-5]. If you feel a lot of suspicion, you can roll high, can placed towards the middle and check what your suspect picks, though that should be only when you feel very strongly about someone's scumosity. But if you do find an alternate role pick, and that person hasn't been secretive about what they will pick, you net the whole town a traitor or a sneaky scum. But that's also a high risk chance of you checking a townie and getting vanilla, or you making an accurate FoS, but finding that mafia has no plans of diverting from his role. So in short, LSB's list should just highly recommend things. If you get slot 9 and think you want to see if you can get JOAT, Go for it! If you are slot 1, tell everyone you are picking CPR, and then pick GF instead, then you got some 'splainin to do. | ||
|
LSB
United States5171 Posts
On January 07 2011 13:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote: also lsb -_- *facepalm* Your plan gives wayyyyyy to much information to mafia. It also gives the mafia a stupid easy time of faking being town depending on the role they get. I've already addressed information. Mafia had virtually full information in PYP2 and couldn't do much about it. Secondly with 4 potential protection roles, it shouldn't be an issue What do you mean by faking town? @Bum. Why would any slot 9 person go for Joat? The problem is if we allow for people to bit a wee bit flexible, it allows mafia to easily shuffle around roles. For example, lets say #5 Copycat, decides to pick Day Vig instead. This could be a potential mafia transfer of the copycat role to somewhere hidden. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On January 05 2011 07:23 Qatol wrote: I'm just going to say one thing about your plan and then leave you be: I think you're giving up too much information. If you have an assigned role selection list, you just gave the mafia/SK a 0% risk of role clashing. While giving everyone a role is a good thought, I think it is too easy for the mafia to control what they get and then take out the most important roles. Also, it is easy for them to avoid the defensive roles. I think you're giving up too much for what you're getting. On January 05 2011 07:29 Ace wrote: Since the game hasn't started yet I'll say this about your plan: If I was Scum I'd love it. On January 05 2011 07:40 Ver wrote: Yup. God help the town, especially if they have to deal with a traitor. Those three certainly have a fair amount of experience under their belt. The mafia may have had tons of information in PYP2, but I'm not sure if it was exploited as well as it could have been. In regards to overwhelming the mafia with blue roles, several will be much less useful by revealing their identities publicly. Sure we will have tons of blues, but they aren't exactly all that helpful. Role Cop- Why check a role when we know everything? It could be useful in the case of a clash, but if someone decides to go against the list then they will be relatively easy to spot anyways. Doctor- Out in the open, practically forced to protect each other if they want to live past day 2. Bulletproof- Doubt a mafia will decide to shoot a bulletproof. Veteran- Again, won't be a night target. ------- One of the biggest advantages of the list is it weakens the strength of the traitor. Even with the list, odds are likely that someone might try and take it. Who doesn't want a chance to join the mafia after getting a boring town role? I propose that someone in the middle of the draft publicly take the traitor role. If there is a clash then we are able to narrow down where the traitor lies, if not then the traitor is one less thing the town has to worry about. | ||
|
Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On January 07 2011 14:16 LSB wrote: I've already addressed information. Mafia had virtually full information in PYP2 and couldn't do much about it. I was the most active Mafia member in that game, and I have also addressed this wasn't the case (selective reading?). I've mentioned in this thread, saying that Radfield's plan had its merits and applied constraints to the Mafia, but for the most part, it wasn't a huge issue. What I mean by constraints, is that Mafia were not able to pick up roles such as Bad Santa, Prince of Darkness, and Compulsive Vigilante, these powerful Pro-Mafia roles as freely as we wanted, forcing us to put more thought into what to pick, as well as "blending in". His plan was also more viable due to a variation of choices per draft, unlike yours. Your plan is basically handing out free information to the Mafia. Our alignment PM's have already been sent by Ace. So if you are still pushing for the plan, you are one or more of the following: - You are Mafia, wanting to fish information. - You are aiming for the Traitor role, feeding Mafia information to help your side to win. - You are butt-hurt after multiple players told you this wasn't a good plan, and your ego refuses to let yourself back down. - You are simply naive. | ||
|
aidnai
United States1159 Posts
| ||
|
LSB
United States5171 Posts
Role cop is important if mafia decides to mess around with the role list / hunting traitors. Vig / bulletproof I guess you could say are fillers, but hey, being untouchable at night might encourage people to be active @Fishball Certainly information helps the mafia. But you are overemphasizng the impact. Lets say I tell you (the mafia) that Player 1 and 2 are doctors, and Players 3-6 are DTs. You have 1 KP. How does the mafia instantly win? You had all the information you needed in PYP2, about as much as my plan. I'll re-link the post for you www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7486616 Please stop just repeating what other people already said and actually start thinking and adressing my responces The key thing you are missing is that the town needs information too. Lets say everyone choose random roles. Eventually the Bullet Bills or DTs will have to come out and clain. The problem is how would the town know whether they are telling the truth or not? By giving the town the information, it helps deal with this issue Lastly, if the Mafia conforms, they will lose because of the shear number of investigative roles. | ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
I think this debate will become down to whether or not giving town info/roles outweighs giving mafia info/roles. Couple things for the plan: 1) Mafia has only 1 KP, so I feel like the only way they can possibly win is if they get a KP role. 2) Role cop has some usage by checking roles and seeing if it corresponds to what role they should have gotten. 3) Allows for more roles a) Avoids clash between town for important town roles ie tracker (although refer to 1b and 2 of the following list) 4) Doesn't guarantee a stop in giving mafia roles that they would want ie CPR Doc Couple things I'm concerned about LSB's plan: 1) Guarantee that mafia will get roles a) Since we know the draft order once we pick numbers, if mafia lands on one of the roles that is crucial to mafia, ie vigilante, mafia can relax in getting the role they want. b) Even if mafia doesn't get the role they want according to LSB's list, they may still conform with the list just to deny the town with a useful role ie Bullet Bill c) All the roles are useful for mafia in some way (except role cop, but refer to 2) 2) Still doesn't stop mafia from clashing with important town roles, esp if mafia ends up with a role that they don't want 2) Plan makes bulletproof and veteran useless, as they can't draw in mafia KP. 3) Mafia will know who is what role, and is able to target by role instead of in the dark. Right now, I'm leaning towards no to LSB's plan, partly because of pregame discussion but mostly because I feel cons outweigh pros. | ||
|
Misder
United States1557 Posts
Role cop (can only confirm roles in list, not really guarantee that they are mafia), JOAT (can only investigate once), tracker (if used effectively), and parity cop Tracker and parity cop seems like the only investigative roles that the town can rely on. (And JOAT, but that person can only check once) | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
Got the PM that this started, but it's 10am and I haven't gotten any sleep, so I'll see you in 20 hours or so. xoxo hugs and kisses. | ||
|
Pigsquirrel
United States615 Posts
If they are lucky and land on an extra KP, then it's GG for town. | ||
|
Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
I really feel that you're playing this game assuming that the mafia players will just sit back, put their feet up, and say "well LSB said we should do this so playing along is definitely a good idea since it won't make us look scummy, even though his plan was created prior to the start of the game." | ||
|
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
| ||
|
Pigsquirrel
United States615 Posts
On January 07 2011 22:52 deconduo wrote: There's no point following LSB's plan if more than a couple of people don't intend to. I personally don't think its that terrible, but it relies on every single townie picking as they are supposed to. Its pretty obvious that won't happen now. That's the biggest problem. Half a dozen people don't follow the plan, all of a sudden we have half a dozen false leads, and the scum has a role list. | ||
|
HaploPaithan
United States100 Posts
I plan to follow it. | ||
|
aidnai
United States1159 Posts
Poll: Do you intend to follow LSB's plan? No (11) Yes (6) 17 total votes Your vote: Do you intend to follow LSB's plan? | ||
|
dinmsab
Malaysia2246 Posts
| ||
|
Ace
United States16096 Posts
| ||
|
LayOffRage
52 Posts
| ||
| ||
