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Insane Mafia - Page 15

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DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 07:16 GMT
#1210
I responded firstly at the time of 10/31 16:01
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 07:26 GMT
#1215
If mafia know who you are, because you chose the red pill, why didn't you simply claim to the entire town instead?

Was that due to the possibility that your role was insane and that mafia wouldn't actually be made aware?
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 07:31 GMT
#1217
I'm not going to poke CubEdIn due to the huge possibility that he will be modkilled. Unless a mod confirms that won't be the case, I'll probably poke him.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 18:41 GMT
#1256
I think it is very possible there is a bus driver role that switched youngminii and SiNiquity, causing my lynch to go through to SiN. Or there is a role that can hide during the night, or hide someone else.

I very much doubt youngminii has a role that makes him permanently immune to lynches and that if that role existed it would certainly not be a scum role.

Medics should protect our most experienced players for now. Period. That's Fishball, Bumatlarge, Ace, BrownBear, infundibulum, and possibly Divinek (not sure exactly how much of a vet he is)

Medics should NOT protect me obviously.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 18:44 GMT
#1258
On November 01 2010 03:42 youngminii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2010 01:44 Pandain wrote:
On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote:
oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on

Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves:
Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway.
Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone?

DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*.

Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched?


We're not asking you to roleclaim per se, we're asking you to explain why you were the lynch target, and you survived.

No comment.

Show nested quote +
Nevermind, you are correct. I misstated: The bodyguard prevents the Mayor from being hit, either during day or during night, and can't die except by Murrayitis or getting lynched.

Doesn't that mean the bodyguard can't get hit at night by scum anyway?

I just asked Artanis that question. It's worded to make it sound like the bodyguard can only be lynched.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 18:51 GMT
#1260
On November 01 2010 03:49 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2010 03:42 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 01:44 Pandain wrote:
On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote:
oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on

Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves:
Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway.
Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone?

DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*.

Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched?


We're not asking you to roleclaim per se, we're asking you to explain why you were the lynch target, and you survived.

No comment.

Nevermind, you are correct. I misstated: The bodyguard prevents the Mayor from being hit, either during day or during night, and can't die except by Murrayitis or getting lynched.

Doesn't that mean the bodyguard can't get hit at night by scum anyway?


Is it that revealing this will reveal another aspect of your role that can be vital for town? If so, just say that. Because as of now you dodging just makes me incrediably wary of you. If you can't explain in thread, then I would suggest we somehow incorporate youngminii into a pming circle. I'm unsure how to do that however while still trying to get the doc(doc h that is) connected. Also, if the bodyguard can only be lynched it actually would be advisable for the bodyguard to claim so then we don't lynch him. Of course, that seems a bit OP for town so I would think there must be a lynch-related role of changing the lynch target...

Hmm..... if only there was such a role...

*wonder why I'm so suscipcious of you*

why are you fishing so hard for him to claim? if there is a role that dodges lynches/hides at night I highly doubt it is a scum role. In fact it seem even more likely to me that he was acted upon by another more manipulative role.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 19:08 GMT
#1267
On November 01 2010 04:01 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2010 03:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I think it is very possible there is a bus driver role that switched youngminii and SiNiquity, causing my lynch to go through to SiN. Or there is a role that can hide during the night, or hide someone else.

I very much doubt youngminii has a role that makes him permanently immune to lynches and that if that role existed it would certainly not be a scum role.

Medics should protect our most experienced players for now. Period. That's Fishball, Bumatlarge, Ace, BrownBear, infundibulum, and possibly Divinek (not sure exactly how much of a vet he is)

Medics should NOT protect me obviously.


Huh missed this. I didn't think a bus driver was able to switch lynches....
And I'm confused by what you mean by "hide during the night."

And I disagree about a role immune to lynches being a town role. To me, a role immune to night hits would be town, a role immune to lynches would be mafia. Who's going to get hit at night? Town(mafia/town if there are vigis)
Who's going to be lynched in day?
mafia/town

A role involving immunity to lynches would almost certainly be a scum role in my eyes. If you can point out another game where it was not, I would be much obliged.

Show nested quote +
On November 01 2010 03:53 Aeres wrote:
On November 01 2010 03:49 Pandain wrote:
On November 01 2010 03:42 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 01:44 Pandain wrote:
On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote:
oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on

Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves:
Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway.
Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone?

DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*.

Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched?


We're not asking you to roleclaim per se, we're asking you to explain why you were the lynch target, and you survived.

Well let's find out:

Artanis, can a bodyguard be lynched?


A scum role that avoids lynches permanently is broken since we'd have to rely on using a single vigi hit to win the game, presumably.

And don't assume a bus driver couldn't switch lynchees in this game. This is Insane Mafia and we need to throw our previous conclusions about how roles should work out the window. At least to some degree.

Although my top 2 when I told the town who I was going to lynch was SiN and THEN youngminii, I changed my mind after SiN's martyring post.

Perhaps a busdriver switched SiN and young, trying to save SiN only to have the opposite effect? It seems plausible enough but I'm not sure there is any real way to know and having YM role claim is just going to paint a new big target for the mafia forcing our medics to spread even thinner.

@InfiniteStory
There are many roles that could be twisted to do this that are fairly standard/used in mafia games. Roles like the hider, commuter, bus driver, etc.


RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 19:09 GMT
#1268
On November 01 2010 04:07 youngminii wrote:
Seriously Pandain? The lynch is the town's greatest weapon, you can't make scum immune to lynches without making the game horribly imbalanced.

In any case, why don't you think about it carefully before telling me to claim? If I'm invincible, no one will believe me. If I'm immune to lynches, mafia will kill me. If I'm able to manipulate something, that will make me just as suspicious as I am now.

Stop being an idiot and play the game properly. You always do this over-analytical crap which doesn't work. Go back a step and think before you post. Maybe you should start with the first post where clearly says PMs are not allowed.


Did Pandain PM you?
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 19:14 GMT
#1273
i was just thinking "why the fuck would you do that oh my god"

but then I read the rest of your post and that you can survive a short while without medics. I'm not sure it was necessary to claim. If the Mafia thought the only bodyguard was dead, they might waste hits on me, even stack them.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 19:18 GMT
#1276
It seems possible that on a night when you are out of town, you would not be able to protect me.

Can Artanis confirm this? I know he can't confirm that you are the bodyguard so let me word my question thusly:
If a player is "gone for the night", would that player also be able to protect me if they were a bodyguard that same night? If Aeres hypothetically is the second bodyguard and my other bodyguard is dead: Aeres leaves for the night and the mafia hits me. Do I survive?
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 19:19 GMT
#1277
On November 01 2010 04:17 youngminii wrote:
He didn't PM me, he seems to be using "why aren't you PMing others" as an argument.

Show nested quote +
If you can't explain in thread, then I would suggest we somehow incorporate youngminii into a pming circle

Show nested quote +
I don't want him to claim in thread if it hurts(thus through pms) and I don't even want him to claim entirely


Sorry Pandain, you're not an idiot, your arguments are.

Show nested quote +
I know you didn't read the thread entirely, so I'll just tell you it's already known by know there are roles where pms are allowed. If you're invincible, town(at least me) is not going to be like "wtf". If your immune, well then actually we might let you die if it will help other roles live

So you're assuming that I can PM people and your argument is that I should be roleclaiming through PMs?

And please, tell me how letting me die is a good thing? Back up your arguments. In any case, your posts have been hugely scummy to me, but then again they always are. I've never been in a mafia game where you've given solid arguments as a townie.

there is supposedly a role in this game that can pass on the power of PM's to others, I believe that is what he is referring to

letting you die is retarded though
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 19:26 GMT
#1287
On November 01 2010 04:22 youngminii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2010 04:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
f a player is "gone for the night", would that player also be able to protect me if they were a bodyguard that same night? If Aeres hypothetically is the second bodyguard and my other bodyguard is dead: Aeres leaves for the night and the mafia hits me. Do I survive?

This is a question too hypothetical to answer as it would require me to confirm or deny roles and give too much information away.

Translation: Aeres is scum and he's making up the role. By answering this question, I would be confirming the existence of the fake role and as such, I can't give a real answer.

Maybe.

I just talked to him about it on MSN.

In the words of Artanis

"If the definition of the night action is only that he can't be targetted by night actions, then nothing in that includes not being able to protect the mayor."

Can you confirm this Artanis?
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 19:27 GMT
#1290
On November 01 2010 04:23 infinitestory wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2010 04:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 01 2010 04:01 Pandain wrote:
On November 01 2010 03:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I think it is very possible there is a bus driver role that switched youngminii and SiNiquity, causing my lynch to go through to SiN. Or there is a role that can hide during the night, or hide someone else.

I very much doubt youngminii has a role that makes him permanently immune to lynches and that if that role existed it would certainly not be a scum role.

Medics should protect our most experienced players for now. Period. That's Fishball, Bumatlarge, Ace, BrownBear, infundibulum, and possibly Divinek (not sure exactly how much of a vet he is)

Medics should NOT protect me obviously.


Huh missed this. I didn't think a bus driver was able to switch lynches....
And I'm confused by what you mean by "hide during the night."

And I disagree about a role immune to lynches being a town role. To me, a role immune to night hits would be town, a role immune to lynches would be mafia. Who's going to get hit at night? Town(mafia/town if there are vigis)
Who's going to be lynched in day?
mafia/town

A role involving immunity to lynches would almost certainly be a scum role in my eyes. If you can point out another game where it was not, I would be much obliged.

On November 01 2010 03:53 Aeres wrote:
On November 01 2010 03:49 Pandain wrote:
On November 01 2010 03:42 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 01:44 Pandain wrote:
On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote:
oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on

Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves:
Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway.
Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone?

DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*.

Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched?


We're not asking you to roleclaim per se, we're asking you to explain why you were the lynch target, and you survived.

Well let's find out:

Artanis, can a bodyguard be lynched?


A scum role that avoids lynches permanently is broken since we'd have to rely on using a single vigi hit to win the game, presumably.

And don't assume a bus driver couldn't switch lynchees in this game. This is Insane Mafia and we need to throw our previous conclusions about how roles should work out the window. At least to some degree.

Although my top 2 when I told the town who I was going to lynch was SiN and THEN youngminii, I changed my mind after SiN's martyring post.

Perhaps a busdriver switched SiN and young, trying to save SiN only to have the opposite effect? It seems plausible enough but I'm not sure there is any real way to know and having YM role claim is just going to paint a new big target for the mafia forcing our medics to spread even thinner.

@InfiniteStory
There are many roles that could be twisted to do this that are fairly standard/used in mafia games. Roles like the hider, commuter, bus driver, etc.



If a lynch-swapping bus driver exists, I'm convinced that would be town, since otherwise we would be almost unable to lynch a mafia (a red lynch-swapping bus driver would always switch the lynch to a townie unless our top two in votes are reds every single time).

However, like I said earlier, that bus driver would have to be certain youngminii is valuable and by extension probably know his alignment. That would indicate either they're both mason-like roles (unlikely, since the bus driver is already a bus driver), or they're both reds. But I've already noted that a red lynch-swapping bus driver would be ridiculously OP. Contradiction.

Therefore, I'm convinced youngminii's role saved him, making him a likely blue.


I looked around mafia scum roles related to lynches. What jumped out at me was the role "Unlynchable" which merely survives the first lynch. This can be either a town or mafia role, although it seems it's typically a pro-town role.

Not saying that's YM's role, but this is not enough to confirm his as town by any means.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 19:29 GMT
#1293
On November 01 2010 04:24 Veldril wrote:
From what I see of the first day lynch; I think for this game, the top three votes will be taken into account. It is very likely that there is a role that would prevent the "top" voted player to avoid the lynch, be it one time or can use all the game long.

Young's case could be either ways; he has a role that immune to lynch (more likely one time, since permanent immunity is slightly too OP), or he has someone protected him with or without him knowing. We need to get more information before we can conclude which is the case.

Right now, I think it is agreeable that medic should protect veterans first. However; from what I see from Sinquity's role, I think most medics would also be able to cure Murrayitis, which could be a decisive factor in this game. But since we don't have any infected player yet, the curing of Murrayitis is moot for the time being, but it should be discussed more on the next night.

I want to ask you guys something too. Would it be a good idea to analyze the Murrayitis's mechanics and how it would affect the game in the long run? I think I find it's interesting but I'm not sure if other players agree or not.



Murrayitis, for now, is something we have to be very aware of but it's also something thats effects will become much more significant as the game wears on. Our main priority is scumhunting.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 19:40 GMT
#1300
If DC didn't claim as bodyguard, meaning that we misunderstood him, or that he lied I'm not really sure what to make of it. It's a very odd play but it isn't one that seems scummy unless he thought for sure that the other bodyguard wouldn't claim under any circumstance

He certainly needs to clarify some things to us
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 19:47 GMT
#1306
On November 01 2010 04:46 youngminii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2010 04:24 Aeres wrote:I hope that DC actually isn't a Bodyguard as he implied. If he wasn't, that means there's still a hidden Bodyguard out there, and I can stall for time while the Mafia searches for the hidden one. In that period, we can coalesce into a more organized town and start trying to get at the Mafia.

Why would you say this if you only think there are 2 bodyguards because of dcx's 'claim'?

great catch

it's possible this is a mafia play to waste medic actions on alternating days?

perhaps mafia can sub in a bodyguard? a DT should check aeres
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 21:47 GMT
#1333
On November 01 2010 06:45 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2010 06:17 Ace wrote:
Guys, stop and think for a second.

Misder and Pandain both tried to ask youngminii for information, pretty much trying to force a role claim.

AT NIGHT!.

we can't vote right now so why force a roleclain out of youngminii? Both of them need to be looked at heavily from now on. If you're a Detective please investigate one of these guys and if they flip Scum do some damage.


except I didn't, and I said we should try getting him into contact with a pm circle if he feels he shouldn't share. But fine, you have a good point about it being night. Afterwards, I'm still pushing for him to explain.



This is correct

Pandain said
I don't want him to claim in thread if it hurts(thus through pms) and I don't even want him to claim entirely. I just want to know why he's not dead. Remember this is insane mafia, we need to make sense of what's happening.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 21:52 GMT
#1335
However I will note that he changed his stance after I called him out on aggressive fishing that he did here:

Is it that revealing this will reveal another aspect of your role that can be vital for town? If so, just say that. Because as of now you dodging just makes me incrediably wary of you. If you can't explain in thread, then I would suggest we somehow incorporate youngminii into a pming circle. I'm unsure how to do that however while still trying to get the doc(doc h that is) connected. Also, if the bodyguard can only be lynched it actually would be advisable for the bodyguard to claim so then we don't lynch him. Of course, that seems a bit OP for town so I would think there must be a lynch-related role of changing the lynch target...


This is a pretty weak qualifier. Bum claims he can bring one person per night into the PMing circle and my guess is that YM wasn't his first choice, it seems unlikely that this scenario would occur at all and the only other alternative Pandain presents is an open roleclaim.

I'm wary. You did later say you don't want him to claim if it hurts but that could very well be to save face.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 21:59 GMT
#1340
On November 01 2010 06:57 Coagulation wrote:
well regardless we need to get to the bottom of the youngminii thing somehow i think thats the point hes trying to make. i still feel like there is a good possibility that his ability is either a red ability or he was saved by a red allie. i dont want this to just blow under the radar


so are you saying he should roleclaim? what should we do about it?
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 31 2010 22:02 GMT
#1345
On November 01 2010 07:01 Lexpar wrote:
If I die tonight Doc H is almost definitely scum.

wut
RIP Aaliyah
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