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On October 29 2010 12:19 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 12:17 bumatlarge wrote:On October 29 2010 12:14 Ace wrote:Maybe I should run for Mayor?  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php# LALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU. We also need to decide the first person to kill, which is often hard with little information. I say we kill a mayor candidate, as it might increase our chances, based on when and how they claimed to run. Of course they might not run at all, but with such ambiguity in what roles are present, you could really fake some nasty stuff. I wouldn't pass up that opportunity. Mayor determines first day kill. Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 09:58 bumatlarge wrote:On October 29 2010 09:45 Hyperbola wrote:On October 29 2010 08:29 bumatlarge wrote:On October 29 2010 07:47 Hyperbola wrote:
Citizens of Insania,
I would like to announce my candidacy for mayor. In light of recent events, most importantly the town's development of many new powers, a new system of government must emerge to quell the chaos that is this town. It has come to our attention that the local mafia has begun to exploit their new abilities and are now aiming for total control of this fine community. In order to successfully repel them, a properly organized inner circle of supertownies must be established. This new circle needs leadership and commitment, and I believe I am the man for the job.
Vote for Order! Vote Hyperbola! On October 29 2010 07:49 CubEdIn wrote:
*heads to the voting thread to vote for Hyperbola*
*giggles* See, this is bad, we can't have this. Look how much nonsense he spouted. No of that means anything. IT MEANS NOTHING. Then this dude just votes for him? Sorry charlie not having it. You need to be voting for me. If I am not voed in, I will be  Then I will become a Pandain/BM (without the getting modkilled part) and just bug everyone. But if I am! I will be :D Everything will go under my scrutinizer eye and no one will get any biased treatment. Except for maybe Ace, who I owe some respect for that penalty mafia game. He's allowed to do his own thing and not vote for me. An interesting strategy. You call me out on my magnificent speech and then proceed to say almost nothing yourself. Then you direct attention away from yourself and give the illusion of trying to help town by saying random things about the game. I don't think Cube was being serious when he posted that, but I however, was. I am very adept at organization and strategic play. Although I may have not been in as many mafia games and tend to stay quiet, I can still manage a team and have done so in games I was mafia in. The same skills can apply to town if we are able to sort out who's who and create a legitimate town circle. Furthermore, I am very adept at sorting out what's what's legitimate and what's bullshit. Unless there are some specific roles which may overcome my keen eye, I can guarantee you that there will be NO leaks in the town circle if I am voted mayor. As for the issue of whether I am mafia or not... you can be damn well sure that the first person to announce their candidacy for mayor as I did had better be really fucking good at defending themselves from clues if they're mafia. Other than that fact, I cannot guarantee anything. But that is what most elections are: a leap of faith. I'm curious how you would go about forming a town circle. Considering the PM rules. And there are no clues in this game, unless you mean something else like slip-ups. It seems for someone claiming they have such a keen-eye, you don't read the OP very well. I don't think this makes you scummy, you just don't stand out as an experienced player if we put aside how smart you will be as mayor. oh the irony  + Show Spoiler +
Typical Pandain viewing mayor as a tyrannical role. Mayor needs to mesh townie togetha foreva. Gotta keep da love our house.
REVERSE IRONY. SUPER EFFECTIVE.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On October 29 2010 09:28 LunarDestiny wrote:
DoctorHelvetica voting for Bumatlarge did give out some information about their alignment.
If DoctorHelvetica is Town, then Bumatlarge is Town or Mafia
If DoctorHelvetica is Mafia, then Bumatlarge is Mafia
If Bumatlarge is Town, then DoctorHelvetica is Town
If Bumatlarge is Mafia, then DoctorHelvetica can be Town or Mafia
Lol, yes, those are the 4 possible outcomes
I feel that it is quite apparent that no one is actually seriously considering me as a mayor, which I see as fair, I just figured I should try.
At this point, I'm torn between Bumatlarge and annul. Bum is a very experienced player, and I feel like he would know what to do with the town. On the other hand, annul freaking owned the town (with some help from aztrorisk >.<) in Haunted, so I know that he is a good leader. I wish he would post some more and back up his campaign.
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bumatlarge. as a campaigning candidate for mayor what is your political stance on bandwagoning
are you pro Bandwagon
or Anti bandwagon
plz explain
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On October 29 2010 12:44 Coagulation wrote:
bumatlarge. as a campaigning candidate for mayor what is your political stance on bandwagoning
are you pro Bandwagon
or Anti bandwagon
plz explain
This made me think, Pandain and bumatlarge currently have the most votes (for whatever that's worth) so perhaps they should have a mini debate where they answer questions from the voters (no mafia allowed :D). I would like to ask both candidates their positions on role claiming, when (if ever) is role claiming neccesary? If you believe role claiming is necessary then how would you factor in not knowing all of the roles in this game?
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No one should role claim. The answer is obvious, the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages. For example, let's look at it from several ways.
Pros and cons:
Pros:
-MIGHT find mafia
-they can't change later
-coordinate blues possibly
Cons:
Mafia can snipe off blues.
Mafia can fake roleclaim easily.
With no pms, it'll be hard to coordinate anyway.
Now let's take a look at it in real circumstances. We mass roleclaim. Mafia roleclaim just some stuff, pick random generic roles(or just copy from what they see townies doing). The only way we can find out who's who is by checking with dt's. Unfortunately, we've already revealed them. So it'll be like the same, except medics know who to protect, but mafia also know who to shoot(medics/dts.) Basically they'll just snipe us off one by one, and at best they'll go through medics, and then go th rough us.
If we're going to roleclaim at all, it should only be like one person at a time, in certain circumstances when you feel it will be EXTREMELY beneficial to the town. Be very cautious if you are thinking about roleclaiming, think: "Do you need to?"
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On October 29 2010 12:44 Coagulation wrote:
bumatlarge. as a campaigning candidate for mayor what is your political stance on bandwagoning
are you pro Bandwagon
or Anti bandwagon
plz explain
As for this, what the fadoodle? Bandwagoning is NEVER good, townies should make logical decisions. Either this was a horrible attempt at fishing or your just a clueless scum :/. Hopefully the latter.
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Roleclaiming is especially bad in this format. Normally I'd put it at meh bad, but when you dont know what kinda roles are around, it's 99% of the time bad.
Bandwagoning usually narrows it down. If someone wins by a landslide, mafia either doesnt care about mayor, or there is a mafia mayor. This puts enormous amounts of suspicion on them which is very bad for scum-mayors. Doesn't happen often or when mafia is very laid-back.
Anti-bandwagoning is generally pro-town, as there are certain to be townies who ran for the position. It leads to more options for everyone and alot more analysis for town to do.
If we are talking about lynching, bandwagoning usually means lynchee isn't scum, unless mafia are busing properly. You need to pay attention to who votes what and when. In this format, I'd imagine there is some role that can check some vote-list for mafia and such. Very strong role that is helped by split votes.
I think it's safe to say that I'm generally anti-bandwagon unless there is good reasons.
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On October 29 2010 13:02 Pandain wrote:
No one should role claim. The answer is obvious, the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages. For example, let's look at it from several ways.
Pros and cons:
Pros:
-MIGHT find mafia
-they can't change later
-coordinate blues possibly
Cons:
Mafia can snipe off blues.
Mafia can fake roleclaim easily.
With no pms, it'll be hard to coordinate anyway.
Now let's take a look at it in real circumstances. We mass roleclaim. Mafia roleclaim just some stuff, pick random generic roles(or just copy from what they see townies doing). The only way we can find out who's who is by checking with dt's. Unfortunately, we've already revealed them. So it'll be like the same, except medics know who to protect, but mafia also know who to shoot(medics/dts.) Basically they'll just snipe us off one by one, and at best they'll go through medics, and then go th rough us.
If we're going to roleclaim at all, it should only be like one person at a time, in certain circumstances when you feel it will be EXTREMELY beneficial to the town. Be very cautious if you are thinking about roleclaiming, think: "Do you need to?"
Not directly replying to your post. Just saying if I were Mayor, there will be coordination.
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Alright, just got home from work and read through the thread briefly, I will post on the mayor candidates later. Just something to think about for now: The mafia kp is 2+1 and it is likely that a mafia role includes infecting someone with murrayitis. Could that +1 in the kp be referring to something else though? In haunted mafia certain roles could poison someone, who would then die one day later. Maybe that +1 is a different way of killing, since infecting someone with murrayitis doesn't really kill them. Sure, come day 4/5/6 it may kill the targets, but the mafia seems underpowered right now. Every townie is blue, and the normal ratio is about 19:6 town to mafia (right?)
so 3:1 town to mafia. Right now it is 39 , about 4:1 town to mafia.
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I think we should steer away from the idea of mass role-claiming. That works really well in games where there are definite listed roles and numbers of players per role. This game is so ambiguous with the role list it would be insane for the town to start role claiming. There's nothing to check them against, and we can't even be sure we have the ability to check.
With god awful plans like that I'm half considering running just to get people to wake up and discuss how we can organize the roles and who we want to be targeted or saved or infected. How should the mayor role be treated for the benefit of the town? Is it wise for us to cross our fingers and hope a legit DT (if any in the game) check the mayor to confirm? Will this result in 2 mafia members pulling the strings because of some misinformation? Should we have the DT (if any) create a circle and once again cross our fingers? Should the DT (if any) speak up the second he checks a mafia? What other roles are we speculating could be in this game?
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On October 29 2010 13:08 bumatlarge wrote:
Roleclaiming is especially bad in this format. Normally I'd put it at meh bad, but when you dont know what kinda roles are around, it's 99% of the time bad.
Bandwagoning usually narrows it down. If someone wins by a landslide, mafia either doesnt care about mayor, or there is a mafia mayor. This puts enormous amounts of suspicion on them which is very bad for scum-mayors. Doesn't happen often or when mafia is very laid-back.
Anti-bandwagoning is generally pro-town, as there are certain to be townies who ran for the position. It leads to more options for everyone and alot more analysis for town to do.
If we are talking about lynching, bandwagoning usually means lynchee isn't scum, unless mafia are busing properly. You need to pay attention to who votes what and when. In this format, I'd imagine there is some role that can check some vote-list for mafia and such. Very strong role that is helped by split votes.
I think it's safe to say that I'm generally anti-bandwagon unless there is good reasons.
I believe he's talking about the nature of bandwagoning itself, as in, is it good to. And the answer to that is no, you should always be thinking for yourself. Your post referes to analyzing bandwagons, which is important, so I'll address it because I'm bored. Usually there are a couple reasons why bandwagoning occurs
1.Mafia orchestrate it
2.Townies are horribly disorganized and illogical(usually combined with #1)
3.Newer players just don't know
In analyzing a bandwagon, you need to look at several things. Who voted who, if they had made any contradictory opinions on the canidates they ended up voting for (scum tell), at what time they did, how each vote changed the distance between two canidates in vote numbers.
Bandwagons are just in general horrible, as they are formed from mob mentality rather than reason.
If I'm mayor, this will never happen. We will go through over lynch with precise detail, with debates and arguments. We will get all opinions. This is a democracy, and I would be proud to be your mayor.
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agh i need to preview before posting.
that is 39 : 9 where that emoticon is
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On October 29 2010 13:04 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 12:44 Coagulation wrote:
bumatlarge. as a campaigning candidate for mayor what is your political stance on bandwagoning
are you pro Bandwagon
or Anti bandwagon
plz explain As for this, what the fadoodle? Bandwagoning is NEVER good, townies should make logical decisions. Either this was a horrible attempt at fishing or your just a clueless scum :/. Hopefully the latter.
I think that's a bit narrow-minded. Sometimes what you can draw from an outcome can be more enlightening as the outcome itself. Bandwagoning without reason is always bad, as if I just said "We will kill pandain today, that is all" But if I say "We should kill pandain because so-and-so said such-and-such meaning we can clarify this-and-that and our odds of winning are better." I don't think bandwagoning means without reason, I think it means everyone getting behind a vote for a reason, and sometimes that reason is perfectly justifiable, while most of the time it isn't.
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I think there should be at least 1 dt in the game. In a normal mafia game where there are significant less players and vanila townies exist, there is still a dt or two. This game has 39 players, so it is safe to assume that dt exists.
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On October 29 2010 13:13 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I think we should steer away from the idea of mass role-claiming. That works really well in games where there are definite listed roles and numbers of players per role. This game is so ambiguous with the role list it would be insane for the town to start role claiming. There's nothing to check them against, and we can't even be sure we have the ability to check.
With god awful plans like that I'm half considering running just to get people to wake up and discuss how we can organize the roles and who we want to be targeted or saved or infected. How should the mayor role be treated for the benefit of the town? Is it wise for us to cross our fingers and hope a legit DT (if any in the game) check the mayor to confirm? Will this result in 2 mafia members pulling the strings because of some misinformation? Should we have the DT (if any) create a circle and once again cross our fingers? Should the DT (if any) speak up the second he checks a mafia? What other roles are we speculating could be in this game?
It's just some new players offering some ideas, all we have to do is explain why it won't work in this set up. As for your questions, right now I'm thinking this:
1.If you find a red, always claim. Medics will protect you and it'll be hard pressed for mafia to shoot you(even if they want to) since they know you'll be protected. So it's basically a win for town.
2. DT's can't create circles by themselves....however I'm thinking there's some ways to get around this
3.Dts and medics for sure. Vigis and vets very likely. Masons, mad hatters also possible, even likely with the large amount of players.
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On October 29 2010 13:13 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I think we should steer away from the idea of mass role-claiming. That works really well in games where there are definite listed roles and numbers of players per role. This game is so ambiguous with the role list it would be insane for the town to start role claiming. There's nothing to check them against, and we can't even be sure we have the ability to check.
With god awful plans like that I'm half considering running just to get people to wake up and discuss how we can organize the roles and who we want to be targeted or saved or infected. How should the mayor role be treated for the benefit of the town? Is it wise for us to cross our fingers and hope a legit DT (if any in the game) check the mayor to confirm? Will this result in 2 mafia members pulling the strings because of some misinformation? Should we have the DT (if any) create a circle and once again cross our fingers? Should the DT (if any) speak up the second he checks a mafia? What other roles are we speculating could be in this game?
DTs can't check a mayor with bodyguards normally, and no pms means no town circles.
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On October 29 2010 13:19 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 13:04 Pandain wrote:On October 29 2010 12:44 Coagulation wrote:
bumatlarge. as a campaigning candidate for mayor what is your political stance on bandwagoning
are you pro Bandwagon
or Anti bandwagon
plz explain As for this, what the fadoodle? Bandwagoning is NEVER good, townies should make logical decisions. Either this was a horrible attempt at fishing or your just a clueless scum :/. Hopefully the latter. I think that's a bit narrow-minded. Sometimes what you can draw from an outcome can be more enlightening as the outcome itself. Bandwagoning without reason is always bad, as if I just said "We will kill pandain today, that is all" But if I say "We should kill pandain because so-and-so said such-and-such meaning we can clarify this-and-that and our odds of winning are better." I don't think bandwagoning means without reason, I think it means everyone getting behind a vote for a reason, and sometimes that reason is perfectly justifiable, while most of the time it isn't.
That's not bandwagoning, that's deciding.
Unless you mean by bandwagon just a large group of people voting one person(rather than more than one), I can see that point.
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One way that dts can create circle is to post their finding in a encrypted message and post on this very thread and use their mod pm as the encryption code.
That way, only dts (or any blue role) can communication with each others (assuming that all dt (or any blue role) role pms are the same).
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On October 29 2010 13:27 LunarDestiny wrote:
One way that dts can create circle is to post their finding in a encrypted message and post on this very thread and use their mod pm as the encryption code.
That way, only dts (or any blue role) can communication with each others (assuming that all dt (or any blue role) role pms are the same).
While this would be neat, it's dangerous and might lead to some confusion. I think one game people tried to accuse each other based on the nature of the role PM it got. Turns out both mods sent out the PMs and they varied a bit, and they dropped the whole conversation. But if someone wants to hint at how their PM was made it could be clever way to figure out who is the same role as you, but without PMs, you can't really deduce more then that unless you invent your own secret codes in the middle of a mafia game. Masons or something along those lines could use it I suppose.
I just don't want you banking on this, and I don't want mafia being able to blue-snipe better because some fellow is talking in riddles.
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You know what, I'll just put this out there before I head to bed, so everyone listen up.
I will be running for Mayor.
- I'm a part of a circle, which its members are allowed to PM each other.
- This circle consists of 6 players.
- Every member knows who is in this circle.
- All member does not know each others role
- All member does not know each others alignment, whether Town or Mafia.
- There is a possibility that there is/are Mafia in this circle.
If I'm elected as Mayor, I'll be having the other 5 members role claim to me and the first step of coordination will start from there. We will have starting point. You might ask, why does it have to be me to become Mayor, and not someone else from the circle? Well, my role is critical to this circle, that is all I can say for now. Like mentioned in a previous post, I've never bothered to run for Mayor in any of my previous games, but this time, it's a little bit different. I'm running Mayor for the protection, to be able to give town a head start without worrying of getting killed the other day, at the same time utilizing our circle's power to a greater potential.
Then there will be the second question, what if I'm Mafia? Well, this can also apply to any other candidates that are currently running for Mayor. The fact that I'm openly sharing this piece of critical information above, already shows my motives are pro-town. Mafia would never announce that they are in a circle this early in the game, and would try to squeeze every piece of information they can get within. It is also very likely that there will be at least one Mafia within this circle, which means the entire Mafia team would know about the circle's existence. The only group left in the dark would be the rest of the Town, had I not come out and make this announcement.
Worst case scenario, I did not get elected, and Mafia kills me the next day; My role flips and everyone knows I wasn't lying. Even if the circle takes a huge hit, the Town as a whole would at least be aware of this other situation.
Once again, I am running for Mayor.
If I win, I will be role claiming right away.
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EPT
