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/in
Mafia games suck up soo much time though... oh well.
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On October 01 2010 15:27 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2010 15:03 Misder wrote:
/in
Mafia games suck up soo much time though... oh well. not for you they dont
Hey! Just because I dont post often, doesnt mean i dont take my time reading through the thread, thinking about what they mean, and making decisions.
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If we randomly pick, we might get the village idiot, if there is one. I think we need some sort of discussion to try and find the reds. I remember last game where I totally blew my cover as mafia on day 1, and all I did was try and act normal, so it's possible to distiguish who is mafia and who is not (although it depends on how good we are at red hunting).
On October 04 2010 12:10 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 11:23 Foolishness wrote:On October 04 2010 10:26 BrownBear wrote:
Incognito the Mighty Townie is now dead.
Qatol The Jailkeeper/Blue Operative is now dead.
BrownBear The Mayor/Blue Operative is now dead.
Artanis[xp] The Red Operative Leader is now dead.
Flamewheel The Green Cutie is now dead :3
Haha one person in the game is already dead. Who?
If I tell, will that person get mad? BrownBear, you know who it is 
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On October 04 2010 15:13 CynanMachae wrote:
Well if random pick is chosen, how would you suggest doing it so that it's fair and objective?
And Misder, there isn't really much red hunting possible on the first day...
I've never seen a random pick do much except lynch a townie. Then again, lynching an inactive also almost always leads to lynching a townie. IMO the only benefit from random is that if somehow, the votes start stacking on a mafia member randomly, but thats very very unlikely. Ehh, I kinda disagree on the no red hunting on the first day. I don't know how good the mafia are, but if they were as noob as me, its possible to tell who is mafia on day 1 (thanks to Ver for that analysis). Right now, we need to get people to post. So, does anyone have a plan?
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On October 05 2010 08:31 ghrur wrote:
Speaking of lynching, do we have to accuse before we can vote on the person? Or can we just type ##vote xxxxxxx?
If we don't need to accuse, should we do so anyway in the thread to start a discussion?
Also, I support the idea of non-random lynching. Random lynching has a greater chance of hitting blue or green instead of red. Random lynching also doesn't promote discussion which means there's less of a posting trail for later in the game.
For non-random lynching, I suggest lynching a suspicious active instead of an inactive. Inactives could be simply bored by the Day1 stuff, but become really useful later. An example would be the recent RAM game where Xelin was inactive in the beginning, but found a mafia member on his first accusation.
You technically can vote without any reason, but I always accuse along with vote. Voting without any analysis is pretty scummy in my book. Right now, I have some hunches on whos mafia, but I'm gonna hold back til there are more posts to work with. So, I'm probably going to vote for an inactive, unless something major happens.
On October 05 2010 09:29 SouthRawrea wrote:
This game:
There are several differences in this setup than regular mafia games in case you can't be bothered to read the role descriptions.
1) Detective must wait until Night 2 for investigation which is frankly not helpful as it is 1 less report overall per detective.
2) Vigilante gets their shot or bat back if they overlap with mafia. Not a huge deal as an overlap isn't that likely.
3) Godfather can fake Village Idiot. Frankly as some have stated before this may be a bit OP and is a very good reason for Vigilante to save their bat.
4) Roleblocker now cannot block someone twice in a row which make DT claiming a little more viable especially once mafia loses a KP.
5) Mafia can practically save a KP for the next day while the poisoner is still alive.
Three huge things to watch out for
1) Like stated earlier, the Vigilante must not shoot until we get a Village Idiot report as it is the only way of safely killing a potential Village Idiot/Godfather as town.
2) Mafia can continuously use poison from any point in the game and have on of their players claim hit Veteran. The mafia will then be able to unleash 3 NK at any one night from that point onwards while having 1 NK the night before the claim and 2 NK for every night in between. This can be dangerous if town is too trusting of the hit claim and/or forgets about the 3 NK.
Ex: Night 2 : 1 poison 1 shot
Day 2: 1 death, mafia claims hit
Night 3: 1 poison 1 shot
Day 3: 2 deaths
Night 4 1 poison 1 shot
Day 4: 2 deaths
Night 5: 2 shot
Day 5: 3 deaths
3) Finally in a Lylo situation with Village idiot still alive, mafia can have a joint-win with the Village Idiot by lynching him. This will result in the day ending with both the Village Idiot and the Mafia's win requirements being fulfilled. (VI gets lynched and mafia # = town #)
Detectives seem to have less of a role in this game. They can't make town circles and they lose a turn of finding red. Protactinium stated that detectives should shout out once they find a red. I think I agree with this as 1) there is a huge lynch target that day and 2) medics can protect the dectective, so effectively, we have a "town circle" without the need of PMs.
Vilgilante hits that overlap with mafia would probably indicate that the person getting hit is acting like the VI, since lynching the VI leads to both the town and the mafia loss. I don't know how this helps, but thats my thought.
Godfather as VI doesn't make much sense to me, just because there are vigilantes in the game (we should probably assume this as BB and Artanis making a game without vigilantes in games with a VI is pretty unlikely... that really would be OP). I think the biggest concern is if Godfather claims bulletproof. Vig wouldn't want to waste their hit trying to see if the claim is true because of the possibility of a VI, and a bulletproof is beneficial to the town and is an unlikely lynch target because the mafia can't kill (except poison).
Aye! I forgot about roleblockers. So above, if DT claims a red, its pretty much assured that mafia will roleblock the DT. I've personally never seen roleblockers do anything that turned the tide of the game, so I'm not exactly sure how important this is. One thing to note is that roleblockers can get rid of the bulletproof vest, so if you are one, dont claim in the thread, unless you get shot. (Just realized this kinda contridicts what I said before where godfather would claim bulletproof... but if godfather claims bulletproof in thread, its likely that a medic will try and save him)
I agree with SR. I think that its gonna be really suspicious to anyone who claims to get hit Night 1 though. Of course, claim if you really do get hit as veteran, but be prepared to defend yourself. Do we get to know who gets poisoned to death and who gets shot to death?
The VI and mafia collaboration thing only will happen late game for them to have a joint win, is that correct?
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On October 05 2010 12:47 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I'd rather you post your suspects now Mr. Misder?
What if mafia slay you at night?
=/
I think I rather wait. First, my suspicions aren't really big; they could be comepletely wrong, and I don't really have strong evidence. Plus, I'm still looking at different play styles from previous games. Second, this way, the mafia doesn't know whether I'm right or wrong, so if they really are scared, they're going to have to kill me If you guys really want, I'll post my suspicions, maybe to generate discussion or something on day 1.
Which reminds me, how do we decide which inactive to lynch?
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Personally, I don't see anything wrong about accusing on day 1. We all know that its really hard to find ev against people onday 1, but accusing generates responses, which is good.
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On October 06 2010 07:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 07:34 Pandain wrote:
I still believe Infun should be lynched if anyone, based around the fact he's technically off the "inactive list" while he hasn't really posted any content at all besides a link to a site.
My main reason is that I don't think we should lynch Cynan, and Infun is the best person we have. I think we should make a stand right here, and everyone should start to vote for someone, since the way it stands now it is too easy for mafia to manipulate the votes and it will be 100% NOT a scum lynched.
What information do we really get from lynching Infund? He's been posting information to assist DT's and Medics in carrying out their role effectively, I don't think he's been totally useless at all.
We shouldn't be lynching by what info we get from the lynch; most of the time, the conclusions are wrong, and the whole point of the game is to lynch the mafia. Infund only posted once this entire time, and it was a link to a guide that could have been found by googling. He didn't really post anything at all.
His one quote:
On October 05 2010 04:39 Infundibulum wrote:You are correct, Element 91. But Amber is also right that there are ways for the detective to push lynches on reds he checks, without role-claiming. If you are a detective I suggest you get creative; only roleclaim if you feel it is necessary. If you are a detective, you should probably read this page (if you haven't already) just to get an idea of the ways in which other people (namely mafias and medics) will be trying to find you in the thread: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=JEEP's_Tells_for_Finding_the_CopI think that's a pretty good comprehensive guide, but if there's any problems in it hopefully a more experienced player can point them out.
I'm really undecided who to vote for at this point. I think right now, its pretty useless trying to lynch an inactive. Theres about 4 hrs left, and the whole point of lynching an inactive is to pressure them to vote. I'm still going to vote for XeliN because he's played many games and I dont understand why hes not here.
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I would vote Infund, but I've played with him mafia last game, and he does a lot more accusing and spam in that game. He's not acting like he was when he was mafia before; he may have changed his playstyle, but that's pretty unlikely.
Also, I would like to say that a lot of mafia members like to post a lot in the beginning, seemingly to help out, but they hide later in the day. (someone like ~Opz~, for example, I've got suspicions on him; I don't know if they are good feelings or bad feelings).
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Actually, I’m just going to vote ~Opz~ right now instead of XeliN, just because of this tiny suspicion. I don’t know if I truly believe in that he is mafia, but I think he has a better chance at being mafia than XeliN.
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I'm actually surprised not too many people are voting for me, considering the fact that I did contridict myself twice; once when I said that I vote with reason (well technically I did... intuition and my limited knowledge on how mafia players work) and once when I said that mafia members are the ones who die out into the thread (which I basically disappeared from). I'm such a good target for the mafia to start a bandwagon. I don't know if this is a good thing that the town is not impulsive or a bad thing that the town doesn't really like to do analysis... (well ghrur did, and i think he makes good points). And pretty much yeah, I took a shot in the dark, and I think I pretty much shot myself instead.
Well this is what I had a while ago, but I never posted
"~Opz~
Ok, I’m looking at him from the perspective of Mafia XXX, the most recent normal game. In this game ~Opz~ was tracker. I guess this isn’t the most amazing analysis, and most people also act differently from a green townie and a blue, but I’ll try.
In day 1, as a blue ~Opz~ told the town what to do, coming up with plans, participating in the actual crux of what was going on.
On August 07 2010 02:26 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Okay. Vigi should claim Day 2 IMO because he can't use his night kill til night 2. The vigi can openly suggest his target, meds protect target. If 2 people die that night, and dude is protected from a hit then BAM, we have a huge circle formed with meds confirming the vigi, DT's can openly claim to vigi or use a mouth, Bus Driver should stay hidden I feel...except to maybe the meds.
And if it is a mafia ploy? We'd have netted two mafia. The fake vigi claimer, and the dude who was hit by the vigi because he would have to have been protected. All medics should protect the guy getting vigi'd so they get the protection message, or mafia would have to use all KP to stop the plan, GIVING us quite a few more days...
He never actually contributes in this game on Day 1, just blames all of the newcomers."
So my analysis of him before was when he was a blue role, pretty much irrelevant... I didn't look back at games even older, when I should have. When I actually looked at him more in dept than my intuition and one day of the game where he was blue, I've come to a conclusion that ~Opz~ is most likely town.
This is his quote from Mafia XXIII where he was actually townie.
On July 18 2010 15:34 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 08:12 Jayme wrote:On July 18 2010 08:03 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
RNG lynch is dumb because you have more of a chance to land on a townie, and then he could be a helpful townie.
if we lynch an inactive we're killing someone who probably would not have helped us anyway
however, i don't want to lynch someone that would just get modkilled since that's obviously a waste.
Bill, how many votes can someone miss before they get zapped? As far as I know they can't miss any votes at all. We have more of a chance to land on a townie with any day 1 method we choose simply due to the fact that there are 24 townies and 6 mafia...there is no way of avoiding this. As a matter of fact I would say we have a better chance of hitting a good red player through RNG because I mean...who's to say that this "good townie" isn't just a red being a good townie. I understand lynching an inactive is killing someone who wouldn't have helped anyway but you're still doing just that...just about guaranteeing a green lynch which is completely pointless. As I said before I'm willing to go with either, there isn't much we could do. The issue I see with RNG is verifying if it's actually RNG. Actually....I'm done for this....Let me read a little more and we'll see who I want to die.... Also, I'm tired of these idiotic plans. We can pm. Dt, check someone PM them, pass turn, check someone PM them and the other person, pass turn. Quit playing like idiots and realize the benefits of having PMs....Nubby ass mafioso. And go back and look at games with PM's day one, no body does anything that day... The best thing I could say is everyone Roleclaim to me, and lynch me today...Or wait til tomorrow and do it. I'd inform of match ups, over counts, and die out as proof. How does that sound? I can send the PM out, and inform before death of everyone who doesn't respond, over counts of roles, ect. ect. I could be checked night one if that would be a problem, (wouldn't recommend organized multi checking though) and lynched day 2. Even if I was god father, god father would be out and too many blues to snipe with a list of roles and over claims. *yawn* But I don't really wanna die too bad, or abuse how easy this game could be.
~Opz~ has a condescending tone this mafia game, just like he does in this game. When I was reading through his posts in XXIII, its mostly yelling at people. Also, I believe that he is town because of he said that Artanis wrote Townie on his PM. If he was mafia, he wouldn't make such a huge claim.
As for BM, I believe that he is VI. BM spammed most of Mafia XXX also, and he was ninja then. Question, what is the point of using an important vig shot on a supposed VI? Can't we just not lynch the VI and be done with? Or are we just afraid that then, mafia members can pose as VI and not get lynched?
So question: Can't the mafia not kill BM if they believe that BM is not VI? Also, if BM is VI and tomorrow we double lynch him, don't we also lose? We're are depending on the mafia for this lynch to work, and I don't really like it. Also, mafia wouldn't be killing who they believe to be townies, and BM is definitely not playing like he is blue
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Actually, I feel like I've been more active day 1 in this game than in the other games. But then I dropped off.
Pretty much, I agree with what everyone is saying about me not posting a list of who I think is mafia is true. The list comprised of intuition, however much that matters in this game. I think this game I've tried to analyse people from my perspective of being mafia, and didn't realize that other people think differently. Well, I don't know if you still want my list from day 1 since it doesn't mean much and most of its suspicion based on intuition, but it comprised of ~Opz~, DH, and Infund. Well, we know that infund is town, so that goes to show how bad I am at scum hunting...
And this may seem contridictory again, but where is kingjames? He was active day 1, and now hes gone.
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Also reading Pandains posts about my previous mafia game when I was townie actually surprised me. I didn't actually think I was contributing much in BMs game, probably cause Divenek was all like, Misder doesn't post enough and such, lol. Maybe I should start doing things I have done before... I actually don't feel like I'm taking a backseat in this game though. I feel more radical in this game than in other games where in other games, I only posted things I thought I had good evidence to and things that seemed obvious to me. And I should note that when I was mafia, I also answered why I voted for people. And that my analysis on larjarse was pretty much how I would write any analysis, besides the fact that I knew he really wasnt mafia, but I did that just like I would as part of the town.
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On October 05 2010 10:55 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 22:21 Amber[LighT] wrote:On October 04 2010 18:58 Protactinium wrote:
Oh, and Detectives, you are not sleuths in this game. You are suicide cops. There is no passing your knowledge on. If you strike gold, er, red, shout out. Don't keep it to yourself, since if you die you take your findings to the grave. Shout out the name of the Mafia, then the names of those you have cleared. If everything goes correctly and Mafia are out for revenge, you should die bloodied and lacerated at night. But at least you'll have done your job.
Detectives, beware the Godfather. It doesn't deny in the Original Post that he can assume the mantle of the Village Idiot, which would make him close to unkillable, disregarding the Vigilante. More thoughts on this later, but if you are a Private Eye and you find the Town Fool, be wary if/when you choose to spill your secret findings to the world.
Oh, and lastly, lynch an inactive. If they are town-aligned, they're not going to be contributing anyway. Might as well get them out of the game to save some trouble later on, since with a lack of Behavior Analysts reds shouldn't be expected to be caught day 1 anyway.
. No. No. AND No. Detectives should not feel that they need to out themselves upon finding someone out. Their abilities are _REALLY_ powerful in this game and we need them to be cautious and analytical in their findings. There is a reason they can't act until NIGHT 2. The one major reason NO Detective should out themselves is because of the miller role. There's no way to sift through posts to gather a reading on a player that could be green/blue and come up red on a check. This is like a reverse sanity check for the Detective. What's going to happen when a DT outs themselves claiming they found a red and then we lynch a blue/green?! Guess who's on the chopping block the next day? That's 2 DAY cycles we miss hitting mafia because of useless knowledge. Their abilities should be used to gather a town circle. Trust the players you check, and take risks in others you think are secure. Do not fear the Godfather. The chances of checking him are very slim. Regardless, his role only buys the mafia a day and he is in the same bucket as the millers. They will need extra attention. DT's once again: Trust your checks. We can go back and find out who's siphoning information out of your circles later. They can be caught, but it's up to you to play smart. If you think you checked someone and the check doesn't match up, then try to get the town to discuss it WITHOUT outing yourself. You're going to just accuse another player anyway, and we (the town) will try to protect you. Lynching an inactive is almost a guarantee at lynching a pro-town role. If they don't want to participate and play like crap, then fine. But they need to vote pro-town at the very least. Don't lynch someone who can make the difference... Most townies play with this stupid passive role as though they should just be quiet. NO. If you are a townie start speaking up! Your job is to look through posting etiquette and weed out "bad" posts. Be careful of traps, like this gem: On October 04 2010 19:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:On October 04 2010 12:49 Amber[LighT] wrote:
So I'm gonna be asleep so I'm gonna just start now:
We should work on figuring out how we want to go about voting on Day 1. We can:
-Randomly Pick
-Pick an Inactive
-Pick an Active
I think of these three we should just go for a random pick. It seems that every time we choose an inactive the game just gets caught in a battle between 2 town groups, which never have mafia in them anyway!
It also might be a good idea to first design a plan (or 2 or 3) for how we want the blues to act over the next few days. We will want to keep our Detectives out of sight until day 2. Sadly I don't think outing them is the best option, so it's going to really be up to them to be really good at concealing themselves tonight. The same thing should apply to our vigilantes.
Pretty much our night 1 decisions need to be for the medics only. It's really hard to point out the people who should be saved, or how many people will be saved, so we should really let them use their best judgment while giving them a list of people to protect.
I'm going to state this now: I am going to be against role claiming, and I don't want to end up ruining the spirit of the game by doing this (as I feel it does). ...Wow....obviously.... -______- Derp typical OpZ day1 post. Don't expect much more from him until Day 2, just a guess. Hey hey hey, don't get all resentful on me. Lol. Come on. Those three ways are always deci---wait....lot of new people this game. My bad. I'll be more helpful then Oh. Hmm...Maybe I should add to the discussion more so next time. Personally.... Too all new players. Do not attach any kind of feelings to anyone trying to give you "good" direction. Distrust them. Even if they sound completely beneficial. Do not trust them. Do not trust me. Do not trust this post.. Ok, gonna look through some stuff. Gf might try and stop me, and gotta go smoke a cig with Champ. Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos Our goal is to mafia kill. We kill suspicious people. It's what we do. It's our....Thaaaaaang. Mafia better be better at sniping then town, that's all I gotta say on that. Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 22:27 Amber[LighT] wrote:Pandains post: + Show Spoiler +On October 04 2010 17:52 Pandain wrote:
Alright I have high hopes for this game, lots of interesting roles(even for mafia). I'd like to offer my thoughts on some of them and what I think they would want to do, just common advice i suppose.
Medic: Protect people who you think are going to get hit(duh.You would be pretty dumb if you didn't.) This can include active pro town-seeming people, people you think are blue, people you think are going to be hit, or just decide your own path and be a rebel.
DT: Protect who you have a suspicion of, including but not limited to
1.People acting out of character
2.Lurking people
Veteran or Bulletproof: Try to soak up hits, but don't be too obvious. Under NO even remotely normal circumstances should any of these claim, as then the mafia will just stray away from shooting them. The only time they should claim is if they got hit
Then we got the two town KP roles, both very interesting in this game. Let's go over them.
Mad Hatter
This role is very dangerous. In the hands of a good player, it can win the game, in the hands of a bad(or just bad luck) it can lose the game. For example, in Bill Murray's game Citizen,zeks, and sinquity managed to stall mafia by revealing they had a mad hatter, and had bombs on mafia.
However, just as it seemed we were about to win Xelin the suicide bomber came in and killed 5 people, and zeks had a bomb on infun meaning another one died. MH has to be very careful with your bombs, but always place one(as we can get more info/chance) and the fact you can always move it.
Vigilante
The most interesting role for me. Now it says he CAN use it starting night two, but should we have him? I say starting night two we make a vote/tally of who to kill as an "additional lynch." And if we're really not sure, we don't even have to use him. In fact, he might just ignore us or not even exist. However, I'm hoping the town consensus will convince him unless he has a REALLY good read on someone.
But more importantly, he will help us solve the Village Idiot Conundrum. That is, how do we know if a sucipious/scum looking person will not have been the VI the whole time! If we're stuck on that problem , we can use the vigilante to safely remove him. More devilishly, we can not lynch him and say we're going to lynch him next night, so if he's not mafia they will have to make a choice whether to risk having the VI lynched. Then we can even waste a kp, in addition to the possible fact he may have lived because he actually IS mafia.
But that's just getting into theory now, let's go back to what we can do now. Basically, we're at the part where Amber}Light says we are, where we can do one of three things.
1. Lynch an inactive
2.Randomly pick someone (PS KingJames you go to a random number generator on a website or w/e)
3.Lynch a suspicious person
In two options(#1 and 3), the village idiot plays a large role in our decision. How do we know a sucipsious/inactive person isn't simply playing that role so then they will get lynched? The thing is, we don't. We'll have to use our best logic. I am against #2 on the basis of pure statistics. Assuming we have all blue roles, there is a greater chance of lynching a blue than a mafia.
I like lynching inactives for a number of reasons
1.Usually are never blues(almost always townies)
2.Forces people to get talking
3.Provides us with more info(via the result of #2)
Now let me say this: I might not lynch an inactive person. But if I don't push it, I will push you getting vigi'd. I want at least 2 good posts from everyone by the end of the day. As of right now I would hope to see your opinion on what to do today at the very least. Also I'm going to agree with Pandain for the time being. We need to understand how people play. Everyone should post or at least make an attempt to post. Try to use your strengths to figuring out mafia players. It's hard with a blank canvas, so think of a creative way to get the mafia to jump out. I'm in favor of use a random number generator to out someone. The person should then make a convincing claim so we can at least have something to work from.
I was going to suggest a PM tactic for the Day 1 lynch, but this is a NO PM GAME. So this could get tricky :/ p.s. Typical Amber blunder? Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 00:10 Divinek wrote:On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos chaos is the mafia way. It's far better to try and get something out of people by pressuring them and forcing them to talk than just going 'oh well we RNG'd a hit now no one needs to talk for the rest of the day' Not to mention who's doing said "RNG"-ing. Amirite? -__- Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 06:16 Happy.fairytail wrote:
I actually don't think there's a difference whether we pick by random or inactive because:
a) Inactive doesn't necessarily mean non-blue. I've seen plenty of games where the DT was very quiet and seemingly inactive. He evaded all mafia suspicion and survived to the mid game and revealed himself. With himself and 3 innocent townsperson, he was able to establish a lasting majority against the mafia and win.
b) We have an equal chance of picking a village idiot whether we go random or inactive. It's not like we have special insight into the idiot's tactics that would give us an edge in determining one method or the other.
I think the two most important things are:
a) Communication. The upside far outweighs the downside, and I think we all agree here, no need to explain further.
b) We lynch someone every round. I'm going to prove this for another post statistically... That DT blew chunks, and so did that mafia. Fuck that three innocent townspersons were dumb too. Anyway, no. DT if you find a red bloke, I want you to build an argument for why he is mafia. Tell us what he is/is not doing that is/is not helping to town. I want you to lay into him. Be relentless. Don't pull no fucking punches. If his mama's a tramp, I want you to let us know. Shiaaaaaaat. So ignore this kid's advice. It's weak sauce. -___- Quiet people often get sniped by mafia toooooo. (Unless Radfield/Ace/L are playing) Eh...Kinda got the Village idiot post. It was pretty smart thinking with Village Idiot/Mafia win....So we do gotta be careful, cuz if village idiot is down to last 3 "Hai I'm VI, lynch me!!" Mafia just have to wait for him to vote for himself. Lol.
I don't really agree that ~Opz~ said anything important in this post. 1) He says that hes not used to all the newcomers and says that newcomers should trust anyone. So to a newcomer, does one trust the post or not? Not really helpful to anyone, and it just messes with the mind. 2) He says that the point of mafia is to kill the mafia, but then implies that town sucks at scum hunting, saying that mafia better be good at green hunting, cause thats the only way we can win. At least thats how I read it. 3) Points out Amber's mistake and calls it typical. Not important I dont think cause anyone who read the OP knows its a no PM game. 4) Don't actually know what hes saying here. I think hes implying that we never actually know whos doing the RNG, and that some people can say that they RNG and they don't. I guess it kinda helps, but I don't even know if thats what he meant by that point, so no idea whether or not it helps him. 5) He just again becomes condescending, and tells everyone not to listen to happy's advice cause its weak.
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On October 08 2010 11:21 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 11:16 Misder wrote:
Also reading Pandains posts about my previous mafia game when I was townie actually surprised me. I didn't actually think I was contributing much in BMs game, probably cause Divenek was all like, Misder doesn't post enough and such, lol. Maybe I should start doing things I have done before... I actually don't feel like I'm taking a backseat in this game though. I feel more radical in this game than in other games where in other games, I only posted things I thought I had good evidence to and things that seemed obvious to me. And I should note that when I was mafia, I also answered why I voted for people. And that my analysis on larjarse was pretty much how I would write any analysis, besides the fact that I knew he really wasnt mafia, but I did that just like I would as part of the town. Yet thats the thing. You haven't. You claim to not want to lynch an inactive and then vote to lynch Xelin the sentence after. Then 5 minutes later you change it to opz because of a "vague suspicion" which you haven't clarified until now. You haven't given thoughts on really anyone besides Opz just now, and plainly I'm unsure as to whether you would have had we not pressured you. And when you were mafia, of course you answered why you voted for people. You were under attack. Also note that contributive =/= posting. A person who posts a page every 5 pages is better than the person who posts a paragraph every 1 page. Its quality that matters, not quanity. And frankly, I haven't seen any from you yet. + Show Spoiler +(Also, anyone who didn't spam in that game was inactive :p)
I'm pretty sure I said I didn't want to lynch an inactive, and I didn't vote to lynch Xelin. I just asked where he was and that hes usually active in mafia games. That was my original idea for voting for lynching Xelin. I probably didn't say this in the thread, which I should, noted in the future, is that because of his experience, it gives him the exception. I didn't want to lynch an inactive because it was too late to pressure them to contribute, which is the point of lynching an inactive. I would suspect that Xelin reads the thread, and actually contribute, especially since he knows how to contribute.
No, I wasn't attacked during Day 1 nor Day 2 of that game and I still gave analysis. Only on Day 3 was I attacked, and was I on the defensive.
I agree that contributing =/= posting. Look at BM spamming this thread previously lol. Problem is that no one backed me up in that game, and Divinek was calling me out like every single post. Whatever, I 'm pretty sure I know how to improve- stop making posts and claims that have no reasons backing that up. I pretty much screwed that up Day 1.
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On October 08 2010 11:35 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 11:27 Misder wrote:On October 05 2010 10:55 ~OpZ~ wrote:On October 04 2010 22:21 Amber[LighT] wrote:On October 04 2010 18:58 Protactinium wrote:
Oh, and Detectives, you are not sleuths in this game. You are suicide cops. There is no passing your knowledge on. If you strike gold, er, red, shout out. Don't keep it to yourself, since if you die you take your findings to the grave. Shout out the name of the Mafia, then the names of those you have cleared. If everything goes correctly and Mafia are out for revenge, you should die bloodied and lacerated at night. But at least you'll have done your job.
Detectives, beware the Godfather. It doesn't deny in the Original Post that he can assume the mantle of the Village Idiot, which would make him close to unkillable, disregarding the Vigilante. More thoughts on this later, but if you are a Private Eye and you find the Town Fool, be wary if/when you choose to spill your secret findings to the world.
Oh, and lastly, lynch an inactive. If they are town-aligned, they're not going to be contributing anyway. Might as well get them out of the game to save some trouble later on, since with a lack of Behavior Analysts reds shouldn't be expected to be caught day 1 anyway.
. No. No. AND No. Detectives should not feel that they need to out themselves upon finding someone out. Their abilities are _REALLY_ powerful in this game and we need them to be cautious and analytical in their findings. There is a reason they can't act until NIGHT 2. The one major reason NO Detective should out themselves is because of the miller role. There's no way to sift through posts to gather a reading on a player that could be green/blue and come up red on a check. This is like a reverse sanity check for the Detective. What's going to happen when a DT outs themselves claiming they found a red and then we lynch a blue/green?! Guess who's on the chopping block the next day? That's 2 DAY cycles we miss hitting mafia because of useless knowledge. Their abilities should be used to gather a town circle. Trust the players you check, and take risks in others you think are secure. Do not fear the Godfather. The chances of checking him are very slim. Regardless, his role only buys the mafia a day and he is in the same bucket as the millers. They will need extra attention. DT's once again: Trust your checks. We can go back and find out who's siphoning information out of your circles later. They can be caught, but it's up to you to play smart. If you think you checked someone and the check doesn't match up, then try to get the town to discuss it WITHOUT outing yourself. You're going to just accuse another player anyway, and we (the town) will try to protect you. Lynching an inactive is almost a guarantee at lynching a pro-town role. If they don't want to participate and play like crap, then fine. But they need to vote pro-town at the very least. Don't lynch someone who can make the difference... Most townies play with this stupid passive role as though they should just be quiet. NO. If you are a townie start speaking up! Your job is to look through posting etiquette and weed out "bad" posts. Be careful of traps, like this gem: On October 04 2010 19:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:On October 04 2010 12:49 Amber[LighT] wrote:
So I'm gonna be asleep so I'm gonna just start now:
We should work on figuring out how we want to go about voting on Day 1. We can:
-Randomly Pick
-Pick an Inactive
-Pick an Active
I think of these three we should just go for a random pick. It seems that every time we choose an inactive the game just gets caught in a battle between 2 town groups, which never have mafia in them anyway!
It also might be a good idea to first design a plan (or 2 or 3) for how we want the blues to act over the next few days. We will want to keep our Detectives out of sight until day 2. Sadly I don't think outing them is the best option, so it's going to really be up to them to be really good at concealing themselves tonight. The same thing should apply to our vigilantes.
Pretty much our night 1 decisions need to be for the medics only. It's really hard to point out the people who should be saved, or how many people will be saved, so we should really let them use their best judgment while giving them a list of people to protect.
I'm going to state this now: I am going to be against role claiming, and I don't want to end up ruining the spirit of the game by doing this (as I feel it does). ...Wow....obviously.... -______- Derp typical OpZ day1 post. Don't expect much more from him until Day 2, just a guess. Hey hey hey, don't get all resentful on me. Lol. Come on. Those three ways are always deci---wait....lot of new people this game. My bad. I'll be more helpful then Oh. Hmm...Maybe I should add to the discussion more so next time. Personally.... Too all new players. Do not attach any kind of feelings to anyone trying to give you "good" direction. Distrust them. Even if they sound completely beneficial. Do not trust them. Do not trust me. Do not trust this post.. Ok, gonna look through some stuff. Gf might try and stop me, and gotta go smoke a cig with Champ. On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos Our goal is to mafia kill. We kill suspicious people. It's what we do. It's our....Thaaaaaang. Mafia better be better at sniping then town, that's all I gotta say on that. On October 04 2010 22:27 Amber[LighT] wrote:Pandains post: + Show Spoiler +On October 04 2010 17:52 Pandain wrote:
Alright I have high hopes for this game, lots of interesting roles(even for mafia). I'd like to offer my thoughts on some of them and what I think they would want to do, just common advice i suppose.
Medic: Protect people who you think are going to get hit(duh.You would be pretty dumb if you didn't.) This can include active pro town-seeming people, people you think are blue, people you think are going to be hit, or just decide your own path and be a rebel.
DT: Protect who you have a suspicion of, including but not limited to
1.People acting out of character
2.Lurking people
Veteran or Bulletproof: Try to soak up hits, but don't be too obvious. Under NO even remotely normal circumstances should any of these claim, as then the mafia will just stray away from shooting them. The only time they should claim is if they got hit
Then we got the two town KP roles, both very interesting in this game. Let's go over them.
Mad Hatter
This role is very dangerous. In the hands of a good player, it can win the game, in the hands of a bad(or just bad luck) it can lose the game. For example, in Bill Murray's game Citizen,zeks, and sinquity managed to stall mafia by revealing they had a mad hatter, and had bombs on mafia.
However, just as it seemed we were about to win Xelin the suicide bomber came in and killed 5 people, and zeks had a bomb on infun meaning another one died. MH has to be very careful with your bombs, but always place one(as we can get more info/chance) and the fact you can always move it.
Vigilante
The most interesting role for me. Now it says he CAN use it starting night two, but should we have him? I say starting night two we make a vote/tally of who to kill as an "additional lynch." And if we're really not sure, we don't even have to use him. In fact, he might just ignore us or not even exist. However, I'm hoping the town consensus will convince him unless he has a REALLY good read on someone.
But more importantly, he will help us solve the Village Idiot Conundrum. That is, how do we know if a sucipious/scum looking person will not have been the VI the whole time! If we're stuck on that problem , we can use the vigilante to safely remove him. More devilishly, we can not lynch him and say we're going to lynch him next night, so if he's not mafia they will have to make a choice whether to risk having the VI lynched. Then we can even waste a kp, in addition to the possible fact he may have lived because he actually IS mafia.
But that's just getting into theory now, let's go back to what we can do now. Basically, we're at the part where Amber}Light says we are, where we can do one of three things.
1. Lynch an inactive
2.Randomly pick someone (PS KingJames you go to a random number generator on a website or w/e)
3.Lynch a suspicious person
In two options(#1 and 3), the village idiot plays a large role in our decision. How do we know a sucipsious/inactive person isn't simply playing that role so then they will get lynched? The thing is, we don't. We'll have to use our best logic. I am against #2 on the basis of pure statistics. Assuming we have all blue roles, there is a greater chance of lynching a blue than a mafia.
I like lynching inactives for a number of reasons
1.Usually are never blues(almost always townies)
2.Forces people to get talking
3.Provides us with more info(via the result of #2)
Now let me say this: I might not lynch an inactive person. But if I don't push it, I will push you getting vigi'd. I want at least 2 good posts from everyone by the end of the day. As of right now I would hope to see your opinion on what to do today at the very least. Also I'm going to agree with Pandain for the time being. We need to understand how people play. Everyone should post or at least make an attempt to post. Try to use your strengths to figuring out mafia players. It's hard with a blank canvas, so think of a creative way to get the mafia to jump out. I'm in favor of use a random number generator to out someone. The person should then make a convincing claim so we can at least have something to work from.
I was going to suggest a PM tactic for the Day 1 lynch, but this is a NO PM GAME. So this could get tricky :/ p.s. Typical Amber blunder? On October 05 2010 00:10 Divinek wrote:On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos chaos is the mafia way. It's far better to try and get something out of people by pressuring them and forcing them to talk than just going 'oh well we RNG'd a hit now no one needs to talk for the rest of the day' Not to mention who's doing said "RNG"-ing. Amirite? -__- On October 05 2010 06:16 Happy.fairytail wrote:
I actually don't think there's a difference whether we pick by random or inactive because:
a) Inactive doesn't necessarily mean non-blue. I've seen plenty of games where the DT was very quiet and seemingly inactive. He evaded all mafia suspicion and survived to the mid game and revealed himself. With himself and 3 innocent townsperson, he was able to establish a lasting majority against the mafia and win.
b) We have an equal chance of picking a village idiot whether we go random or inactive. It's not like we have special insight into the idiot's tactics that would give us an edge in determining one method or the other.
I think the two most important things are:
a) Communication. The upside far outweighs the downside, and I think we all agree here, no need to explain further.
b) We lynch someone every round. I'm going to prove this for another post statistically... That DT blew chunks, and so did that mafia. Fuck that three innocent townspersons were dumb too. Anyway, no. DT if you find a red bloke, I want you to build an argument for why he is mafia. Tell us what he is/is not doing that is/is not helping to town. I want you to lay into him. Be relentless. Don't pull no fucking punches. If his mama's a tramp, I want you to let us know. Shiaaaaaaat. So ignore this kid's advice. It's weak sauce. -___- Quiet people often get sniped by mafia toooooo. (Unless Radfield/Ace/L are playing) Eh...Kinda got the Village idiot post. It was pretty smart thinking with Village Idiot/Mafia win....So we do gotta be careful, cuz if village idiot is down to last 3 "Hai I'm VI, lynch me!!" Mafia just have to wait for him to vote for himself. Lol. I don't really agree that ~Opz~ said anything important in this post. 1) He says that hes not used to all the newcomers and says that newcomers should trust anyone. So to a newcomer, does one trust the post or not? Not really helpful to anyone, and it just messes with the mind. 2) He says that the point of mafia is to kill the mafia, but then implies that town sucks at scum hunting, saying that mafia better be good at green hunting, cause thats the only way we can win. At least thats how I read it. 3) Points out Amber's mistake and calls it typical. Not important I dont think cause anyone who read the OP knows its a no PM game. 4) Don't actually know what hes saying here. I think hes implying that we never actually know whos doing the RNG, and that some people can say that they RNG and they don't. I guess it kinda helps, but I don't even know if thats what he meant by that point, so no idea whether or not it helps him. 5) He just again becomes condescending, and tells everyone not to listen to happy's advice cause its weak. He commented DT should not claim, but instead try to build an argument someone is mafia without roleclaiming. Also, if you could group all your defense in one post so I can consider/respond to it easily as well as other's that would be nice. I feel bad when I post like this :/
Yeah sorry about that. I feel like BM spamming this thread lol, but I am responding to your new posts so thats why my defense is not in one post.
He doesn't say that DT shouldn't roleclaim, he just says that DT shouldn't be lurking/inactive, and if they find a red, find ev that they are red. So, I guess that one line is helpful in a way, but come on, I think I make posts that have one line of helpfulness.
On October 06 2010 09:11 Misder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 07:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 06 2010 07:34 Pandain wrote:
I still believe Infun should be lynched if anyone, based around the fact he's technically off the "inactive list" while he hasn't really posted any content at all besides a link to a site.
My main reason is that I don't think we should lynch Cynan, and Infun is the best person we have. I think we should make a stand right here, and everyone should start to vote for someone, since the way it stands now it is too easy for mafia to manipulate the votes and it will be 100% NOT a scum lynched.
What information do we really get from lynching Infund? He's been posting information to assist DT's and Medics in carrying out their role effectively, I don't think he's been totally useless at all. We shouldn't be lynching by what info we get from the lynch; most of the time, the conclusions are wrong, and the whole point of the game is to lynch the mafia. Infund only posted once this entire time, and it was a link to a guide that could have been found by googling. He didn't really post anything at all. His one quote: Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 04:39 Infundibulum wrote:You are correct, Element 91. But Amber is also right that there are ways for the detective to push lynches on reds he checks, without role-claiming. If you are a detective I suggest you get creative; only roleclaim if you feel it is necessary. If you are a detective, you should probably read this page (if you haven't already) just to get an idea of the ways in which other people (namely mafias and medics) will be trying to find you in the thread: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=JEEP's_Tells_for_Finding_the_CopI think that's a pretty good comprehensive guide, but if there's any problems in it hopefully a more experienced player can point them out. I'm really undecided who to vote for at this point. I think right now, its pretty useless trying to lynch an inactive. Theres about 4 hrs left, and the whole point of lynching an inactive is to pressure them to vote. I'm still going to vote for XeliN because he's played many games and I dont understand why hes not here.
If I was there for the Protactinium bandwagon, I would have pointed this out. The purpose of the game for the town is to lynch MAFIA, not opinions on whether smurfs are legit or not, and other crappy reasons.
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On October 08 2010 14:17 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 11:27 Misder wrote:On October 05 2010 10:55 ~OpZ~ wrote:On October 04 2010 22:21 Amber[LighT] wrote:On October 04 2010 18:58 Protactinium wrote:
Oh, and Detectives, you are not sleuths in this game. You are suicide cops. There is no passing your knowledge on. If you strike gold, er, red, shout out. Don't keep it to yourself, since if you die you take your findings to the grave. Shout out the name of the Mafia, then the names of those you have cleared. If everything goes correctly and Mafia are out for revenge, you should die bloodied and lacerated at night. But at least you'll have done your job.
Detectives, beware the Godfather. It doesn't deny in the Original Post that he can assume the mantle of the Village Idiot, which would make him close to unkillable, disregarding the Vigilante. More thoughts on this later, but if you are a Private Eye and you find the Town Fool, be wary if/when you choose to spill your secret findings to the world.
Oh, and lastly, lynch an inactive. If they are town-aligned, they're not going to be contributing anyway. Might as well get them out of the game to save some trouble later on, since with a lack of Behavior Analysts reds shouldn't be expected to be caught day 1 anyway.
. No. No. AND No. Detectives should not feel that they need to out themselves upon finding someone out. Their abilities are _REALLY_ powerful in this game and we need them to be cautious and analytical in their findings. There is a reason they can't act until NIGHT 2. The one major reason NO Detective should out themselves is because of the miller role. There's no way to sift through posts to gather a reading on a player that could be green/blue and come up red on a check. This is like a reverse sanity check for the Detective. What's going to happen when a DT outs themselves claiming they found a red and then we lynch a blue/green?! Guess who's on the chopping block the next day? That's 2 DAY cycles we miss hitting mafia because of useless knowledge. Their abilities should be used to gather a town circle. Trust the players you check, and take risks in others you think are secure. Do not fear the Godfather. The chances of checking him are very slim. Regardless, his role only buys the mafia a day and he is in the same bucket as the millers. They will need extra attention. DT's once again: Trust your checks. We can go back and find out who's siphoning information out of your circles later. They can be caught, but it's up to you to play smart. If you think you checked someone and the check doesn't match up, then try to get the town to discuss it WITHOUT outing yourself. You're going to just accuse another player anyway, and we (the town) will try to protect you. Lynching an inactive is almost a guarantee at lynching a pro-town role. If they don't want to participate and play like crap, then fine. But they need to vote pro-town at the very least. Don't lynch someone who can make the difference... Most townies play with this stupid passive role as though they should just be quiet. NO. If you are a townie start speaking up! Your job is to look through posting etiquette and weed out "bad" posts. Be careful of traps, like this gem: On October 04 2010 19:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:On October 04 2010 12:49 Amber[LighT] wrote:
So I'm gonna be asleep so I'm gonna just start now:
We should work on figuring out how we want to go about voting on Day 1. We can:
-Randomly Pick
-Pick an Inactive
-Pick an Active
I think of these three we should just go for a random pick. It seems that every time we choose an inactive the game just gets caught in a battle between 2 town groups, which never have mafia in them anyway!
It also might be a good idea to first design a plan (or 2 or 3) for how we want the blues to act over the next few days. We will want to keep our Detectives out of sight until day 2. Sadly I don't think outing them is the best option, so it's going to really be up to them to be really good at concealing themselves tonight. The same thing should apply to our vigilantes.
Pretty much our night 1 decisions need to be for the medics only. It's really hard to point out the people who should be saved, or how many people will be saved, so we should really let them use their best judgment while giving them a list of people to protect.
I'm going to state this now: I am going to be against role claiming, and I don't want to end up ruining the spirit of the game by doing this (as I feel it does). ...Wow....obviously.... -______- Derp typical OpZ day1 post. Don't expect much more from him until Day 2, just a guess. Hey hey hey, don't get all resentful on me. Lol. Come on. Those three ways are always deci---wait....lot of new people this game. My bad. I'll be more helpful then Oh. Hmm...Maybe I should add to the discussion more so next time. Personally.... Too all new players. Do not attach any kind of feelings to anyone trying to give you "good" direction. Distrust them. Even if they sound completely beneficial. Do not trust them. Do not trust me. Do not trust this post.. Ok, gonna look through some stuff. Gf might try and stop me, and gotta go smoke a cig with Champ. On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos Our goal is to mafia kill. We kill suspicious people. It's what we do. It's our....Thaaaaaang. Mafia better be better at sniping then town, that's all I gotta say on that. On October 04 2010 22:27 Amber[LighT] wrote:Pandains post: + Show Spoiler +On October 04 2010 17:52 Pandain wrote:
Alright I have high hopes for this game, lots of interesting roles(even for mafia). I'd like to offer my thoughts on some of them and what I think they would want to do, just common advice i suppose.
Medic: Protect people who you think are going to get hit(duh.You would be pretty dumb if you didn't.) This can include active pro town-seeming people, people you think are blue, people you think are going to be hit, or just decide your own path and be a rebel.
DT: Protect who you have a suspicion of, including but not limited to
1.People acting out of character
2.Lurking people
Veteran or Bulletproof: Try to soak up hits, but don't be too obvious. Under NO even remotely normal circumstances should any of these claim, as then the mafia will just stray away from shooting them. The only time they should claim is if they got hit
Then we got the two town KP roles, both very interesting in this game. Let's go over them.
Mad Hatter
This role is very dangerous. In the hands of a good player, it can win the game, in the hands of a bad(or just bad luck) it can lose the game. For example, in Bill Murray's game Citizen,zeks, and sinquity managed to stall mafia by revealing they had a mad hatter, and had bombs on mafia.
However, just as it seemed we were about to win Xelin the suicide bomber came in and killed 5 people, and zeks had a bomb on infun meaning another one died. MH has to be very careful with your bombs, but always place one(as we can get more info/chance) and the fact you can always move it.
Vigilante
The most interesting role for me. Now it says he CAN use it starting night two, but should we have him? I say starting night two we make a vote/tally of who to kill as an "additional lynch." And if we're really not sure, we don't even have to use him. In fact, he might just ignore us or not even exist. However, I'm hoping the town consensus will convince him unless he has a REALLY good read on someone.
But more importantly, he will help us solve the Village Idiot Conundrum. That is, how do we know if a sucipious/scum looking person will not have been the VI the whole time! If we're stuck on that problem , we can use the vigilante to safely remove him. More devilishly, we can not lynch him and say we're going to lynch him next night, so if he's not mafia they will have to make a choice whether to risk having the VI lynched. Then we can even waste a kp, in addition to the possible fact he may have lived because he actually IS mafia.
But that's just getting into theory now, let's go back to what we can do now. Basically, we're at the part where Amber}Light says we are, where we can do one of three things.
1. Lynch an inactive
2.Randomly pick someone (PS KingJames you go to a random number generator on a website or w/e)
3.Lynch a suspicious person
In two options(#1 and 3), the village idiot plays a large role in our decision. How do we know a sucipsious/inactive person isn't simply playing that role so then they will get lynched? The thing is, we don't. We'll have to use our best logic. I am against #2 on the basis of pure statistics. Assuming we have all blue roles, there is a greater chance of lynching a blue than a mafia.
I like lynching inactives for a number of reasons
1.Usually are never blues(almost always townies)
2.Forces people to get talking
3.Provides us with more info(via the result of #2)
Now let me say this: I might not lynch an inactive person. But if I don't push it, I will push you getting vigi'd. I want at least 2 good posts from everyone by the end of the day. As of right now I would hope to see your opinion on what to do today at the very least. Also I'm going to agree with Pandain for the time being. We need to understand how people play. Everyone should post or at least make an attempt to post. Try to use your strengths to figuring out mafia players. It's hard with a blank canvas, so think of a creative way to get the mafia to jump out. I'm in favor of use a random number generator to out someone. The person should then make a convincing claim so we can at least have something to work from.
I was going to suggest a PM tactic for the Day 1 lynch, but this is a NO PM GAME. So this could get tricky :/ p.s. Typical Amber blunder? On October 05 2010 00:10 Divinek wrote:On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos chaos is the mafia way. It's far better to try and get something out of people by pressuring them and forcing them to talk than just going 'oh well we RNG'd a hit now no one needs to talk for the rest of the day' Not to mention who's doing said "RNG"-ing. Amirite? -__- On October 05 2010 06:16 Happy.fairytail wrote:
I actually don't think there's a difference whether we pick by random or inactive because:
a) Inactive doesn't necessarily mean non-blue. I've seen plenty of games where the DT was very quiet and seemingly inactive. He evaded all mafia suspicion and survived to the mid game and revealed himself. With himself and 3 innocent townsperson, he was able to establish a lasting majority against the mafia and win.
b) We have an equal chance of picking a village idiot whether we go random or inactive. It's not like we have special insight into the idiot's tactics that would give us an edge in determining one method or the other.
I think the two most important things are:
a) Communication. The upside far outweighs the downside, and I think we all agree here, no need to explain further.
b) We lynch someone every round. I'm going to prove this for another post statistically... That DT blew chunks, and so did that mafia. Fuck that three innocent townspersons were dumb too. Anyway, no. DT if you find a red bloke, I want you to build an argument for why he is mafia. Tell us what he is/is not doing that is/is not helping to town. I want you to lay into him. Be relentless. Don't pull no fucking punches. If his mama's a tramp, I want you to let us know. Shiaaaaaaat. So ignore this kid's advice. It's weak sauce. -___- Quiet people often get sniped by mafia toooooo. (Unless Radfield/Ace/L are playing) Eh...Kinda got the Village idiot post. It was pretty smart thinking with Village Idiot/Mafia win....So we do gotta be careful, cuz if village idiot is down to last 3 "Hai I'm VI, lynch me!!" Mafia just have to wait for him to vote for himself. Lol. I don't really agree that ~Opz~ said anything important in this post. 1) He says that hes not used to all the newcomers and says that newcomers should trust anyone. So to a newcomer, does one trust the post or not? Not really helpful to anyone, and it just messes with the mind. 2) He says that the point of mafia is to kill the mafia, but then implies that town sucks at scum hunting, saying that mafia better be good at green hunting, cause thats the only way we can win. At least thats how I read it. 3) Points out Amber's mistake and calls it typical. Not important I dont think cause anyone who read the OP knows its a no PM game. 4) Don't actually know what hes saying here. I think hes implying that we never actually know whos doing the RNG, and that some people can say that they RNG and they don't. I guess it kinda helps, but I don't even know if thats what he meant by that point, so no idea whether or not it helps him. 5) He just again becomes condescending, and tells everyone not to listen to happy's advice cause its weak. It was a post of mainly thread notes and comments. You don't like my thoughts? Whereforeartthou Amber?! (I musta missed some posts by him for a while) In the thread they were talking about RNGing a lynch candidate. Giving an idea to make it legit? Yea, happy's advice was weak. Oh, hey....Look at all my games as town, I make a post VERY similar to that one. Would you like me to find some?
I already said that you are most likely town in my eyes. I already looked at different mafia games, I already posted a quote from a game you were townie that was very similar to that one, so I agree that youre posting like you are as a townie. The only reason I was critiquing that quote was that Pandain brought it up and said that that quote was long and useful, and I said sure, maybe one line out of the entire quote, but thats not impressive as I did the same thing and he called my posting bad. If you want, I can do that too, and post all my thoughts on the quotes; I just don't find that constructive at all.
Question: you were trying to give an idea for RNGing?
I'm done, I think. If you guys truly believe I'm mafia, go ahead, lynch me. Again, the whole point is to lynch mafia. I'm pretty sure the points that were said that make me scummy were 1) I'm inconsistent and 2) I didn't back up my claims. Of course, these points are valid, but is it enough to say im mafia? If you are just lynching me because I'm a bad town player, then you're just hurting the town, and youre just wasting time while the mafia is hiding in the background, smiling at how they don't have to do any work, and just let the town fight with each other.
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Hmmmm, I think BC is scummy. First I'd like to extend BM posts on happy.fairytail's play. He talks about how happy said that he still hadnt read the thread yet, then 30min later, he says that he has analysis on all of it and its a shame he cant play. also, happys posts are pretty much not helpful at all. Then look at how BC is taking over. What has he done? Defended himself under the PM accusion (im only bringing it up for analysis on behavior), which wasnt really good, just saying BM is posting stupidly, and makes one post accusing Xelin. Sure, this may seam protown, but BC has pretty much not been active. This is exactly what BC did in Mafia XXIII where he was mafia; he posts couple of posts that are seemingly protown, then drops off. Therefore, I'm voting BC.
As for the double lynch, I find myself ageeing. At first, I didn't think we would have enough info, but now, with all the analysis that is going on, plus the night, I think we will be able to deduce the mafia. Of course, we have to be careful, no more careless mistakes.
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On October 09 2010 09:12 infinitestory wrote:WHOA I just caught up with this thread, and as I read through it, I noticed that Misder was a pretty big target, but he seems to have faded a bit due to a combination of the PM town/townie stuff and a bunch of other analyses. He also stopped being active despite being a big target. I initially thought Misder was just a slightly befuddled player, but some of his posts have made me rethink that. Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 10:51 Misder wrote:
I'm actually surprised not too many people are voting for me, considering the fact that I did contridict myself twice; once when I said that I vote with reason (well technically I did... intuition and my limited knowledge on how mafia players work) and once when I said that mafia members are the ones who die out into the thread (which I basically disappeared from). I'm such a good target for the mafia to start a bandwagon. I don't know if this is a good thing that the town is not impulsive or a bad thing that the town doesn't really like to do analysis... (well ghrur did, and i think he makes good points). And pretty much yeah, I took a shot in the dark, and I think I pretty much shot myself instead.
I find that this particular post doesn't actually say anything in his defense. If he's town, of course he should be apologetic for prior bad play (lol @ me :|). However, if he's mafia, he could try to get away with suspicious actions by calling them mistakes. This piece of a post just seems a little odd to me, because he's really pulling a roundabout defense. Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 11:03 Misder wrote:
Actually, I feel like I've been more active day 1 in this game than in the other games. But then I dropped off.
Pretty much, I agree with what everyone is saying about me not posting a list of who I think is mafia is true. The list comprised of intuition, however much that matters in this game. I think this game I've tried to analyse people from my perspective of being mafia, and didn't realize that other people think differently. Well, I don't know if you still want my list from day 1 since it doesn't mean much and most of its suspicion based on intuition, but it comprised of ~Opz~, DH, and Infund. Well, we know that infund is town, so that goes to show how bad I am at scum hunting...
And this may seem contridictory again, but where is kingjames? He was active day 1, and now hes gone. I'm actually pretty convinced that OpZ and DH are both good guys too. "Analyzing" people that are mafia from your perspective implies that you had logic behind it - where is that? More contradictions, I think, or you just used the wrong word. Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 11:16 Misder wrote:
Also reading Pandains posts about my previous mafia game when I was townie actually surprised me. I didn't actually think I was contributing much in BMs game, probably cause Divenek was all like, Misder doesn't post enough and such, lol. Maybe I should start doing things I have done before... I actually don't feel like I'm taking a backseat in this game though. I feel more radical in this game than in other games where in other games, I only posted things I thought I had good evidence to and things that seemed obvious to me. And I should note that when I was mafia, I also answered why I voted for people. And that my analysis on larjarse was pretty much how I would write any analysis, besides the fact that I knew he really wasnt mafia, but I did that just like I would as part of the town. Same tone as the first piece of post. Also, posting what you think you play like isn't very helpful; in fact, it just draws attention away from suspicious actions and continues to paint them as mistakes. Also, saying that you should go back to being a player who provides more evidence seems to imply that you know very well that your arguments are flimsy, or that it was done on purpose (the main thing that tripped my radar here). Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 11:55 Misder wrote:
I'm done, I think. If you guys truly believe I'm mafia, go ahead, lynch me. Again, the whole point is to lynch mafia. I'm pretty sure the points that were said that make me scummy were 1) I'm inconsistent and 2) I didn't back up my claims. Of course, these points are valid, but is it enough to say im mafia? If you are just lynching me because I'm a bad town player, then you're just hurting the town, and youre just wasting time while the mafia is hiding in the background, smiling at how they don't have to do any work, and just let the town fight with each other. This is the Misder post that I find the oddest. The two points that Misder is "inconsistent" and "didn't back up ... claims" are just simplifications of "seemed to be hostile to everyone" and "offered no evidence in his attacks," two statements which are actually quite strong for a mafia vote in my opinion. Then, Misder goes on the guilt trip, saying "if you lynch me and I'm a townie, you're just going to hurt the town." Honestly, I'm second-guessing a vote for him due to that statement, but at the same time I find it pretty suspicious in tone. I thought the contradiction against BC was pretty solid, but Misder's posts have raised a red flag in my head. I'm going to vote for him. Also, I'm not sold on double lynching yet. If anyone (Pandain especially since he's lobbying for it the most) wants to give me a quick argument for double lynching (not who we should double lynch), I'd be more than glad to hear it.
1) Well according to youre logic, I'm town. ~Opz~ basically voted for me because I apologized for voting for him. Just to clarify, I only apologized for not coming up with a concise argument against ~Opz~ and I didn't even use past games where he was a townie. Again, I changed my mind that ~Opz~ is mafia to being a townie. I still think that ~Opz~ is not blue. And I guess technically, that point wasn't defense at all; just my overall observation.
2) Again, my mindset on Day 1 was impulse and intuition and my knowledge on how I played as mafia. During day 1, I thought that ~Opz~, DH, and Infund were mafia based on that mindset. I know I was wrong the after Night 1 about Infund, and I've reanalyzed ~Opz~ and changed my mind into thinking that he is most likely town. Technically, even right now, I'm inclined to say that DH is either blue or mafia. I'm not contridicting myself. People asked for my list of who I thought were mafia, and I gave it.
3) Well, I've always thought that all my arguments are flimsy, in all my mafia games. I guess you could say I'm experimenting on how to play mafia, kinda like DTA in Mafia XXIII, but not to that extreme. Again, I'm not trying to paint what I did as mistakes, but more of a playstyle difference. I guess to some people, I'm just playing the game even worse as I did before, and may view what I did as a mistake, but that was not my intention. Again, just a general observation. TBH, even though there was like 24 hours left, I thought I was going to get lynched then, and it still looks like it. So its kinda my concluding thoughts. And yeah, probably not helpful, maybe to anyone whos analysing me in the future.
4) lol, reading that reminded me of Pyrr as town in Mafia XXX. I wouldn't say hostile to everyone, and more like overy suspicious and impulsive. Again, my analysis, however bad it is, was based on intuition. ~Opz~ wasn't posting as consitently as he was before (well, thats what I thought at the time; I now realize that of course, real time stuff, and the fact it was only Day 1 and probably too early), and thats how mafia members play; they just die out. Also, one of the reasons why I voted for BC this day.
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On October 09 2010 12:07 kane]deth[ wrote:
I had voted for Double Lynch already, as we would be able to lynch BM.
I'm pretty sure you have to vote for someone in order to not get modkilled. Mod clarify.
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Also, Pandain, do you really believe that seeing what BM flipped is enough to determine the role of Cynae?
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After I die (if I die), you guys need to rethink how mafia actually think and post. If you reread my posts (you don't have to) there are things that I say that mafia wouldn't say (or at least I would think they wouldn't, but then what do I know...). Reminder: Town, youre suppose to be scum hunting. Destroy all the reds plz. Detectives, you guys are key. Use your power to search people that act a bit scummy to tell whether or not they actually are (someone experienced at this game might want to correct me on this, but don't trust anyone (lol, I remember quoting ~Opz~ saying this exact same thing, and I called him out on it; yay contridiction)). People, discuss more. Everyone agrees that discussion generates evidence against mafia. Also, use what you know to your advantage. Oh, about the not trust anyone thing, I really mean it. My first game of mafia, I trusted DTA, the mayor and probably the most active in the game who gave everything a noob needed to be sucked in, and completely failed to even hint that he was mafia. This is probably directed to people who trust someone like Pandain (not saying hes scummy; personally I think hes green). If Pandain was mafia, he knows who mafia is and who isnt. By how the town is playing right now, its not hard for mafia Pandain to find posts that seem scummy, write an analysis on why a post that is somewhat kinda scummy makes that person an absolute lynch target, and get away with it. So don't follow people around; dont get influenced (lol, now im sounding like a transcendalist...).
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Well, hopefully, after this lynch, maybe they will think about how mafia actually posts. Its kinda hard convincing people youre not mafia when you become overly agressive for the first time ever (unlike BM who is always super super agressive).
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Do I get an award for being the most scummiest town ever? 
At least Divinek can't say I'm inactive this game
I'm just waiting for the night post now. I'm I still allowed to talk right now even though its midnight and technically I've been lynched? Sorry if its not.
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BB, just letting you know that you should changed the OP to say that there is only one double lynch left (if I'm not mistaken).
Oh, and since I never actually said goodbye, GL town.
+ Show Spoiler +I can't wait till the post-game analysis.
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Sigh... after I got lynched and Pandain got killed, town just didn't know what to do. The entire last couple of days were all mafia analysis, and everyone else going along with those analysis. No one on the town made a coherent defense. And I did get two mafia members and I was suspicious of Divinek before I died. ghrur and kingjames as mafia surprised me.
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EPT
