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On August 22 2010 01:16 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 00:33 Pandain wrote:On August 21 2010 23:17 Radfield wrote:On August 21 2010 21:40 zeks wrote:
Radfield: "If Prince of Darkness gets used, then we have a sure-fire lynch."
DTA: "Prince of Darkness is a huge role to designate, because it forces mafia to never use it, unless it's endgame or unless they want to be revealed."
how will prince of darkness l be revealed after using his power? i thought the power is activated through secret PM The idea was that a particular pick(in this case #3) takes the Prince of Darkness. That way we know where it is. If it ever gets used, we lynch whoever is pick #3 I am fine with your plan to prioritize some roles.
However, you are not confirmed town right now. You should not make up the list with exactly who gets what role: as you yourself said, it makes no difference if a particular townie picks first or last.
Please drop the public number claiming. You're right. We can't have both public numbers, and a plan to organize picks. If I'm going to decide which roles are getting picked at what draft number(no one else is really weighing in too much on it), then we can't have public picks. Given that I'm unconfirmed, I could manipulate the pick order to benefit the mafia. This means there is no way any town player can have faith that I'm not manipulating the order, so there's no reason for anyone to have faith in the role picking plan. Given that it's far more important for the town to have a role picking plan, then to have public numbers, we should drop the public numbers, and all just RNG a number(Or privately pick a number). It's also important that we hammer out the details of the plan before the draft order becomes public, because at that point we run into the same problem. I will be RNGing my pick, I recommend others do the same. The benefits of publicly claiming numbers was always very minimal to town anyways. Heck no, we need to do this to ensure 1. We get good roles 2. we get comp vigi. The only good thing about your plan is really that it makes it so mafia is unsure as to who will pick what. doesn't really matter, as people are claiming roles. Again, i don't see how you being mafia will even hurt it, as your plan is solid and only hurts the mafia. Again, we have bullet bill. If someone picks a non designated role, their mafia. You have no control over who picks what, only what they pick. And as long as the town agrees, we have no worries over that. Also, fun suscipision time.(just for bragging rights in case i'm right.) + Show Spoiler +Out of these 3, one is innocent, 50% chance one is mafia, and 1 is mafia. Divinek Citizen Darth Just speculation fella's.  1. It doesn't. 2. I still think comp vigi needs to by day 1 lynch. If it's me I'll gladly offer myself for that.
1. Please clarify why it doesn't.
2. The wording of your second sentence confuses me.
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My numbas haz been changed my fellows. Regardless of anything Radfield says, any role except traitor would be beneficial to town as it either takes a role away from mafia or gets us a good role. Priorities are the only thing we can concentrate on rather than pro-town or pro-mafia roles. There really isn't a way in which we can secure the first picks for ourself either as some have already mentioned. SK and Mafia can just pick an earlier number without us knowing. We cannot let mafia know both the draft order and the order of our choosing. If they do, they become familiar with the roles of certain people which will allow them to more easily pin-point the good townie roles. (Essentially: Revealing part of our hand makes it easier for blue snipes. It's like Blackjack where you kinda get an idea of how well the other player is doing based on the card that he has flipped)
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On August 22 2010 01:52 SouthRawrea wrote:
My numbas haz been changed my fellows. Regardless of anything Radfield says, any role except traitor would be beneficial to town as it either takes a role away from mafia or gets us a good role. Priorities are the only thing we can concentrate on rather than pro-town or pro-mafia roles. There really isn't a way in which we can secure the first picks for ourself either as some have already mentioned. SK and Mafia can just pick an earlier number without us knowing. We cannot let mafia know both the draft order and the order of our choosing. If they do, they become familiar with the roles of certain people which will allow them to more easily pin-point the good townie roles. (Essentially: Revealing part of our hand makes it easier for blue snipes. It's like Blackjack where you kinda get an idea of how well the other player is doing based on the card that he has flipped)
I'm sorry, but almost everything here in my opinion is wrong and illogical.
1. The mafia does NOT want us to know the draft order and order of our choosing. It's more of a benefit for town than it is for mafia.
2.The bolded sentence is also wrong. As I have said, if mafia tries to sneak in an earlier member than we can tell so(and know they're mafia) because they will go to the bottom of the draft order.
I agree however that it makes it SOMEWHAT easier for blue snipes, but with radfields percentage chance even that is negated(aka 50% chance of bullet proof or vet, meaning they will waste a hit >)
Better arguments, or claim now. Growing impatient as time grows short, forgive me.
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On August 22 2010 00:45 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 00:43 DarthThienAn wrote:On August 22 2010 00:33 Pandain wrote:On August 21 2010 23:17 Radfield wrote:On August 21 2010 21:40 zeks wrote:
Radfield: "If Prince of Darkness gets used, then we have a sure-fire lynch."
DTA: "Prince of Darkness is a huge role to designate, because it forces mafia to never use it, unless it's endgame or unless they want to be revealed."
how will prince of darkness l be revealed after using his power? i thought the power is activated through secret PM The idea was that a particular pick(in this case #3) takes the Prince of Darkness. That way we know where it is. If it ever gets used, we lynch whoever is pick #3 I am fine with your plan to prioritize some roles.
However, you are not confirmed town right now. You should not make up the list with exactly who gets what role: as you yourself said, it makes no difference if a particular townie picks first or last.
Please drop the public number claiming. You're right. We can't have both public numbers, and a plan to organize picks. If I'm going to decide which roles are getting picked at what draft number(no one else is really weighing in too much on it), then we can't have public picks. Given that I'm unconfirmed, I could manipulate the pick order to benefit the mafia. This means there is no way any town player can have faith that I'm not manipulating the order, so there's no reason for anyone to have faith in the role picking plan. Given that it's far more important for the town to have a role picking plan, then to have public numbers, we should drop the public numbers, and all just RNG a number(Or privately pick a number). It's also important that we hammer out the details of the plan before the draft order becomes public, because at that point we run into the same problem. I will be RNGing my pick, I recommend others do the same. The benefits of publicly claiming numbers was always very minimal to town anyways. Heck no, we need to do this to ensure 1. We get good roles 2. we get comp vigi. The only good thing about your plan is really that it makes it so mafia is unsure as to who will pick what. doesn't really matter, as people are claiming roles. Again, i don't see how you being mafia will even hurt it, as your plan is solid and only hurts the mafia. Again, we have bullet bill. If someone picks a non designated role, their mafia. You have no control over who picks what, only what they pick. And as long as the town agrees, we have no worries over that. Also, fun suscipision time.(just for bragging rights in case i'm right.) + Show Spoiler +Out of these 3, one is innocent, 50% chance one is mafia, and 1 is mafia. Divinek Citizen Darth Just speculation fella's. Can you explain why controlling the draft order helps us? If mafia tries to screw with the draft order and try to get the roles they want, then we can tell who screwed with it because they will have picked the same number as anothe rperson, thereby being pushed back in the draft order. A good way of ensuring we get good roles. Ideally, mafia will be forced to pick town aligned roles, but they will probably try to get mafia-aligned roles from 13-onwards. That's why we have role cop and bullet bill which will allow us to identify them and pin them as mafia.
Assume plan goes smoothly. We have whoever dibs 1-5 presumably taking the best roles for town. Are we organizing that, or are we telling those people "pick whatever you think is best?"
There is no "we get good roles" if a mafia player is in the top 5 list, which is likely, simply based on probability. And all it takes for mafia to get CV is for them to be #1. I'm assuming that whoever is #1 is taking the CV because it's obviously the most desirable for all parties/to deny. I just think Radfield's plan makes more sense.
Again, why does picking the players who are what number in the draft order benefit us? I understand that publicly claiming and holding people to those numbers benefits us in a style similar to "lynch all liars." So essentially, you're trying to force mafia to pick the number that they say, and to stay with that - that doesn't necessarily hurt/help them. It's not always in the interest of the mafia to double up with anyone..
Not to mention that I don't have faith in everyone claiming, and so, townies will fall under suspicion if they double up b/c they didn't read the thread.
On August 22 2010 00:51 Pandain wrote:
Darth disagree with statements or claim now.
I already have a huge FoS on you, don't make it more so.
I've claimed for awhile now. Shouldn't you know that if you're so supportive of this plan? AND I disagree.
On August 22 2010 02:06 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 01:52 SouthRawrea wrote:
My numbas haz been changed my fellows. Regardless of anything Radfield says, any role except traitor would be beneficial to town as it either takes a role away from mafia or gets us a good role. Priorities are the only thing we can concentrate on rather than pro-town or pro-mafia roles. There really isn't a way in which we can secure the first picks for ourself either as some have already mentioned. SK and Mafia can just pick an earlier number without us knowing. We cannot let mafia know both the draft order and the order of our choosing. If they do, they become familiar with the roles of certain people which will allow them to more easily pin-point the good townie roles. (Essentially: Revealing part of our hand makes it easier for blue snipes. It's like Blackjack where you kinda get an idea of how well the other player is doing based on the card that he has flipped) I'm sorry, but almost everything here in my opinion is wrong and illogical. 1. The mafia does NOT want us to know the draft order and order of our choosing. It's more of a benefit for town than it is for mafia. 2.The bolded sentence is also wrong. As I have said, if mafia tries to sneak in an earlier member than we can tell so(and know they're mafia) because they will go to the bottom of the draft order. I agree however that it makes it SOMEWHAT easier for blue snipes, but with radfields percentage chance even that is negated(aka 50% chance of bullet proof or vet, meaning they will waste a hit > ) Better arguments, or claim now. Growing impatient as time grows short, forgive me.
? Everyone will know the draft order.
It is true that we can catch mafia/sk if they try to double up with someone early on, but other than that, I don't really see the advantages to this plan. All it takes is them not doubling up/sticking to what they claim.
Are you suggesting combining the two plans? I guess that makes more sense.
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On August 22 2010 02:20 DarthThienAn wrote:
A good argument I am happy
I never said making my own plan, I am going along with Radfield's plan.
The only difference is we publically claim the number's we're picking. 1-12 have already been picked(i think, almost all of them)
It is true that we can catch mafia/sk if they try to double up with someone early on, but other than that, I don't really see the advantages to this plan. All it takes is them not doubling up/sticking to what they claim.
YES! Meaning that mafia will either have to take pro town roles, which don't help them in either case. but if they want to have mafia roles than they will have to double up >. Good for town.
Also, forgive me. I was probably looking for darth when I checked it and didn't see you there. I now see "DTA". Yay
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On August 22 2010 02:27 Pandain wrote:I never said making my own plan, I am going along with Radfield's plan. The only difference is we publically claim the number's we're picking. 1-12 have already been picked(i think, almost all of them) Show nested quote +It is true that we can catch mafia/sk if they try to double up with someone early on, but other than that, I don't really see the advantages to this plan. All it takes is them not doubling up/sticking to what they claim.
YES! Meaning that mafia will either have to take pro town roles, which don't help them in either case. but if they want to have mafia roles than they will have to double up > . Good for town. Also, forgive me. I was probably looking for darth when I checked it and didn't see you there. I now see "DTA". Yay
That makes a lot more sense then. I was assuming that you were saying use ONLY this number plan and then do whatever for picks...
The only other thing on my mind now is that, though this plan lets us find scum that double up, it also allows scum to know what everyone is picking. But hmm... I guess if they sacrifice a mafia player by doubling up in order to get a role, that's actually worth it.
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How is #1 taking CV are bad thing? We know who CV is, we dictate his/her actions. In fact I would put bigger fos on the person for not picking CV when they have a chance. Nothing is more detrimental than mafia getting the role, unsupervised by clear role selection plan so he/she can conceal oneself without claiming.
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citi.zen, vx70GTOJudgexv, SouthRawrea, SiNiquity, ~OpZ~ , Fishball, BrownBear, Divinek
I want to hear why these people are not claiming, or huge FoS on them.
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maybe we should discuss some detriments to this plan, and how possibly mafia can screw this up
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sorry for double post
the #1 draft pick taking CV should be no brainer i agree with that, but other than that we should somewhat follow the chain of role importance (as posted from rasta/radfield) loosely. If we follow it 100% then we might as well have mass roleclaimed
hope to hear all the number claims before we start the game
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On August 22 2010 03:38 zeks wrote:
sorry for double post
the #1 draft pick taking CV should be no brainer i agree with that, but other than that we should somewhat follow the chain of role importance (as posted from rasta/radfield) loosely. If we follow it 100% then we might as well have mass roleclaimed
hope to hear all the number claims before we start the game
You have to remember its all by percentage. So the mafia knows which general range the(i.e.) role cop could be, but they also have a chance of hitting a vet/bulletproof.(50%, if im correct)
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If you guys want a plan, we should assign people roles. The 20 least detrimental to town roles. Although people will get scum roles, they can still utilize them for town.
+ Show Spoiler +Floridian
Pardoner
Bad Santa
Vengeful Player
Day Vig
Role Cop
Tracker
Joat
Bullet Bill
Alignment Cop
Bulletproof
Veteran
Meth Man
Doctor
Doctor
Mason
Copy Cat
Watcher
Comp Vig
Martyr
Just randomly assign people to a role. Then, role cops / watchers have their job a lot easier. Also, if a person picks a role, and discovers he's vanilla, its another way to detect something fishy.
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If you are concerned about blue sniping, I can PM everyone their roles. That way no mafia will know.
The day vigi can kill me day 1 to verify that I am town.
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No, Radfield's plan is already incrediably solid and allows more information and scum hunting abilities. And already no one really has to be concerned about blue sniping.
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Oh whoops, first readthrough I didn't get it. I agree with Radfield's plan.
But why is Day Vig a mafia role?
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On August 22 2010 04:06 LSB wrote:
Oh whoops, first readthrough I didn't get it. I agree with Radfield's plan.
But why is Day Vig a mafia role?
Go reread Radfield's thing. Basically he's like "Adds kp, kp is bad in this setup because of error."
More urgent, why haven't people claimed.
And perhaps more importantly, why is the thread only consist of like 8 people. How long has this been going on? 24 hours?
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On August 22 2010 02:31 DarthThienAn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 02:27 Pandain wrote:On August 22 2010 02:20 DarthThienAn wrote:
A good argument I am happy
I never said making my own plan, I am going along with Radfield's plan. The only difference is we publically claim the number's we're picking. 1-12 have already been picked(i think, almost all of them) It is true that we can catch mafia/sk if they try to double up with someone early on, but other than that, I don't really see the advantages to this plan. All it takes is them not doubling up/sticking to what they claim.
YES! Meaning that mafia will either have to take pro town roles, which don't help them in either case. but if they want to have mafia roles than they will have to double up > . Good for town. Also, forgive me. I was probably looking for darth when I checked it and didn't see you there. I now see "DTA". Yay That makes a lot more sense then. I was assuming that you were saying use ONLY this number plan and then do whatever for picks... The only other thing on my mind now is that, though this plan lets us find scum that double up, it also allows scum to know what everyone is picking. But hmm... I guess if they sacrifice a mafia player by doubling up in order to get a role, that's actually worth it.
Perhaps I am dense, but here are some concerns:
1. We have no reason to think the mafia get lower numbers using this method. I have no idea of anyone's alignment on that list.
2. A mafia with a "pro-town" role can screw us up forever. A dt can claim anything about their sanity. A tracker can frame anyone. These roles are by no means "useless to the mafia", on the contrary.
3. I HATE the thought that the mafia will have a very easy time sniping blues, and may even reserve desired roles for themselves through an assured draft order & influencing the dicussion of who picks what.
4. Why are we not even discussing lynching the comp vig? It lowers the numer of dead people each night, which as far as I can tell helps the town have more time to figure things out.
So no, I will not follow Bill Murray and Pandain's request to announce anything at this time.
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On August 22 2010 04:15 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 02:31 DarthThienAn wrote:On August 22 2010 02:27 Pandain wrote:On August 22 2010 02:20 DarthThienAn wrote:
A good argument I am happy
I never said making my own plan, I am going along with Radfield's plan. The only difference is we publically claim the number's we're picking. 1-12 have already been picked(i think, almost all of them) It is true that we can catch mafia/sk if they try to double up with someone early on, but other than that, I don't really see the advantages to this plan. All it takes is them not doubling up/sticking to what they claim.
YES! Meaning that mafia will either have to take pro town roles, which don't help them in either case. but if they want to have mafia roles than they will have to double up > . Good for town. Also, forgive me. I was probably looking for darth when I checked it and didn't see you there. I now see "DTA". Yay That makes a lot more sense then. I was assuming that you were saying use ONLY this number plan and then do whatever for picks... The only other thing on my mind now is that, though this plan lets us find scum that double up, it also allows scum to know what everyone is picking. But hmm... I guess if they sacrifice a mafia player by doubling up in order to get a role, that's actually worth it. Perhaps I am dense, but here are some concerns: 1. We have no reason to think the mafia get lower numbers using this method. I have no idea of anyone's alignment on that list. 2. A mafia with a "pro-town" role can screw us up forever. A dt can claim anything about their sanity. A tracker can frame anyone. These roles are by no means "useless to the mafia", on the contrary. 3. I HATE the thought that the mafia will have a very easy time sniping blues, and may even reserve desired roles for themselves through an assured draft order & influencing the dicussion of who picks what. 4. Why are we not even discussing lynching the comp vig? It lowers the numer of dead people each night, which as far as I can tell helps the town have more time to figure things out. So no, I will not follow Bill Murray and Pandain's request to announce anything at this time.
#4 50% Role Cop, 50% Defensive role(Vet, Meth Man, or Bulletproof. 33% chance of each)
#5 50% Joat......... 50% Defensive role
#6 50% Bullet Bill, 50% Defensive role
#7 50% Role Cop, 50% Defensive role
#8 50% Joat.........50% Defensive role
#9 50% Bullet Bill, 50% Defensive role
Blue sniping will be very risky for them.
And mafia willl not get desired roles for themselves, and if they do then role cop/bullet bill will find them easily.
There are no DT's, there are alignment cops if you mean. But that's why they are not an essential role. And that will be at the very least by ~day3, as how would they know their sanity before than?
If a tracker lies, we catch him and he's dead.
As for the first statement, it confuses me. Clarify?
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On August 22 2010 04:00 LSB wrote:
If you are concerned about blue sniping, I can PM everyone their roles. That way no mafia will know.
The day vigi can kill me day 1 to verify that I am town.
dont think u can pm
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all in favor of lynching citi.zen say I
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EPT
