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On August 07 2010 12:35 Divinek wrote:
it's still quite unlikely a noisy neighbour is going to visit bm that night
we can easily just get every townie that gets a pm from the 'watcher' to say he did and if it's more than say 1 or 2 , two would easily be even pushing it, then all the blues can know the watcher is a bullshitter.
and besides like said the mafia would have to for sure hit every blue on that list accurately and there's just no way mafia could come even close to doing this
because all the people that visit him KNOW they did it
Yeah. There are a few fake claim opportunities I listed to watch out for, but I find this to be the best plan yet.
Don't think we should use BM, though. It would probably be best to pick someone we are most sure is not a ninja, or someone from the PL Finals list.
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On August 07 2010 12:35 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 12:24 Pandain wrote:On August 07 2010 12:22 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 07 2010 12:18 Pandain wrote:On August 07 2010 12:18 chaoser wrote:On August 07 2010 12:15 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 07 2010 12:08 LSB wrote:
Before I go to sleep.
What about this?
Watcher watches BM. Everyone else makes a beeline and random medics / Vigilanties / Stalkers go visit BM.
The Watcher then proceeds to PM everyone who visited BM and demands a Role Claim.
If someone pretends to be watcher, he'll probably make a mistake and won't send a PM to the right person, and then easy expose.
After a while, if the people who visited BM confirm that the Watcher is correct. The Watcher PMs everyone else who did not visit BM and demands a roleclaim
So we basically get 1 person who is confirmed. First thing: no benefit to using BM as the watched person. That said: maybe this is better. Only problems are with getting waxed but our blues will know if they get waxed so that's not even a problem. Mafia would get the ID of the Watcher but we could protect them indefinitely with bus driver, right? Dude I think we might have a winner, here. Please look at LSB's plan here and critique it. How would people know which one is real watcher and which one is mafia if they get asked? agreed, and what if a person accidently sends it to a mafia because they asked first. No wayt ot ell who real watcher is. If what person accidentally sends what to a mafia? We can easily pick out a fake watcher with this plan because the only way to fake watcher will be to CORRECTLY GUESS 100% OF THE VISITING BLUES. So some adaptions to this plan: People who get pmed from watcher will wait 12-24 hours to see if a townie will claim he got a pm from said person before the blues will respond vigis will NOT visit said person(lol) This plan does seem pretty good... Current Version of LSB PlanWe pick a THIS GUY. All watchers watch him. All detectives check him. All medics prot him. All trackers track him. Bus drivers and vigis stay away. Hatters probably stay away, too. If a blue's action went through (no waxing) they will expect a PM from a watcher. If no PMs are sent, there is no watcher or watcher was waxed. If a blue gets one PM, then that is the real watcher unless the unlikely event of the watcher being waxed (mafia can possibly claim waxed watcher). If a green gets a PM they can come forward - they are nosy neighbor or mafia is faking. If no greens come forward we are probably doing good. If a blue that didn't act on THIS GUY gets a PM, we have a surefire mafia. If no one steps forward seeing shenanigans for say, 24 hours. We can have watcher step forward - no one else comes forward we can protect them with bus. If more than one step forward, a blue can use pm evidence to out them if they are fake, maybe a DT can use a mouth they've confirmed (look for mafia to use an innocent as a mouth here, or maybe a mafia as a mouth like rastaban/sr last game).
but how do we set up a real circle when the role blocker gets in there
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On August 07 2010 12:40 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 12:35 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 07 2010 12:24 Pandain wrote:On August 07 2010 12:22 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 07 2010 12:18 Pandain wrote:On August 07 2010 12:18 chaoser wrote:On August 07 2010 12:15 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 07 2010 12:08 LSB wrote:
Before I go to sleep.
What about this?
Watcher watches BM. Everyone else makes a beeline and random medics / Vigilanties / Stalkers go visit BM.
The Watcher then proceeds to PM everyone who visited BM and demands a Role Claim.
If someone pretends to be watcher, he'll probably make a mistake and won't send a PM to the right person, and then easy expose.
After a while, if the people who visited BM confirm that the Watcher is correct. The Watcher PMs everyone else who did not visit BM and demands a roleclaim
So we basically get 1 person who is confirmed. First thing: no benefit to using BM as the watched person. That said: maybe this is better. Only problems are with getting waxed but our blues will know if they get waxed so that's not even a problem. Mafia would get the ID of the Watcher but we could protect them indefinitely with bus driver, right? Dude I think we might have a winner, here. Please look at LSB's plan here and critique it. How would people know which one is real watcher and which one is mafia if they get asked? agreed, and what if a person accidently sends it to a mafia because they asked first. No wayt ot ell who real watcher is. If what person accidentally sends what to a mafia? We can easily pick out a fake watcher with this plan because the only way to fake watcher will be to CORRECTLY GUESS 100% OF THE VISITING BLUES. So some adaptions to this plan: People who get pmed from watcher will wait 12-24 hours to see if a townie will claim he got a pm from said person before the blues will respond vigis will NOT visit said person(lol) This plan does seem pretty good... Current Version of LSB PlanWe pick a THIS GUY. All watchers watch him. All detectives check him. All medics prot him. All trackers track him. Bus drivers and vigis stay away. Hatters probably stay away, too. If a blue's action went through (no waxing) they will expect a PM from a watcher. If no PMs are sent, there is no watcher or watcher was waxed. If a blue gets one PM, then that is the real watcher unless the unlikely event of the watcher being waxed (mafia can possibly claim waxed watcher). If a green gets a PM they can come forward - they are nosy neighbor or mafia is faking. If no greens come forward we are probably doing good. If a blue that didn't act on THIS GUY gets a PM, we have a surefire mafia. If no one steps forward seeing shenanigans for say, 24 hours. We can have watcher step forward - no one else comes forward we can protect them with bus. If more than one step forward, a blue can use pm evidence to out them if they are fake, maybe a DT can use a mouth they've confirmed (look for mafia to use an innocent as a mouth here, or maybe a mafia as a mouth like rastaban/sr last game). but how do we set up a real circle when the role blocker gets in there
Perhaps we could do a combination of my plan and LSB's plan. Thus making two circles and two reds caught? Lowering KP to 2.
We can get DT's to check people who claim blues when theres more than 1, especially more than 2. This is interesting though, since we don't know how many of each role there is. good catch.
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On August 07 2010 12:39 Divinek wrote:
also in theory if all the blues that can do this actually do it
we get a circle that includes
trackers, watchers, medics, dts, and even MH cause they might as well place a bomb on bm/this person whoever, and they can move it the next day just so they can be put into this circle
only vig and vets wont be pulled in right away
but still how do we distinguish a role blocker from all the other roles? if they visit with all these people and fake claim
there's no way to check them out because we dont have role counts, unless this person is the go between, between ALL of the roles and doesnt use names or something
I'm not sure we can really confirm the people the watcher sees. It's the watcher that we can hopefully confirm and then protect with the bus driver.
I suppose the best way for the mafia to mess this plan up would be to have someone claim acting blue and say they didn't get a pm. That would probably force a few blues out of hiding to counter the bs claim.
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On August 07 2010 12:40 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 12:35 Divinek wrote:
it's still quite unlikely a noisy neighbour is going to visit bm that night
we can easily just get every townie that gets a pm from the 'watcher' to say he did and if it's more than say 1 or 2 , two would easily be even pushing it, then all the blues can know the watcher is a bullshitter.
and besides like said the mafia would have to for sure hit every blue on that list accurately and there's just no way mafia could come even close to doing this
because all the people that visit him KNOW they did it Yeah. There are a few fake claim opportunities I listed to watch out for, but I find this to be the best plan yet. Don't think we should use BM, though. It would probably be best to pick someone we are most sure is not a ninja, or someone from the PL Finals list.
BM is NOT a ninja. I can guarantee you that 99.99%. His play has been WAY too active, too risky, too lynch-inducing to be a a ninja.
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On August 07 2010 12:37 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 12:33 SouthRawrea wrote:
Godfather can fake whispered green can they not? I think we should stick with the original plan. Any chance you want to talk in the thread and on the record about why you switched your vote from Bill Murray to love1another in order to switch it from 5-4 to 4-5?
This helps Pandain's plan? Idk why else? I feel the next best idea is to vote someone who is clearly inactive and of no help. My initial vote was a placeholder anyways. Why else would I vote SO early?
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On August 07 2010 12:44 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 12:40 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 07 2010 12:35 Divinek wrote:
it's still quite unlikely a noisy neighbour is going to visit bm that night
we can easily just get every townie that gets a pm from the 'watcher' to say he did and if it's more than say 1 or 2 , two would easily be even pushing it, then all the blues can know the watcher is a bullshitter.
and besides like said the mafia would have to for sure hit every blue on that list accurately and there's just no way mafia could come even close to doing this
because all the people that visit him KNOW they did it Yeah. There are a few fake claim opportunities I listed to watch out for, but I find this to be the best plan yet. Don't think we should use BM, though. It would probably be best to pick someone we are most sure is not a ninja, or someone from the PL Finals list. BM is NOT a ninja. I can guarantee you that 99.99%. His play has been WAY too active, too risky, too lynch-inducing to be a a ninja.
Yeah, I can guarantee you 99.99% he's red and so I'd rather just see him go today *shrug*. Can't be too lynch-inducing when he's already out of the noose thanks to SouthRawrea's change (not necessarily fosing SR btw).
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On August 07 2010 12:43 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 12:39 Divinek wrote:
also in theory if all the blues that can do this actually do it
we get a circle that includes
trackers, watchers, medics, dts, and even MH cause they might as well place a bomb on bm/this person whoever, and they can move it the next day just so they can be put into this circle
only vig and vets wont be pulled in right away
but still how do we distinguish a role blocker from all the other roles? if they visit with all these people and fake claim
there's no way to check them out because we dont have role counts, unless this person is the go between, between ALL of the roles and doesnt use names or something I'm not sure we can really confirm the people the watcher sees. It's the watcher that we can hopefully confirm and then protect with the bus driver. I suppose the best way for the mafia to mess this plan up would be to have someone claim acting blue and say they didn't get a pm. That would probably force a few blues out of hiding to counter the bs claim.
yeah but once we have a confirmed watcher that has a list of like 70%+ of the blue roles in the game where the hell can we go from there?
Because he cant communicate with any of them directly, like he cant be like 'okay dude that dt claimed to me check this person from my list' because if that person is the roleblocker etc
though i suppose he could get clever and get 2 claimers to check each other cause it'd be totally worth it for us to kill the roleblocker for a dt or something
just trying to see where this would get us
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On August 07 2010 12:47 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 12:44 Pandain wrote:On August 07 2010 12:40 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 07 2010 12:35 Divinek wrote:
it's still quite unlikely a noisy neighbour is going to visit bm that night
we can easily just get every townie that gets a pm from the 'watcher' to say he did and if it's more than say 1 or 2 , two would easily be even pushing it, then all the blues can know the watcher is a bullshitter.
and besides like said the mafia would have to for sure hit every blue on that list accurately and there's just no way mafia could come even close to doing this
because all the people that visit him KNOW they did it Yeah. There are a few fake claim opportunities I listed to watch out for, but I find this to be the best plan yet. Don't think we should use BM, though. It would probably be best to pick someone we are most sure is not a ninja, or someone from the PL Finals list. BM is NOT a ninja. I can guarantee you that 99.99%. His play has been WAY too active, too risky, too lynch-inducing to be a a ninja. Yeah, I can guarantee you 99.99% he's red and so I'd rather just see him go today *shrug*. Can't be too lynch-inducing when he's already out of the noose thanks to SouthRawrea's change (not necessarily fosing SR btw).
One of the main reasons he's not getting lynched is the point he could be a blue and thus contribute greatly to my plan. Anyway, I'm really starting to think we should have a combination of our two plans(mine and LSB's) since that would force
1) Many mafia to come out and combat these growing circles
As long as allow us to
1)Grow 2 circles
2) Catch a potential GF
3)Get more infomation.
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On August 07 2010 12:47 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 12:43 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 07 2010 12:39 Divinek wrote:
also in theory if all the blues that can do this actually do it
we get a circle that includes
trackers, watchers, medics, dts, and even MH cause they might as well place a bomb on bm/this person whoever, and they can move it the next day just so they can be put into this circle
only vig and vets wont be pulled in right away
but still how do we distinguish a role blocker from all the other roles? if they visit with all these people and fake claim
there's no way to check them out because we dont have role counts, unless this person is the go between, between ALL of the roles and doesnt use names or something I'm not sure we can really confirm the people the watcher sees. It's the watcher that we can hopefully confirm and then protect with the bus driver. I suppose the best way for the mafia to mess this plan up would be to have someone claim acting blue and say they didn't get a pm. That would probably force a few blues out of hiding to counter the bs claim. yeah but once we have a confirmed watcher that has a list of like 70%+ of the blue roles in the game where the hell can we go from there? Because he cant communicate with any of them directly, like he cant be like 'okay dude that dt claimed to me check this person from my list' because if that person is the roleblocker etc though i suppose he could get clever and get 2 claimers to check each other cause it'd be totally worth it for us to kill the roleblocker for a dt or something just trying to see where this would get us
Yeah that's true hmm. I imagine the watcher will get a lone claimer for one of the blue roles and I doubt there are unused roles AND the mafia would get lucky enough to claim as that one. So we could make progress that way.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Interesting developments so far. I'm not one for plans, and Pandain pm'd me his idea (along with several other people, he said) and I told him I didn't like it because roleblockers and framers could get in with all of the other roles and mess stuff up.
Some of the obstacles that I brought up in pm's have been addressed, but I still am not really sure how this plan intends to deal with all of the counter-claims that always come out. The watcher is going to have a hard time figuring out which roles are actually in the game, which roles we have one of, and which roles we have two of, ect. DT's then need to check things out.
But if the mafia claims DT, then we'll just be feeding them the names of blue players, which is dangerous. And we can't verify people without the DT's. We might have two, one, or none of them. I have no idea.
I think this is a good idea in principle, but there are some potentially fatal kinks, and I'm not sure how I'd address them.
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Ok ignore the fact that i stated pandains plan was in action 10 pages before he brought it up.
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On August 07 2010 12:51 bumatlarge wrote:
Ok ignore the fact that i stated pandains plan was in action 10 pages before he brought it up.
I adapted mine from BM's plan where he said both watcher and tracker can RC to him. Than I said what if they just both track an anonymous person.
Don't see what it would mean anyway :/
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On August 07 2010 12:49 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 12:47 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 07 2010 12:44 Pandain wrote:On August 07 2010 12:40 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 07 2010 12:35 Divinek wrote:
it's still quite unlikely a noisy neighbour is going to visit bm that night
we can easily just get every townie that gets a pm from the 'watcher' to say he did and if it's more than say 1 or 2 , two would easily be even pushing it, then all the blues can know the watcher is a bullshitter.
and besides like said the mafia would have to for sure hit every blue on that list accurately and there's just no way mafia could come even close to doing this
because all the people that visit him KNOW they did it Yeah. There are a few fake claim opportunities I listed to watch out for, but I find this to be the best plan yet. Don't think we should use BM, though. It would probably be best to pick someone we are most sure is not a ninja, or someone from the PL Finals list. BM is NOT a ninja. I can guarantee you that 99.99%. His play has been WAY too active, too risky, too lynch-inducing to be a a ninja. Yeah, I can guarantee you 99.99% he's red and so I'd rather just see him go today *shrug*. Can't be too lynch-inducing when he's already out of the noose thanks to SouthRawrea's change (not necessarily fosing SR btw). One of the main reasons he's not getting lynched is the point he could be a blue and thus contribute greatly to my plan. Anyway, I'm really starting to think we should have a combination of our two plans(mine and LSB's) since that would force 1) Many mafia to come out and combat these growing circles As long as allow us to 1)Grow 2 circles 2) Catch a potential GF 3)Get more infomation.
Don't try to make it too complicated. I guess if you have a combo idea give your more detailed idea.
I think I've already gone over a bunch of great reasons why you can't catch the GF with your plan. However, with the LSB plan the GF can't do the action of the role he appears as.
Hmm... so if we have a confirmed watcher, we could possibly root out mafia claims by asking the mafia member to do something on someone and then watching it. Mafia could use roleblocker/framer to fake this but perhaps we could find away around it and this plan would certainly get very powerful if we were to knock out 1/2 red special roles.
Given the lengths certain people have gone to protect BM I have thought that perhaps he is one of the special roles.
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On August 07 2010 12:50 tree.hugger wrote:
Interesting developments so far. I'm not one for plans, and Pandain pm'd me his idea (along with several other people, he said) and I told him I didn't like it because roleblockers and framers could get in with all of the other roles and mess stuff up.
Some of the obstacles that I brought up in pm's have been addressed, but I still am not really sure how this plan intends to deal with all of the counter-claims that always come out. The watcher is going to have a hard time figuring out which roles are actually in the game, which roles we have one of, and which roles we have two of, ect. DT's then need to check things out.
But if the mafia claims DT, then we'll just be feeding them the names of blue players, which is dangerous. And we can't verify people without the DT's. We might have two, one, or none of them. I have no idea.
I think this is a good idea in principle, but there are some potentially fatal kinks, and I'm not sure how I'd address them.
If we do this plan keep it simple. Watcher and Tracker, any more just hurts the plan and puts more at risk. Think like Day 9 says. You don't need a big lead, go for the sure small lead it will add up over the game. We don't need a miracle plan to confirm all the townies we get the watcher and and tracker teamed up and we have already made the town much stronger. we can then build off this, but if we get greedy then it makes things too dangerous.
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On August 07 2010 12:51 bumatlarge wrote:
Ok ignore the fact that i stated pandains plan was in action 10 pages before he brought it up.
Do we have any day roles? I thought they were all night. So what could you possibly be talking about.
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On August 07 2010 12:57 rastaban wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 12:50 tree.hugger wrote:
Interesting developments so far. I'm not one for plans, and Pandain pm'd me his idea (along with several other people, he said) and I told him I didn't like it because roleblockers and framers could get in with all of the other roles and mess stuff up.
Some of the obstacles that I brought up in pm's have been addressed, but I still am not really sure how this plan intends to deal with all of the counter-claims that always come out. The watcher is going to have a hard time figuring out which roles are actually in the game, which roles we have one of, and which roles we have two of, ect. DT's then need to check things out.
But if the mafia claims DT, then we'll just be feeding them the names of blue players, which is dangerous. And we can't verify people without the DT's. We might have two, one, or none of them. I have no idea.
I think this is a good idea in principle, but there are some potentially fatal kinks, and I'm not sure how I'd address them. If we do this plan keep it simple. Watcher and Tracker, any more just hurts the plan and puts more at risk. Think like Day 9 says. You don't need a big lead, go for the sure small lead it will add up over the game. We don't need a miracle plan to confirm all the townies we get the watcher and and tracker teamed up and we have already made the town much stronger. we can then build off this, but if we get greedy then it makes things too dangerous.
yeah but if we do this then the watcher has a list of almost ALL the blue roles, and red power roles as well if they decide to fake claim
so then he could set up his circle with just the tracker night 2 or something
or we could do the simpler one first and the more complex one second, but regardless we all have to agree on it so someone doesnt fuck it up
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We do my plan, regardless of whether BM turns GF we can
1) force out a special red
2) get watcher with contact in blue.
I think I've detailed how to do that before. Either way, by making them do BM we FORCE him to be GF, therefore FORCING him to be Vet, therefore setting up for the second plan
Since vet cannot visit someone, he cannot try to hide with the second thing.Watcher will knokw identify of special red, so even if we mislynch first than we can find out a second red. Any blue role with only 1 guy will be safe. Has there ever been a case where there hasn't been at least one of a blue role? The person will probably fake DT claim just in the scenario there's only one DT.
If you haven't been able to tell, I'm just rambling. Please expand on all this and make it better. I'm listing my thoughts out loud so we can get a better idea.
Please, expand on my thoughts.
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So are we doing the simple one first or the more complex one first?
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Sure. Its day 1 and there is 31 pages of speculation.
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EPT
