Penalty Mafia - Page 2

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 08 2010 19:55 GMT

#152

On August 09 2010 00:11 citi.zen wrote:
Bill, do just know Ace, or all the reds? Change vote to them sequentially if you know them, otherwise vote me then go back to w/e.

I already asked this and he indicated he only knows Ace.

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 08 2010 20:00 GMT

#153

Yeah, like I said, my vote is not set in stone. I want to hear the rest of Ace's plan; he said he was waiting for town to become more active and it looks like things are finally warming up a bit.

I am more suspicious of Ace than BM at this point because Ace seems to be distracting town from BM rather than taking him head on. If BM is town-aligned and making these claims to troll or to get himself killed because he doesn't want to play anymore than I really don't know why he's playing and I don't really want him around the TL Mafia forum.

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 08 2010 20:01 GMT

#154

On August 08 2010 23:04 bumatlarge wrote:
Oh my god... BM if you are some sort of day rolechecker/DT or something else that lets you find out Ace's role, Vote me! and then go back to ace

If not, vote divine and bouncearoo.

lol bouncearoo. I like that word. I hope it is some secret trigger word Hesmyrr attached to your role.

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 08 2010 21:04 GMT

#157

On August 09 2010 05:19 Jayme wrote:

Show nested quote +

IF BM refuses to talk than it'll be hard to take him head on in the first place.

What Ace is doing is hardly distracting. I do hate it when people hold back plans for unseen thresholds. Lets hope it gets "reached" so we have something to work with.

Well I guess Ace's position is that BM is fooling around.

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 08 2010 22:09 GMT

#166

On August 09 2010 06:54 bumatlarge wrote:

Show nested quote +

I will if more then 5 people ask me too. If it wasnt for the Ace/BM thing, I would for sure.

You already told the mafia to force you to do it so...
You should have just stayed low if you were worrieda bout the mafia forcing you to use your action. That said, I doubt there's a mafia role to force someone to use their action.

A role that limits someone's speaking seems pretty guaranteed, though. I think one of the examples Hesmyrr gave was a shy townie that had some posting restrictions. That would be a really lame/boring role to have so I could see Hesmyrr balancing that by giving some way for the silent person to know red roles - I could see Hesmyrr assuming that we wouldn't immediately jump to the hypothesis I had on BM's role.

It could be that BM is following an example claim given to the mafia by Hesmyrr, or he just thought he would fake being unable to speak to lay low as red, and BM just used my question to him as an excuse to try to kill Ace. If we were to kill Ace and he flips non-red, though, we'd go after BM and I don't think that's a good trade for mafia.

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 08 2010 22:12 GMT

#167

Lol "No post restriction bs though."
Why didn't you post that earlier, Ace?
##abstain

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 08 2010 22:24 GMT

#172

##vote Bill Murray

He better start talking, argh.

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 08 2010 22:25 GMT

#174

On August 09 2010 07:23 zeks wrote:

Show nested quote +

Can someone quote where it says theres no PM restriction penalty? I believe you Ace but if you could just show it to everyone else it'd be better. I do remember seeing that posted just can't find where it was

#Vote Bill Murray

ctrl-f, it's in the very first post of the thread.

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 08 2010 22:29 GMT

#176

Posting penalties will give clues to the reds about roles. I'm not sure how we can use them against the reds; I'm sure they can give plausible ones since the rules say so.

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 08 2010 22:37 GMT

#178

"If any townies have penalties then you'll know based on your OWN role PM which penalties should make sense when we all claim them."

I don't agree - I have no idea what to expect in other penalties and I don't see how claiming them will make certain people stand out. It might help us plan some strategies but it might help the mafia, too. What if someone's penalty is that they can't do anything till night 4? Then the mafia knows to avoid that person until night 3 and kill them then. What if the penalties for townies look a lot different from the penalties for blues? That could bite us in the ass.

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 08 2010 22:38 GMT

#179

Maybe it could help town. Maybe not. But I think there is no chance it doesn't help the mafia some. And I think it would only be a small chance that it helps town more than it helps mafia.

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 08 2010 23:34 GMT

#191

On August 09 2010 08:32 LSB wrote:
As for lynching Pyrr. I would advise AGAINST lynching Pyrr now. The logic works like this
Premise 1) If Bill Murry is Mafia, Pyrr is mafia
Premise 2) Bill Murry is Mafia
Therefore Pyrr is mafia.

However, we should first confirm premise #2. We do that by lynching BM. We're going to lynch BM anyways, so why not now? Lynching Pyrr first could lead to a dead townie. And Pyrr being green does not tell us anything about BM

Makes sense to me.

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 09 2010 00:21 GMT

#201

On August 09 2010 09:16 Scamp wrote:
LSB your last few posts have been much better and as a result I'm less suspicious of you now. Keep playing like that.

I'm totally down with the Bill Murray bandwagon right now as other than the inactive (who may have a legitimate excuse) he looks like the best play. The only thing that I'm concerned about it is that there seems to be no consideration as to what to do if BM flips green or blue. It doesn't clear Pyrr and puts more pressure on Ace, who at this point is looking like our strongest player.

It doesn't really put more pressure on Ace because it just means BM was fucking around. Or that Hesmyrr forgot some of his rules or we are misinterpreting them (doubt it). It doesn't clear me but I think it undermines the reasons people are currently voting for me, which based on me working in concert with BM.

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 09 2010 00:55 GMT

#215

On August 09 2010 09:45 Ace wrote:
what do you want the town to do instead?

Well I'm not certain that it's a bad idea at this point. But if it is, we can always analyze behavior and have blues act silently and, you know, play the game.

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 09 2010 01:01 GMT

#221

On August 09 2010 09:39 zeks wrote:
i'm up for the penalty posting

basically when i'm lynched, a random person is picked out of the people who voted for me, and that person gets permanent +1 vote to all future lynch votes no matter what

yeah i'm not very useful

fantastic, now the mafia can vote for you and say "well I wanted to lower the odds that the mafia get ahold of an extra vote.
I'm already not liking this penalty claim thing. Certain people have penalties that suggest we should kill them, certain people have penalties that suggest we don't kill them, we can't get closer to mafia, I think, because all we have is wifom "oh mafia wouldn't claim that because it makes lynching them look good", "mafia wouldn't claim that role because its too suspicious its look like they are just trying to seem to valuable to be lynched," etc. I don't get where we go with this other than being distracted from behavior analysis. Granted, we get a lot of material to look at but I think already the mafia can pick a few guaranteed greens to avoid while we don't get much help since anyone might be mafia from our point of view, whether they are claiming something that looks green or blue.

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 09 2010 01:02 GMT

#222

On August 09 2010 10:01 Ace wrote:

Show nested quote +

Where's the mistake? Hessmyrr's post doesn't say that penalties are tied to roles. I also know that from my role PM my penalty is NOT tied to my role. Likewise if you looked at bumatlarge's penalty claim his tree stump ability is also NOT tied to his penalty of upping scum population.You're making bad assumptions.

His tree stump ability, if used, ups the scum population. How could those two be any more linked, when there is a direct causal link between them?

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 09 2010 01:07 GMT

#228

##unvote
##vote Ace
Nice job for outing like four blues already.
Fuck you BM for screwing around. Don't sign up for anything again if you are gonna play like this (assuming you're not red).

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

August 09 2010 01:18 GMT

#238

On August 09 2010 10:12 citi.zen wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 09 2010 10:12 Ace wrote:

On August 09 2010 10:04 citi.zen wrote:

On August 09 2010 10:03 Ace wrote:

On August 09 2010 10:00 citi.zen wrote:

On August 09 2010 07:48 Ace wrote:

On August 09 2010 07:37 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
"If any townies have penalties then you'll know based on your OWN role PM which penalties should make sense when we all claim them."

I don't agree - I have no idea what to expect in other penalties and I don't see how claiming them will make certain people stand out. It might help us plan some strategies but it might help the mafia, too. What if someone's penalty is that they can't do anything till night 4? Then the mafia knows to avoid that person until night 3 and kill them then. What if the penalties for townies look a lot different from the penalties for blues? That could bite us in the ass.

If someone's penalty is they can't do anything until night 4 thats great. Because then we can remove them from any actions that happen at night, and if they still live on Night 4 we ask them to prove their action. Obviously if you can't act until Night 4 which would be ridiculous in any mafia game you've gotta have something damn near game breaking. So if the scum want to let that person until night 3 that's cool with me because before that said person better be going all out doing some intelligent scum hunting. But even all of this is moot because I did say don't make it too obvious what your role could be. On death once your role is revealed we can piece everything together. It doesn't even matter if Vanilla penalties look different than blue penalties - we just need a list of penalties period to even move forward.

So what if it helps the mafia? Would you rather the town not have any direction on where to go and just stumble around mindlessly? It's like complaining that Terran's are making infantry knowing that Zerg has lurkers. Execution of the plan is just as important as the plan itself. If you don't agree come up with a better idea because I'm all ears.

@divinek: now you're starting to get it ^_^

We KNOW for a fact that townies have restrictions and scum don't. They only have fake claims the host gave them. So if we are aware of our own penalties and KNOW that we have to behave a certain way then we can't do things that go against our PM where as scum can because theirs are fake. They can't fake their actions because once we see what most people's penalties look like and people start dying the picture becomes very clear.

Why are we so sure penalties are not linked to roles?

From what I've seen, and knowing my penalty, people with a blue role have penalties pertaining to that role (ex: can't use power Y unless X happens). Greens can't have that type of penalty. Telling everyone "I can't use my power unless X" means you are blue = pleasant sniping reds.

So I'd advise you to reconsider, unless you think some sort of mass role-claim is a good play. In some set-ups that is the case, in this one I personally haven't come to that conclusion.

I'll admit that, as usual, I don't pay close attention on weekends, am I missing something?

no need for role claims yet, just penalties. Like I said I gave you all my penalty and if you all think it's that simple then tell me what my role is ^_^

Look at bumatlarge's penalty claim: no one would know he was a tree stump (role) based on the fact that acting increases mafia population by 1 (penalty). The idea that penalties implies roles is false based on bumatlarge's post and the fact that my penalty also does not imply my role.

That's just it: he has to use his "ability" = he has an "ability". So he's some sort of blue that just got outed.

Being BLUE doesn't matter. You are looking at it wrong. Everyone has a role. EVERYONE. Ignore anything about blue roles for now. We only care about PENALTIES. If bumatlarge didn't tell you he was a tree stump you would never know. zeks just told us his penalty, do you know his role? I told you my penalty, do you know my role? See where I'm going now.

also *yawn* at Pyrr. I didn't out any blues but nice job at trying to spread some panic. I hope the Vigilante or whatever killing role we have shoots you asap.

Are you claiming there are no vanilla townies?

Well assume the stump guy is not red - he's basically a green townie because his power is so shitty you'd never use it. I think that's how the townies are in this game. Now maybe Ace is the same way since he said his power is too odd to use... so maybe Ace is green and not red. Blah. Or maybe the mafia are trying to hide by claiming powers that they will never and can never be asked to use in order to prove anything.