EPTMini Mafia 2 - Page 9
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L
Canada4732 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On January 07 2010 07:07 Ace wrote: Zato that would be a really odd mistake wouldn't it? Judge has experience playing Mafia on this site and another. If he never made that post I would have been fine with a no lynch for today. A mistake as far as you're concerned is what I meant. Call it 'he did something stupid' or however you like- my point is, lynching Judge for doing something you'd rather he hadn't done seems overkill, unless you're really serious about deterring people from day 1 roleclaiming. Lynching people should predominantly be our way to deal with mafia, rather than our way of dealing with people who play in a way you don't like. If you still want to lynch him because you think he's mafia, fine. But really, lynching him for any other reason is just dumb. | ||
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Chezinu
United States7456 Posts
so far from what I read, the posts of RoL and vivi seem to interest me. Ace's post about townies don't lie made me laugh but L beat me to it. There is nothing I can post that is of value because of my name. My name makes all my posts a waste. No one can really take me seriously. Maybe if I change my tone people will listen? But then again I could be doing that on purpose for it fits my character. But what happens if someone's character changes? Here I am trying not to post something of waste in the eyes of others. I have a question. What is a post in this game that isn't a waste? Everyone here has been through this game. There is no need to aid people in opening there minds to all possibilities. There is no need to state the noob mistakes some people make or if they are trying to make you think it is a noob mistake but really they did it on purpose ect.... So what are my thoughts...well, I was thinking that everyone has been accused this game except mikeymoo but vivi ended that... So really I have no thoughts that I can add. All I can do is write something that hopefully you guys dont think is a waste and wait for you guys to analysis me in this game of darkness. Really, this game takes blind faith sometimes especially on day 1. This is usually when I start messing with people for fun. But I decided to change my play...or did I really? Thats the thing, nothing I can say can mean anything thing especially because of my name. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On January 07 2010 07:11 L wrote: Who's putting blind faith in him? Its one thing to trust someone's telling us the truth, its completely another to kill him. If he's got a plan, he's on the hook to make it look good. If he does have a plan there isn't any reason to wait an entire Day to tell us. This is really one of the big signs painting him as Mafia to me. There is no reason to hold back. Secondly we do not know if he's telling the truth because we can't confirm it. This is the same thing we go through every game where for some reason people assume someone must be telling the truth IF they have a plan. Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING. There are plenty of townies who've lied for great, great profit in our games; its generally a fantastic idea for them to do so if their deception doesn't fuck the town over in any way. A vet would NEVER want to say "hey fuckers, I'm a vet", because the entire idea behind his role is to attract some rape to his face. A plain green townie should always be throwing off blue vibes so that mafia hit him over someone proper. When? In most of our games townies that lied have led to great disasters. Townies shouldn't be trying to lie to deceive anyone because hey - thats exactly what the Mafia are doing! And using your last sentences if Judge is a Medic then WHY WOULD HE BE WANTING TO GET HIT. Because he isn't a Medic. So you can't just make a "if he's medic, he wouldn't have done this" play. See, the way I see it is this; Last game you claimed DT, and I got you killed for it. Its clear that blues DO claim, and by our general series of day 1 claims, typically many do. You, nemY and quite a few others have balls'd up and gone for it. So why would you apply this rule to him now, yet not apply it to yourself during the last game? I mean, shit. Can't have it both ways. Did the last game have this rule set? I don't think so. When I claimed DT last game I was essentially invulnerable except for the Mafia having the option of switching BGs. This game has no Mayor/Pardoners so that's out of the window. There is nothing to be gained from anyone claiming to be a Medic on Day 1. Ever. Either way, judge is not the best risk/reward kill today by a longshot. Chances are he's medic/green/vet, nearly nil chance he's plain red, DT or vig, and I've never seen a godfather claim nearly immediately after the start of day 1, so this would be the ballsiest play I've ever seen as GF. Chances are he's Vet or Mafia. That's it. Doesn't even matter if he's plain red or GF. If he's red and he gets checked by the DT that means by Day 2 the DT is immediately outed in a game where the Mafia KP doesn't change based on Judge dying. As for any other candidates no one else is even near as suspicious as Judge. Somehow Malongo is being talked about based on 1 post he threw out there when Judge has several and SHOULD be talked about even more. Where the hell is everyone else playing this game? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On January 07 2010 07:25 Zato-1 wrote: A mistake as far as you're concerned is what I meant. Call it 'he did something stupid' or however you like- my point is, lynching Judge for doing something you'd rather he hadn't done seems overkill, unless you're really serious about deterring people from day 1 roleclaiming. Lynching people should predominantly be our way to deal with mafia, rather than our way of dealing with people who play in a way you don't like. If you still want to lynch him because you think he's mafia, fine. But really, lynching him for any other reason is just dumb. no I'm lynching him because I think he is Mafia. I was using the way he was playing as an argument for why I think he indeed is Mafia ^_^ And yes I'm strongly opposed to Day 1 role claims in most formats. | ||
mikeymoo
Canada7170 Posts
I agree with L and Vivi. I think there is a case for judge being Medic or Vet, and even if there's a chance for him being GF, we might want to keep him around. On the other hand, I have been thinking about this from a Medic's point of view for about a day, and it seems just like the rest of us, have come up dry in justifying this move. (Or at least publicly) It seems too valiant to be a townie protecting the real Medic, since it is unlikely the real Medic gets lynched on day 1 anyway. Which makes me lean toward Vet, but if that's the case, why make this move during the day? So to judge: can you answer if there was a good reason you claimed during the day? Who else is a good candidate? I'm going to look through the thread again, but nobody has struck me. I might abstain tonight if I can't find a good case (or be otherwise convinced) for someone else. Incognito, would you like me to edit my vote, or post a new one, if i decide to switch? | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
I've said part of it before. The first objective of the claim was to allow me to work out in the open, scare scum and also because I do have a plan. The second objective is to put myself in a position to lead the town in the right direction, because otherwise we'd be voting to no-lynch today, which on Day 1 is an awful play. You think it's scummy that I don't give out every detail of my plan? That's great. Unfortunately, as I've re-iterated before and I'll do again, giving out every detail of my plan makes it useless. Let me help you all out and put this claim in perspective from both points of view: From a Town-aligned point of view: I am a medic. I can sit back, hope not to draw too much attention to me during the day or the night and try and protect the right hits. OR I can come out in the open and claim. Thus, the mafia is now wondering a myriad of things. Am I the real medic? Am I bluffing? Can they hit me successfully? Will I protect the people I list? Will they hit the one I protect? If he's not the medic, we'll be able to get him lynched, but if he is, we might not. Do we try and kill him at night? Now I have one-up on the mafia. I don't need to outguess them. I'll protect who I choose to and wait. If you think a medic's only use is to absorb kills, you're dead wrong. From a scum-aligned point of view: I am mafia. I can sit back, let town go at themselves, maybe push for a no-lynch on D1 and help us just effortlessly pick people off. Or I can claim to be a medic. I can pass on a night-kill to try and confirm myself, but people might see through that. Or I can try and waste a DT check, but they might not buy into that either. When I don't die and other people start dying, I will be questioned. This isn't even WIFOM here, there is just no gain from a scum perspective. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
There is no reason to hold back. Secondly we do not know if he's telling the truth because we can't confirm it. 1) There's a rather large reason. 2) We will be able to find out if he is. Ace, feel free to examine what's going on objectively, because it makes things rather easy to sort out. Did the last game have this rule set? Last game's ruleset made it even more retarded to try to do what you did. Don't see how you're helping your case here; Clear example of pot and kettle.Either way, even if this was a 'mistake' from a medic's point of view, it would most certainly be a double mistake from a godfather's point of view; Again, there are ZERO instances of godfathers claiming this early, and there ARE ways of confirming him as town or mafia. Nothing point to the fact that he should be killed tonight, unless you're scared that you won't be smart enough to sway the town away from his plan if its bad, right Ace? Normally you aren't so short sighted  . | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
I'm going to stay on malongo for now not out of spite for him (he's in mountain time and can't post), but because judge was 2:2 and losing the tiebreaker. Now even if malongo swings on judge to save himself, someone else needs to come out and risk their neck to kill judge. As far as actual GOOD targets, RoL seems like the most lynchable mafia-tell producing person. I honestly don't think you're a terrible player, RoL, but I think your posts this game have been really odd. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On January 07 2010 08:34 L wrote: 1) There's a rather large reason. 2) We will be able to find out if he is. Ace, feel free to examine what's going on objectively, because it makes things rather easy to sort out. Last game's ruleset made it even more retarded to try to do what you did. Don't see how you're helping your case here; Clear example of pot and kettle. Either way, even if this was a 'mistake' from a medic's point of view, it would most certainly be a double mistake from a godfather's point of view; Again, there are ZERO instances of godfathers claiming this early, and there ARE ways of confirming him as town or mafia. Nothing point to the fact that he should be killed tonight, unless you're scared that you won't be smart enough to sway the town away from his plan if its bad, right Ace? Normally you aren't so short sighted . Last game I could be invincible. What are you talking about? lol have you forgotten already? It doesn't matter if you think he's a GF. The point is no one claims medic on Day 1. It's seriously a dumb move. It's like 4 pooling on an island map. There is nothing to gain. And this hey let's wait and see his plan along with this I can't tell you guys what my plan is mentality is screaming Mafia. And to top it all off now we want to lynch Malongo based on nothing? lol right. You guys are making PERFECT sense here. Answer me on how we are going to confirm judge is a medic. | ||
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mikeymoo
Canada7170 Posts
On January 07 2010 08:32 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: From a scum-aligned point of view: I am mafia. I can sit back, let town go at themselves, maybe push for a no-lynch on D1 and help us just effortlessly pick people off. Or I can claim to be a medic. I can pass on a night-kill to try and confirm myself, but people might see through that. Or I can try and waste a DT check, but they might not buy into that either. When I don't die and other people start dying, I will be questioned. This isn't even WIFOM here, there is just no gain from a scum perspective. Small point: I can't see why mafia would claim medic and pass on a night kill. A night miss can still be regarded as Vet, right? It still makes some sense (I guess?) to claim medic, just not passing on a night kill. | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On January 07 2010 09:07 mikeymoo wrote: Small point: I can't see why mafia would claim medic and pass on a night kill. A night miss can still be regarded as Vet, right? It still makes some sense (I guess?) to claim medic, just not passing on a night kill. It was just a possible way for mafia to try and confirm themselves being the medic. Obviously the vet throws it off as does the no confirmation via PM of a save. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go. | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On January 07 2010 09:13 HeavOnEarth wrote: Were you gonna make a medic list or something judge? There's still some 4 hours left to the day, I will though. Any input from players on who I should protect from the town? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
Ace reads as mafia to me, and his opposition on malongo sounds like he's trying to sway town away from lynching who he thinks is a townie. Two motivations: 1 - he knows malongo is a townie and is trying to earn town credit by pulling off of that lynch and voicing opposition. 2 - Malongo is his mafia buddy and he doesn't want him dead. L, Zato, Mikey and Scamp read town aligned to me, promoting decent discussion and trying to understand something. Not overly trusting or buddying, but not too paranoid. RoL is odd. He seemed to react very emotionally to the claim, which to me is generally a town-tell. But he hasn't really tried to wrap his head around anything, which to me is generally a scum-tell. Null-read atm. The rest are null-reads as well. Except Malongo. He reads mafia. | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On January 07 2010 09:23 Ace wrote: you must be a salesman in real life Actually, I'm a student. | ||
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On January 07 2010 09:31 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: So far Ace, L, RoL, mikey, Scamp and Zato have put forth discussion and not been putting up fluff. Chez hasn't put up much and I don't like that most recent post, Malongo put in a major bullshit go with the flow post and nemY has had minimal posting. Vivi hasn't really said much and is voting Mikey for some reason which he neglected to elaborate on. HoE has very few posts. Ace reads as mafia to me, and his opposition on malongo sounds like he's trying to sway town away from lynching who he thinks is a townie. Two motivations: 1 - he knows malongo is a townie and is trying to earn town credit by pulling off of that lynch and voicing opposition. 2 - Malongo is his mafia buddy and he doesn't want him dead. L, Zato, Mikey and Scamp read town aligned to me, promoting decent discussion and trying to understand something. Not overly trusting or buddying, but not too paranoid. RoL is odd. He seemed to react very emotionally to the claim, which to me is generally a town-tell. But he hasn't really tried to wrap his head around anything, which to me is generally a scum-tell. Null-read atm. The rest are null-reads as well. Except Malongo. He reads mafia. because.. ? o.O | ||
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