• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:54
CEST 03:54
KST 10:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak6DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview11herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025)15Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, GuMiho, Classic, Cure6Code S RO8 Preview: Classic, Reynor, Maru, GuMiho4
Community News
[BSL20] RO20 Group Stage0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)7Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results212025 GSL Season 2 (Qualifiers)14
StarCraft 2
General
DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview Any reason why RuFF's stream is still on sidebar? Power Rank: October 2018 herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025) Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results
Tourneys
DreamHack Dallas 2025 EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1) [GSL 2025] Code S Season 1 - RO4 and Grand Finals RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series DreamHack Dallas 2025 announced (May 23-25)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed
Brood War
General
[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Artosis baned on twitch ? who is JiriKara /Cipisek/ from CZ Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
[ASL19] Semifinal B [BSL20] RO20 Group Stage [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Grand Theft Auto VI Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Men's Fashion Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Books] Wool by Hugh Howey
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Yes Sir! How Commanding Impr…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11905 users

Mini Mafia 2 - Page 8

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 33 Next All
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
January 06 2010 19:15 GMT
#141
On January 07 2010 00:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 00:45 Zato-1 wrote:
Get a hold of yourself, man. Trying to vindicate your actions in a previous game, fighting back at random insults and posting 6 times consecutively while sounding really passionate at the same time just makes it look like you're lashing out. Not conducive to a smart, organized Town at all. So, yeah- less talk-back and discussing other games, more discussing what we should be doing this game please.

Read more please, 90% of what I wrote was about this game and Judge's actions. The other 10% was about talking about past games. I just simply said that Ace can't continue being a dick because hes mad I fucked him over when I was a VI like 2 years ago. This grudge shit is annoying and not productive. Ace assumes he knows everything about everything when in reality most people in my situation would of done the same shit most likely including himself.

Can we please just focus on Judge? and i was posting as I was reading and knowing that a lot of people just skip text blocks I repeated a few things as I was reading.


I actually forgot about the VI thing. You really just sucked last game ^_^
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
nemY
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States3119 Posts
January 06 2010 19:21 GMT
#142
My Problem with Judge

On August 24 2009 14:27 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Here's the problem with the "medic claims" plan - the mod can discretionarily leave out any of those roles. So mafia can make a gambit and say "I'm the DT." and the medic only gets one DT claim. You bus one mafioso, since KP doesn't change. Medic announces "ydg is mafia" and then people lynch him and he is, DT is trusted. NK a townie. Town is down to 9, takes 5 to lynch. The fake-DT offers up an innocent. Town lynches someone else as long as the fake-DT's partner lays low. They nightkill the innocent. Down to 7, takes 4 to lynch. Another innocent is offered up. Another non-investigated player is lynched. Said innocent is NKed. Down to 5, takes 3 to lynch. Lylo for town. fake-DT offers an innocent, lynch the other, and GG. They NK the other non-medic and 2 mafiosos vote to lynch the medic next day. One mafioso is sacced to gain the trust of the town and then it's field day.

EDIT: That's just one scenario that could play out. You could have a medic only game in this format theoretically. The semi-openness is what makes it balanced. It's very hard for a semi-open format to be broken by a massclaim because you can have as many or as little of each role.


was posted in the previous Mini-Mafia game here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=99804&currentpage=20

Now Judge specifically dismisses the idea of a anyone publicly roleclaiming and now he wants us to believe that it's ok with him? Are you suppose to be an exception to your own rule? You say you have a fail-safe plan? This game isn't designed to have fail-safe 100% guaranteed plans.

Besides that, the track record with anybody publicly role-claiming before night one is zilch I believe (myself included). All they do is start needless chaos and mayhem (which is always in the best interests of the mafia). The best method for reducing this needless drama is getting rid of them early. This is why I'm voting to lynch Judge.
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
January 06 2010 19:21 GMT
#143
haha well we can forget about the past and focus on the present!

Who do you want to kill?
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
vx70GTOJudgexv
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3161 Posts
January 06 2010 19:25 GMT
#144
nemY - I honestly forgot about that. I also hadn't seen this plan in use when I had made that post, fwiw. That post was some 5 months ago. I've played about 9 games since then and read plenty more.

And this is a different plan from that, trust me :D

Scamp, I'm trying to remember the game # of where I last saw it used, when I do I'll link it.
(-_-) BW for ever. #1 Iris fan.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
January 06 2010 19:25 GMT
#145
On January 07 2010 01:53 Zato-1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2010 09:18 Malongo wrote:
-I really dont see the point in RoLs post and i dont like the fact that scamp came up just 10 minutes later to support his own defence. How did RoL knew scamp wasnt inactive? Why is RoL too lazy to read tonight but has his time to half defend scamp? Maybe this is just a coincidence but since we are lynching almost on blind i like RoL. At least we can autofire at scamp if RoL flips red.

-For Judges claim its really not that important its not like he was a primary target for the town to lynch and if he is town alligned he can keep mafia guessing. Its something like claiming Im a cat.

- Ls posting seem almost smart so im inclined to tell judge and L are town/side.

I'm grasping here, but this is the only post so far that hints at someone being mafia. This someone being its author, Malongo. Why?

First paragraph, he supports lynching RoL just because 'if he flips red, Scamp is also mafia'. I see no good reason to suspect RoL is mafia, and I don't see this chummy mafioso friendship between RoL and Scamp. In essence, his argument is, "I think if we kill RoL and he flips red, we'll get two birds in one stone! If we kill him and he's Townie, well then, too bad". How convenient does that sound if you're actually Mafia and you know RoL is not on your side?

Third paragraph, he's saying L and Judge are trustworthy, and putting himself by their sides. He's basically creating two small groups; "Good Guys" which includes L, Judge and himself (He might even know L and Judge to be Townies; he can just kill them off at night and vindicate his good game sense, saying "I told you so!"), and "Bad Guys", which right now is just RoL, the person he wants to kill.

I am in no way certain Malongo is mafia, but it does look like mafia mentality to me. Malongo, you've earned my vote.


I understand what you're trying to do it but it's not concrete enough. Judge is far more suspicious than Malongo posting about how he randomly thinks RoL is scummy.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
vx70GTOJudgexv
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3161 Posts
January 06 2010 19:30 GMT
#146
Wow. You guys are fucking retarded.

Do I have to spell out EVERY SINGLE FUCKING ACTION for you?

Because I might as well before the lynch, if you plan on killing me tonight - let me know so I can explain how this would've worked.
(-_-) BW for ever. #1 Iris fan.
vx70GTOJudgexv
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3161 Posts
January 06 2010 19:30 GMT
#147
BTW - Ace is mafia, calling it now.
(-_-) BW for ever. #1 Iris fan.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
January 06 2010 19:35 GMT
#148
BTW - Judge is mafia, calling it now.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
January 06 2010 19:46 GMT
#149
hey guyz can we double lynch Ace and Judge? They are both mafia according to each other.

It will go great with my plan to lynch only reds and have our medics protect only blues.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
January 06 2010 20:04 GMT
#150
Lol you kids are stupid. Are you serious with this voting pattern in the voting thread?
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
Zato-1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile4253 Posts
January 06 2010 20:39 GMT
#151
On January 07 2010 04:25 Ace wrote:
I understand what you're trying to do it but it's not concrete enough. Judge is far more suspicious than Malongo posting about how he randomly thinks RoL is scummy.

Well, this is how I see it.

Judge says he has a plan. In my experience from previous games, when people say they have a plan but don't want to reveal it just yet, what they usually mean is, "I'm bluffing, so just trust me, m'kay?" I have little reason to believe it will be different this time.

This does not, however, imply that Judge is mafia. He's been far too conspicuous, and for what? Wasting a DT role check? I wouldn't even check him. Anyone that comes up as anything other than a standard mafia thug could be the Godfather, so really, the best use for RCs is to try to confirm suspected mafia members. Everyone here seems to agree that he's either a) A medic, B) The Godfather, or C) A Vet trying to take a hit. So, yeah- chances are he won't show up as a regular mafia thug, and thus wouldn't even waste a DT check if the DT is smart.

Or hey, Judge could be telling the truth and actually be a medic. Mafia will be happy to jump on the "He's generally suspicious, so lynch him" bandwagon in that case.

I'm not saying he's innocent- that I can't know. What I am saying is, please think before casting your lynch vote. "He's generally suspicious because someone else said so" is not a good reason. "I think he's probably mafia based on the analysis I've made of his posts" IS a good enough reason.
Go here http://vina.biobiochile.cl/ and input the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right B A)
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
January 06 2010 20:55 GMT
#152
Well I'm going to keep my vote on him because my standard policy for standard games still applies here: lynch Day 1 roleclaimers unless they have some serious proof or compelling argument.

Look at what Judge has just done.

Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone

I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?

So because he MIGHT be a blue we shouldn't lynch him? That argument happens every game and I'm pretty sure we can all agree it's a useless platform to go on.

I said at the end of last mini mafia that anyone role claiming medic is destined to die. The Medic role generally wants to avoid getting hit even if he can protect himself. However he/she does it is whatever, but trying to attract fire would be unwise. Hence, Judge definitely is NOT a medic. No one has ever gotten a free pass for role claiming on Day 1 and those were almost always Detective claims. So why are we letting a Medic claim go?
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Scamp
Profile Joined October 2008
United States1086 Posts
January 06 2010 21:11 GMT
#153
On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote:
No one has ever gotten a free pass for role claiming on Day 1 and those were almost always Detective claims. So why are we letting a Medic claim go?


Because no matter what Judge really is we have the opportunity for some exceptional information. At the very least, I'm inclined to keep him around because he's got a plan he's going to put into action for better or for worse. Meanwhile there are several people who clearly aren't going to do jack shit, and it's very likely that there's at least one mafia in that group of people.


I agree with what Zato said about voting for people, I just don't think there's enough on Malongo to vote for him right now. That being said, I also don't expect much to go on on day 1 either. It's now about 1PM PST. Voting ends at 8PM PST. If Malongo (also Chezinu, for that matter) doesn't post anything by 5PM PST I'm voting for him, since I'm going to be gone from 5PM onwards.
Cheese is good for you!
Vivi57
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States6599 Posts
January 06 2010 21:24 GMT
#154
I really hate the idea of lynching judge now. If he's gf, we get him now and save a little potential damage.

If he's medic/vet, we just massively fucked up.


Basically, by not wanting to wait to lynch judge, you're saying that you think he could completely fuck us over and that you're not good enough to poke holes in his plan and see him as the gf. Collectively, we *are* that good so there's really no point in lynching him now.

At this point, I think it's +ev for the mafia not to accuse anyone and just stay out of the way while the town hangs itself. The people who haven't posted much or accused anyone are:

chez
heavon
mikeymoo

All 3 have posted a bit, but haven't actually said anything. I'm much less inclined to kill heavon because it seems like he's putting in a decent effort. Chez has said that he is going to not do his brown crap this game and not posted anything else. Mikeymoo has responded more directly to the game, but not really to any situations that have arisen. Because of this, I'm going to put my vote there for now, but may have to change it because I think judge should live till day 2 at least.
Flash hwaiting! Nal_rA forever!
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
January 06 2010 21:25 GMT
#155
what exceptional information? I really want to know this.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
January 06 2010 21:31 GMT
#156
On January 07 2010 06:24 Vivi57 wrote:
I really hate the idea of lynching judge now. If he's gf, we get him now and save a little potential damage.

If he's medic/vet, we just massively fucked up.


Basically, by not wanting to wait to lynch judge, you're saying that you think he could completely fuck us over and that you're not good enough to poke holes in his plan and see him as the gf. Collectively, we *are* that good so there's really no point in lynching him now.


I actually don't even care what his plan is. The fact that he has a plan and hasn't said a word about it speaks volumes. This is an 11 player game - what plan does he really have that's so fragile but powerful that it needs to be stated on Day 2 instead of Day 1? How does that help the town?

Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING.

I'm not going through this "he might be blue" shit again. I've said in countless games I really don't give a shit about not lynching someone solely because they might have a power role. If you make a big gamble and you make a mistake you deserve to be at the center of the lynch discussion.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Zato-1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile4253 Posts
January 06 2010 22:01 GMT
#157
On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote:
So because he MIGHT be a blue we shouldn't lynch him? That argument happens every game and I'm pretty sure we can all agree it's a useless platform to go on.

No, I'm saying we shouldn't lynch him because I think others are more likely to be mafia. Like Malongo.

On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote:
Well I'm going to keep my vote on him because my standard policy for standard games still applies here: lynch Day 1 roleclaimers unless they have some serious proof or compelling argument.

Fine, be that way. I'm not so fanatically opposed to day 1 roleclaiming. Yet. I've yet to see how it plays out in this game.


On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote:
Look at what Judge has just done.

Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone

I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?

Ok, so for the sake of argument, let's say he made a mistake. It's done. So now your plan is to execute him for it? To what end? I'm not convinced.
Go here http://vina.biobiochile.cl/ and input the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right B A)
mikeymoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada7170 Posts
January 06 2010 22:03 GMT
#158
On January 07 2010 06:24 Vivi57 wrote:
At this point, I think it's +ev for the mafia not to accuse anyone and just stay out of the way while the town hangs itself. The people who haven't posted much or accused anyone are:

chez
heavon
mikeymoo

All 3 have posted a bit, but haven't actually said anything. I'm much less inclined to kill heavon because it seems like he's putting in a decent effort. Chez has said that he is going to not do his brown crap this game and not posted anything else. Mikeymoo has responded more directly to the game, but not really to any situations that have arisen. Because of this, I'm going to put my vote there for now, but may have to change it because I think judge should live till day 2 at least.

Hi I have school from 8-3 Mountain Time daily. I intend on giving my thoughts today, so hold your horses, alright? Reading now. Most of the game passes while I'm at school, and I suppose that's just unfortunate timing for me.
o_x | Ow. | 1003 ESPORTS dollars | If you have any questions about bans please PM Kennigit
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
January 06 2010 22:07 GMT
#159
Zato that would be a really odd mistake wouldn't it? Judge has experience playing Mafia on this site and another. If he never made that post I would have been fine with a no lynch for today.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
January 06 2010 22:11 GMT
#160
Look at what Judge has just done.

Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone

I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?
Who's putting blind faith in him?

Its one thing to trust someone's telling us the truth, its completely another to kill him.

If he's got a plan, he's on the hook to make it look good.

Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING.
There are plenty of townies who've lied for great, great profit in our games; its generally a fantastic idea for them to do so if their deception doesn't fuck the town over in any way. A vet would NEVER want to say "hey fuckers, I'm a vet", because the entire idea behind his role is to attract some rape to his face. A plain green townie should always be throwing off blue vibes so that mafia hit him over someone proper.

So you can't just make a "if he's medic, he wouldn't have done this" play. See, the way I see it is this; Last game you claimed DT, and I got you killed for it. Its clear that blues DO claim, and by our general series of day 1 claims, typically many do. You, nemY and quite a few others have balls'd up and gone for it. So why would you apply this rule to him now, yet not apply it to yourself during the last game?

I mean, shit. Can't have it both ways.

Either way, judge is not the best risk/reward kill today by a longshot. Chances are he's medic/green/vet, nearly nil chance he's plain red, DT or vig, and I've never seen a godfather claim nearly immediately after the start of day 1, so this would be the ballsiest play I've ever seen as GF.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 33 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #15
Nicoract vs ChanceLIVE!
Moja vs MindelVK
INexorable vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
Demi vs TBD
xJustxJordanx3
Liquipedia
Replay Cast
00:00
2025 GSL S2 - Qualifiers
CranKy Ducklings136
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft441
JimRising 400
RuFF_SC2 217
CosmosSc2 60
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 3685
NaDa 76
Sharp 29
Icarus 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever328
Counter-Strike
Fnx 2810
Stewie2K549
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0711
hungrybox589
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor116
Other Games
summit1g14027
tarik_tv8381
shahzam541
ViBE217
Trikslyr59
PPMD36
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV165
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 80
• HeavenSC 27
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra1895
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 6m
Road to EWC
13h 6m
Replay Cast
1d 8h
SC Evo League
1d 10h
Road to EWC
1d 13h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
BeSt vs Soulkey
Road to EWC
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
SOOP
4 days
NightMare vs Wayne
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Cure vs Zoun
Solar vs Creator
The PondCast
5 days
Online Event
5 days
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
GSL Code S
6 days
GuMiho vs Bunny
ByuN vs SHIN
Online Event
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-16
2025 GSL S1
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Heroes 10 EU
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

Rose Open S1
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.