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On January 07 2010 00:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 00:45 Zato-1 wrote:
Get a hold of yourself, man. Trying to vindicate your actions in a previous game, fighting back at random insults and posting 6 times consecutively while sounding really passionate at the same time just makes it look like you're lashing out. Not conducive to a smart, organized Town at all. So, yeah- less talk-back and discussing other games, more discussing what we should be doing this game please. Read more please, 90% of what I wrote was about this game and Judge's actions. The other 10% was about talking about past games. I just simply said that Ace can't continue being a dick because hes mad I fucked him over when I was a VI like 2 years ago. This grudge shit is annoying and not productive. Ace assumes he knows everything about everything when in reality most people in my situation would of done the same shit most likely including himself. Can we please just focus on Judge? and i was posting as I was reading and knowing that a lot of people just skip text blocks I repeated a few things as I was reading.
I actually forgot about the VI thing. You really just sucked last game ^_^
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My Problem with Judge
On August 24 2009 14:27 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Here's the problem with the "medic claims" plan - the mod can discretionarily leave out any of those roles. So mafia can make a gambit and say "I'm the DT." and the medic only gets one DT claim. You bus one mafioso, since KP doesn't change. Medic announces "ydg is mafia" and then people lynch him and he is, DT is trusted. NK a townie. Town is down to 9, takes 5 to lynch. The fake-DT offers up an innocent. Town lynches someone else as long as the fake-DT's partner lays low. They nightkill the innocent. Down to 7, takes 4 to lynch. Another innocent is offered up. Another non-investigated player is lynched. Said innocent is NKed. Down to 5, takes 3 to lynch. Lylo for town. fake-DT offers an innocent, lynch the other, and GG. They NK the other non-medic and 2 mafiosos vote to lynch the medic next day. One mafioso is sacced to gain the trust of the town and then it's field day.
EDIT: That's just one scenario that could play out. You could have a medic only game in this format theoretically. The semi-openness is what makes it balanced. It's very hard for a semi-open format to be broken by a massclaim because you can have as many or as little of each role.
was posted in the previous Mini-Mafia game here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=99804¤tpage=20
Now Judge specifically dismisses the idea of a anyone publicly roleclaiming and now he wants us to believe that it's ok with him? Are you suppose to be an exception to your own rule? You say you have a fail-safe plan? This game isn't designed to have fail-safe 100% guaranteed plans.
Besides that, the track record with anybody publicly role-claiming before night one is zilch I believe (myself included). All they do is start needless chaos and mayhem (which is always in the best interests of the mafia). The best method for reducing this needless drama is getting rid of them early. This is why I'm voting to lynch Judge.
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haha well we can forget about the past and focus on the present!
Who do you want to kill?
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United States3161 Posts
nemY - I honestly forgot about that. I also hadn't seen this plan in use when I had made that post, fwiw. That post was some 5 months ago. I've played about 9 games since then and read plenty more.
And this is a different plan from that, trust me :D
Scamp, I'm trying to remember the game # of where I last saw it used, when I do I'll link it.
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On January 07 2010 01:53 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 09:18 Malongo wrote:
-I really dont see the point in RoLs post and i dont like the fact that scamp came up just 10 minutes later to support his own defence. How did RoL knew scamp wasnt inactive? Why is RoL too lazy to read tonight but has his time to half defend scamp? Maybe this is just a coincidence but since we are lynching almost on blind i like RoL. At least we can autofire at scamp if RoL flips red.
-For Judges claim its really not that important its not like he was a primary target for the town to lynch and if he is town alligned he can keep mafia guessing. Its something like claiming Im a cat.
- Ls posting seem almost smart so im inclined to tell judge and L are town/side.
I'm grasping here, but this is the only post so far that hints at someone being mafia. This someone being its author, Malongo. Why? First paragraph, he supports lynching RoL just because 'if he flips red, Scamp is also mafia'. I see no good reason to suspect RoL is mafia, and I don't see this chummy mafioso friendship between RoL and Scamp. In essence, his argument is, "I think if we kill RoL and he flips red, we'll get two birds in one stone! If we kill him and he's Townie, well then, too bad". How convenient does that sound if you're actually Mafia and you know RoL is not on your side? Third paragraph, he's saying L and Judge are trustworthy, and putting himself by their sides. He's basically creating two small groups; "Good Guys" which includes L, Judge and himself (He might even know L and Judge to be Townies; he can just kill them off at night and vindicate his good game sense, saying "I told you so!"), and "Bad Guys", which right now is just RoL, the person he wants to kill. I am in no way certain Malongo is mafia, but it does look like mafia mentality to me. Malongo, you've earned my vote.
I understand what you're trying to do it but it's not concrete enough. Judge is far more suspicious than Malongo posting about how he randomly thinks RoL is scummy.
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United States3161 Posts
Wow. You guys are fucking retarded.
Do I have to spell out EVERY SINGLE FUCKING ACTION for you?
Because I might as well before the lynch, if you plan on killing me tonight - let me know so I can explain how this would've worked.
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United States3161 Posts
BTW - Ace is mafia, calling it now.
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BTW - Judge is mafia, calling it now.
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hey guyz can we double lynch Ace and Judge? They are both mafia according to each other.
It will go great with my plan to lynch only reds and have our medics protect only blues.
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Lol you kids are stupid. Are you serious with this voting pattern in the voting thread?
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On January 07 2010 04:25 Ace wrote:
I understand what you're trying to do it but it's not concrete enough. Judge is far more suspicious than Malongo posting about how he randomly thinks RoL is scummy.
Well, this is how I see it.
Judge says he has a plan. In my experience from previous games, when people say they have a plan but don't want to reveal it just yet, what they usually mean is, "I'm bluffing, so just trust me, m'kay?" I have little reason to believe it will be different this time.
This does not, however, imply that Judge is mafia. He's been far too conspicuous, and for what? Wasting a DT role check? I wouldn't even check him. Anyone that comes up as anything other than a standard mafia thug could be the Godfather, so really, the best use for RCs is to try to confirm suspected mafia members. Everyone here seems to agree that he's either a) A medic, B) The Godfather, or C) A Vet trying to take a hit. So, yeah- chances are he won't show up as a regular mafia thug, and thus wouldn't even waste a DT check if the DT is smart.
Or hey, Judge could be telling the truth and actually be a medic. Mafia will be happy to jump on the "He's generally suspicious, so lynch him" bandwagon in that case.
I'm not saying he's innocent- that I can't know. What I am saying is, please think before casting your lynch vote. "He's generally suspicious because someone else said so" is not a good reason. "I think he's probably mafia based on the analysis I've made of his posts" IS a good enough reason.
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Well I'm going to keep my vote on him because my standard policy for standard games still applies here: lynch Day 1 roleclaimers unless they have some serious proof or compelling argument.
Look at what Judge has just done.
Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone
I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?
So because he MIGHT be a blue we shouldn't lynch him? That argument happens every game and I'm pretty sure we can all agree it's a useless platform to go on.
I said at the end of last mini mafia that anyone role claiming medic is destined to die. The Medic role generally wants to avoid getting hit even if he can protect himself. However he/she does it is whatever, but trying to attract fire would be unwise. Hence, Judge definitely is NOT a medic. No one has ever gotten a free pass for role claiming on Day 1 and those were almost always Detective claims. So why are we letting a Medic claim go?
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On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote:
No one has ever gotten a free pass for role claiming on Day 1 and those were almost always Detective claims. So why are we letting a Medic claim go?
Because no matter what Judge really is we have the opportunity for some exceptional information. At the very least, I'm inclined to keep him around because he's got a plan he's going to put into action for better or for worse. Meanwhile there are several people who clearly aren't going to do jack shit, and it's very likely that there's at least one mafia in that group of people.
I agree with what Zato said about voting for people, I just don't think there's enough on Malongo to vote for him right now. That being said, I also don't expect much to go on on day 1 either. It's now about 1PM PST. Voting ends at 8PM PST. If Malongo (also Chezinu, for that matter) doesn't post anything by 5PM PST I'm voting for him, since I'm going to be gone from 5PM onwards.
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I really hate the idea of lynching judge now. If he's gf, we get him now and save a little potential damage.
If he's medic/vet, we just massively fucked up.
Basically, by not wanting to wait to lynch judge, you're saying that you think he could completely fuck us over and that you're not good enough to poke holes in his plan and see him as the gf. Collectively, we *are* that good so there's really no point in lynching him now.
At this point, I think it's +ev for the mafia not to accuse anyone and just stay out of the way while the town hangs itself. The people who haven't posted much or accused anyone are:
chez
heavon
mikeymoo
All 3 have posted a bit, but haven't actually said anything. I'm much less inclined to kill heavon because it seems like he's putting in a decent effort. Chez has said that he is going to not do his brown crap this game and not posted anything else. Mikeymoo has responded more directly to the game, but not really to any situations that have arisen. Because of this, I'm going to put my vote there for now, but may have to change it because I think judge should live till day 2 at least.
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what exceptional information? I really want to know this.
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On January 07 2010 06:24 Vivi57 wrote:
I really hate the idea of lynching judge now. If he's gf, we get him now and save a little potential damage.
If he's medic/vet, we just massively fucked up.
Basically, by not wanting to wait to lynch judge, you're saying that you think he could completely fuck us over and that you're not good enough to poke holes in his plan and see him as the gf. Collectively, we *are* that good so there's really no point in lynching him now.
I actually don't even care what his plan is. The fact that he has a plan and hasn't said a word about it speaks volumes. This is an 11 player game - what plan does he really have that's so fragile but powerful that it needs to be stated on Day 2 instead of Day 1? How does that help the town?
Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING.
I'm not going through this "he might be blue" shit again. I've said in countless games I really don't give a shit about not lynching someone solely because they might have a power role. If you make a big gamble and you make a mistake you deserve to be at the center of the lynch discussion.
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On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote:
So because he MIGHT be a blue we shouldn't lynch him? That argument happens every game and I'm pretty sure we can all agree it's a useless platform to go on.
No, I'm saying we shouldn't lynch him because I think others are more likely to be mafia. Like Malongo.
On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote:
Well I'm going to keep my vote on him because my standard policy for standard games still applies here: lynch Day 1 roleclaimers unless they have some serious proof or compelling argument.
Fine, be that way. I'm not so fanatically opposed to day 1 roleclaiming. Yet. I've yet to see how it plays out in this game.
On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote:
Look at what Judge has just done.
Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone
I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?
Ok, so for the sake of argument, let's say he made a mistake. It's done. So now your plan is to execute him for it? To what end? I'm not convinced.
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Canada7170 Posts
On January 07 2010 06:24 Vivi57 wrote:
At this point, I think it's +ev for the mafia not to accuse anyone and just stay out of the way while the town hangs itself. The people who haven't posted much or accused anyone are:
chez
heavon
mikeymoo
All 3 have posted a bit, but haven't actually said anything. I'm much less inclined to kill heavon because it seems like he's putting in a decent effort. Chez has said that he is going to not do his brown crap this game and not posted anything else. Mikeymoo has responded more directly to the game, but not really to any situations that have arisen. Because of this, I'm going to put my vote there for now, but may have to change it because I think judge should live till day 2 at least.
Hi I have school from 8-3 Mountain Time daily. I intend on giving my thoughts today, so hold your horses, alright? Reading now. Most of the game passes while I'm at school, and I suppose that's just unfortunate timing for me.
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Zato that would be a really odd mistake wouldn't it? Judge has experience playing Mafia on this site and another. If he never made that post I would have been fine with a no lynch for today.
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Look at what Judge has just done.
Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone
I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?
Who's putting blind faith in him?
Its one thing to trust someone's telling us the truth, its completely another to kill him.
If he's got a plan, he's on the hook to make it look good.
Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING. There are plenty of townies who've lied for great, great profit in our games; its generally a fantastic idea for them to do so if their deception doesn't fuck the town over in any way. A vet would NEVER want to say "hey fuckers, I'm a vet", because the entire idea behind his role is to attract some rape to his face. A plain green townie should always be throwing off blue vibes so that mafia hit him over someone proper.
So you can't just make a "if he's medic, he wouldn't have done this" play. See, the way I see it is this; Last game you claimed DT, and I got you killed for it. Its clear that blues DO claim, and by our general series of day 1 claims, typically many do. You, nemY and quite a few others have balls'd up and gone for it. So why would you apply this rule to him now, yet not apply it to yourself during the last game?
I mean, shit. Can't have it both ways.
Either way, judge is not the best risk/reward kill today by a longshot. Chances are he's medic/green/vet, nearly nil chance he's plain red, DT or vig, and I've never seen a godfather claim nearly immediately after the start of day 1, so this would be the ballsiest play I've ever seen as GF.
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EPT
