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United States97274 Posts
On August 11 2012 07:35 airtown wrote:
Also, this is kind of a weird pattern I've noticed in the years world records were set for men and women in individual running events included in the Olympics:
Men:
800m - 2012
marathon - 2011
100m - 2009
200m - 2009
110m hurdles - 2008
10000m - 2005
5000m - 2004
steeplechase - 2004
400m - 1999
1500m - 1998
400m hurdles - 1992
Women:
steeplechase - 2008
5000m - 2008
400m hurdles - 2003
marathon - 2003
1500m - 1993
10000m - 1993
110m hurdles - 1988
100m - 1988
200m - 1988
400m - 1985
800m - 1983
As you can see, the world records in running for women tend to be far older than they are for men. This runs contrary to what I would expect, since over the past few decades it's become far more common and socially acceptable for females to be involved in competitive sports (ex. this year there were just as many girls as boys on my school's track team). Any ideas for why women's world records tend to be so old? Were performance enhancing drugs just really commonly used among women in the 80s?
I know a lot of people have accused Flo-Jo of using performance enhancing drugs during her 1988 100m and 200m world record setting performances since she had a dramatic improvement in time leading up to that Olympics, but as far as I know she passed all her drug tests and they were never able to prove anything before she died. It's possible that they were potentially using drugs that could not be tested for yet or the tests werent as reliable. I believe the IOC now keeps samples for several years just in case
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Florence Joyner made an unbeatable mark in the 100m and 200m. If you take her times out, men's vs women's records is much more comparable. And if you take her time out, the time progression for the 100m and 200m world records aren't dissimilar to mens. Jeter has the second fastest time in 2009, Fraser had the 4th fastest time at this Olympics, and the 3rd time is proven doper Marion Jones.
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On August 11 2012 08:05 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 07:35 airtown wrote:
As you can see, the world records in running for women tend to be far older than they are for men. This runs contrary to what I would expect, since over the past few decades it's become far more common and socially acceptable for females to be involved in competitive sports (ex. this year there were just as many girls as boys on my school's track team). Any ideas for why women's world records tend to be so old? Were performance enhancing drugs just really commonly used among women in the 80s? I know a lot of people have accused Flo-Jo of using performance enhancing drugs during her 1988 100m and 200m world record setting performances since she had a dramatic improvement in time leading up to that Olympics, but as far as I know she passed all her drug tests and they were never able to prove anything before she died. It's possible that they were potentially using drugs that could not be tested for yet or the tests werent as reliable. I believe the IOC now keeps samples for several years just in case
You don't pop two pills in the morning and then run an incredible time at the Olympics. The athlete uses the drugs to recover faster from hard workouts so that they can train at levels they couldn't before. This in turn allows them to reach higher peak form than before. A smart coach will have tested the urine and blood of their athlete beforehand to know that it is clean and will then come to the track meet.
Marion Jones, for example never once tested positive, but got caught when her connections with known drug distributors were uncovered (BALCO). The GDR team of the 80's had one or two cases of an athlete testing positive yet all those athletes were cycling steroids since they were 15, which is why some records still stand (the 400m record looks like it'll never be beaten).
The point is: the IOC can't do anything with the samples because the athlete has flushed the drugs from their system long before they come to the meet. Athletes that get caught at meets have either made a mistake in estimating clearance times or have used a substance that was previously legal yet became illegal/testable at the time of the meet. The best time they can catch the athletes using banned substances is in the offseason. That can be difficult in the the more corrupt countries where the country's own federation will probably warn the athlete ahead of time when the testers will arrive.
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The 4x100 relay will be fun. I wonder if the US has any chance vs Jamaica, barring no major fucks ups by either.
Blake and Bolt are certainly superior to Gatlin and Gay (who i assume is running) but how do the #3 and 4 runners of each nation compare?
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On August 11 2012 20:38 DannyJ wrote:
The 4x100 relay will be fun. I wonder if the US has any chance vs Jamaica, barring no major fucks ups by either.
Blake and Bolt are certainly superior to Gatlin and Gay (who i assume is running) but how do the #3 and 4 runners of each nation compare?
They got Asafa aswell but not sure if he is injured after what happened in the 100 meter race
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On August 11 2012 21:23 DwD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 20:38 DannyJ wrote:
The 4x100 relay will be fun. I wonder if the US has any chance vs Jamaica, barring no major fucks ups by either.
Blake and Bolt are certainly superior to Gatlin and Gay (who i assume is running) but how do the #3 and 4 runners of each nation compare? They got Asafa aswell but not sure if he is injured after what happened in the 100 meter race
He is injured but may not even have been picked for the team.
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On August 11 2012 06:54 airtown wrote:
The women's 1500m was the single worst high level race I've ever seen. The winning time was about 20 seconds off of the world record (not to mention the fall at the end.) I don't understand why the best runners in these distances (including women like Dibaba who only got a bronze in the 5000) don't just spend some time before meets practicing having an even pace, then run like Rudisha as opposed to just trying to stay in the middle of the pack until the very end.
On a positive note, the women's 4x100 race was fantastic and Jamaica's men's 4x100 team is now in a position to smash the world record.
They don't have any problems running even pace. The issue is you can't do that in a final. If you go to the front and lead, you have to do all the work as the leader and the other runners just sit back and cruise. By the time final lap comes around if you have been leading all race then you've been working much harder than anyone else and they just blow by you on the final lap.
So basically you don't see fast first halfs in the finals because without a pacer to be the "sacrificial lamb" no one wants to take to hard from the gun and push the pace up front as a sacrifice. If the pace isn't fast, then leading isn't as bad because your well below submaximal and not pushing redline.
Rudisha was able to front run like the because:
1) It's an 800m race
2) Rudisha is absurdly better than the field, he so drastically better that there is no one that can even try to hang with him so he can do what he wants.
The women's 1500m was the single worst high level race I've ever seen. The winning time was about 20 seconds off of the world record (not to mention the fall at the end.)
This does not make a race bad, though in this race the first lap was hilariously slow...not sure why. Also, the WR time is fairly ridiculous with a more honest WR record likely being 3:55.
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Props to the U.S. for not dropping the baton.
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Ouch, another heart break for Canada.
London Olympics haven't been kind to us.
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On August 12 2012 05:16 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Ouch, another heart break for Canada.
London Olympics haven't been kind to us.
Yeah thats a total bummer given they were thought to have virtually no medal shot
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Great races the past 2 days. The 5k was pretty interesting. I'm glad Lomong was so ambitious and challenged Farah as they came up for the last lap. Rupp I didn't expect too much from as he didn't have that great of a 5k PR or didn't look too comfortable in the 5k semis. I'm happy for Farah though.
Women's 1500 was slow and boring.
Men's 800 was great. That was so impressive and that's the kind of races I like to see. New world records without rabbits.
The men's marathon was exciting. I'm happy for Meb but disappointed for Ryan Hall. That course was pretty crazy with all the tight turns but had nice scenery.
Both the 4x100s were good. The US men had a new American record and were even until Bolt's anchor leg. It's also exciting to see Jamaica's men get a new world record. The US women looked so good, I'm happy for that too.
The men's 4x400 went as expected I guess. The US just didn't have the star power. I wish they could bring more reserves like Wariner or other people to fill the spots of injured people.
All in all it was a great Olympics to watch and see some great things happen for the US.
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On August 13 2012 04:50 AirbladeOrange wrote:
The 5k was pretty interesting. I'm glad Lomong was so ambitious and challenged Farah as they came up for the last lap. Rupp I didn't expect too much from as he didn't have that great of a 5k PR or didn't look too comfortable in the 5k semis. I'm happy for Farah though.
5k was...mediocre. First 3k was something like 8:42. I mean it's one thing to not sacrifice yourself by making the race a real PR type effort...but running marathon pace for the first 2 miles is silly. That was legitimate jogging for them, and the race was literally a 1500m race. Last mile was 3:57, with I think a 52 high last lap, which really isn't anything special when it's done for a 13:40 time. Everyone was in it at the bell for obvious reasons, and then it fragmented pretty quickly and it was pretty obvious who was going to finish where. The first two miles were dumb, and the last mile never really had any tension in it.
I have no clue why ETH/KEN made it such a slow pace. Farah is the best last lap kicker in the field by far....and they have seen this MANY times now. Moreover, he was tired from the 10k earlier, and admitted himself a fast pace may have cracked them. "Tactical" races are fine, but it's not tactical for the Ethiopians or Kenyans to jog the first 2 miles and turn the race into a last lap sprint against the best kicker in the field.
As always here of late, Farah's tactics are beautiful, always in the right spot, and always in front at the bell...forcing competitors to be that much faster than him on the last lap. He knows when to take control from 800m in to ensure he is always in that correct spot.
Sucks that Lagat got tripped by Koech with about 100m to go...would have been nice to see the man go out well (not to mention another USA medal), but when you let a race stay as slow as that one with everyone bunched...
Rupp I didn't expect too much from as he didn't have that great of a 5k PR
I don't put any stock in this at all. Rupp has contended just fine with most of these guys on the circuit earlier in the year, and clearly refined his kick since his last DL race as evidenced by US Olympic Trials and the Olympic 10,000m silver.
Heck, going by PR's Mo's 5k PR is much weaker than may other guys in the field (Alamirew, Longosiwa, Koech, Gebremeskel) but there is no doubt that at the absolute worst both Mo and Galen are in 12:50/26:40 shape, and probably better than that. Neither have been in a super fast race recently (neither raced in Paris) and just haven't had a chance to lower their PR to better match their fitness. I suspect will see this soon following the games though.
Rupp started to make a move with about 600 to go, but then just didn't have it once the kicking started in earnest with 400m to go as he was clearly still tired from the 10,000 (Galen's last 400m was like 55.xx, he closed 2 seconds faster in the 10,000 and 3+ seconds faster off the faster paced US Trials race [52.63 last lapp of of 13:23]).
Women's 1500 was slow and boring.
Pretty much. First two laps were, like the mens 5,000, really, really slow. It's one thing to lead at PR pace, and another to lead at PR pace + 10-15 seconds. There is no need to go out 40s slower than true race pace for any reason.
I feel so bad for Uceny though. That's gotta be the anti winning the lotto luck. Tripped in both the world championships 1500m final AND the Olymic 1500m final both times in great position to medal...unreal and heartbreaking.
Men's 800 was great. That was so impressive and that's the kind of races I like to see. New world records without rabbits.
Amen. Rudisha is the man.
The men's marathon was exciting. I'm happy for Meb but disappointed for Ryan Hall. That course was pretty crazy with all the tight turns but had nice scenery.
Agree. Meb, while not that fast, is one hell of a great racer. Really a great competitor and a guy that understands how to max out his abilities and run intelligently.
Race itself was indeed very exciting though I have no idea wtf Kipsang was doing. Dropping a 14:11 5k split just 10km into the race?!
Kipsang was clearly the class of the field, not to mention 4/5 record in his marathons and almost certainly would have won had he not employed such a bizarre (in hindsight, bad) strategy.
Super impressive run by Kiprotich though, especially the way he blew by Kirui towards the end!
Both the 4x100s were good. The US men had a new American record and were even until Bolt's anchor leg. It's also exciting to see Jamaica's men get a new world record. The US women looked so good, I'm happy for that too.
Understatement of the century haha! 
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I saw an interview with Mathew Kisorio (german tv) link
He states that usage of epo and steroids is widely spread in Kenya. Not surprising to me but still sad.
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EPT
