EPT
such a promising start. Mental lapses all overOlympic Badminton - Page 13
| Forum Index > London Olympics |
|
SoulSever
Canada779 Posts
such a promising start. Mental lapses all over | ||
|
zylog
Canada943 Posts
On August 01 2012 10:46 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: South Korea was trying to throw just as hard, they didn't want to go up vs. China the first round of playoffs. They really should just reseed/redraw matchups after group play. If you have pre-determined matchups, stuff like this will always happen, as it does in every event from Olympics to WCG already meh. I believe this was the first time they've tried group play in Olympic badminton. I suppose it lets the lesser players get more games and exposure during the games, but you obviously run into the issues we saw today. The old format was simply ro32 single elimination. Much simpler, with fiercer competition. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10483 Posts
 GOGOG CHINAAA | ||
|
amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On August 01 2012 13:20 zylog wrote: I believe this was the first time they've tried group play in Olympic badminton. I suppose it lets the lesser players get more games and exposure during the games, but you obviously run into the issues we saw today. The old format was simply ro32 single elimination. Much simpler, with fiercer competition. but then you wouldn't get to see epic matches like Cordon vs Rajiv singles match, which was best singles match I've seen all tourney so far | ||
|
Maenander
Germany4926 Posts
edit: Taufik Hidayat vs Lin Dan live now the real fun begins | ||
|
zylog
Canada943 Posts
| ||
|
sharkie
Austria18660 Posts
I hope those idiotic match fixers get all banned for life. | ||
|
Maenander
Germany4926 Posts
On August 01 2012 18:08 zylog wrote: Lin Dan looking quite strong against Taufik. The power of the moustache ! Pretty much as expected. | ||
|
Caesarion
Australia8332 Posts
| ||
|
Maenander
Germany4926 Posts
| ||
|
Aim Here
Scotland672 Posts
On August 01 2012 18:18 sharkie wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/19072677 I hope those idiotic match fixers get all banned for life. Totally disagree. If the motive was something out-of-game, like they bet on themselves to lose, or they were making a protest, then fair enough. What appears to have happened here, though was that the badminton teams lost indvidual matches as part of a good faith effort to win the tournament. They were maximising their chance of getting a medal placement, by tactically losing matches so they didn't face better opponents until later in the tournament. You cannot fault an athlete for playing to win, even if the winning move involves losing part of the game! The Starcraft reference is WCG 2008 (I think) where Stork caused endless tiebreakers in a failed attempt to not have to face Hwasin in the first bracket stage match. Nobody here thinks Stork should have been banned for life for that move. It's entirely the fault of the people designing the tournament - they shouldn't choose the bracket opponents until after the last group stage match is played, and then the players don't (usually) have enough information to make the decision to choose whether or not to lose their games, and so they're most likely to have to play to win each individual game, as well as the tournament. Of course, that is unlikely to happen. Instead we'll get players placed in the position of having to lose, but having to pretend to win because of some non-discrete rule where they'll get censured for not appearing to try hard enough. | ||
|
dartoo
India2889 Posts
On August 01 2012 19:03 Aim Here wrote: It's entirely the fault of the people designing the tournament - they shouldn't choose the bracket opponents until after the last group stage match is played, and then the players don't (usually) have enough information to make the decision to choose whether or not to lose their games, and so they're most likely to have to play to win each individual game, as well as the tournament. Of course, that is unlikely to happen. Instead we'll get players placed in the position of having to lose, but having to pretend to win because of some non-discrete rule where they'll get censured for not appearing to try hard enough. This pretty much. I was quite angry while watching the match, but then hey, athletes will do the best they can to win and or help their country men, regardless of how many oaths you take or sporting manners,it falls upon the organizers to formulate a structure that prevents them from resorting second rate tactics to gain an advantage. | ||
|
Boblhead
United States2577 Posts
On August 01 2012 19:03 Aim Here wrote: Totally disagree. If the motive was something out-of-game, like they bet on themselves to lose, or they were making a protest, then fair enough. What appears to have happened here, though was that the badminton teams lost indvidual matches as part of a good faith effort to win the tournament. They were maximising their chance of getting a medal placement, by tactically losing matches so they didn't face better opponents until later in the tournament. You cannot fault an athlete for playing to win, even if the winning move involves losing part of the game! The Starcraft reference is WCG 2008 (I think) where Stork caused endless tiebreakers in a failed attempt to not have to face Hwasin in the first bracket stage match. Nobody here thinks Stork should have been banned for life for that move. It's entirely the fault of the people designing the tournament - they shouldn't choose the bracket opponents until after the last group stage match is played, and then the players don't (usually) have enough information to make the decision to choose whether or not to lose their games, and so they're most likely to have to play to win each individual game, as well as the tournament. Of course, that is unlikely to happen. Instead we'll get players placed in the position of having to lose, but having to pretend to win because of some non-discrete rule where they'll get censured for not appearing to try hard enough. it defeats the whole purpose of competition. By throwing games its not even a competition anymore. I for one disagree with these players by saying just play the fucking game instead of disgracing your country by not giving it 110% every match. | ||
|
sharkie
Austria18660 Posts
On August 01 2012 19:03 Aim Here wrote: Totally disagree. If the motive was something out-of-game, like they bet on themselves to lose, or they were making a protest, then fair enough. What appears to have happened here, though was that the badminton teams lost indvidual matches as part of a good faith effort to win the tournament. They were maximising their chance of getting a medal placement, by tactically losing matches so they didn't face better opponents until later in the tournament. You cannot fault an athlete for playing to win, even if the winning move involves losing part of the game! The Starcraft reference is WCG 2008 (I think) where Stork caused endless tiebreakers in a failed attempt to not have to face Hwasin in the first bracket stage match. Nobody here thinks Stork should have been banned for life for that move. It's entirely the fault of the people designing the tournament - they shouldn't choose the bracket opponents until after the last group stage match is played, and then the players don't (usually) have enough information to make the decision to choose whether or not to lose their games, and so they're most likely to have to play to win each individual game, as well as the tournament. Of course, that is unlikely to happen. Instead we'll get players placed in the position of having to lose, but having to pretend to win because of some non-discrete rule where they'll get censured for not appearing to try hard enough. Oh match fixing is only bad if it concerns money? | ||
|
JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
On August 01 2012 19:03 Aim Here wrote: Totally disagree. If the motive was something out-of-game, like they bet on themselves to lose, or they were making a protest, then fair enough. What appears to have happened here, though was that the badminton teams lost indvidual matches as part of a good faith effort to win the tournament. They were maximising their chance of getting a medal placement, by tactically losing matches so they didn't face better opponents until later in the tournament. You cannot fault an athlete for playing to win, even if the winning move involves losing part of the game! The Starcraft reference is WCG 2008 (I think) where Stork caused endless tiebreakers in a failed attempt to not have to face Hwasin in the first bracket stage match. Nobody here thinks Stork should have been banned for life for that move. It's entirely the fault of the people designing the tournament - they shouldn't choose the bracket opponents until after the last group stage match is played, and then the players don't (usually) have enough information to make the decision to choose whether or not to lose their games, and so they're most likely to have to play to win each individual game, as well as the tournament. Of course, that is unlikely to happen. Instead we'll get players placed in the position of having to lose, but having to pretend to win because of some non-discrete rule where they'll get censured for not appearing to try hard enough. It doesn't matter what their motive was. not using your full effort is in violation of player conduct 4.4.5 which they were charged with. Anyone participating in a BWF sanctioned tournament (eg: Olympics) must consent to these rules. The exact disciplinary action varies from case to case but I expect something along the lines of a fine. A suspension seems unlikely. Ultimately, an oversight in the tournament format (of which the governing body of badminton from China, Korea were all part of designing ironically) is not a legitimate excuse to break rules otherwise it defeats the purpose of having them in the first place. | ||
|
Aim Here
Scotland672 Posts
On August 01 2012 19:21 Boblhead wrote: it defeats the whole purpose of competition. By throwing games its not even a competition anymore. I for one disagree with these players by saying just play the fucking game instead of disgracing your country by not giving it 110% every match. Then they wouldn't be giving the tournament 100%, because winning the single badminton game was making their chances of winning the tournament worse. The athletes were in a double-bind here, they had to choose whether to do what they had to do to win the tournament or to win the match. They couldn't do both at the same time. It was an unfair position for them to be in. The tournament organisers shouldn't have put them in that position in the first place. | ||
|
Aim Here
Scotland672 Posts
On August 01 2012 19:26 sharkie wrote: Oh match fixing is only bad if it concerns money? Read what I wrote. If the motivation isn't winning, it's match fixing. It's not match fixing, if the athletes are actually trying to win the tournament they're playing in. That's competition. | ||
|
windzor
Denmark1013 Posts
On August 01 2012 19:03 Aim Here wrote: Totally disagree. If the motive was something out-of-game, like they bet on themselves to lose, or they were making a protest, then fair enough. What appears to have happened here, though was that the badminton teams lost indvidual matches as part of a good faith effort to win the tournament. They were maximising their chance of getting a medal placement, by tactically losing matches so they didn't face better opponents until later in the tournament. You cannot fault an athlete for playing to win, even if the winning move involves losing part of the game! The Starcraft reference is WCG 2008 (I think) where Stork caused endless tiebreakers in a failed attempt to not have to face Hwasin in the first bracket stage match. Nobody here thinks Stork should have been banned for life for that move. It's entirely the fault of the people designing the tournament - they shouldn't choose the bracket opponents until after the last group stage match is played, and then the players don't (usually) have enough information to make the decision to choose whether or not to lose their games, and so they're most likely to have to play to win each individual game, as well as the tournament. Of course, that is unlikely to happen. Instead we'll get players placed in the position of having to lose, but having to pretend to win because of some non-discrete rule where they'll get censured for not appearing to try hard enough. Yes because the no1 seed should throw matches to meet their countrymen who is no2 seed in the finals instead of in the semis... That's totally okay... But in the end it's the organizers fault as much as the players. Not playing matches which have direct effect on seeding at the same time is a rookie mistake and should not happen in sports where it is possible to throw like this. | ||
|
zerger420
30 Posts
On August 01 2012 18:18 sharkie wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/19072677 I hope those idiotic match fixers get all banned for life. Didn't know Naniwa played women's badminton. | ||
|
zylog
Canada943 Posts
What was bad (but hilarious) was how terribly they went about throwing the match. It's like one team doing a Naniwa probe rush only to find that your opponent was doing the same. To be fair though, this type of thing happens all the time in sports. In the NHL and NBA, bottom dwelling teams will tank to improve their chances at winning the draft lottery, while teams that have secured their playoff positions will rest their superstars towards the end of the regular season. The advantage that team sports have is they can sub in their inexperienced players for easy losses, while in badminton it's a bit sillier to see the world number 1 pair miss half a dozen short serves in a row just from having a "bad day". | ||
| ||
