The Offical Badminton Thread is here for London 2012! I will keep this thread updated for all of the Badminton Events during the Olympics. Grab some popcorn and your empty Shuttle racks because this Olympics will be the best one yet!
Cai Yun / Fu Haifeng Fang Chieh Min / Lee Sheng Mu Ross Smith / Glenn Warfe Ingo Kindervater / Johannes Schoettler Ko Sung Hyun / Yoo Yeong Seong Bodin Issara / Maneepong Jongjit Adam Cwalina / Michal Logosz Mohammad Ahsan / Bona Septano Mathias Boe / Carsten Mogensen Chai Biao / Guo Zhendong Dorian Lance James / Willem Viljoen Vladimir Ivanov / Ivan Sozonov Chung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae Howard Bach / Tony Gunawan Naoki Kawamae / Shoji Sato Koo Kien Keat / Tan Boon Heong
MASSIVE SCANDAL GOING ON IN WOMEN'S DOUBLE OVER BRACKET FIXING! NEWS!
Badminton Pick'em Pool
For this Olympics, I will introduce a Badminton Pick'em Pool for all events. The events are listed as below, and pick your choices for the top 3 finishes for each Event in the comments
Mens Singles: Mens Doubles: Womens Singles: Womens Doubles: Mixed Doubles: Country by Gold medals: Country by total medals:
Please be advised that all picks must be recorded before the Opening Ceremony in the comments, and that there are no limit on the amount of players you pick from a country. You can say have all players be from China and China taking it all.
To Enter: 1. Copy and paste the events list into your own post. 2. fill in your choices by player name. For doubles, Use last name for each player only
The winner will get $20 from me through paypal . Scoring is simply based on a point system; 3 points for first place, 2 points for second place, 1 point for third place. Also, note that in the case of tie, a streamed bo5 Starcraft: Brood War event will take place to determine winner, games being played on Iccup.
Mens Singles: Gold: Lin Dan -- Silver: LCW -- Bronze: Chen Long Mens Doubles: Gold: Dae / Sung -- Silver: Biao / Zhendong -- Bronze: Fu / Cai Womens Singles: Gold: Wang Yihan -- Silver: Tine Baun -- Bronze: Wang Xin Womens Doubles: Gold: Yunlei / Qing -- Silver: Xiaoli / Yang -- Bronze: Eun / Jung Mixed Doubles: Gold: Nan / Yunlei -- Silver: Chen / Jin -- Bronze: Ahmad / Natsir Country by Gold medals: China will take most medals, followed by Korea, then Malaysia "Country by total medals: 1. China 2. Korea 3. Denmark
Mens Singles: 1) Lin Dan 2) Lee Chong Wei 3) Taufik Hidayat Mens Doubles: 1) Chung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae 2) Cai Yun / Fu Haifeng 3) Biao/Zhendong Womens Singles: 1) Wang Yihan 2) Wang Xin 3) Li Xuerui Womens Doubles: 1) Wang Xiaoli / Yu Yang 2) Ha Jung Eun / Kim Min Jung 3)Tian Qing / Zhao Yunlei Mixed Doubles: 1) Zhang/Zhao 2) Xu/Ma 3) Ahmad/Natsir
Country by Gold medals: 1) China 2) Korea 3) Malaysia Country by total medals: 1) China 2) Korea 3) Indonesia
Mens Singles: 1) Lee Chong Wei, 2) Lin Dan, 3) Chen Long Mens Doubles: 1) Cai/Fu, 2) Jung/Lee, 3) Boe/Mogensen Womens Singles: 1) Wang Yihan, 2) Li Xuerui, 3) Wang Xin Womens Doubles: 1) Wang/Yu, 2) Tian/Zhao, 3) Ha/Kim Mixed Doubles: 1) Xu/Ma, 2) Zhang/Zhao, 3) Ahmad/Natsir Country by Gold medals: 1) China, 2) Korea, 3) Malaysia Country by total medals: 1) China, 2) Korea, 3) Denmark
Mens Singles: 1) Lin Dan, 2) Lee Chong Wei, 3) Taufik Hidayat Mens Doubles: 1)Jung/Lee, 2)Cai/Fu , 3) Boe/Morg Womens Singles: 1) Li Xuerui, 2) Wang Yihan, 3) Wang Shixian Womens Doubles: 1) Wang/Yu, 2) Tian/Zhao, 3) Ha/Kim Mixed Doubles: 1) Xu/Ma, 2) Zhang/Zhao, 3) Ahmad/Natsir
Country by Gold medals: 1) China, 2) Korea, 3) Malaysia (although I dont think golds are going outside China and Korea) Country by Medals : 1) China, 2) Korea 3) Malaysia
They should do what they used to do for hockey games.
Where they digitally traced the path of the puck when it moved at high speed so people just getting into the sport can see whats going on. That was amazing.
On July 20 2012 11:44 Medrea wrote: And AFAIK drugs are simply not a part of it since they don't give a serious advantage.
I believe that the `99 world champion in men's doubles Sigit from Indonesia was banned for several years from competition after getting caught using performance enhancing drugs. I'm not sure why you don't think drugs would not give a serious advantage. First of all, there is improved strength and explosiveness which is quite desirable for any athlete. Furthermore, the improvement in recovery ability would allow a drugged athlete to train far more frequently, which would have an impact on technical skill too.
On July 20 2012 12:15 Medrea wrote: They should do what they used to do for hockey games.
Where they digitally traced the path of the puck when it moved at high speed so people just getting into the sport can see whats going on. That was amazing.
I remember that feature not being so popular here in Canada back when FOX did it years ago. More practically, I think it would be hard to replace part of the weight of a badminton shuttle with the tracking device without affecting its weight distribution and movement.
DENMARK FIGHTING! Predicting us to go to at least the semis in mix but gold is a definite possibility. Got a feeling China/LCW is going to sweep the rest, but I'm looking forward to the Lin Dan/LCW matchup which HAS to happen like I'm looking forward to the OSL finals - aka like a little child!
With regards to the low amount of doping going on: There isn't really a lot of money involved in Badminton. Furthermore actual strength is such a little part of badminton compared to technique which is also what makes it such a great sport.
Really looking forward to the olympics Singles are usually not that intense on TV but doubles sure are! Probably the only olympic discipline i will watch (maybe field hockey but thats basically it).
On July 20 2012 19:46 Ghostcom wrote: DENMARK FIGHTING! Predicting us to go to at least the semis in mix but gold is a definite possibility. Got a feeling China/LCW is going to sweep the rest, but I'm looking forward to the Lin Dan/LCW matchup which HAS to happen like I'm looking forward to the OSL finals - aka like a little child!
With regards to the low amount of doping going on: There isn't really a lot of money involved in Badminton. Furthermore actual strength is such a little part of badminton compared to technique which is also what makes it such a great sport.
This is probably the last Olympic for Super Dan, and a Super Dan / LCW finals would be the most epic finals of all time. I would be jizzing everywhere during that
On July 20 2012 22:24 DreamChaser wrote: Oh wow i had no idea Badmiton was an olympic sport sweet
Better grab your shuttle racks then!
What is a shuttle rack? Edit: wait... short for racket/raquet right lol? man... i started thinking rack was some sort of american euphemism for cock lol.
On July 20 2012 22:24 DreamChaser wrote: Oh wow i had no idea Badmiton was an olympic sport sweet
Better grab your shuttle racks then!
What is a shuttle rack? Edit: wait... short for racket/raquet right lol? man... i started thinking rack was some sort of american euphemism for cock lol.
You know how you buy birdies in those tubes? we call it shuttle racks over here at my club and you can use it as those clappers that the asians always have at badminton events. They are really loud if you hit together correctly
Yeah, now that´s what i call a nice thread! Thanks man, i usually miss these as it´s not really getting televised in Germany. Was even planing on driving too London because i have a friend there i could stay with, but it just seems impossible to get tickets...
Edit:
On July 21 2012 00:39 Micket wrote: Lin Dan is gonna win so easily lol. China also gonna win all the other golds as usual, they have done so for the last 2 world championships.
Well, not really, Taufik won 04 and China hasn´t won a men´s double gold in like 20 years or something.
On July 21 2012 00:45 Samba wrote: Yeah, now that´s what i call a nice thread! Thanks man, i usually miss these as it´s not really getting televised in Germany. Was even planing on driving too London because i have a friend there i could stay with, but it just seems impossible to get tickets...
No problem dude. Let me get the players listed in the OP (thats going to take me awhile) and start making your predictions ^_^. You can click on the Offical Link for the players.
On July 21 2012 00:45 Samba wrote: Yeah, now that´s what i call a nice thread! Thanks man, i usually miss these as it´s not really getting televised in Germany. Was even planing on driving too London because i have a friend there i could stay with, but it just seems impossible to get tickets...
On July 21 2012 00:39 Micket wrote: Lin Dan is gonna win so easily lol. China also gonna win all the other golds as usual, they have done so for the last 2 world championships.
Well, not really, Taufik won 04 and China hasn´t won a men´s double gold in like 20 years or something.
On July 21 2012 00:45 Samba wrote: Yeah, now that´s what i call a nice thread! Thanks man, i usually miss these as it´s not really getting televised in Germany. Was even planing on driving too London because i have a friend there i could stay with, but it just seems impossible to get tickets...
No problem dude. Let me get the players listed in the OP (thats going to take me awhile) and start making your predictions ^_^. You can click on the Offical Link for the players.
Sure, i will. But it´s been awhile since i followed the scene closely. Got an injury in 09 and it took almost 2 years before i could finally start training again...never got as good again as i used to be...guess age and work didn´t help either.
On July 21 2012 00:45 Samba wrote: Yeah, now that´s what i call a nice thread! Thanks man, i usually miss these as it´s not really getting televised in Germany. Was even planing on driving too London because i have a friend there i could stay with, but it just seems impossible to get tickets...
Edit:
On July 21 2012 00:39 Micket wrote: Lin Dan is gonna win so easily lol. China also gonna win all the other golds as usual, they have done so for the last 2 world championships.
Well, not really, Taufik won 04 and China hasn´t won a men´s double gold in like 20 years or something.
For worlds? China won 08 Bejing Olympics in Mens double 2-1
Huh, didn´t Indonesia win the double in 08?! Am i really remembering it wrong?!
On July 21 2012 00:45 Samba wrote: Yeah, now that´s what i call a nice thread! Thanks man, i usually miss these as it´s not really getting televised in Germany. Was even planing on driving too London because i have a friend there i could stay with, but it just seems impossible to get tickets...
Edit:
On July 21 2012 00:39 Micket wrote: Lin Dan is gonna win so easily lol. China also gonna win all the other golds as usual, they have done so for the last 2 world championships.
Well, not really, Taufik won 04 and China hasn´t won a men´s double gold in like 20 years or something.
For worlds? China won 08 Bejing Olympics in Mens double 2-1
Huh, didn´t Indonesia win the double in 08?! Am i really remembering it wrong?!
Lol its not like I'm giving him flak, its just that every single time he is faced with pressure aka Lin Dan he seems to lose more often than not. Has not prevented me from watching every single finals he has played in though.
I feel like many Malaysians heap on the pressure on chong wei as there seems to be little progress in training a successor for him.
On July 21 2012 00:45 Samba wrote: Yeah, now that´s what i call a nice thread! Thanks man, i usually miss these as it´s not really getting televised in Germany. Was even planing on driving too London because i have a friend there i could stay with, but it just seems impossible to get tickets...
Edit:
On July 21 2012 00:39 Micket wrote: Lin Dan is gonna win so easily lol. China also gonna win all the other golds as usual, they have done so for the last 2 world championships.
Well, not really, Taufik won 04 and China hasn´t won a men´s double gold in like 20 years or something.
For worlds? China won 08 Bejing Olympics in Mens double 2-1
Huh, didn´t Indonesia win the double in 08?! Am i really remembering it wrong?!
Men's Singles Participants List Updated!! Please check it to let me know of any errors and don't forget to enter in your Pick'em list before the Opening Ceremony!
Its so hard to watch Badminton on TV here(mainly because noone in the netherlands can play it except for Audina at some point.) exciting to see though, its so fast paced.
On July 21 2012 04:31 Kipsate wrote: Its so hard to watch Badminton on TV here(mainly because noone in the netherlands can play it except for Audina at some point.) exciting to see though, its so fast paced.
I found a stream that will go active when the event starts. It's listed in OP
Guys guys ! I just don't get it why you say you only get to watch badminton once every 4 year.
There is a great BWF badminton channel on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/user/bwf) where you can see most SuperSeries live events as well as the World Championships.
Oh and by the way I'll be in London to see some badminton action during the olympics, so I'll try to upload a few pics :D
On July 20 2012 22:24 DreamChaser wrote: Oh wow i had no idea Badmiton was an olympic sport sweet
Better grab your shuttle racks then!
What is a shuttle rack? Edit: wait... short for racket/raquet right lol? man... i started thinking rack was some sort of american euphemism for cock lol.
You know how you buy birdies in those tubes? we call it shuttle racks over here at my club and you can use it as those clappers that the asians always have at badminton events. They are really loud if you hit together correctly
You have a club? I wish I could find a badminton club around me but I'm pretty sure there is nothing.
On July 20 2012 22:24 DreamChaser wrote: Oh wow i had no idea Badmiton was an olympic sport sweet
Better grab your shuttle racks then!
What is a shuttle rack? Edit: wait... short for racket/raquet right lol? man... i started thinking rack was some sort of american euphemism for cock lol.
You know how you buy birdies in those tubes? we call it shuttle racks over here at my club and you can use it as those clappers that the asians always have at badminton events. They are really loud if you hit together correctly
You have a club? I wish I could find a badminton club around me but I'm pretty sure there is nothing.
If you live around chicago, then Midwest Badminton Club is my home base until I go to college this fall
On July 20 2012 22:24 DreamChaser wrote: Oh wow i had no idea Badmiton was an olympic sport sweet
Better grab your shuttle racks then!
What is a shuttle rack? Edit: wait... short for racket/raquet right lol? man... i started thinking rack was some sort of american euphemism for cock lol.
You know how you buy birdies in those tubes? we call it shuttle racks over here at my club and you can use it as those clappers that the asians always have at badminton events. They are really loud if you hit together correctly
You have a club? I wish I could find a badminton club around me but I'm pretty sure there is nothing.
If you live around chicago, then Midwest Badminton Club is my home base until I go to college this fall
I can't find one within like 4-5 hours of me. And I don't think I can get into a college club but I might try.
On July 20 2012 19:46 Ghostcom wrote: With regards to the low amount of doping going on: There isn't really a lot of money involved in Badminton. Furthermore actual strength is such a little part of badminton compared to technique which is also what makes it such a great sport.
Technique is important and all, but Singles offer quite a considerable physical challenge. I don't think Badminton really differs much from Tennis or Football in how much the physical part of the game matters.
On July 20 2012 19:46 Ghostcom wrote: With regards to the low amount of doping going on: There isn't really a lot of money involved in Badminton. Furthermore actual strength is such a little part of badminton compared to technique which is also what makes it such a great sport.
Technique is important and all, but Singles offer quite a considerable physical challenge. I don't think Badminton really differs much from Tennis or Football in how much the physical part of the game matters.
Note how I spoke about actual strength and not physical challenge. In badminton you run twice the distance a tennisplayer does, in half the time, so obviously you are correct in saying that badminton is quite the physical challenge - my point was that actual strength, i.e. being able to bench a lot or doping via anabolic steroids are pretty useless and in fact detrimental for a badmintonplayer due to the useless extra weight.
EDIT: Data for the Tennis vs Badminton. The figures are old (1985) but I haven't been able to find any more recent:
thank you for all the effort that went into this thread~
badminton is pretty special to me! i used to receive private coaching in canada and went to coach a bit myself. i always loved the allure for the technique involved & the constant need for that level of technique.
but it was always hard for me to find the streams to watch!
i did not respect the sport or the other players nearly enough by going to competition in jeans. now i really hope to see the sport as a spectator instead!
Played badminton since I was 6 up till when I was 22 on a pretty high level. Had to quit because my ankles were mush :s I miss playing it so much tho. Theres nothing more exciting to watch then a good badmintonmatch!
On July 20 2012 19:46 Ghostcom wrote: With regards to the low amount of doping going on: There isn't really a lot of money involved in Badminton. Furthermore actual strength is such a little part of badminton compared to technique which is also what makes it such a great sport.
Technique is important and all, but Singles offer quite a considerable physical challenge. I don't think Badminton really differs much from Tennis or Football in how much the physical part of the game matters.
Note how I spoke about actual strength and not physical challenge. In badminton you run twice the distance a tennisplayer does, in half the time, so obviously you are correct in saying that badminton is quite the physical challenge - my point was that actual strength, i.e. being able to bench a lot or doping via anabolic steroids are pretty useless and in fact detrimental for a badmintonplayer due to the useless extra weight.
EDIT: Data for the Tennis vs Badminton. The figures are old (1985) but I haven't been able to find any more recent:
There is more to drugs than simply strength gain. The greatest benefit comes from a reduced period between bouts of exercise. Looking at bodybuilders, juiced bodybuilders can train with 3-5 times more volume than an equivalent natural one. Now consider a badminton player that can train more frequently and develop physical conditioning more quickly - such a player should have more practiced technique and better fitness.
As for some data, consider looking at the work of Bo Omosegaard. He has written about the transition from primarily aerobic + technical training that was predominant in the 1970-1980s to the incorporation of strength/power training in the 1990s . He worked with the Danish badminton team, in particular Poul-Erik Hoyer Larsen who won the gold medal in 1996.
On July 20 2012 19:46 Ghostcom wrote: With regards to the low amount of doping going on: There isn't really a lot of money involved in Badminton. Furthermore actual strength is such a little part of badminton compared to technique which is also what makes it such a great sport.
Technique is important and all, but Singles offer quite a considerable physical challenge. I don't think Badminton really differs much from Tennis or Football in how much the physical part of the game matters.
Note how I spoke about actual strength and not physical challenge. In badminton you run twice the distance a tennisplayer does, in half the time, so obviously you are correct in saying that badminton is quite the physical challenge - my point was that actual strength, i.e. being able to bench a lot or doping via anabolic steroids are pretty useless and in fact detrimental for a badmintonplayer due to the useless extra weight.
EDIT: Data for the Tennis vs Badminton. The figures are old (1985) but I haven't been able to find any more recent:
There is more to drugs than simply strength gain. The greatest benefit comes from a reduced period between bouts of exercise. Looking at bodybuilders, juiced bodybuilders can train with 3-5 times more volume than an equivalent natural one. Now consider a badminton player that can train more frequently and develop physical conditioning more quickly - such a player should have more practiced technique and better fitness.
As for some data, consider looking at the work of Bo Omosegaard. He has written about the transition from primarily aerobic + technical training that was predominant in the 1970-1980s to the incorporation of strength/power training in the 1990s . He worked with the Danish badminton team, in particular Poul-Erik Hoyer Larsen who won the gold medal in 1996.
It is correct that a better restitution is going to help, BUT your analogy to bodybuilders is flawed. Bodybuilding is about building up bigger muscles which means the training regimen itself requires a restitution period in which the body can rebuild. Badmintontraining doesn't do this is nearly the same way, because the goal isn't to become big, but rather fast, agile and precise. The restitutionperiod is therefore already pretty damn short and whilst I've no doubt you probably could shorten it with drugs, the question is if it is actually going to help all that much, i.e. could you maintain focus for the extra time you would be given?
If you really want to talk about PED-useage you should much rather bring up bronchodilaters and how most of the top-athletes in (any sport really) badminton all seem to be asthmatic.
EDIT: Actually I don't really know why we are having this discussion? Doping is rather close to a non-issue in badminton. The last person I remember getting caught was Zhou Mi (sp?) from Hong Kong in 2010 and then there was Sigit, but that is actually everyone I can recall. Furthermore, I know that the danish athletes are all tested on something close to a monthly basis - and seeing how they are able to compete at the top level it only really leaves 2 options: Either the cheaters are terrible at doping OR the field is actually clean.
On July 23 2012 19:38 Ghostcom wrote: Note how I spoke about actual strength and not physical challenge. In badminton you run twice the distance a tennisplayer does, in half the time, so obviously you are correct in saying that badminton is quite the physical challenge - my point was that actual strength, i.e. being able to bench a lot or doping via anabolic steroids are pretty useless and in fact detrimental for a badmintonplayer due to the useless extra weight.
EDIT: Data for the Tennis vs Badminton. The figures are old (1985) but I haven't been able to find any more recent:
Not true for doubles. Look at the top two men's doubles team in the world - Cai/Fu and Lee/Jung. They are extremely muscular and bulked up because they have to smash hard.
I doubt that they would be the top two doubles team in the world if they were half as bulked as they are now.
On July 23 2012 19:38 Ghostcom wrote: Note how I spoke about actual strength and not physical challenge. In badminton you run twice the distance a tennisplayer does, in half the time, so obviously you are correct in saying that badminton is quite the physical challenge - my point was that actual strength, i.e. being able to bench a lot or doping via anabolic steroids are pretty useless and in fact detrimental for a badmintonplayer due to the useless extra weight.
EDIT: Data for the Tennis vs Badminton. The figures are old (1985) but I haven't been able to find any more recent:
Not true for doubles. Look at the top two men's doubles team in the world - Cai/Fu and Lee/Jung. They are extremely muscular and bulked up because they have to smash hard.
I doubt that they would be the top two doubles team in the world if they were half as bulked as they are now.
Seriously, quote the context. That was a response to a guy talking about singles.
EDIT: Besides, are you really arguing that Cai/Fu would be where they are if their technique wasn't as good as it is? I'm sorry, but even for doubles, technique and rotation are more important than raw strength, because raw strength won't do you any good without the technique.
I'll add the Women's singles participants later today. Does anyone have a list of doubles and mixed doubles teams? I don't want to have to look up teams T_T.....
On July 23 2012 23:26 amazingxkcd wrote: I'll add the Women's singles participants later today. Does anyone have a list of doubles and mixed doubles teams? I don't want to have to look up teams T_T.....
On July 23 2012 23:26 amazingxkcd wrote: I'll add the Women's singles participants later today. Does anyone have a list of doubles and mixed doubles teams? I don't want to have to look up teams T_T.....
On July 23 2012 23:26 amazingxkcd wrote: I'll add the Women's singles participants later today. Does anyone have a list of doubles and mixed doubles teams? I don't want to have to look up teams T_T.....
Judging by seeds, I'm worried the Chinese Team's collusion will play into this tournament. The semi-finals can easily shake out to be Lee Chong Wei vs Chen Jin and Lin Dan vs. Chen Long, where Chen Long concedes to Lin Dan, giving him a big advantage going into the finals.
On July 23 2012 19:38 Ghostcom wrote: Note how I spoke about actual strength and not physical challenge. In badminton you run twice the distance a tennisplayer does, in half the time, so obviously you are correct in saying that badminton is quite the physical challenge - my point was that actual strength, i.e. being able to bench a lot or doping via anabolic steroids are pretty useless and in fact detrimental for a badmintonplayer due to the useless extra weight.
EDIT: Data for the Tennis vs Badminton. The figures are old (1985) but I haven't been able to find any more recent:
Not true for doubles. Look at the top two men's doubles team in the world - Cai/Fu and Lee/Jung. They are extremely muscular and bulked up because they have to smash hard.
I doubt that they would be the top two doubles team in the world if they were half as bulked as they are now.
Look at Koo KK and Tan BH, neither are that bulky but have amazing smashes (TBH has fastest unofficial @ 405km/hr :o)
On July 24 2012 10:42 Antipathy wrote: Judging by seeds, I'm worried the Chinese Team's collusion will play into this tournament. The semi-finals can easily shake out to be Lee Chong Wei vs Chen Jin and Lin Dan vs. Chen Long, where Chen Long concedes to Lin Dan, giving him a big advantage going into the finals.
Are they really going to concede whole matches at the Olympic Games ? I know the Chinese players often do it in Superseries tournament - I find it unacceptable - but really, the Olympics ?
On July 24 2012 10:42 Antipathy wrote: Judging by seeds, I'm worried the Chinese Team's collusion will play into this tournament. The semi-finals can easily shake out to be Lee Chong Wei vs Chen Jin and Lin Dan vs. Chen Long, where Chen Long concedes to Lin Dan, giving him a big advantage going into the finals.
Are they really going to concede whole matches at the Olympic Games ? I know the Chinese players often do it in Superseries tournament - I find it unacceptable - but really, the Olympics ?
They did it in the Super Series (and it was mostly Lin Dan conceding to the others) in an attempt to claim #1, #2 and #3 on the worldrankings allowing them to bring an extra mens single to the olympics. I think in a semis at the Olympics they would duke it out.
EDIT: It might not have been 1,2,3 but just 3 in top5, can't remember the exact rules...
I've never played badminton except recreationally in the backyard with the family. Watching the pros makes it look like such an amazing sport though. Would love to give it a try sometime.
This thread needs more cool badminton videos! I am PUMPED for this Olympics, will try to get the whole family watching - especially the MS and MD finals.
On July 25 2012 13:43 SgtCoDFish wrote: I never watch badminton except at the Olympics... I absolutely cannot wait for it to start, I'll be following really closely. :D
Tournaments are aired frequently on the star network in East Asia. Pretty sure you can find streams for it quite easily. From what I remember when I lived in the region the commentating is pretty top notch. But again thats only if you have the time to follow the scene.
On July 25 2012 23:23 Ghostcom wrote: Sorry, but no one does trick shots like Peter Gade:
On July 26 2012 01:19 Xiron wrote: Wow I always imagined professional badminton to be like tabletennis. Whoever hits the hardest wins. But I was wrong. Thanks for the vids!
If you are aiming to hit as hard as you can, then your stroke suffers and your shots will suck. This game is a lot more about technique than stroke power.
On July 26 2012 01:19 Xiron wrote: Wow I always imagined professional badminton to be like tabletennis. Whoever hits the hardest wins. But I was wrong. Thanks for the vids!
If you are aiming to hit as hard as you can, then your stroke suffers and your shots will suck. This game is a lot more about technique than stroke power.
That's why these guys are no muscle packed beasts :p I've got a question: Are the players able to play with both hands? I think it would certainly be handy to be able to switch hands.
On July 26 2012 01:19 Xiron wrote: Wow I always imagined professional badminton to be like tabletennis. Whoever hits the hardest wins. But I was wrong. Thanks for the vids!
If you are aiming to hit as hard as you can, then your stroke suffers and your shots will suck. This game is a lot more about technique than stroke power.
That's why these guys are no muscle packed beasts :p I've got a question: Are the players able to play with both hands? I think it would certainly be handy to be able to switch hands.
Not really.. if your taking the time to switch hands you wont be able to take alot of shots early. And most are capable with the backhand anyway. Basic technique is to get to the shuttle as early possible and if you teach that as a fundemental switching hands becomes alot less viable so no one would end up doing it. Despite perhaps some limited situation benefits overall it doesnt really help much.
That doesnt mean these guys arent strong either. Muscle packed beasts maybe not but they are fit as hell and its a very draining sport. Thats why its not designed to run very long.
On July 26 2012 01:19 Xiron wrote: Wow I always imagined professional badminton to be like tabletennis. Whoever hits the hardest wins. But I was wrong. Thanks for the vids!
If you are aiming to hit as hard as you can, then your stroke suffers and your shots will suck. This game is a lot more about technique than stroke power.
That's why these guys are no muscle packed beasts :p I've got a question: Are the players able to play with both hands? I think it would certainly be handy to be able to switch hands.
Not really.. if your taking the time to switch hands you wont be able to take alot of shots early. And most are capable with the backhand anyway. Basic technique is to get to the shuttle as early possible and if you teach that as a fundemental switching hands becomes alot less viable so no one would end up doing it. Despite perhaps some limited situation benefits overall it doesnt really help much.
That doesnt mean these guys arent strong either. Muscle packed beasts maybe not but they are fit as hell and its a very draining sport. Thats why its not designed to run very long.
AFAIK I recall that an average singles player will have travelled 3 to 4 miles per match in a professional singles game. Though the doubles teams are normally bigger than the singles players
On July 26 2012 01:19 Xiron wrote: Wow I always imagined professional badminton to be like tabletennis. Whoever hits the hardest wins. But I was wrong. Thanks for the vids!
If you are aiming to hit as hard as you can, then your stroke suffers and your shots will suck. This game is a lot more about technique than stroke power.
That's why these guys are no muscle packed beasts :p I've got a question: Are the players able to play with both hands? I think it would certainly be handy to be able to switch hands.
Not really.. if your taking the time to switch hands you wont be able to take alot of shots early. And most are capable with the backhand anyway. Basic technique is to get to the shuttle as early possible and if you teach that as a fundemental switching hands becomes alot less viable so no one would end up doing it. Despite perhaps some limited situation benefits overall it doesnt really help much.
That doesnt mean these guys arent strong either. Muscle packed beasts maybe not but they are fit as hell and its a very draining sport. Thats why its not designed to run very long.
AFAIK I recall that an average singles player will have travelled 3 to 4 miles per match in a professional singles game. Though the doubles teams are normally bigger than the singles players
On July 25 2012 13:43 SgtCoDFish wrote: I never watch badminton except at the Olympics... I absolutely cannot wait for it to start, I'll be following really closely. :D
Tournaments are aired frequently on the star network in East Asia. Pretty sure you can find streams for it quite easily. From what I remember when I lived in the region the commentating is pretty top notch. But again thats only if you have the time to follow the scene.
And that was a gamewinning point. Manner CC got NOTHING on Gade.
Cept hes pretty much washed up.. obvious favourites Dan, Chen (jin), Hidayat.
Peter Gade has like 10 years on everyone else in the field, yet still frequently gets to the quaters/semis despite his recent injuries. If you call that washed up I wish I was washed up... Sure he isn't #1 in the world as he used to be, but on a good day he'll beat anyone except for an inform LCW/Lin Dan.
Furthermore, Taufik isn't a favorite over LCW, even despite LCW recent injury. Taufik is a lazy bastard who is wasting his talent. He just might be the most talented guy I have ever seen pick up a racket (in his young years you could really see him wondering whenever he got the ball high at the net which of his 587292 brilliant shots he should make and then he would botch it) but he is such a mood-player and he gives up waaaaaaay too soon.
On July 21 2012 00:45 Samba wrote: Yeah, now that´s what i call a nice thread! Thanks man, i usually miss these as it´s not really getting televised in Germany. Was even planing on driving too London because i have a friend there i could stay with, but it just seems impossible to get tickets...
On July 21 2012 00:39 Micket wrote: Lin Dan is gonna win so easily lol. China also gonna win all the other golds as usual, they have done so for the last 2 world championships.
Well, not really, Taufik won 04 and China hasn´t won a men´s double gold in like 20 years or something.
LinDan will be the one with the highest chance to win the gold medal. As a Vietnamese "Tien Minh Nguyen" will be the one that I support. Hope he at least get out of the group stage unlike last time in Beijing -_-.
On July 25 2012 13:43 SgtCoDFish wrote: I never watch badminton except at the Olympics... I absolutely cannot wait for it to start, I'll be following really closely. :D
Tournaments are aired frequently on the star network in East Asia. Pretty sure you can find streams for it quite easily. From what I remember when I lived in the region the commentating is pretty top notch. But again thats only if you have the time to follow the scene.
On July 25 2012 23:23 Ghostcom wrote: Sorry, but no one does trick shots like Peter Gade:
And that was a gamewinning point. Manner CC got NOTHING on Gade.
Cept hes pretty much washed up.. obvious favourites Dan, Chen (jin), Hidayat.
Peter Gade has like 10 years on everyone else in the field, yet still frequently gets to the quaters/semis despite his recent injuries. If you call that washed up I wish I was washed up... Sure he isn't #1 in the world as he used to be, but on a good day he'll beat anyone except for an inform LCW/Lin Dan.
Furthermore, Taufik isn't a favorite over LCW, even despite LCW recent injury. Taufik is a lazy bastard who is wasting his talent. He just might be the most talented guy I have ever seen pick up a racket (in his young years you could really see him wondering whenever he got the ball high at the net which of his 587292 brilliant shots he should make and then he would botch it) but he is such a mood-player and he gives up waaaaaaay too soon.
Mostly because the pool isnt particularly deep. So yes hes washed up, no one cares how consistent you are if you arent winning like you used to. Sorry if that tickles your patriotic nerves but that's just how it is.
As for Taufik its precisely because hes so momentum based that I'd give him a pretty good chance. Just because hes bad at playing a particular opponent doesnt mean LCW is a bigger favourite imo. I can see him going into any tournament and say .. yeah this guy could win. Never gotten that vibe from LCW.. ever.
On July 25 2012 13:43 SgtCoDFish wrote: I never watch badminton except at the Olympics... I absolutely cannot wait for it to start, I'll be following really closely. :D
Tournaments are aired frequently on the star network in East Asia. Pretty sure you can find streams for it quite easily. From what I remember when I lived in the region the commentating is pretty top notch. But again thats only if you have the time to follow the scene.
On July 25 2012 23:23 Ghostcom wrote: Sorry, but no one does trick shots like Peter Gade:
And that was a gamewinning point. Manner CC got NOTHING on Gade.
Cept hes pretty much washed up.. obvious favourites Dan, Chen (jin), Hidayat.
Peter Gade has like 10 years on everyone else in the field, yet still frequently gets to the quaters/semis despite his recent injuries. If you call that washed up I wish I was washed up... Sure he isn't #1 in the world as he used to be, but on a good day he'll beat anyone except for an inform LCW/Lin Dan.
Furthermore, Taufik isn't a favorite over LCW, even despite LCW recent injury. Taufik is a lazy bastard who is wasting his talent. He just might be the most talented guy I have ever seen pick up a racket (in his young years you could really see him wondering whenever he got the ball high at the net which of his 587292 brilliant shots he should make and then he would botch it) but he is such a mood-player and he gives up waaaaaaay too soon.
Mostly because the pool isnt particularly deep. So yes hes washed up, no one cares how consistent you are if you arent winning like you used to. Sorry if that tickles your patriotic nerves but that's just how it is.
As for Taufik its precisely because hes so momentum based that I'd give him a pretty good chance. Just because hes bad at playing a particular opponent doesnt mean LCW is a bigger favourite imo. I can see him going into any tournament and say .. yeah this guy could win. Never gotten that vibe from LCW.. ever.
The ball ? Ok
This just in, the competetive pool is only 4 players deep... Is Peter Gade what he used to be? No, he has aged, no doubt about it. But calling #5 in the world for washed up is a rather stupid statement, patriotism or not.
Furthermore I don't think you actually understood what I said. I didn't say that Taufik plays bad against LCW, I said that Taufik plays terrible against ANYONE when he isn't in the mood to play - which is surprisingly often and as soon as he gets down 5-7 points he simply quits. LCW on the other hand is a fighter, he simply just won't quit. Recall the match between Lin Dan and LCW in 2006, Malaysia Open?
And this is the guy that never gave you the vibe that he was going to win?
Right.
EDIT: My deepest apologies for typing ball and not shuttlecock, I'm so sorry I made a mistake in my 3.rd language out of the 6 I speak, THE HORROR!!!!!!
On July 25 2012 13:43 SgtCoDFish wrote: I never watch badminton except at the Olympics... I absolutely cannot wait for it to start, I'll be following really closely. :D
Tournaments are aired frequently on the star network in East Asia. Pretty sure you can find streams for it quite easily. From what I remember when I lived in the region the commentating is pretty top notch. But again thats only if you have the time to follow the scene.
On July 25 2012 23:23 Ghostcom wrote: Sorry, but no one does trick shots like Peter Gade:
And that was a gamewinning point. Manner CC got NOTHING on Gade.
Cept hes pretty much washed up.. obvious favourites Dan, Chen (jin), Hidayat.
Peter Gade has like 10 years on everyone else in the field, yet still frequently gets to the quaters/semis despite his recent injuries. If you call that washed up I wish I was washed up... Sure he isn't #1 in the world as he used to be, but on a good day he'll beat anyone except for an inform LCW/Lin Dan.
Furthermore, Taufik isn't a favorite over LCW, even despite LCW recent injury. Taufik is a lazy bastard who is wasting his talent. He just might be the most talented guy I have ever seen pick up a racket (in his young years you could really see him wondering whenever he got the ball high at the net which of his 587292 brilliant shots he should make and then he would botch it) but he is such a mood-player and he gives up waaaaaaay too soon.
Mostly because the pool isnt particularly deep. So yes hes washed up, no one cares how consistent you are if you arent winning like you used to. Sorry if that tickles your patriotic nerves but that's just how it is.
As for Taufik its precisely because hes so momentum based that I'd give him a pretty good chance. Just because hes bad at playing a particular opponent doesnt mean LCW is a bigger favourite imo. I can see him going into any tournament and say .. yeah this guy could win. Never gotten that vibe from LCW.. ever.
The ball ? Ok
This just in, the competetive pool is only 4 players deep... Is Peter Gade what he used to be? No, he has aged, no doubt about it. But calling #5 in the world for washed up is a rather stupid statement, patriotism or not.
Furthermore I don't think you actually understood what I said. I didn't say that Taufik plays bad against LCW, I said that Taufik plays terrible against ANYONE when he isn't in the mood to play - which is surprisingly often and as soon as he gets down 5-7 points he simply quits. LCW on the other hand is a fighter, he simply just won't quit. Recall the match between Lin Dan and LCW in 2006, Malaysia Open?
And this is the guy that never gave you the vibe that he was going to win?
Right.
EDIT: My deepest apologies for typing ball and not shuttlecock, I'm so sorry I made a mistake in my 3.rd language out of the 6 I speak, THE HORROR!!!!!!
So your telling me there isnt a significant gulf between legit contenders and someone who looks decent but rarely ever win stacked tournaments ?
Thats Gade for you at the moment. I dont care how you slice it, Hes not winning and that means hes done for me. Just hanging around going deep in some tournaments is someone clearly not letting go.
The top 4 are miles ahead of everyone imo. Kinda like Tennis actually. Players like Tago or Sasaki wouldnt get a sniff at top 10 even around the time Gade was at his peak and perhaps maybe a half decade before then aswell. Only the chinese have managed to maintain the consistency of producing strong lineups since.
As for LCW I said going into tournaments, I just dont see him as someone who can blow away a tournament Taufik can do that. And I understood what you said, but I assumed your reasoning for rating him higher was something lousy like a better haead to head.
Till he wins won a major final instead of a tour win I cant rate him. Having a never say die attitude is obviously something to appreciate.. but so what, then win.
Bragging about how many languages you speak has little to do with the fact that you made a pretty big booboo on an english forum.
On July 25 2012 13:43 SgtCoDFish wrote: I never watch badminton except at the Olympics... I absolutely cannot wait for it to start, I'll be following really closely. :D
Tournaments are aired frequently on the star network in East Asia. Pretty sure you can find streams for it quite easily. From what I remember when I lived in the region the commentating is pretty top notch. But again thats only if you have the time to follow the scene.
On July 25 2012 23:23 Ghostcom wrote: Sorry, but no one does trick shots like Peter Gade:
And that was a gamewinning point. Manner CC got NOTHING on Gade.
Cept hes pretty much washed up.. obvious favourites Dan, Chen (jin), Hidayat.
Peter Gade has like 10 years on everyone else in the field, yet still frequently gets to the quaters/semis despite his recent injuries. If you call that washed up I wish I was washed up... Sure he isn't #1 in the world as he used to be, but on a good day he'll beat anyone except for an inform LCW/Lin Dan.
Furthermore, Taufik isn't a favorite over LCW, even despite LCW recent injury. Taufik is a lazy bastard who is wasting his talent. He just might be the most talented guy I have ever seen pick up a racket (in his young years you could really see him wondering whenever he got the ball high at the net which of his 587292 brilliant shots he should make and then he would botch it) but he is such a mood-player and he gives up waaaaaaay too soon.
Mostly because the pool isnt particularly deep. So yes hes washed up, no one cares how consistent you are if you arent winning like you used to. Sorry if that tickles your patriotic nerves but that's just how it is.
As for Taufik its precisely because hes so momentum based that I'd give him a pretty good chance. Just because hes bad at playing a particular opponent doesnt mean LCW is a bigger favourite imo. I can see him going into any tournament and say .. yeah this guy could win. Never gotten that vibe from LCW.. ever.
The ball ? Ok
This just in, the competetive pool is only 4 players deep... Is Peter Gade what he used to be? No, he has aged, no doubt about it. But calling #5 in the world for washed up is a rather stupid statement, patriotism or not.
Furthermore I don't think you actually understood what I said. I didn't say that Taufik plays bad against LCW, I said that Taufik plays terrible against ANYONE when he isn't in the mood to play - which is surprisingly often and as soon as he gets down 5-7 points he simply quits. LCW on the other hand is a fighter, he simply just won't quit. Recall the match between Lin Dan and LCW in 2006, Malaysia Open?
And this is the guy that never gave you the vibe that he was going to win?
Right.
EDIT: My deepest apologies for typing ball and not shuttlecock, I'm so sorry I made a mistake in my 3.rd language out of the 6 I speak, THE HORROR!!!!!!
So your telling me there isnt a significant gulf between legit contenders and someone who looks decent but rarely ever win stacked tournaments ? Thats Gade for you at the moment. I dont care how you slice it, Hes not winning and that means hes done for me. Just hanging around going deep in some tournaments is someone clearly not letting go.
As for LCW I said going into tournaments, I just dont see him as someone who can blow away a tournament Taufik can do that. And I understood what you said, but I assumed your reasoning for rating him higher was something lousy like a better haead to head.
Bragging about how many languages you speak has little to do with the fact that you made a pretty big booboo on an english forum.
So you like to assume people who disagree with you are idiots? You know what happens when you assume...
Considering your own mistakes, perhaps you should refrain from being so quick to point out others? (it's English, not english - holy shit dude, after all the flak you gave me then you write "were" instead of "we're", that one is legitimatly terrible). Especially when they can hardly be said to be misleading.
I don't see this going anywhere fruitful, so have a nice day. GL with cheering for Taufik, I sure hope he decides to play because then we are in for quite the treat.
On July 25 2012 13:43 SgtCoDFish wrote: I never watch badminton except at the Olympics... I absolutely cannot wait for it to start, I'll be following really closely. :D
Tournaments are aired frequently on the star network in East Asia. Pretty sure you can find streams for it quite easily. From what I remember when I lived in the region the commentating is pretty top notch. But again thats only if you have the time to follow the scene.
On July 25 2012 23:23 Ghostcom wrote: Sorry, but no one does trick shots like Peter Gade:
And that was a gamewinning point. Manner CC got NOTHING on Gade.
Cept hes pretty much washed up.. obvious favourites Dan, Chen (jin), Hidayat.
Peter Gade has like 10 years on everyone else in the field, yet still frequently gets to the quaters/semis despite his recent injuries. If you call that washed up I wish I was washed up... Sure he isn't #1 in the world as he used to be, but on a good day he'll beat anyone except for an inform LCW/Lin Dan.
Furthermore, Taufik isn't a favorite over LCW, even despite LCW recent injury. Taufik is a lazy bastard who is wasting his talent. He just might be the most talented guy I have ever seen pick up a racket (in his young years you could really see him wondering whenever he got the ball high at the net which of his 587292 brilliant shots he should make and then he would botch it) but he is such a mood-player and he gives up waaaaaaay too soon.
Mostly because the pool isnt particularly deep. So yes hes washed up, no one cares how consistent you are if you arent winning like you used to. Sorry if that tickles your patriotic nerves but that's just how it is.
As for Taufik its precisely because hes so momentum based that I'd give him a pretty good chance. Just because hes bad at playing a particular opponent doesnt mean LCW is a bigger favourite imo. I can see him going into any tournament and say .. yeah this guy could win. Never gotten that vibe from LCW.. ever.
The ball ? Ok
This just in, the competetive pool is only 4 players deep... Is Peter Gade what he used to be? No, he has aged, no doubt about it. But calling #5 in the world for washed up is a rather stupid statement, patriotism or not.
Furthermore I don't think you actually understood what I said. I didn't say that Taufik plays bad against LCW, I said that Taufik plays terrible against ANYONE when he isn't in the mood to play - which is surprisingly often and as soon as he gets down 5-7 points he simply quits. LCW on the other hand is a fighter, he simply just won't quit. Recall the match between Lin Dan and LCW in 2006, Malaysia Open?
And this is the guy that never gave you the vibe that he was going to win?
Right.
EDIT: My deepest apologies for typing ball and not shuttlecock, I'm so sorry I made a mistake in my 3.rd language out of the 6 I speak, THE HORROR!!!!!!
So your telling me there isnt a significant gulf between legit contenders and someone who looks decent but rarely ever win stacked tournaments ? Thats Gade for you at the moment. I dont care how you slice it, Hes not winning and that means hes done for me. Just hanging around going deep in some tournaments is someone clearly not letting go.
As for LCW I said going into tournaments, I just dont see him as someone who can blow away a tournament Taufik can do that. And I understood what you said, but I assumed your reasoning for rating him higher was something lousy like a better haead to head.
Bragging about how many languages you speak has little to do with the fact that you made a pretty big booboo on an english forum.
So you like to assume people who disagree with you are idiots? You know what happens when you assume...
Considering your own mistakes, perhaps you should refrain from being so quick to point out others? (it's English, not english) Especially when they can hardly be said to be misleading.
I don't see this going anywhere fruitful, so have a nice day. GL with cheering for Taufik, I sure hope he decides to play because then we are in for quite the treat.
yes because using lower case and ignoring punctuation is the same as calling a shuttle a ball. The former means im lazy. The latter tells me someone doesnt know what the fuck they are talking about. So naturally its something easy to assume. It has nothing to do with the quality of english. Making an excuse that its one of 6 languages and then make a fart about a game you apparently seem to sound like you know much about is a different story to typos.
But you already knew that.
I suppose we can agree to disagree. Hopefully LCW's ankles hold up, rather have him in full form then another Gade semi/quarter loss.
edit: and make no mistake if he doesnt choke up for once and wins this one. Ill consider him the best in the world (LCW) but till that nope.
I started a badminton club as a beginner about two years ago. Now two years later we are still playing some 2-3 times a week with new people every month. I had no idea there was a Swedish player in the singles men list, I hope I'll have a chance to watch some of his games. Though I doubt he has much of a chance
On July 26 2012 01:29 Xiron wrote:That's why these guys are no muscle packed beasts :p I've got a question: Are the players able to play with both hands? I think it would certainly be handy to be able to switch hands.
We have a Korean player that is ambidextrous, making him able to smash on both the sides when doing long ones. But then it might not work for a professional player (or even high level player).
I'm rooting for Lin Dan here. I probably won't be able to catch too many of the badminton games (as I already have to choose from tennis/track&field/basketball/swimming/gymnastics/ping-pong, can't watch them all!)...but I've seen him play, and he's a beast. Hope he takes home the gold, also since he's starting to get a bit older.
A long time ago, in my youth, I played badminton competitively on a national level. It was the only sport I think I really loved playing, it was exhilarating to simply play. However, I stopped playing upon entering second year of high school, the reason for which escapes me now. Since that time, I have not picked up a racket, seen a shuttle or had anything to do with badminton in any way.
So I saw this thread a couple of hours ago, clicked on a youtube video...
And I have now watched some highlights from both singles and doubles competitions from the last few World Championships and French Opens.
Badminton is amazing. It is really strange to see it on a monitor though, looks very little from what it looks like in the hall. Also, what the hell, when I played, it was customary to forehand serve in singles. And you only won points off your own serve, sets went to 15. What is this.
I am now officially excited about the Olympics. Thank you Team Liquid for letting me rediscover something I loved in my youth.
Mens Singles: 1) Lin Dan 2) Lee Chong Wei 3) Taufik Hidayat Mens Doubles: 1) Chung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae 2) Cai Yun / Fu Haifeng 3) Biao/Zhendong Womens Singles: 1) Wang Yihan 2) Wang Xin 3) Li Xuerui Womens Doubles: 1) Wang Xiaoli / Yu Yang 2) Ha Jung Eun / Kim Min Jung 3)Tian Qing / Zhao Yunlei Mixed Doubles: 1) Zhang/Zhao 2) Xu/Ma 3) Ahmad/Natsir
Country by Gold medals: 1) China 2) Korea 3) Malaysia Country by total medals: 1) China 2) Korea 3) Indonesia
On July 27 2012 13:21 Porcelina wrote: This is, well, this is cool.
A long time ago, in my youth, I played badminton competitively on a national level. It was the only sport I think I really loved playing, it was exhilarating to simply play. However, I stopped playing upon entering second year of high school, the reason for which escapes me now. Since that time, I have not picked up a racket, seen a shuttle or had anything to do with badminton in any way.
So I saw this thread a couple of hours ago, clicked on a youtube video...
And I have now watched some highlights from both singles and doubles competitions from the last few World Championships and French Opens.
Badminton is amazing. It is really strange to see it on a monitor though, looks very little from what it looks like in the hall. Also, what the hell, when I played, it was customary to forehand serve in singles. And you only won points off your own serve, sets went to 15. What is this.
I am now officially excited about the Olympics. Thank you Team Liquid for letting me rediscover something I loved in my youth.
<3 <3 <3
Yeah, about 10 years ago they adopted overhead camera angle like in tennis. It allows them to see everything, but unfortunately it's hard to discern the height of the shuttle, which is important for tactical reasons. I prefer the older low perspective camera angles they used about 15 years ago.
The scoring system change came about 6-7 years ago. The reason was that it gave more consistent game lengths which was beneficial for tournament planning and broadcasting. In the old system two defensive players could trade rallies for a long time without ever advancing the score.
As for the high serve in singles, at some level of play players are fast and powerful enough to make strong offensive plays from the rearcourt off a deep serve. They'll actually step out behind the court, jump up and into the court for the smash, then get to the net in about 3 quick steps to finish off the rally.
On July 27 2012 13:21 Porcelina wrote: This is, well, this is cool.
A long time ago, in my youth, I played badminton competitively on a national level. It was the only sport I think I really loved playing, it was exhilarating to simply play. However, I stopped playing upon entering second year of high school, the reason for which escapes me now. Since that time, I have not picked up a racket, seen a shuttle or had anything to do with badminton in any way.
So I saw this thread a couple of hours ago, clicked on a youtube video...
And I have now watched some highlights from both singles and doubles competitions from the last few World Championships and French Opens.
Badminton is amazing. It is really strange to see it on a monitor though, looks very little from what it looks like in the hall. Also, what the hell, when I played, it was customary to forehand serve in singles. And you only won points off your own serve, sets went to 15. What is this.
I am now officially excited about the Olympics. Thank you Team Liquid for letting me rediscover something I loved in my youth.
<3 <3 <3
Yeah, about 10 years ago they adopted overhead camera angle like in tennis. It allows them to see everything, but unfortunately it's hard to discern the height of the shuttle, which is important for tactical reasons. I prefer the older low perspective camera angles they used about 15 years ago.
The scoring system change came about 6-7 years ago. The reason was that it gave more consistent game lengths which was beneficial for tournament planning and broadcasting. In the old system two defensive players could trade rallies for a long time without ever advancing the score.
As for the high serve in singles, at some level of play players are fast and powerful enough to make strong offensive plays from the rearcourt off a deep serve. They'll actually step out behind the court, jump up and into the court for the smash, then get to the net in about 3 quick steps to finish off the rally.
I dont believe your legally allowed to have the racket head and the shuttle above your racket elbow at the point of release. I think by high serves he just meant shitty forehand pokes over the net. The serve arc has to go upwards.
And yeah that serve point rule was a lot less intense. I think the last olympics that had it was 2004.
On July 27 2012 13:21 Porcelina wrote: This is, well, this is cool.
A long time ago, in my youth, I played badminton competitively on a national level. It was the only sport I think I really loved playing, it was exhilarating to simply play. However, I stopped playing upon entering second year of high school, the reason for which escapes me now. Since that time, I have not picked up a racket, seen a shuttle or had anything to do with badminton in any way.
So I saw this thread a couple of hours ago, clicked on a youtube video...
And I have now watched some highlights from both singles and doubles competitions from the last few World Championships and French Opens.
Badminton is amazing. It is really strange to see it on a monitor though, looks very little from what it looks like in the hall. Also, what the hell, when I played, it was customary to forehand serve in singles. And you only won points off your own serve, sets went to 15. What is this.
I am now officially excited about the Olympics. Thank you Team Liquid for letting me rediscover something I loved in my youth.
<3 <3 <3
Similar story here, but I had to stop in my last year U17 because of my knee, in which I took an arrow (in fact it is so damaged that doctors told me it will be painful to play for the rest of my life, and they didnt lie). You should try to give it a second shot now, this is truly the best sport ever
On the monitor it feels the court is so small and that the players barely move. I recall a friend watching some videos and then taunteing me this sport seemed easy, a friendly taunt but with a little feeling of incredulity. I can tell you the surprise on his face when we played together and he saw that "wait, do I actually have to make 3-4 steps to get to the end starting form half the court in THAT SHORT time ? And why does it seem you don't move at all while I am practically death after 15 minutes ?" was priceless.
Also, the speed of the shuttle is hard to grasp when you aren't used to it ; at the French Open some years ago, some friends had hard times following men's or mixed doubles and were amazed at how players could get every shuttle for 8 or more folowing smashes . Finally, most "noobs" think that to get the shuttle far enough in the court you have to make a tennis-like enormous slash with all their might and arm, and are quite surprised to see that wrist action is often enough (not speaking about real conditions)
On July 27 2012 13:21 Porcelina wrote: This is, well, this is cool.
A long time ago, in my youth, I played badminton competitively on a national level. It was the only sport I think I really loved playing, it was exhilarating to simply play. However, I stopped playing upon entering second year of high school, the reason for which escapes me now. Since that time, I have not picked up a racket, seen a shuttle or had anything to do with badminton in any way.
So I saw this thread a couple of hours ago, clicked on a youtube video...
And I have now watched some highlights from both singles and doubles competitions from the last few World Championships and French Opens.
Badminton is amazing. It is really strange to see it on a monitor though, looks very little from what it looks like in the hall. Also, what the hell, when I played, it was customary to forehand serve in singles. And you only won points off your own serve, sets went to 15. What is this.
I am now officially excited about the Olympics. Thank you Team Liquid for letting me rediscover something I loved in my youth.
<3 <3 <3
The thing with a high clear serve is that it gives your opponent control of the rally right away. They can clear, smash, drop, and more from a high clear serve. When you serve short, all they can do is either clear, drop, or push the birdie which is easier to deal with than the possibility of smashing. When I was in China for training, trying high clear serves for the lawls, the kids over there would always smash that clear. They have fantastic smashes...
High clear serve is really only used if you are a very slow, controlling player or for BM
Similar story here, but I had to stop in my last year U17 because of my knee, in which I took an arrow (in fact it is so damaged that doctors told me it will be painful to play for the rest of my life, and they didnt lie). You should try to give it a second shot now, this is truly the best sport ever
Same man, I was on national team for U11, U13 until my knees became fucked up from injuries. I had oswald schlatter on both knees for 2 years, then I could play for a year, then I tore my ACL in my right knee from a skiing accident, meaning I couldn't play for another 3 years then combined with ankle injuries, I don't think that I can play professionally as I wished I could. There is the possibility that I will be able to get back in during college (entering this fall) but it takes 10 years of hard training to become a professional regardless.
Havent watched badminton in ages, used to be an avid player myself (7 years long 6 days a week) and I'm sure as hell gonna watch this! Thanks for making this a thread :D
Mens Singles: 1) Lee Chong Wei, 2) Lin Dan, 3) Chen Long Mens Doubles: 1) Cai/Fu, 2) Jung/Lee, 3) Boe/Mogensen Womens Singles: 1) Wang Yihan, 2) Li Xuerui, 3) Wang Xin Womens Doubles: 1) Wang/Yu, 2) Tian/Zhao, 3) Ha/Kim Mixed Doubles: 1) Xu/Ma, 2) Zhang/Zhao, 3) Ahmad/Natsir Country by Gold medals: 1) China, 2) Korea, 3) Malaysia Country by total medals: 1) China, 2) Korea, 3) Denmark
For those wondering about why high serve isn't used much anymore, watch the 2nd point of this match. Granted, this is Lin Dan, badminton god. Watch from 5:00.
Mens Singles: 1) Lin Dan, 2) Lee Chong Wei, 3) Taufik Hidayat Mens Doubles: 1)Jung/Lee, 2)Cai/Fu , 3) Boe/Morg Womens Singles: 1) Li Xuerui, 2) Wang Yihan, 3) Wang Shixian Womens Doubles: 1) Wang/Yu, 2) Tian/Zhao, 3) Ha/Kim Mixed Doubles: 1) Xu/Ma, 2) Zhang/Zhao, 3) Ahmad/Natsir
Country by Gold medals: 1) China, 2) Korea, 3) Malaysia (although I dont think golds are going outside China and Korea) Country by Medals : 1) China, 2) Korea 3) Malaysia
On July 28 2012 08:30 Rebs wrote: Mens Singles: 1) Lin Dan, 2) Lee Chong Wei, 3) Taufik Hidayat Mens Doubles: 1)Jung/Lee, 2)Cai/Fu , 3) Boe/Morg Womens Singles: 1) Li Xuerui, 2) Wang Yihan, 3) Wang Shixian Womens Doubles: 1) Wang/Yu, 2) Tian/Zhao, 3) Ha/Kim Mixed Doubles: 1) Xu/Ma, 2) Zhang/Zhao, 3) Ahmad/Natsir
Country by Gold medals: 1) China, 2) Korea, 3) Malaysia (although I dont think golds are going outside China and Korea) Country by Medals : 1) China, 2) Korea 3) Malaysia
The BBC literally has the most amazing coverage of 2012 I've ever seen. Literally has streams of every sport and you are able to rewind like MLG player.
On July 28 2012 22:21 Micket wrote: The BBC literally has the most amazing coverage of 2012 I've ever seen. Literally has streams of every sport and you are able to rewind like MLG player.
NBC has the same thing going. Every heat/game/round is pretty much available and replayable.
Out of curiousity is it a youtube embed on the BBC streams?
On July 28 2012 22:21 Micket wrote: The BBC literally has the most amazing coverage of 2012 I've ever seen. Literally has streams of every sport and you are able to rewind like MLG player.
NBC has the same thing going. Every heat/game/round is pretty much available and replayable.
Out of curiousity is it a youtube embed on the BBC streams?
we have 2 channels...both showing the cycling...amazing.....not
Sweden got some 8 streams, at least half with commentating for free running all different sports. Super awesome.
Anyway is my observation correct(only watched a few matches of Badminton) when they play mixed double that they tend to always shoot the "ball" to the female or am I imagining stuff? At least when they smash they always seem to do it heh..
Not sure how competitive mixed doubles are outside of the olympics or is it like Tennis? no one really cares about double...
Jan Ø. Jørgensen to teach Israel a lesson in what REAL badminton looks like!
EDIT: And people care about mens doubles and mix doubles, very much so in fact. The only discipline I personally have a hard time getting excited about is womens doubles - it is simply too slow compared to the other disciplines.
EDIT2: Crap, this is going too easy. I fear Jan won't really get into tournamentmode - oh well, at least he'll get a sense of the venue.
On July 29 2012 02:39 DwD wrote: Sweden got some 8 streams, at least half with commentating for free running all different sports. Super awesome.
Anyway is my observation correct(only watched a few matches of Badminton) when they play mixed double that they tend to always shoot the "ball" to the female or am I imagining stuff? At least when they smash they always seem to do it heh..
Not sure how competitive mixed doubles are outside of the olympics or is it like Tennis? no one really cares about double...
Badminton doubles is mostly all doubles specialists, so doubles matters more in Badminton than in Tennis. Mixed doubles also tends to be mostly mixed doubles specialists.
And yes, in mixed doubles, people always aim for the women. Doesn't matter if it's Tennis, Badminton or Squash (you can't really do it in Table Tennis due to how doubles works there, though).
On July 28 2012 22:21 Micket wrote: The BBC literally has the most amazing coverage of 2012 I've ever seen. Literally has streams of every sport and you are able to rewind like MLG player.
NBC has the same thing going. Every heat/game/round is pretty much available and replayable.
Out of curiousity is it a youtube embed on the BBC streams?
CTV for canadians is the same. Has every single sport, with full rewind feature and everything, although their VOD system could use a revamp, or else a link somewhere, because AFAIK the only place to see VODS is a tiny 3 per page banner, which doesn't really work well.
EDIT2: Crap, this is going too easy. I fear Jan won't really get into tournamentmode - oh well, at least he'll get a sense of the venue.
Almost all of the prelims were light workouts. Whats fun is when the underdogs win a tough point and do a little fist pump or a cheer and then get rolled for the rest of the set.
On July 29 2012 02:39 DwD wrote: Sweden got some 8 streams, at least half with commentating for free running all different sports. Super awesome.
Anyway is my observation correct(only watched a few matches of Badminton) when they play mixed double that they tend to always shoot the "ball" to the female or am I imagining stuff? At least when they smash they always seem to do it heh..
Not sure how competitive mixed doubles are outside of the olympics or is it like Tennis? no one really cares about double...
All smashes are going to the girl because the girl normally will be weaker than her make partner. And yes, mixed doubles is played at yup level outside of olympics, like all other badminton events.
With regards to the mixed doubles, it actually isn't as easy as all smashes are going towards the female. When watching, try to note how the defensive pair will always try to have the female standing diagonally to the attacking sides man. This means the birdie, will travel a longer distance and therefore the defending female will have a longer period of time to react in. There can be a great advantage to attacking down the line as not only will the smash itself be more powerfull (shorter distance to travel), your female partner can very easily break the return and thus possibly win the rally for you.
Overly simplified: The situations where you decide to smash on the female are if you are smashing from a great position on the court, i.e. you opponent has done a bad lift which only went to the front backline or you have managed to get them to rotate wrong and she is standing on a line with you. Else the choice of play is usually a drop (ball from back of court to the net) straight down the line, a clear (back to back of the court) over the head of the female player if you think it can force their female to the back of the court or some sort of flat shot which is planned to touch down at the middle of the court/right behind the serving line. All these shots will in theory give you another option of attacking. If you simply always smash on the female you are going to have a rough time because if she stands diagonally it is very easy for her to steer the return to the opposite side of the court compared to where you are standing and then you'll lose the rally.
There are several exceptions, and in the end it depends on how the pairs play mixed double. Take for instance the former Danish pair Thomas Laybourne/Kamilla Rytter Juhl. Kamilla was able to smash almost as hard as Thomas which meant they rotated quite a bit different than your usual mixed double.
I'm just hoping for Peter Gade and Tine Baun to do well in their last olympics. Gold medals may be unrealistic, but I think bronze would be a worthy for both of them, especially Peter Gade!
Overall gogo Danish badminton ;-). We can't have China and Malaysia taking all the medals!
i can't quite put my finger on it.. but lee hyun il's style is intriguing---so positional and sharp. i remember he'd defeated lin dan in tournaments years ago and i thought he stopped playing for a long time.
games will be back by 12:30pm CDT. People, use expat shield to watch BBC streams. Make sure that after connecting with expat shield that you restart your browser to get to the streams.
Boe and Nuller will hopefully beast this up - as long as they can keep the Russians away from the attack they should be fine. Will be interesting to see if they have managed to return to their former level. DK FIGHTING!
EDIT: Seriously?! Stop playing on the Russians terms.
On July 30 2012 02:35 Ghostcom wrote: Boe and Nuller will hopefully beast this up - as long as they can keep the Russians away from the attack they should be fine. Will be interesting to see if they have managed to return to their former level. DK FIGHTING!
EDIT: Seriously?! Stop playing on the Russians terms.
On July 30 2012 02:35 Ghostcom wrote: Boe and Nuller will hopefully beast this up - as long as they can keep the Russians away from the attack they should be fine. Will be interesting to see if they have managed to return to their former level. DK FIGHTING!
EDIT: Seriously?! Stop playing on the Russians terms.
they won game 2, but Boe is playing like an idiot
Yea even if they win this, its not looking like inspiring play atm. The russians go on runs and they seem clueless on how to stifle it for far to long in the sets. Rolling with those margins is fine for now.. but meh.
edit: yeah as mentioned below. They figured it out. But honestly the homework shouldve been there. I dont think the Russians did anything they didnt expect them to. They were just being lazy for a bit.
On July 30 2012 02:35 Ghostcom wrote: Boe and Nuller will hopefully beast this up - as long as they can keep the Russians away from the attack they should be fine. Will be interesting to see if they have managed to return to their former level. DK FIGHTING!
EDIT: Seriously?! Stop playing on the Russians terms.
they won game 2, but Boe is playing like an idiot
Boe is rather unlucky and has made a lot of unforced errors/terrible serves, but his descionmaking has been pretty good through 2.nd and 3.rd. Both need to seek the net more aggressively, but I think especially Nuller has been bad at it. The problem for me has been that they have tried to play through the Russians instead of around them - and that is exactly what the Russians want. But I think the Russian spirit is broken now.
Can I ask what stream, channel or program you guys are watching badminton on? I've checked those on the front page other than those I need to download and I can't seem to watch any. Pretty sure CTV, CBC, etc isn't gonna show badminton of all sports too
If you can somehow get around the region issues, you can go to the BBC website, then go to Olympics 2012 and choose the Watch live action and then pick Badminton group play (there are 2 to choose from)
On July 31 2012 06:03 TonyL2 wrote: Well it's being shown on TV here
If you can somehow get around the region issues, you can go to the BBC website, then go to Olympics 2012 and choose the Watch live action and then pick Badminton group play (there are 2 to choose from)
Chong Wei not playing too badly though, just Lang is playing his heart out in the third set. Looks like a completely different person than in the first set
Going to be interesting to see how LCW ancle is going to hold up to getting pressured...
EDIT: Rewatching todays games, holy christ, didn't see the Niluka beating Toga!!!! What wellplayed match by Niluka, really seizing his chance.
EDIT: And the Danish mix doubles beasting it up. Holy christ I love Joachim Fischer. He just wants to win like no one else, he is so full of energy and enthusiasm that it is impossible to for the crowd not to raise the roof. That save around 13-12 was incredible and really just goes to show that the rally isn't over until the bird is on the ground!!!
Booing in the China/ South Korea womens doubles match. Both teams trying to lose on purpose and the referee threatened to pulled black card on both teams. Poor sportsmanship there.
On August 01 2012 03:39 amazingxkcd wrote: Booing in the China/ South Korea womens doubles match. Both teams trying to lose on purpose and the referee threatened to pulled black card on both teams. Poor sportsmanship there.
are both teams doing that because they advanced to the quarterfinals?
On August 01 2012 03:39 amazingxkcd wrote: Booing in the China/ South Korea womens doubles match. Both teams trying to lose on purpose and the referee threatened to pulled black card on both teams. Poor sportsmanship there.
are both teams doing that because they advanced to the quarterfinals?
They still doing this blatently. I think that both teams want the 2nd seed because an underdog team came out 1st. Or its possible that both don't want to teamkill here.
On August 01 2012 03:39 amazingxkcd wrote: Booing in the China/ South Korea womens doubles match. Both teams trying to lose on purpose and the referee threatened to pulled black card on both teams. Poor sportsmanship there.
are both teams doing that because they advanced to the quarterfinals?
They still doing this blatently. I think that both teams want the 2nd seed because an underdog team came out 1st. Or its possible that both don't want to teamkill here.
Group D the Danish ladies won over China didn't they?Winner of that group will have to play them I think(who ended up 2nd in group BEHIND DENMARK)and neither Korea nor China wants to play them, they'd rather play Denmark.
China didn't want to end up vs China and neither did Korea.
On August 01 2012 03:55 Kipsate wrote: Group D the Danish ladies won over China didn't they?Winner of that group will have to play them I think(who ended up 2nd in group BEHIND DENMARK)and neither Korea nor China wants to play them, they'd rather play Denmark.
China didn't want to end up vs China and neither did Korea.
Hence the throwing of the games. This is always bound to happen when you have group stages. China was way more blatently throwing the game away due to the teamkill, especially after Korea toned their losing down in game 2.
LOL. Korea and Indonesia in women's doubles are both throwing the match because they're both through. It will be interesting to see how the officials resolve this.
Is group play a basic group stages like any other sport, where you just have to be like top 1 (or 2) of each group
Or is every game an elimination match?
I remember hearing how the person who lost Lin Dan would only play that 1 game in the whole tournament but then how come KOR and CHN were trying to throw women's doubles?
On August 01 2012 05:46 TonyL2 wrote: How does the tournament format work?
Is group play a basic group stages like any other sport, where you just have to be like top 1 (or 2) of each group
Or is every game an elimination match?
I remember hearing how the person who lost Lin Dan would only play that 1 game in the whole tournament but then how come KOR and CHN were trying to throw women's doubles?
On August 01 2012 03:55 Kipsate wrote: Group D the Danish ladies won over China didn't they?Winner of that group will have to play them I think(who ended up 2nd in group BEHIND DENMARK)and neither Korea nor China wants to play them, they'd rather play Denmark.
China didn't want to end up vs China and neither did Korea.
On August 01 2012 05:46 TonyL2 wrote: How does the tournament format work?
Is group play a basic group stages like any other sport, where you just have to be like top 1 (or 2) of each group
Or is every game an elimination match?
I remember hearing how the person who lost Lin Dan would only play that 1 game in the whole tournament but then how come KOR and CHN were trying to throw women's doubles?
If KOR loses, then both CHN teams are on same side of brackets, which makes CHN's throwing of games worthless.
On August 01 2012 06:11 TonyL2 wrote: Is there a reason why some of the men singles group, there are 2 in a group and some with 3? Is it to do with seedings?
South Korea was trying to throw just as hard, they didn't want to go up vs. China the first round of playoffs.
They really should just reseed/redraw matchups after group play. If you have pre-determined matchups, stuff like this will always happen, as it does in every event from Olympics to WCG already meh.
On August 01 2012 10:46 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: South Korea was trying to throw just as hard, they didn't want to go up vs. China the first round of playoffs.
They really should just reseed/redraw matchups after group play. If you have pre-determined matchups, stuff like this will always happen, as it does in every event from Olympics to WCG already meh.
I believe this was the first time they've tried group play in Olympic badminton. I suppose it lets the lesser players get more games and exposure during the games, but you obviously run into the issues we saw today.
The old format was simply ro32 single elimination. Much simpler, with fiercer competition.
On August 01 2012 10:46 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: South Korea was trying to throw just as hard, they didn't want to go up vs. China the first round of playoffs.
They really should just reseed/redraw matchups after group play. If you have pre-determined matchups, stuff like this will always happen, as it does in every event from Olympics to WCG already meh.
I believe this was the first time they've tried group play in Olympic badminton. I suppose it lets the lesser players get more games and exposure during the games, but you obviously run into the issues we saw today.
The old format was simply ro32 single elimination. Much simpler, with fiercer competition.
but then you wouldn't get to see epic matches like Cordon vs Rajiv singles match, which was best singles match I've seen all tourney so far
I hope those idiotic match fixers get all banned for life.
Totally disagree.
If the motive was something out-of-game, like they bet on themselves to lose, or they were making a protest, then fair enough. What appears to have happened here, though was that the badminton teams lost indvidual matches as part of a good faith effort to win the tournament. They were maximising their chance of getting a medal placement, by tactically losing matches so they didn't face better opponents until later in the tournament. You cannot fault an athlete for playing to win, even if the winning move involves losing part of the game! The Starcraft reference is WCG 2008 (I think) where Stork caused endless tiebreakers in a failed attempt to not have to face Hwasin in the first bracket stage match. Nobody here thinks Stork should have been banned for life for that move.
It's entirely the fault of the people designing the tournament - they shouldn't choose the bracket opponents until after the last group stage match is played, and then the players don't (usually) have enough information to make the decision to choose whether or not to lose their games, and so they're most likely to have to play to win each individual game, as well as the tournament.
Of course, that is unlikely to happen. Instead we'll get players placed in the position of having to lose, but having to pretend to win because of some non-discrete rule where they'll get censured for not appearing to try hard enough.
I hope those idiotic match fixers get all banned for life.
It's entirely the fault of the people designing the tournament - they shouldn't choose the bracket opponents until after the last group stage match is played, and then the players don't (usually) have enough information to make the decision to choose whether or not to lose their games, and so they're most likely to have to play to win each individual game, as well as the tournament.
Of course, that is unlikely to happen. Instead we'll get players placed in the position of having to lose, but having to pretend to win because of some non-discrete rule where they'll get censured for not appearing to try hard enough.
This pretty much. I was quite angry while watching the match, but then hey, athletes will do the best they can to win and or help their country men, regardless of how many oaths you take or sporting manners,it falls upon the organizers to formulate a structure that prevents them from resorting second rate tactics to gain an advantage.
I hope those idiotic match fixers get all banned for life.
Totally disagree.
If the motive was something out-of-game, like they bet on themselves to lose, or they were making a protest, then fair enough. What appears to have happened here, though was that the badminton teams lost indvidual matches as part of a good faith effort to win the tournament. They were maximising their chance of getting a medal placement, by tactically losing matches so they didn't face better opponents until later in the tournament. You cannot fault an athlete for playing to win, even if the winning move involves losing part of the game! The Starcraft reference is WCG 2008 (I think) where Stork caused endless tiebreakers in a failed attempt to not have to face Hwasin in the first bracket stage match. Nobody here thinks Stork should have been banned for life for that move.
It's entirely the fault of the people designing the tournament - they shouldn't choose the bracket opponents until after the last group stage match is played, and then the players don't (usually) have enough information to make the decision to choose whether or not to lose their games, and so they're most likely to have to play to win each individual game, as well as the tournament.
Of course, that is unlikely to happen. Instead we'll get players placed in the position of having to lose, but having to pretend to win because of some non-discrete rule where they'll get censured for not appearing to try hard enough.
it defeats the whole purpose of competition. By throwing games its not even a competition anymore. I for one disagree with these players by saying just play the fucking game instead of disgracing your country by not giving it 110% every match.
I hope those idiotic match fixers get all banned for life.
Totally disagree.
If the motive was something out-of-game, like they bet on themselves to lose, or they were making a protest, then fair enough. What appears to have happened here, though was that the badminton teams lost indvidual matches as part of a good faith effort to win the tournament. They were maximising their chance of getting a medal placement, by tactically losing matches so they didn't face better opponents until later in the tournament. You cannot fault an athlete for playing to win, even if the winning move involves losing part of the game! The Starcraft reference is WCG 2008 (I think) where Stork caused endless tiebreakers in a failed attempt to not have to face Hwasin in the first bracket stage match. Nobody here thinks Stork should have been banned for life for that move.
It's entirely the fault of the people designing the tournament - they shouldn't choose the bracket opponents until after the last group stage match is played, and then the players don't (usually) have enough information to make the decision to choose whether or not to lose their games, and so they're most likely to have to play to win each individual game, as well as the tournament.
Of course, that is unlikely to happen. Instead we'll get players placed in the position of having to lose, but having to pretend to win because of some non-discrete rule where they'll get censured for not appearing to try hard enough.
I hope those idiotic match fixers get all banned for life.
Totally disagree.
If the motive was something out-of-game, like they bet on themselves to lose, or they were making a protest, then fair enough. What appears to have happened here, though was that the badminton teams lost indvidual matches as part of a good faith effort to win the tournament. They were maximising their chance of getting a medal placement, by tactically losing matches so they didn't face better opponents until later in the tournament. You cannot fault an athlete for playing to win, even if the winning move involves losing part of the game! The Starcraft reference is WCG 2008 (I think) where Stork caused endless tiebreakers in a failed attempt to not have to face Hwasin in the first bracket stage match. Nobody here thinks Stork should have been banned for life for that move.
It's entirely the fault of the people designing the tournament - they shouldn't choose the bracket opponents until after the last group stage match is played, and then the players don't (usually) have enough information to make the decision to choose whether or not to lose their games, and so they're most likely to have to play to win each individual game, as well as the tournament.
Of course, that is unlikely to happen. Instead we'll get players placed in the position of having to lose, but having to pretend to win because of some non-discrete rule where they'll get censured for not appearing to try hard enough.
It doesn't matter what their motive was. not using your full effort is in violation of player conduct 4.4.5 which they were charged with. Anyone participating in a BWF sanctioned tournament (eg: Olympics) must consent to these rules. The exact disciplinary action varies from case to case but I expect something along the lines of a fine. A suspension seems unlikely. Ultimately, an oversight in the tournament format (of which the governing body of badminton from China, Korea were all part of designing ironically) is not a legitimate excuse to break rules otherwise it defeats the purpose of having them in the first place.
it defeats the whole purpose of competition. By throwing games its not even a competition anymore. I for one disagree with these players by saying just play the fucking game instead of disgracing your country by not giving it 110% every match.
Then they wouldn't be giving the tournament 100%, because winning the single badminton game was making their chances of winning the tournament worse. The athletes were in a double-bind here, they had to choose whether to do what they had to do to win the tournament or to win the match. They couldn't do both at the same time. It was an unfair position for them to be in.
The tournament organisers shouldn't have put them in that position in the first place.
Read what I wrote. If the motivation isn't winning, it's match fixing. It's not match fixing, if the athletes are actually trying to win the tournament they're playing in. That's competition.
I hope those idiotic match fixers get all banned for life.
Totally disagree.
If the motive was something out-of-game, like they bet on themselves to lose, or they were making a protest, then fair enough. What appears to have happened here, though was that the badminton teams lost indvidual matches as part of a good faith effort to win the tournament. They were maximising their chance of getting a medal placement, by tactically losing matches so they didn't face better opponents until later in the tournament. You cannot fault an athlete for playing to win, even if the winning move involves losing part of the game! The Starcraft reference is WCG 2008 (I think) where Stork caused endless tiebreakers in a failed attempt to not have to face Hwasin in the first bracket stage match. Nobody here thinks Stork should have been banned for life for that move.
It's entirely the fault of the people designing the tournament - they shouldn't choose the bracket opponents until after the last group stage match is played, and then the players don't (usually) have enough information to make the decision to choose whether or not to lose their games, and so they're most likely to have to play to win each individual game, as well as the tournament.
Of course, that is unlikely to happen. Instead we'll get players placed in the position of having to lose, but having to pretend to win because of some non-discrete rule where they'll get censured for not appearing to try hard enough.
Yes because the no1 seed should throw matches to meet their countrymen who is no2 seed in the finals instead of in the semis... That's totally okay... But in the end it's the organizers fault as much as the players. Not playing matches which have direct effect on seeding at the same time is a rookie mistake and should not happen in sports where it is possible to throw like this.
I can understand the position of the athletes, they had the Olympic knockout tournament starting the next day that they want to rest and prepare for, so their interest level in what was essentially an exhibition match was quite low. Furthermore, because of the upset in the Denmark-China match the day before, they had even less incentive to win as winning would likely give them a more difficult path to the gold medal. Everyone's goal is to win the gold, unlike some other sports you only have 1-2 chances to win one every 4 years.
What was bad (but hilarious) was how terribly they went about throwing the match. It's like one team doing a Naniwa probe rush only to find that your opponent was doing the same. To be fair though, this type of thing happens all the time in sports. In the NHL and NBA, bottom dwelling teams will tank to improve their chances at winning the draft lottery, while teams that have secured their playoff positions will rest their superstars towards the end of the regular season. The advantage that team sports have is they can sub in their inexperienced players for easy losses, while in badminton it's a bit sillier to see the world number 1 pair miss half a dozen short serves in a row just from having a "bad day".
Looks like all 8 players have been DQ'd. Harsh. Fix your goddamn format next time.
Well, they did have to do it. I mean, people paid a lot of money to see them play and they just didn't show up. I mean, in the first game the longest rally was at 4 exchanges. Four! *I* could have won against them, that's how terrible they where playing. It's just as bad as NaNiwa's pull rush with the notable exception that those games /actually/ mattered.
Well, admittedly, I didn't watch the matches, so I guess they had to do something if it was so obvious. Still, all this could've easily been avoided had they not implemented such a stupid format. Lessons to be learned on all sides.
On August 01 2012 21:35 Telcontar wrote: Well, admittedly, I didn't watch the matches, so I guess they had to do something if it was so obvious. Still, all this could've easily been avoided had they not implemented such a stupid format. Lessons to be learned on all sides.
On August 01 2012 21:35 Telcontar wrote: Well, admittedly, I didn't watch the matches, so I guess they had to do something if it was so obvious. Still, all this could've easily been avoided had they not implemented such a stupid format. Lessons to be learned on all sides.
The same stupid format used in the FIFA world cup
It's not the same when you have more than one team from each country
On August 01 2012 21:35 Telcontar wrote: Well, admittedly, I didn't watch the matches, so I guess they had to do something if it was so obvious. Still, all this could've easily been avoided had they not implemented such a stupid format. Lessons to be learned on all sides.
The same stupid format used in the FIFA world cup
China didn't want to play China, that doesn't happen in FIFA world cup.
The decision is an absolute joke. Should football teams gets disqualified for putting a reserve team out? Should Usain Bolt be disqualified for jogging a 200m semi's heat and coming 2nd?
Should swimmers be disqualified for not trying hard in a semi to conserve energy? An athlete shouldn't be forced to play in a situation where winning is disadvantageous, thats unfair on the athletes/
The format is not to blame. The format is essentially the same as football world cup.. unless people also think that's a ridiculous format ...
All blame should be placed on the athletes/their coaches but organisers must also improve to reduce such cases. An example would be technology in sports to assist the referees to make dubious calls.
On August 01 2012 21:35 Telcontar wrote: Well, admittedly, I didn't watch the matches, so I guess they had to do something if it was so obvious. Still, all this could've easily been avoided had they not implemented such a stupid format. Lessons to be learned on all sides.
The same stupid format used in the FIFA world cup
China didn't want to play China, that doesn't happen in FIFA world cup.
You're right. But a team may want to avoid a better opponent. Same situation imo...
On August 01 2012 21:35 Telcontar wrote: Well, admittedly, I didn't watch the matches, so I guess they had to do something if it was so obvious. Still, all this could've easily been avoided had they not implemented such a stupid format. Lessons to be learned on all sides.
The same stupid format used in the FIFA world cup
China didn't want to play China, that doesn't happen in FIFA world cup.
You're right. But a team may want to avoid a better opponent. Same situation imo...
Not really, avoiding your own country means you can get double the medals....
About time BWF did this. China has been throwing/fixing the system for ages - and no matter how much you want to make this a parallel to a footballteam putting on the reserves it just isn't a correct parallel. Serving into the net 9 times in a row isn't a "bad day" or "conserving energy" it is blatantly throwing a game.
EDIT: With regards to the above. China could still have gotten 2 medals as whoever would have lost in the semis would've taken the bronze without a shadow of doubt.
On August 01 2012 21:44 Fenrax wrote: idiotic. "no there are no flaws in our system, our system works, it is good". And if you find flaws in it nonetheless, we justr ban you.
The format being flawed and the players being to blame are not mutually exclusive, though.
Beside, all the Chinese had to do to not face each other until the finals was not to lose a match. The second ranked Chinese pair lost a match, essentially meaning that their seeding for the tournament dropped from 2nd to 7th. The reward of the Danish pair that beat said Chinese pair was supposed to be avoiding the first seeded Chinese pair until the finals... until said pair lost their match on purpose. Definitively an issue with the player's behaviour.
Edit: also, China has been throwing matches for ever, even in single elimination format. In Athens two Chinese faced in the semis of the women's singles and the Chinese coach later admitted to having told the athletes in advance who of the two was supposed to win. If nothing else, the format just made it obvious that the Chinese team is willing to do that kind of thing.
On August 01 2012 21:43 Micket wrote: The decision is an absolute joke. Should football teams gets disqualified for putting a reserve team out? Should Usain Bolt be disqualified for jogging a 200m semi's heat and coming 2nd? Should swimmers be disqualified for not trying hard in a semi to conserve energy? An athlete shouldn't be forced to play in a situation where winning is disadvantageous, thats unfair on the athletes/
Apparantly. Better DQ Gold medal winner that ran or swam faster in finals than in semi finals. People came to watch good sport. Same in Starcraft. If a player shows his brilliant game winning build only in the final and not already in the Group stage against Nooby Mcnoobsen he should be DQed.
On August 01 2012 21:35 Telcontar wrote: Well, admittedly, I didn't watch the matches, so I guess they had to do something if it was so obvious. Still, all this could've easily been avoided had they not implemented such a stupid format. Lessons to be learned on all sides.
The same stupid format used in the FIFA world cup
China didn't want to play China, that doesn't happen in FIFA world cup.
You're right. But a team may want to avoid a better opponent. Same situation imo...
Not really, avoiding your own country means you can get double the medals....
I'm not trying to turn it into a debate but you guys aren't considering the other 3 pairs of players who also threw games. They weren't doing to "avoid" countrymen/women.
I actually like the format. Not really sure about double elimination knockout in badminton. But training for such an occasion and getting knocked out in the first round (and might have to be sent back home already) against a really top tier team isn't really nice as well..
On August 01 2012 21:50 Ghostcom wrote: About time BWF did this. China has been throwing/fixing the system for ages - and no matter how much you want to make this a parallel to a footballteam putting on the reserves it just isn't a correct parallel. Serving into the net 9 times in a row isn't a "bad day" or "conserving energy" it is blatantly throwing a game.
EDIT: With regards to the above. China could still have gotten 2 medals as whoever would have lost in the semis would've taken the bronze without a shadow of doubt.
On August 01 2012 21:50 Ghostcom wrote: About time BWF did this. China has been throwing/fixing the system for ages - and no matter how much you want to make this a parallel to a footballteam putting on the reserves it just isn't a correct parallel. Serving into the net 9 times in a row isn't a "bad day" or "conserving energy" it is blatantly throwing a game.
EDIT: With regards to the above. China could still have gotten 2 medals as whoever would have lost in the semis would've taken the bronze without a shadow of doubt.
weren't they going to meet in qtrs?
Danish media has said semis repeatedly, but I won't put it past them to have gotten it wrong, I'll check the grid when I get home from work
On August 01 2012 21:50 Ghostcom wrote: About time BWF did this. China has been throwing/fixing the system for ages - and no matter how much you want to make this a parallel to a footballteam putting on the reserves it just isn't a correct parallel. Serving into the net 9 times in a row isn't a "bad day" or "conserving energy" it is blatantly throwing a game.
EDIT: With regards to the above. China could still have gotten 2 medals as whoever would have lost in the semis would've taken the bronze without a shadow of doubt.
weren't they going to meet in qtrs?
Danish media has said semis repeatedly, but I won't put it past them to have gotten it wrong, I'll check the grid when I get home from work
i'm not sure myself, but i thought it was quarters. i shall check too
Their defeat meant Yu and Wang avoided playing fellow Chinese pair Tian Qing and Zhao Yunlei, who had finished second in Group D, in the quarter-finals which are due to be played later Wednesday.
So what happens to the tournament now? Since 4 teams were DQ'd they could take the remaining competitors and call it a semifinals, or they could bump up the next highest finishers in the group stage.
On August 01 2012 22:07 red4ce wrote: So what happens to the tournament now? Since 4 teams were DQ'd they could take the remaining competitors and call it a semifinals, or they could bump up the next highest finishers in the group stage.
i would like to know too. assuming its the latter?
On August 01 2012 21:44 Fenrax wrote: idiotic. "no there are no flaws in our system, our system works, it is good". And if you find flaws in it nonetheless, we justr ban you.
The format being flawed and the players being to blame are not mutually exclusive, though.
Agreed.
Yes, the format isn't ideal, and it could easily be fixed by randomizing the seeds after group stage. (and letting the top seeds of the groups play last wasn't such a bright idea either, I wonder who organizes such tournaments if I could do it better)
But no one who watched the game can pretend the code of conduct was not violated, it was blatantly obvious the players didn't give their best effort and thus violated the rules.
Disqualification is harsh, but can be justified.
I wonder if Wang/Yu are now mad at Tian/Zhao for losing to Denmark, which put them in the awkward position of wanting to lose in the first place.
On August 01 2012 21:50 Ghostcom wrote: About time BWF did this. China has been throwing/fixing the system for ages - and no matter how much you want to make this a parallel to a footballteam putting on the reserves it just isn't a correct parallel. Serving into the net 9 times in a row isn't a "bad day" or "conserving energy" it is blatantly throwing a game.
EDIT: With regards to the above. China could still have gotten 2 medals as whoever would have lost in the semis would've taken the bronze without a shadow of doubt.
weren't they going to meet in qtrs?
Danish media has said semis repeatedly, but I won't put it past them to have gotten it wrong, I'll check the grid when I get home from work
i'm not sure myself, but i thought it was quarters. i shall check too
Their defeat meant Yu and Wang avoided playing fellow Chinese pair Tian Qing and Zhao Yunlei, who had finished second in Group D, in the quarter-finals which are due to be played later Wednesday.
I don't mind the DQs for this event but badminton needs to gtfo of olympics until it has a format where winning matches doesn't decrease your chance of getting a medal. The 4 team coaches and the Australian couch (they interviewed that coach and she? said the system is quite broken) and countless previous ones all see the obvious reason why losing a game increases chance of getting a medal.
It's promoting corrupt competition. Just like how ice dancing was removed from winter olympics because their system was dysfunctional and cannot return as an olympic sport until sorted out.
They're not getting punished for throwing the match. They're getting punished for not doing a well enough job to hide the fact that they were throwing the match. If you're going to be an Olympian you need to learn how to make it look good when you throw a match and to know how far you can take it before you will be punished for your level of play. That's pretty much the only message that punishing the players sends.
it defeats the whole purpose of competition. By throwing games its not even a competition anymore. I for one disagree with these players by saying just play the fucking game instead of disgracing your country by not giving it 110% every match.
Then they wouldn't be giving the tournament 100%, because winning the single badminton game was making their chances of winning the tournament worse. The athletes were in a double-bind here, they had to choose whether to do what they had to do to win the tournament or to win the match. They couldn't do both at the same time. It was an unfair position for them to be in.
The tournament organisers shouldn't have put them in that position in the first place.
Sorry, but you have to try and win no matter who you face in the next round. Sometimes you get an unlucky draw but that is no excuse for throwing games. There is no justification for playing to lose during the Olympics.
On August 01 2012 21:50 Ghostcom wrote: About time BWF did this. China has been throwing/fixing the system for ages - and no matter how much you want to make this a parallel to a footballteam putting on the reserves it just isn't a correct parallel. Serving into the net 9 times in a row isn't a "bad day" or "conserving energy" it is blatantly throwing a game.
EDIT: With regards to the above. China could still have gotten 2 medals as whoever would have lost in the semis would've taken the bronze without a shadow of doubt.
weren't they going to meet in qtrs?
Danish media has said semis repeatedly, but I won't put it past them to have gotten it wrong, I'll check the grid when I get home from work
i'm not sure myself, but i thought it was quarters. i shall check too
Their defeat meant Yu and Wang avoided playing fellow Chinese pair Tian Qing and Zhao Yunlei, who had finished second in Group D, in the quarter-finals which are due to be played later Wednesday.
On August 01 2012 22:21 Louis8k8 wrote: I don't mind the DQs for this event but badminton needs to gtfo of olympics until it has a format where winning matches doesn't decrease your chance of getting a medal. The 4 team coaches and the Australian couch (they interviewed that coach and she? said the system is quite broken) and countless previous ones all see the obvious reason why losing a game increases chance of getting a medal.
It's promoting corrupt competition. Just like how ice dancing was removed from winter olympics because their system was dysfunctional and cannot return as an olympic sport until sorted out.
Nearly all major professional tournaments including the previous olympics use a single elimination format. Sometimes highly ranked players get seeds into later rounds but that's it. I have no idea why they switched to group stages this time around.
Those saying it increases their chance to win: Wth, where is the difference in meeting someone in the SF or finals? To win you have to beat them anyway.
On August 01 2012 21:43 Micket wrote: The decision is an absolute joke. Should football teams gets disqualified for putting a reserve team out? Should Usain Bolt be disqualified for jogging a 200m semi's heat and coming 2nd?
Should swimmers be disqualified for not trying hard in a semi to conserve energy? An athlete shouldn't be forced to play in a situation where winning is disadvantageous, thats unfair on the athletes/
swimmers and runners aren't gaming the system, whether they race for getting 1st or 8th in the overall semi they still race against the same opponents in the finals. those athletes are just trying to make it past a cut. the badmitton players are purposely playing inadequately in order to avoid one opponent for another in the next round. that's a different situation, and is unsportsmanlike. when you play in the olympics, you play in the olympic spirit of fair competition.
the organizers had a non-ideal format, but it's no excuse for players to take advantage of the system like that. like if you accidentally left your front door open one night, it doesn't give anyone the right to come in and rob you while you sleep just because the opportunity was there.
On August 01 2012 22:34 sharkie wrote: How can people condone any sort of match fixing?
Those saying it increases their chance to win: Wth, where is the difference in meeting someone in the SF or finals? To win you have to beat them anyway.
To maximise your chance of getting a medal (there ARE prizes for 2nd and 3rd, remember) you play the hardest dudes last.
On August 01 2012 22:21 Louis8k8 wrote: I don't mind the DQs for this event but badminton needs to gtfo of olympics until it has a format where winning matches doesn't decrease your chance of getting a medal. The 4 team coaches and the Australian couch (they interviewed that coach and she? said the system is quite broken) and countless previous ones all see the obvious reason why losing a game increases chance of getting a medal.
It's promoting corrupt competition. Just like how ice dancing was removed from winter olympics because their system was dysfunctional and cannot return as an olympic sport until sorted out.
Nearly all major professional tournaments including the previous olympics use a single elimination format. Sometimes highly ranked players get seeds into later rounds but that's it. I have no idea why they switched to group stages this time around.
Yes I was talking to some friends about it (they don't pay much attention to Olympics) and I realized that badminton is one of very few (the only one i can think of) with this kind of matching.
This only applies to 1 team vs 1 team games (which they wanted to a easy opponent in this case), where all of them are not taking place simultaneously (If it was simultaneous, you wouldn't know who's ranked high and who to avoid or who's easy).
They should have been seeded/placed the moment they qualified.
And this is nothing like a under-the-table match fixing that's so hated on. It's still technically match fixing but this wasn't a consensus where both teams agreed on the result with/without money involved.
DQ the players, but please fire the people who thought this format would be a good idea and never, ever hire them for anything again. That should show them a small fraction of what it feels to be DQ'd from a shot at getting a gold medal.
On August 01 2012 21:43 Micket wrote: The decision is an absolute joke. Should football teams gets disqualified for putting a reserve team out? Should Usain Bolt be disqualified for jogging a 200m semi's heat and coming 2nd?
Should swimmers be disqualified for not trying hard in a semi to conserve energy? An athlete shouldn't be forced to play in a situation where winning is disadvantageous, thats unfair on the athletes/
swimmers and runners aren't gaming the system, whether they race for getting 1st or 8th in the overall semi they still race against the same opponents in the finals. those athletes are just trying to make it past a cut. the badmitton players are purposely playing inadequately in order to avoid one opponent for another in the next round. that's a different situation, and is unsportsmanlike. when you play in the olympics, you play in the olympic spirit of fair competition.
the organizers had a non-ideal format, but it's no excuse for players to take advantage of the system like that. like if you accidentally left your front door open one night, it doesn't give anyone the right to come in and rob you while you sleep just because the opportunity was there.
So you say they should try their hardest to win, knowing they will be "punished" for it?
On August 01 2012 22:34 sharkie wrote: How can people condone any sort of match fixing?
Those saying it increases their chance to win: Wth, where is the difference in meeting someone in the SF or finals? To win you have to beat them anyway.
They do plan to win, but they want to take the safer road. If you were seeded Code S, the worst scenario is if your first elimination is against IMMVP and then he takes champion, you get kicked in ro8. You COULD be 2nd place, but you wont' know because the eventual champion destroyed you in the very beginning.
On August 01 2012 22:21 Louis8k8 wrote: I don't mind the DQs for this event but badminton needs to gtfo of olympics until it has a format where winning matches doesn't decrease your chance of getting a medal. The 4 team coaches and the Australian couch (they interviewed that coach and she? said the system is quite broken) and countless previous ones all see the obvious reason why losing a game increases chance of getting a medal.
It's promoting corrupt competition. Just like how ice dancing was removed from winter olympics because their system was dysfunctional and cannot return as an olympic sport until sorted out.
Nearly all major professional tournaments including the previous olympics use a single elimination format. Sometimes highly ranked players get seeds into later rounds but that's it. I have no idea why they switched to group stages this time around.
Yes I was talking to some friends about it (they don't pay much attention to Olympics) and I realized that badminton is one of very few (the only one i can think of) with this kind of matching.
This only applies to 1 team vs 1 team games (which they wanted to a easy opponent in this case), where all of them are not taking place simultaneously (If it was simultaneous, you wouldn't know who's ranked high and who to avoid or who's easy).
They should have been seeded/placed the moment they qualified.
And this is nothing like a under-the-table match fixing that's so hated on. It's still technically match fixing but this wasn't a consensus where both teams agreed on the result with/without money involved.
I believe beach volleyball also uses a group stage into elimination bracket format. I don't know if the games are played simultaneously or what other measures they use to prevent collusion since they, like badminton, allow 2 teams per country
And props to that Australian(?) team. The coach realized the system was broken but they didn't take that path of bad sportsmanship. (or they didn't play yet, I didn't watch it live)
ultra sad-face. i will never understand the mentality of these badminton players they have the ability to beat the best of the best, yet they'd rather avoid other great players and risk going down in history as cheaters in the largest international tournament.
honestly, i'd be so incredibly happy to simply get a chance to compete. throwing games is taking it to the next level of their professional careers.
On August 01 2012 22:21 Louis8k8 wrote: I don't mind the DQs for this event but badminton needs to gtfo of olympics until it has a format where winning matches doesn't decrease your chance of getting a medal. The 4 team coaches and the Australian couch (they interviewed that coach and she? said the system is quite broken) and countless previous ones all see the obvious reason why losing a game increases chance of getting a medal.
It's promoting corrupt competition. Just like how ice dancing was removed from winter olympics because their system was dysfunctional and cannot return as an olympic sport until sorted out.
Nearly all major professional tournaments including the previous olympics use a single elimination format. Sometimes highly ranked players get seeds into later rounds but that's it. I have no idea why they switched to group stages this time around.
Yes I was talking to some friends about it (they don't pay much attention to Olympics) and I realized that badminton is one of very few (the only one i can think of) with this kind of matching.
This only applies to 1 team vs 1 team games (which they wanted to a easy opponent in this case), where all of them are not taking place simultaneously (If it was simultaneous, you wouldn't know who's ranked high and who to avoid or who's easy).
They should have been seeded/placed the moment they qualified.
And this is nothing like a under-the-table match fixing that's so hated on. It's still technically match fixing but this wasn't a consensus where both teams agreed on the result with/without money involved.
I believe beach volleyball also uses a group stage into elimination bracket format. I don't know if the games are played simultaneously or what other measures they use to prevent collusion since they, like badminton, allow 2 teams per country
I'm quoting you because it brought up an idea, so I'm not actually speaking against what you said. But in a system like FIFA, you don't put Brazil and Italy together at the very start. You put the highest-ranked teams as far as possible. This was exactly the opposite. China didn't want to play the best ranked team, so they tried to perform badly. Why are the best teams put against each other for at the start of elimination? Any other system puts the best team against the worst team. They save the best for last.
If playing better means getting put against a weak opponent first, then everyone will race to be the best ranked team would they not? I hope beach volleyball wasn't as broken as badminton's. That simple setup (that maybe volleyball did have? I didn't watch qualifiers) also removes this flaw.
If BWF does not appeal their decision, then I will have to figure out what to do with those who had the DQ teams in their pick'em pools. Any advice and opinions are greatly welcomed
I don't get it... If they make it that easy to abuse their tournament format the people who came up with that shit should be DQed from their job, not the players who try to win the tournament.
On August 01 2012 22:21 Louis8k8 wrote: I don't mind the DQs for this event but badminton needs to gtfo of olympics until it has a format where winning matches doesn't decrease your chance of getting a medal. The 4 team coaches and the Australian couch (they interviewed that coach and she? said the system is quite broken) and countless previous ones all see the obvious reason why losing a game increases chance of getting a medal.
It's promoting corrupt competition. Just like how ice dancing was removed from winter olympics because their system was dysfunctional and cannot return as an olympic sport until sorted out.
Nearly all major professional tournaments including the previous olympics use a single elimination format. Sometimes highly ranked players get seeds into later rounds but that's it. I have no idea why they switched to group stages this time around.
Yes I was talking to some friends about it (they don't pay much attention to Olympics) and I realized that badminton is one of very few (the only one i can think of) with this kind of matching.
This only applies to 1 team vs 1 team games (which they wanted to a easy opponent in this case), where all of them are not taking place simultaneously (If it was simultaneous, you wouldn't know who's ranked high and who to avoid or who's easy).
They should have been seeded/placed the moment they qualified.
And this is nothing like a under-the-table match fixing that's so hated on. It's still technically match fixing but this wasn't a consensus where both teams agreed on the result with/without money involved.
I believe beach volleyball also uses a group stage into elimination bracket format. I don't know if the games are played simultaneously or what other measures they use to prevent collusion since they, like badminton, allow 2 teams per country
I'm quoting you because it brought up an idea, so I'm not actually speaking against what you said. But in a system like FIFA, you don't put Brazil and Italy together at the very start. You put the highest-ranked teams as far as possible. This was exactly the opposite. China didn't want to play the best ranked team, so they tried to perform badly. Why are the best teams put against each other for at the start of elimination? Any other system puts the best team against the worst team. They save the best for last.
If playing better means getting put against a weak opponent first, then everyone will race to be the best ranked team would they not? I hope beach volleyball wasn't as broken as badminton's. That simple setup (that maybe volleyball did have? I didn't watch qualifiers) also removes this flaw.
The second ranked Chinese team got upset by a lower seed. The "higher" seed on the other side would've gotten a tougher opponent.
I don't get the outrage here about the format, really. Just about all team leagues from FIFA, NBA, MLB, etc. use a round robin format. Teams tank games to get better seeding or draft picks but they don't do it this blatantly. There's a difference between playing your bench versus having your players repeatedly throwing the ball out of bounds.
On August 01 2012 22:21 Louis8k8 wrote: I don't mind the DQs for this event but badminton needs to gtfo of olympics until it has a format where winning matches doesn't decrease your chance of getting a medal. The 4 team coaches and the Australian couch (they interviewed that coach and she? said the system is quite broken) and countless previous ones all see the obvious reason why losing a game increases chance of getting a medal.
It's promoting corrupt competition. Just like how ice dancing was removed from winter olympics because their system was dysfunctional and cannot return as an olympic sport until sorted out.
Nearly all major professional tournaments including the previous olympics use a single elimination format. Sometimes highly ranked players get seeds into later rounds but that's it. I have no idea why they switched to group stages this time around.
Yes I was talking to some friends about it (they don't pay much attention to Olympics) and I realized that badminton is one of very few (the only one i can think of) with this kind of matching.
This only applies to 1 team vs 1 team games (which they wanted to a easy opponent in this case), where all of them are not taking place simultaneously (If it was simultaneous, you wouldn't know who's ranked high and who to avoid or who's easy).
They should have been seeded/placed the moment they qualified.
And this is nothing like a under-the-table match fixing that's so hated on. It's still technically match fixing but this wasn't a consensus where both teams agreed on the result with/without money involved.
I believe beach volleyball also uses a group stage into elimination bracket format. I don't know if the games are played simultaneously or what other measures they use to prevent collusion since they, like badminton, allow 2 teams per country
I'm quoting you because it brought up an idea, so I'm not actually speaking against what you said. But in a system like FIFA, you don't put Brazil and Italy together at the very start. You put the highest-ranked teams as far as possible. This was exactly the opposite. China didn't want to play the best ranked team, so they tried to perform badly. Why are the best teams put against each other for at the start of elimination? Any other system puts the best team against the worst team. They save the best for last.
If playing better means getting put against a weak opponent first, then everyone will race to be the best ranked team would they not? I hope beach volleyball wasn't as broken as badminton's. That simple setup (that maybe volleyball did have? I didn't watch qualifiers) also removes this flaw.
The second ranked Chinese team got upset by a lower seed. The "higher" seed on the other side would've gotten a tougher opponent.
I don't get the outrage here about the format, really. Just about all team leagues from FIFA, NBA, MLB, etc. use a round robin format. Teams tank games to get better seeding or draft picks but they don't do it this blatantly. There's a difference between playing your bench versus having your players repeatedly throwing the ball out of bounds.
In the end it's the same though, you'll have a lower quality game. The only difference is that the badminton doubles don't have a bench.
On August 01 2012 22:21 Louis8k8 wrote: I don't mind the DQs for this event but badminton needs to gtfo of olympics until it has a format where winning matches doesn't decrease your chance of getting a medal. The 4 team coaches and the Australian couch (they interviewed that coach and she? said the system is quite broken) and countless previous ones all see the obvious reason why losing a game increases chance of getting a medal.
It's promoting corrupt competition. Just like how ice dancing was removed from winter olympics because their system was dysfunctional and cannot return as an olympic sport until sorted out.
Nearly all major professional tournaments including the previous olympics use a single elimination format. Sometimes highly ranked players get seeds into later rounds but that's it. I have no idea why they switched to group stages this time around.
Yes I was talking to some friends about it (they don't pay much attention to Olympics) and I realized that badminton is one of very few (the only one i can think of) with this kind of matching.
This only applies to 1 team vs 1 team games (which they wanted to a easy opponent in this case), where all of them are not taking place simultaneously (If it was simultaneous, you wouldn't know who's ranked high and who to avoid or who's easy).
They should have been seeded/placed the moment they qualified.
And this is nothing like a under-the-table match fixing that's so hated on. It's still technically match fixing but this wasn't a consensus where both teams agreed on the result with/without money involved.
I believe beach volleyball also uses a group stage into elimination bracket format. I don't know if the games are played simultaneously or what other measures they use to prevent collusion since they, like badminton, allow 2 teams per country
I'm quoting you because it brought up an idea, so I'm not actually speaking against what you said. But in a system like FIFA, you don't put Brazil and Italy together at the very start. You put the highest-ranked teams as far as possible. This was exactly the opposite. China didn't want to play the best ranked team, so they tried to perform badly. Why are the best teams put against each other for at the start of elimination? Any other system puts the best team against the worst team. They save the best for last.
If playing better means getting put against a weak opponent first, then everyone will race to be the best ranked team would they not? I hope beach volleyball wasn't as broken as badminton's. That simple setup (that maybe volleyball did have? I didn't watch qualifiers) also removes this flaw.
The second ranked Chinese team got upset by a lower seed. The "higher" seed on the other side would've gotten a tougher opponent.
I don't get the outrage here about the format, really. Just about all team leagues from FIFA, NBA, MLB, etc. use a round robin format. Teams tank games to get better seeding or draft picks but they don't do it this blatantly. There's a difference between playing your bench versus having your players repeatedly throwing the ball out of bounds.
In the end it's the same though, you'll have a lower quality game. The only difference is that the badminton doubles don't have a bench.
There is still a difference to the spectators, though. They could still play a vanilla game where they don't do anything special or don't go all out. Playing so badly that some scrub off the street can beat you is another thing entirely.
Can't blame the players at all. It's the system they use that doesn't work for the olympics that's all. These players get a chance to play every 4th fucking year, who the hell wouldn't try to gain every advantage possible?
People who claim "but you will still have to beat them to win later".. The difference is if you face them in the final instead you get a silver, if you face them in the quarter you are out and win nothing. This type of thing happens in every sport in every tournament. It's just dumb old men who run this thing poorly. Badminton is the only racket sport who does group stages.. and of course it causes problem only for Badminton. Just look at the table tennis tournament, play to win every game or you are out.
On August 01 2012 23:48 andrewlt wrote: There is still a difference to the spectators, though. They could still play a vanilla game where they don't do anything special or don't go all out. Playing so badly that some scrub off the street can beat you is another thing entirely.
Not possible here, Both teams had an incentive to lose. This wasn't even like Naniwa/NesTea, where the result of the game didn't matter at all, this was a case where even a token attempt to get a point could have turned into a victory for your team in the match, and a resulting early loss in the tournament proper.
On August 01 2012 23:49 DwD wrote: Can't blame the players at all. It's the system they use that doesn't work for the olympics that's all. These players get a chance to play every 4th fucking year, who the hell wouldn't try to gain every advantage possible?
People who claim "but you will still have to beat them to win later".. The difference is if you face them in the final instead you get a silver, if you face them in the quarter you are out and win nothing. This type of thing happens in every sport in every tournament. It's just dumb old men who run this thing poorly. Badminton is the only racket sport who does group stages.. and of course it causes problem only for Badminton. Just look at the table tennis tournament, play to win every game or you are out.
This was the first year that they had group stages for Badminton. I believe that the old geezers wanted to give fans opportunities for upset, but they forget that each player's goal is to win the entire event. Bracket fixing is necessary in their eyes if that advances their goals. I still am outraged by the fact that this happened to begin with, as it tarnishes badminton's reputation. Hopefully, the rest of the event will go smoothly.
On August 01 2012 23:49 DwD wrote: Can't blame the players at all. It's the system they use that doesn't work for the olympics that's all. These players get a chance to play every 4th fucking year, who the hell wouldn't try to gain every advantage possible?
People who claim "but you will still have to beat them to win later".. The difference is if you face them in the final instead you get a silver, if you face them in the quarter you are out and win nothing. This type of thing happens in every sport in every tournament. It's just dumb old men who run this thing poorly. Badminton is the only racket sport who does group stages.. and of course it causes problem only for Badminton. Just look at the table tennis tournament, play to win every game or you are out.
A group stage poses no problem at all if the tournament is set up correctly, which it wasn't. Just do a Champions League style draw after the group stages and everything is fine.
By the way, at least for the Chinese team it wasn't about getting an immediate advantage in the quarter finals but about preserving the chance to get both gold and silver as opposed to gold and bronze for China.
The format is far from perfect but if you throw a game in the Olympics it is a direct violation of the olympic spirit and thus you deserve to get disqualified. Justice has been served imo.
On August 02 2012 00:22 DaCruise wrote: The format is far from perfect but if you throw a game in the Olympics it is a direct violation of the olympic spirit and thus you deserve to get disqualified. Justice has been served imo.
What is this 'olympic spirit' exactly? Is it that you, as a competitor, ought to try to win the tournament, except when the tournament is broken so that your optimal strategy looks really bad for the spectators, in which case you try hard to win the individual game (or at least try to look like you're trying hard), whilst really hoping that you lose in order to get a better shot at winning the tournament everyone claims they want you to try to win?
This "Olympic spirit" strikes me as being dishonest, hypocritical claptrap, if you ask me.
I understand why the women did what they did as the tournament setup created a silly situation, but they were quite dumb to do it so fragrantly. They were so obviously throwing the game that it was kind of insulting to the BWF and IOC. Then all the women were into it, like a big joke they were playing. I do think that if they used more subtlety the disqualification would not have happened.
This is quite unfortunate for the women's event though. Looking at the world rankings only 3 of the 8 top ranked women pairs in world are in the quarter finals of the Olympics (3 out from the disqualification, 2 for being Chinese and not in the top 2).
It is a dumb tournament that makes losing a better option than winning. BUT that doesn't make it ok to throw games in an Olympic final with tons of people watching live.
I do feel sorry for the Koreans though, they got dragged down into this mess when they weren't really the first culprits. What they SHOULD have done is beaten the Chinese by a ridiculous score and then complained later.
On August 02 2012 00:41 Klive5ive wrote: It is a dumb tournament that makes losing a better option than winning. BUT that doesn't make it ok to throw games in an Olympic final with tons of people watching live.
I do feel sorry for the Koreans though, they got dragged down into this mess when they weren't really the first culprits. What they SHOULD have done is beaten the Chinese by a ridiculous score and then complained later.
The Koreans were trying to throw the game too, but the Chinese were better at both losing AND winning badminton than they were
On August 02 2012 00:41 zylog wrote: I understand why the women did what they did as the tournament setup created a silly situation, but they were quite dumb to do it so fragrantly. They were so obviously throwing the game that it was kind of insulting to the BWF and IOC. Then all the women were into it, like a big joke they were playing. I do think that if they used more subtlety the disqualification would not have happened.
This is quite unfortunate for the women's event though. Looking at the world rankings only 3 of the 8 top ranked women pairs in world are in the quarter finals of the Olympics (3 out from the disqualification, 2 for being Chinese and not in the top 2).
I know this is just a typo and I do this all the time but I wanted to point out how humorous this statement is
Throwing matches reeks of poor sportsmanship. It just stinks!
Throwing a game is a poor way to represent your country regardless of it giving you the best chance to win the tournament. I agree with the disqualification.
The IOC made a mistake with setting up the tournament in this manner, but this reaction is by far the poorest the athletes could have.
Honestly, South Korea could have just played normally then request an investigation into this matter since South Korea would come out ahead of that debacle.
On August 02 2012 00:22 DaCruise wrote: The format is far from perfect but if you throw a game in the Olympics it is a direct violation of the olympic spirit and thus you deserve to get disqualified. Justice has been served imo.
What is this 'olympic spirit' exactly? Is it that you, as a competitor, ought to try to win the tournament, except when the tournament is broken so that your optimal strategy looks really bad for the spectators, in which case you try hard to win the individual game (or at least try to look like you're trying hard), whilst really hoping that you lose in order to get a better shot at winning the tournament everyone claims they want you to try to win?
This "Olympic spirit" strikes me as being dishonest, hypocritical claptrap, if you ask me.
It's not spirit, it's an oath taken at the olympic ceremony for all athletes to adhere to fairplay and sportsmanship during the Games. Whether the bracket itself was at fault is completely irrelevant as they broke the oath taken, an oath which emphasises the key principles of the Games.
Terrible disqualification, yeah it sucks that teams are losing on purpose but on the flip side they are trying as hard as they can to win the whole thing. Don't blame players for trying their best to win and definitely don't dq them for it. Lose the battle win the war scenario, except the battle was given away.
Also, the second dq really sucks cause winner has to play the first team that obviously threw so it would be idiotic to not thow.
I cant believe when they installed the shitty group stages they didnt believe that no one would try and throw...
I don't get it. People throw ALL THE TIME in various group stages to get a better draw. I don't see why "sportsmanship and fairplay" precludes doing something smart, but thats just me
on top of that its retarded to force two teams of the same country to fight in the quarters when they are both gold medal contenders and then pretend that there is not strong incentive to avoid it
i mean at a given point, fuck "olympic spirit" someone messed up making the rules. there is throwing a major match for match fixing and then there's throwing to get a better draw. i think the latter is reasonable and if the olympics dont want it, fix the rules. stop baiting players
On August 02 2012 01:13 CeriseCherries wrote: I cant believe when they installed the shitty group stages they didnt believe that no one would try and throw...
I don't get it. People throw ALL THE TIME in various group stages to get a better draw. I don't see why "sportsmanship and fairplay" precludes doing something smart, but thats just me
on top of that its retarded to force two teams of the same country to fight in the quarters when they are both gold medal contenders and then pretend that there is not strong incentive to avoid it
i mean at a given point, fuck "olympic spirit" someone messed up making the rules. there is throwing a major match for match fixing and then there's throwing to get a better draw. i think the latter is reasonable and if the olympics dont want it, fix the rules. stop baiting players
rules are fine. They should have just redrawn the brackets chamion league style where no one knows who plays who.
I think all the people who are defending these players actions, truly don't understand what the Olympics are for. It's about competition, and proving yourself to the fucking world. You just make yourself look like a fucking dumbass by doing this sort of thing. You also look like less of an athlete, and you're ruining the sport.
It blows my mind that a tournament at the Olympics could be configured so poorly. I would expect this at my local rec center, but at the premiere sporting event in the world?
It's not spirit, it's an oath taken at the olympic ceremony for all athletes to adhere to fairplay and sportsmanship during the Games. Whether the bracket itself was at fault is completely irrelevant as they broke the oath taken, an oath which emphasises the key principles of the Games.
Rubbish.
That oath says nothing at all about the sort of situation we're talking about here, mostly because it says nearly nothing at all Words like 'Sportsmanship' and 'fair play' and 'glory' and 'honour' are vague enough to mean almost anything the speaker or hearer wants them to mean.(The oath is only clear on the subject of drugs, which isn't relevant here). I don't think it's unsportsmanlike or unfair to attempt to make a good faith effort to win a badly-designed tournament, even if it's by using ugly methods like this. Nobody with any sense thinks that these badminton players would be making a good faith effort to win games when it actively hurt their chances at an Olympic medal.
You guys seem to think these athletes ought to be bullied into either being lying hypocrites or into actively trying hard to lose the tournament they're ostensibly trying to win., in the name of 'sportsmanship' or 'fair play'. It makes no sense.
On August 02 2012 01:32 GrimmJ wrote: I think all the people who are defending these players actions, truly don't understand what the Olympics are for. It's about competition, and proving yourself to the fucking world. You just make yourself look like a fucking dumbass by doing this sort of thing. You also look like less of an athlete, and you're ruining the sport.
Ban hammer well used.
The Olympics is about motivating yourself to play your best in a match that you actually want to lose? I don't want to see a fake match as a spectator. We have WWE for that. At least when they're actively throwing I can switch to a different channel. The tournament setup is the main fault.
On August 02 2012 01:32 GrimmJ wrote: I think all the people who are defending these players actions, truly don't understand what the Olympics are for. It's about competition, and proving yourself to the fucking world. You just make yourself look like a fucking dumbass by doing this sort of thing. You also look like less of an athlete, and you're ruining the sport.
Ban hammer well used.
The Olympics is about motivating yourself to play your best in a match that you actually want to lose? I don't want to see a fake match as a spectator. We have WWE for that. At least when they're actively throwing I can switch to a different channel. The tournament setup is the main fault.
What's your question? Yes, play your best every time even if you see a loss being more beneficial.
On August 02 2012 01:32 GrimmJ wrote: I think all the people who are defending these players actions, truly don't understand what the Olympics are for. It's about competition, and proving yourself to the fucking world. You just make yourself look like a fucking dumbass by doing this sort of thing. You also look like less of an athlete, and you're ruining the sport.
Ban hammer well used.
The Olympics is about motivating yourself to play your best in a match that you actually want to lose? I don't want to see a fake match as a spectator. We have WWE for that. At least when they're actively throwing I can switch to a different channel. The tournament setup is the main fault.
What's your question? Yes, play your best every time even if you see a loss being more beneficial.
That's like saying swimmers and runners should go 100% on qualifying heats even if it hurts them because they're spent from wining the qualis instead of just taking third and then get 8th in the run/swim that decides the medals. Getting second in a qualifying heat (i.e. not winning it) is no different than losing qualifying group stage game.
Actually it is different because the swimmers don't usually know what is needed to place.. they still have to put in a good effort (especially those in the first heats where no qualification line has yet been drawn) and it is up to them to gauge how much effort to put in to get far enough. Those badminton players just threw the games... there was no effort put into those matches and even if you are drawing a parallel between the two.. what happens when you put in no effort into swimming your heat? you don't place into the finals..
On August 02 2012 01:32 GrimmJ wrote: I think all the people who are defending these players actions, truly don't understand what the Olympics are for. It's about competition, and proving yourself to the fucking world. You just make yourself look like a fucking dumbass by doing this sort of thing. You also look like less of an athlete, and you're ruining the sport.
Ban hammer well used.
The Olympics is about motivating yourself to play your best in a match that you actually want to lose? I don't want to see a fake match as a spectator. We have WWE for that. At least when they're actively throwing I can switch to a different channel. The tournament setup is the main fault.
i don't get why people deliberately ignore the fact they broke explicit rules. doesn't matter what the reason is, you don't justify breaking rules and expect no repercussion on the grounds of a "shitty format" which were ironically decided on by the BWF which china, korea were all a part of.
On August 02 2012 02:53 Niflheim wrote: Actually it is different because the swimmers don't usually know what is needed to place.. they still have to put in a good effort (especially those in the first heats where no qualification line has yet been drawn) and it is up to them to gauge how much effort to put in to get far enough. Those badminton players just threw the games... there was no effort put into those matches and even if you are drawing a parallel between the two.. what happens when you put in no effort into swimming your heat? you don't place into the finals..
It's not no effort, there is no difference because in qualifying round you just have to do enough. In swimming and running enough is a time, it's usually not the optimal time where you try 100% and go all out, it's up to you to gauge how hard you try. In badminton enough is a number of wins, they've won enough in the qualifying rounds. If you work really hard for the first 150m and on the turn you see your 1.5 seconds ahead then for the final 50m you're gonna start taking it easy, and if while taking it easy you give up the lead to a sprinter then so be it. You're still consciously trying to not win the heat by going slower than your opponents because you've already worked hard for a good time. If you win the first 2 games of your group then you can take it easy the last game. The only difference is that it's obvious to "normal" viewers that the badminton duo threw while not as obvious that a swimmer didn't win his heat on purpose, it just looks like the second/third place guy was catching up. What the olympics are punishing is the obviousness of the throw, which I don't think should warrant a dq at least not for the reason it's against the spirit of the games when other sports do this blatantly but definitely warnings.
Anyways, arguing this is kinda derailing, kinda like arguing the naniwa's probe rush and detracting from a good men's quarterfinals. Was very close for the first 15 points but it's opening up now, zwibeler looks like he's just downright tired, took a lot of breaks in the first 10 pts.
On August 02 2012 02:58 Nos- wrote: Not sure what happened the last point, I think Chen complains that Zwiebler reached over the net to block that shot?
Edit: oh shit I'm a dragoon now, hopefully I still remember how to walk properly.
Grats dude! The tip was too much over. I did the same thing at Pan Am games in 2004 and it got me a red card 0.o
Chen's cross smashes are surgical and Zwiebler looks completely worn out. Chen is running away with this game and there looks to be little hope for the German player.
I think people are really saying the format is the most at fault. Of course the players aren't excused, they are at fault as well. I tend to agree with that. Have you tried your best at something knowing that it's best you fail or lose? It basically is impossible to give 100% even if you told yourself to do so. So even if all those teams actually tried to try their best, we would've still seen a crap game. That is why the format is the biggest problem. Still, though, players should have tried their best and they didn't. So they are at fault as well, and should surely be responsible. The small injustice (and I emphasize "small") here is that the players were driven to do what they did by a faulty system, and ended up being disqualified for it.
Chen with an absolutely stunning cross drop shot, even Zwiebler is impressed as he goes for a handshake with the Chinese player. The score is now 19-9.
Edit: Zwiebler with a clear that is far too wide, the bird is out and Chen wins the third set and the match.
Holy crap, Canada is in the semi finals for women's double O.o never thought this would happen haha (of course we got lucky with the DQ of all the top pairs, but still)
On August 02 2012 03:15 Sigh wrote: Holy crap, Canada is in the semi finals for women's double O.o never thought this would happen haha (of course we got lucky with the DQ of all the top pairs, but still)
Man that was horrible watching her try to force herself to play through the injury. Looks like an ACL injury from the way her leg collapsed, she does not need to injure it further as she'll have many years of playing ahead of her. Good for Park Joo Bong to put an end to that.
On August 02 2012 04:07 zylog wrote: Man that was horrible watching her try to force herself to play through the injury. Looks like an ACL injury from the way her leg collapsed, she does not need to injure it further as she'll have many years of playing ahead of her. Good for Park Joo Bong to put an end to that.
I seriously hope she didn't tear it. I tore my ACL and it took me 2 years to even begin playing badminton again T_T
On August 02 2012 03:58 amazingxkcd wrote: Baun gets a game win and will advance
Fixed it for you - she isn't German you know :p
Oh and I really think we could all learn something from Tine. Sports are played by real people! This is probably one of the strongest images from the Olympics 2012 and just like the rower from Niger definitely one of the moments I will remember this Olympics for:
On August 02 2012 03:58 amazingxkcd wrote: Baun gets a game win and will advance
Fixed it for you - she isn't German you know :p
Oh and I really think we could all learn something from Tine. Sports are played by real people! This is probably one of the strongest images from the Olympics 2012 and just like the rower from Niger definitely one of the moments I will remember this Olympics for:
On August 02 2012 21:59 SpiffD wrote: I'm so mad right now.... fucking china.
EDIT: and now we're going to see a terribly boring china china finals where who's going to win has already been decided.
That's not fair, China has no reason to favour one pair or another as both gold and silver are already a lock. I'm such each pair wants to win very badly and will go all out to win it.
On August 02 2012 21:59 SpiffD wrote: I'm so mad right now.... fucking china.
EDIT: and now we're going to see a terribly boring china china finals where who's going to win has already been decided.
Theres really no point in them fixing the finals. Its all about the country's total medal count and neither side needs to conserve stamina cause its the finals.
From interviews with regards to the match fixing scandal, the Danish players, who I believe to be far more into this kinda thing than you guys, said that it was common among the Chinese to fix matches like this so that the player/team who was regarded most favorably was given the victory.
On August 02 2012 22:30 SpiffD wrote: From interviews with regards to the match fixing scandal, the Danish players, who I believe to be far more into this kinda thing than you guys, said that it was common among the Chinese to fix matches like this so that the player/team who was regarded most favorably was given the victory.
The situations they're referring to are different. For instance, in 2000's semi between Gong Zhichao and Ye Yhaoying, it's rumored that Ye was told to lose to Gong because Gong Zhichao's playstyle matched up favourably against Camilla Martin, who eventually won the silver. The same thing occured in 2004, with Zhou Mi losing to Zhang Ning in the semifinals because Zhang would be stronger against Mia Audina in the finals. Zhou later left the Chinese team to play for Hong Kong.
Also, I believe that in previous Olympics a top 5 world ranking was required in order to qualify a third competitor for the Olympics. So you'd have situations where Lin Dan would play unusually poorly against his 3rd ranked teammates in superseries tournaments during Olympic years.
For the above, it is understandable why they do what they do. It demonstrates that they value team success over individual success. They are aiming to win the gold, then sweep all the medals if possible. However, in this situation, the gold medal is already won for China, there's nothing else to build towards. I see absolutely no reason for any match fixing to go on in the mixed doubles finals. Both Chinese pairs played well to come back from being down 1 game, and have to give them some respect for that.
Badminton Ro8 coming up in 15mins.. Gade and LCW's games going on at the same time will be watching the Gade game though, would be surprising if LCW didn't beat that indian dude with ease.
On August 03 2012 00:47 keit wrote: Badminton Ro8 coming up in 15mins.. Gade and LCW's games going on at the same time will be watching the Gade game though, would be surprising if LCW didn't beat that indian dude with ease.
On August 03 2012 01:20 Kipsate wrote: that indian dude is 15-15 first set so far, not bad.
Gade putting up a pretty good fight.
LCW takes it 21-19 first set.
I dont know if hes trying to keep the weight of and preserve the ankles or what but hes playing so flat and slow. Hes turned it on for like 2 or 3 points at the end of that set.
On August 03 2012 01:20 Kipsate wrote: that indian dude is 15-15 first set so far, not bad.
Gade putting up a pretty good fight.
LCW takes it 21-19 first set.
I dont know if hes trying to keep the weight of and preserve the ankles or what but hes playing so flat and slow. Hes turned it on for like 2 or 3 points at the end of that set.
I think he was playing for longer game, cause looking at game 2 Kashypp is already tired
On August 03 2012 01:48 amazingxkcd wrote: LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE CCCCCCHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGG WWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YESSSSSSSSSS he played well . LEE CHONG WEI <3 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On August 03 2012 03:09 Kipsate wrote: Lin Dan turning bossmode on for game 3, Chen and Lee having a pretty close game.
or mb not bossmode.
Yea the 2 Japs, Sasaki and Tago are like slightly younger versions of how Hidayat used to be at his peak. Good power,can construct points. They dont pace themselves very well though. Lin Dan just to solid and to much ease when he has to rip it.
On August 03 2012 04:55 Redmark wrote: How much of an advantage does height give you in badminton? Seems like it would be a huge factor, like basketball huge.
its useful if you can move well, but at the highest level just having range and wingspan in itself isnt particularly useful.
It's not nearly as useful as in basketball. In basketball, you're fighting to reach the ball first. The net is ridiculously high compared to how high a person's hand can reach with their feet off the ground. In badminton, your opponent isn't standing on your side of the net. You can always wait until the shuttle falls to a reachable height. The net isn't that high for smashing either. You just have to be above average to smash with a jump. Don't forget the racket is a huge arm extension.
Reaction time and arm control is a lot more important, like other racquet sports.
--- CANAAAAADAAA WHYYYYY ;____; I'm so sad. I don't feel like working anymore today..
I have a question who knows of any links or streams to watch past events I am desperately trying to find the Canadian semi finals vs the Japanese as I heavily support BRUCE LI. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
On August 03 2012 14:03 SniperVul5 wrote: I have a question who knows of any links or streams to watch past events I am desperately trying to find the Canadian semi finals vs the Japanese as I heavily support BRUCE LI. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
get UK vpn (something like expat shield), go to BBC iplayer and you can get basically all the VODs of all events
well it's china 1-2 for women's singles. looking good
On August 03 2012 14:03 SniperVul5 wrote: I have a question who knows of any links or streams to watch past events I am desperately trying to find the Canadian semi finals vs the Japanese as I heavily support BRUCE LI. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
On August 03 2012 05:07 Louis8k8 wrote: It's not nearly as useful as in basketball. In basketball, you're fighting to reach the ball first. The net is ridiculously high compared to how high a person's hand can reach with their feet off the ground. In badminton, your opponent isn't standing on your side of the net. You can always wait until the shuttle falls to a reachable height. The net isn't that high for smashing either. You just have to be above average to smash with a jump. Don't forget the racket is a huge arm extension.
Reaction time and arm control is a lot more important, like other racquet sports.
I would say being taller gives you a slight advantage to smash the shuttle as soon as possible and to smash from deep in the court, as well as have an easier time to control your smash angle, even if most of player at international level jump ridiculously high. Also I do think it is easier (by a small margin) for a tall player to reach some hard shuttle when late on the court, and to defend at least in simple ; in double being tall is not as useful.
Also, you won't find many players under 185 centimeters in simple, and in my opinion that is a bit telling, except if by "being tall" you mean 195-++cm, in which case those players are rare because of the body speed required to perform at this level.
The Danes just won Bronze, to me they really were the second best Mixed Double of the tournament. I can't see Xu/Ma having a chance in the finals, but maybe I am wrong.
On August 03 2012 19:55 keioh wrote: Also, you won't find many players under 185 centimeters in simple, and in my opinion that is a bit telling, except if by "being tall" you mean 195-++cm, in which case those players are rare because of the body speed required to perform at this level.
??? Maybe I am misunderstanding you but of the top players in this tournament only Chen Long is taller than 185cm.
On August 03 2012 14:03 SniperVul5 wrote: I have a question who knows of any links or streams to watch past events I am desperately trying to find the Canadian semi finals vs the Japanese as I heavily support BRUCE LI. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
get UK vpn (something like expat shield), go to BBC iplayer and you can get basically all the VODs of all events
well it's china 1-2 for women's singles. looking good
BBC sport is better if you want to watch anything from the same day, it shows virtually every sport. Iplayer is just featured programmes.
On August 03 2012 19:55 keioh wrote: Also, you won't find many players under 185 centimeters in simple, and in my opinion that is a bit telling, except if by "being tall" you mean 195-++cm, in which case those players are rare because of the body speed required to perform at this level.
??? Maybe I am misunderstanding you but of the top players in this tournament only Chen Long is taller than 185cm.
Well I admit I didn't verify, but looking at the players in action I was quite sure they were taller than me and I am 180 cm tall ; I was also pretty sure they were all at 185, Chen Long looking 193 or so ; this may be just my impression.
At least I am quite sure you won't find many players under 180, which is the upper born for the average male size iirc, so top players should be considered tall by normal criteria, maybe not by sportive criteria.
On August 03 2012 19:55 keioh wrote: Also, you won't find many players under 185 centimeters in simple, and in my opinion that is a bit telling, except if by "being tall" you mean 195-++cm, in which case those players are rare because of the body speed required to perform at this level.
??? Maybe I am misunderstanding you but of the top players in this tournament only Chen Long is taller than 185cm.
Well I admit I didn't verify, but looking at the players in action I was quite sure they were taller than me and I am 180 cm tall ; I was also pretty sure they were all at 185, Chen Long looking 193 or so ; this may be just my impression.
At least I am quite sure you won't find many players under 180, which is the upper born for the average male size iirc, so top players should be considered tall by normal criteria, maybe not by sportive criteria.
On August 03 2012 19:55 keioh wrote: Also, you won't find many players under 185 centimeters in simple, and in my opinion that is a bit telling, except if by "being tall" you mean 195-++cm, in which case those players are rare because of the body speed required to perform at this level.
??? Maybe I am misunderstanding you but of the top players in this tournament only Chen Long is taller than 185cm.
Well I admit I didn't verify, but looking at the players in action I was quite sure they were taller than me and I am 180 cm tall ; I was also pretty sure they were all at 185, Chen Long looking 193 or so ; this may be just my impression.
At least I am quite sure you won't find many players under 180, which is the upper born for the average male size iirc, so top players should be considered tall by normal criteria, maybe not by sportive criteria.
Well, of the top 8 in the men's singles 5 are shorter than 180 cm so I would say your impression was a little off. I'll admit though they seem taller because the court looks so small when they move as well as they do.
On August 03 2012 22:27 Doraemon wrote: wow. LCW so good. haven't seen the chinese lose for a while
I really hope he gets the gold this time. So heartbreaking to see him lose every single time to Lin Dan.
This is it for him, I really hope he turns on the heat when he (presumably) plays Lin Dan, he's been beating himself with all the pressure hes put himself under.
LIN DAN TAKES IT!!!!!! IT WILL BE SUPER DAN AND LEE CHONG WEI FOR REPEAT FINALS OF BEJING 2008! THIS WILL BE THE GREATEST SINGLES FINALS EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DO NOT MISS IT!!!!
On August 03 2012 21:14 Maenander wrote: The Danes just won Bronze, to me they really were the second best Mixed Double of the tournament. I can't see Xu/Ma having a chance in the finals, but maybe I am wrong.
On August 04 2012 00:12 amazingxkcd wrote: Zhang THROWS HIS SHOES TO THE CROWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
I'd rather have one of his rackets tbh ^^
no way. Those shoes are worth at least $500.
That might be true, but the racket I would use myself, how big are the chances his shoes fit?
looks like size 13 (Which is my size). Besides, anyone can get those rackets, but only the Chinese national team gets those shoes....
are you sure about that? they would surely be best sellers
There are 3 types of shoes for any given models. There are the commerical versions, which is the normal shoes you buy in stores, then there are the level 2 shoes which are made with better quality and given to sponsored players and those with connections. My coach had these shoes and the only way he got them was because he had connections with the Yonex distributor in LA. Then theres the top of line, level 3 shoes which are reserved for a couple of national teams only. These are made of the best quality handpicked, and are fucking exspensive. For example, Japan shoes are these level 3 shoes from Yonex. They can go for like $500-$600. For Li Ning, AFAIK China also has Level 3 shoes ofc, but you cannot even get access to those shoes unless you are actually on the Chinese national squad. For the Chinese Junior National squad, they are sponsored by Kelson and you cannot get their shoes either unless you are on the team. The chinese team members don't sell those shoes ever. So for Zhang to throw those shoes away is a big moment for the guy who got it, assuming he knows how much those are worth...
On August 04 2012 07:34 crc wrote: Hi guys, what time is the men's badminton finals on?
depends what region? it's on tomorrow, i think 1pm london time
also i'm looking to get some grip for my racquets, i want something really soft as the current (original) grips gives me blisters after long sessions, any recommendations?
Well, that sucks for both of them. Wang Xin looks like she might a fairly serious injury, and Saina despite now getting the bronze can't really celebrate her accomplishment.
On August 04 2012 22:29 Doraemon wrote: what injury did she sustain? =[
They were fiddling with her knee, heavily strapped it, commentators thought it was the heel at first, nothing has been said officially yet.The sad part is this might have been her last olympic match (age wise aswell), the injury looked pretty darn serious.
On August 04 2012 22:29 Doraemon wrote: what injury did she sustain? =[
They were fiddling with her knee, heavily strapped it, commentators thought it was the heel at first, nothing has been said officially yet.The sad part is this might have been her last olympic match (age wise aswell), the injury looked pretty darn serious.
It's the worst way to win and lose a medal.
Yea but frankly I dont think she will feel she doesnt deserve it. Remaining fit even if it is unfortunate injury is a part of the game, tough luck but thats how it is.
Shit, Xuerei is looking tired. Might just get outhustled by Yihan..
Yea tired errors coming in :s.
EDIT: Yihan saves 2 gold metal points. Xuerei totally tired out. Wang looking the favourite, fresh as a daisy. Going to set 3.
That was a brave effort from Li just now. She looked completely spent halfway through the second set, and I thought she was dead after giving away those two match points.
But she just kept hanging in there like a boss, refusing to make unforced errors and forcing Wang to play one more shot. And sure, she did get some gifts from Wang along the way, but to stay in and pull out that win took a lot of courage. I was already a fan after her semi win yesterday, even more so now.
On August 05 2012 00:35 sharkie wrote: While I love getting the free silver medal the Japanese Doubles Pair would have never gotten to the final under normal circumstances lol.
On August 05 2012 00:35 sharkie wrote: While I love getting the free silver medal the Japanese Doubles Pair would have never gotten to the final under normal circumstances lol.
still put up a great fight, fantastic second set
Yeah, that was such a close second set. Great match there.
On August 05 2012 00:35 sharkie wrote: While I love getting the free silver medal the Japanese Doubles Pair would have never gotten to the final under normal circumstances lol.
That team was lucky that when they threw their match, their opponents still wanted to win so it didn't seem too obvious.
Just want to post my frustration with not being able to find any badminton on TV around here (in the US). It says on channel 81 there will be some badminton on between 1am and 4am, I had better not be disappointed (its 2:36am here now). Being trying to catch some this entire Olympics but no luck.
On August 05 2012 18:36 rhs408 wrote: Just want to post my frustration with not being able to find any badminton on TV around here (in the US). It says on channel 81 there will be some badminton on between 1am and 4am, I had better not be disappointed (its 2:36am here now). Being trying to catch some this entire Olympics but no luck.
Well, all the link on the first page of this thread is showing the games right now if you want to try that
On August 05 2012 18:36 rhs408 wrote: Just want to post my frustration with not being able to find any badminton on TV around here (in the US). It says on channel 81 there will be some badminton on between 1am and 4am, I had better not be disappointed (its 2:36am here now). Being trying to catch some this entire Olympics but no luck.
Well, all the link on the first page of this thread is showing the games right now if you want to try that
On August 05 2012 21:17 Scruff wrote: Live stream links don't seem to work. Can anyone give me a working stream for Australia? I really wanna watch. Damnn
Oh wow, LCW is also pretty old. Lin Dan looks a lot older for some reason, maybe the stache and facial hair. Could be the final olympics singles tournament both of them play.
Bleh, I don't like how there's a "fast" end. Where lifts are drifting out, either long or to the side. Should be the same for both sides, stupid drift.
On August 05 2012 22:17 Raysalis wrote: I will be pretty sad when the game ends, i got a feeling both of them are going to retire
Yeah...I hope it goes to 30-all or something. There's no way either of them are playing in the next Olympics I think, and who knows, they might actually decide to retire like Phelps did this year ._.
Man Lee Chong Wei looks devastated. Really well-played from him. I thought he was going to run away with it so many times, but Lin Dan came back every time. Wow. Congratulations Lin Dan.
Dammit, the stream was working perfectly up until like 14-12 in the last set, and then it started lagging uncontrollably...I missed everything, so retarded -_-
Who doesn't? The guy has always tried his hardest.
On the plus side, Malaysia will be a little bit healthier. Baskin Robbins had promised everyone a free scoop of ice cream on the 8th of August had LCW won gold.
On August 05 2012 22:37 Firebolt145 wrote: Who doesn't? The guy has always tried his hardest.
On the plus side, Malaysia will be a little bit healthier. Baskin Robbins had promised everyone a free scoop of ice cream on the 8th of August had LCW won gold.
On August 05 2012 23:48 Maenander wrote: Haha I like Chinese Badminton but the Chinese dominance is just too much this time around, feels like Table Tennis
On August 05 2012 23:48 Maenander wrote: Haha I like Chinese Badminton but the Chinese dominance is just too much this time around, feels like Table Tennis
USA won 30 medals in swimming alone :O
I don't care about that, I just would like to see Badminton flourish outside of China, too, it lost a lot of ground in the last 20 years.
Any other Era, LCW wouldve been a legend. But yea, still a choker even if it is Lin Dan, hes losing to. Cant go toe to toe with him so often so long and then throw it away.
On August 05 2012 23:48 Maenander wrote: Haha I like Chinese Badminton but the Chinese dominance is just too much this time around, feels like Table Tennis
USA won 30 medals in swimming alone :O
I don't care about that, I just would like to see Badminton flourish outside of China, too, it lost a lot of ground in the last 20 years.
It is a risk to lose a spot in the Olympics if one country keeps dominating it year after year.
Can't believe the level of play (for around 70% of the match) of the Men Single's final ; these two guy are on another planet. Fuck, at the beginning they were playiung at double's speed.
On August 05 2012 23:48 Maenander wrote: Haha I like Chinese Badminton but the Chinese dominance is just too much this time around, feels like Table Tennis
USA won 30 medals in swimming alone :O
I don't care about that, I just would like to see Badminton flourish outside of China, too, it lost a lot of ground in the last 20 years.
Give USA 10 years. California is the USA version of China now, which have been for the last 5 years. I wouldn't be surprised if USA becomes top 3 country in world.
On August 05 2012 23:48 Maenander wrote: Haha I like Chinese Badminton but the Chinese dominance is just too much this time around, feels like Table Tennis
USA won 30 medals in swimming alone :O
I don't care about that, I just would like to see Badminton flourish outside of China, too, it lost a lot of ground in the last 20 years.
Give USA 10 years. California is the USA version of China now, which have been for the last 5 years. I wouldn't be surprised if USA becomes top 3 country in world.
Imho you need to fix your system, get a lot more actual clubs with dedicated coaches, get some sort of organized regular tournaments and then nourish your youth before you are going to stand a shot a getting a top10 player outside of just importing. Whilst there is a lot of talent in California I seriously doubt 10 years is going to cut it, but I would LOVE to be surprised. Perhaps it is just the Dane in me (we are after all known for our structure in Badminton, and even a rather average guy like me could crush most Europeans in the international tournaments), and perhaps it is possible to nourish some talent with the system you have in place, once again, please surprise me
Speaking of, this tuesday (the 7.th) I'm flying to San Francisco to work as a research scholar for a year. You (Amazingxkcd - or anyone else for that matter) don't happen to know of any good clubs around the place? I'm very good friends with a couple of Californian badminton players who have stayed and played in the Danish league, but inputs would really be appriciated
On August 05 2012 23:48 Maenander wrote: Haha I like Chinese Badminton but the Chinese dominance is just too much this time around, feels like Table Tennis
USA won 30 medals in swimming alone :O
I don't care about that, I just would like to see Badminton flourish outside of China, too, it lost a lot of ground in the last 20 years.
It is a risk to lose a spot in the Olympics if one country keeps dominating it year after year.
So...would basketball be likely to be removed as well?
On August 05 2012 23:48 Maenander wrote: Haha I like Chinese Badminton but the Chinese dominance is just too much this time around, feels like Table Tennis
USA won 30 medals in swimming alone :O
I don't care about that, I just would like to see Badminton flourish outside of China, too, it lost a lot of ground in the last 20 years.
Give USA 10 years. California is the USA version of China now, which have been for the last 5 years. I wouldn't be surprised if USA becomes top 3 country in world.
Imho you need to fix your system, get a lot more actual clubs with dedicated coaches, get some sort of organized regular tournaments and then nourish your youth before you are going to stand a shot a getting a top10 player outside of just importing. Whilst there is a lot of talent in California I seriously doubt 10 years is going to cut it, but I would LOVE to be surprised. Perhaps it is just the Dane in me (we are after all known for our structure in Badminton, and even a rather average guy like me could crush most Europeans in the international tournaments), and perhaps it is possible to nourish some talent with the system you have in place, once again, please surprise me
Speaking of, this tuesday (the 7.th) I'm flying to San Francisco to work as a research scholar for a year. You (Amazingxkcd - or anyone else for that matter) don't happen to know of any good clubs around the place? I'm very good friends with a couple of Californian badminton players who have stayed and played in the Danish league, but inputs would really be appriciated
Sorry, I am from Chicago. I played at Orange County Badminton club in LA for junior tourneys and that place was fantastic. My local club is found here MBC. Trust me, California is already been structured for a long time. You will be surprised
On August 05 2012 23:48 Maenander wrote: Haha I like Chinese Badminton but the Chinese dominance is just too much this time around, feels like Table Tennis
USA won 30 medals in swimming alone :O
I don't care about that, I just would like to see Badminton flourish outside of China, too, it lost a lot of ground in the last 20 years.
Give USA 10 years. California is the USA version of China now, which have been for the last 5 years. I wouldn't be surprised if USA becomes top 3 country in world.
Imho you need to fix your system, get a lot more actual clubs with dedicated coaches, get some sort of organized regular tournaments and then nourish your youth before you are going to stand a shot a getting a top10 player outside of just importing. Whilst there is a lot of talent in California I seriously doubt 10 years is going to cut it, but I would LOVE to be surprised. Perhaps it is just the Dane in me (we are after all known for our structure in Badminton, and even a rather average guy like me could crush most Europeans in the international tournaments), and perhaps it is possible to nourish some talent with the system you have in place, once again, please surprise me
Speaking of, this tuesday (the 7.th) I'm flying to San Francisco to work as a research scholar for a year. You (Amazingxkcd - or anyone else for that matter) don't happen to know of any good clubs around the place? I'm very good friends with a couple of Californian badminton players who have stayed and played in the Danish league, but inputs would really be appriciated
Sorry, I am from Chicago. I played at Orange County Badminton club in LA for junior tourneys and that place was fantastic. My local club is found here MBC. Trust me, California is already been structured for a long time. You will be surprised
On August 05 2012 23:48 Maenander wrote: Haha I like Chinese Badminton but the Chinese dominance is just too much this time around, feels like Table Tennis
USA won 30 medals in swimming alone :O
I don't care about that, I just would like to see Badminton flourish outside of China, too, it lost a lot of ground in the last 20 years.
Give USA 10 years. California is the USA version of China now, which have been for the last 5 years. I wouldn't be surprised if USA becomes top 3 country in world.
Imho you need to fix your system, get a lot more actual clubs with dedicated coaches, get some sort of organized regular tournaments and then nourish your youth before you are going to stand a shot a getting a top10 player outside of just importing. Whilst there is a lot of talent in California I seriously doubt 10 years is going to cut it, but I would LOVE to be surprised. Perhaps it is just the Dane in me (we are after all known for our structure in Badminton, and even a rather average guy like me could crush most Europeans in the international tournaments), and perhaps it is possible to nourish some talent with the system you have in place, once again, please surprise me
Speaking of, this tuesday (the 7.th) I'm flying to San Francisco to work as a research scholar for a year. You (Amazingxkcd - or anyone else for that matter) don't happen to know of any good clubs around the place? I'm very good friends with a couple of Californian badminton players who have stayed and played in the Danish league, but inputs would really be appriciated
Sorry, I am from Chicago. I played at Orange County Badminton club in LA for junior tourneys and that place was fantastic. My local club is found here MBC. Trust me, California is already been structured for a long time. You will be surprised
Isn't Orange County Badminton Club the one that has Tony Gunawan and Halim Haryanto?
On August 05 2012 23:48 Maenander wrote: Haha I like Chinese Badminton but the Chinese dominance is just too much this time around, feels like Table Tennis
USA won 30 medals in swimming alone :O
I don't care about that, I just would like to see Badminton flourish outside of China, too, it lost a lot of ground in the last 20 years.
Give USA 10 years. California is the USA version of China now, which have been for the last 5 years. I wouldn't be surprised if USA becomes top 3 country in world.
Imho you need to fix your system, get a lot more actual clubs with dedicated coaches, get some sort of organized regular tournaments and then nourish your youth before you are going to stand a shot a getting a top10 player outside of just importing. Whilst there is a lot of talent in California I seriously doubt 10 years is going to cut it, but I would LOVE to be surprised. Perhaps it is just the Dane in me (we are after all known for our structure in Badminton, and even a rather average guy like me could crush most Europeans in the international tournaments), and perhaps it is possible to nourish some talent with the system you have in place, once again, please surprise me
Speaking of, this tuesday (the 7.th) I'm flying to San Francisco to work as a research scholar for a year. You (Amazingxkcd - or anyone else for that matter) don't happen to know of any good clubs around the place? I'm very good friends with a couple of Californian badminton players who have stayed and played in the Danish league, but inputs would really be appriciated
Sorry, I am from Chicago. I played at Orange County Badminton club in LA for junior tourneys and that place was fantastic. My local club is found here MBC. Trust me, California is already been structured for a long time. You will be surprised
Isn't Orange County Badminton Club the one that has Tony Gunawan and Halim Haryanto?
On August 05 2012 23:48 Maenander wrote: Haha I like Chinese Badminton but the Chinese dominance is just too much this time around, feels like Table Tennis
USA won 30 medals in swimming alone :O
I don't care about that, I just would like to see Badminton flourish outside of China, too, it lost a lot of ground in the last 20 years.
Give USA 10 years. California is the USA version of China now, which have been for the last 5 years. I wouldn't be surprised if USA becomes top 3 country in world.
Imho you need to fix your system, get a lot more actual clubs with dedicated coaches, get some sort of organized regular tournaments and then nourish your youth before you are going to stand a shot a getting a top10 player outside of just importing. Whilst there is a lot of talent in California I seriously doubt 10 years is going to cut it, but I would LOVE to be surprised. Perhaps it is just the Dane in me (we are after all known for our structure in Badminton, and even a rather average guy like me could crush most Europeans in the international tournaments), and perhaps it is possible to nourish some talent with the system you have in place, once again, please surprise me
I was wondering why Danemark was ruling the European scene this much, and this even before I started to play ; nowadays it seems even more true ; this is the only country that can pretend to compare to the Asian scene. Could you explain me how your "federation" or system is working ? Is it like a "mandatory" sport for people, do you have massive accompagnement thoughout your youth ?
In France I can tell that you're kind of already lost if you happen to be a player of some region. In any case you must prove your level at the youger possible age and it's very unlikely you'll succeed if you don't join a specialized structure ; I think there is like 95% of the top classed players that come frome those structure. Then like everywhere, only the best survive until the adult categories with people starting to "die" in U15.
After that there is a very small kernel of very good players, and by this I mean who could pretend to win a secondary International open ; winning a super series seems completelely out of the question, even with Pi Hongyan playing for our country. The "Elite" category in France consists of 5% mondialy classed players, and the rest are players who I think cannot compare to anybody highly ranked in your country.
On August 05 2012 23:48 Maenander wrote: Haha I like Chinese Badminton but the Chinese dominance is just too much this time around, feels like Table Tennis
USA won 30 medals in swimming alone :O
I don't care about that, I just would like to see Badminton flourish outside of China, too, it lost a lot of ground in the last 20 years.
Give USA 10 years. California is the USA version of China now, which have been for the last 5 years. I wouldn't be surprised if USA becomes top 3 country in world.
Imho you need to fix your system, get a lot more actual clubs with dedicated coaches, get some sort of organized regular tournaments and then nourish your youth before you are going to stand a shot a getting a top10 player outside of just importing. Whilst there is a lot of talent in California I seriously doubt 10 years is going to cut it, but I would LOVE to be surprised. Perhaps it is just the Dane in me (we are after all known for our structure in Badminton, and even a rather average guy like me could crush most Europeans in the international tournaments), and perhaps it is possible to nourish some talent with the system you have in place, once again, please surprise me
I was wondering why Danemark was ruling the European scene this much, and this even before I started to play ; nowadays it seems even more true ; this is the only country that can pretend to compare to the Asian scene. Could you explain me how your "federation" or system is working ? Is it like a "mandatory" sport for people, do you have massive accompagnement thoughout your youth ?
In France I can tell that you're kind of already lost if you happen to be a player of some region. In any case you must prove your level at the youger possible age and it's very unlikely you'll succeed if you don't join a specialized structure ; I think there is like 95% of the top classed players that come frome those structure. Then like everywhere, only the best survive until the adult categories with people starting to "die" in U15.
After that there is a very small kernel of very good players, and by this I mean who could pretend to win a secondary International open ; winning a super series seems completelely out of the question, even with Pi Hongyan playing for our country. The "Elite" category in France consists of 5% mondialy classed players, and the rest are players who I think cannot compare to anybody highly ranked in your country.
I'm sorry for not responding sooner than now, but I've been traveling to San Francisco and have been busy setting up my new life (still am, so I'll keep this short).
It isn't a mandatory sport, but we've had enough success and icons through recent times to draw the attention of quite a few of the youth. In Denmark pretty much every reasonable sized town has a badmintonclub with a dedicated trainer. Starting from U9 until U17 there are tournaments every weekend for those interested (which is usually @ 40 in the mens singles and @ 20 pairs in mens doubles - most players play both until they reach Elite - these are numbers for the small tournaments, the major ones, like county and regional championships are swamped with players, although this varies with the level (E, M, A, B, C or D)) and from age 17 most people play together with the seniors (some prospects can do so from an even younger age, I've faced a 15 year old as 18 years old, but the physic is obviously going to hold them back a bit), although a U19 and U21 category does also exist. Percentage-wise I think the distribution between E, M, A, B, C and D is the same as in France, i.e. only a few percent in the E-category.
The base of the pyramid is thus rather wide which makes it possible to draft even very young players into specialized institutions where they can receive special training. This starts from a very early age, my old coach was for example also a trainer for the U13 and U15 prospects and would spend most of his weekends coaching these at different tournaments.
But what is usually emphasized is actually the intensity with which we train - I once heard an interview with an Indonesian player who had trained with the Danish national team and he had been throwing up due to the intensity. I don't really know if this holds true anymore (or ever did), but usual training is 2 hours long (done at least twice a week, even for players in C-category) with 1 hour of warm-up and technical training, 50 minutes of rounds planned by the coach and 10 minutes of physical training. This obviously varies during the season with more emphasis on the physical part in the start of the season and more and more time for rounds towards the end. A technical training drill is usually 1 minute (high-intensity) or 5 minutes (endurance) with 10 seconds breaks between, usually done 3 in a row and then a rotation.
This is obviously not the full answer as if it was, other countries should be able to just replicate it and then they should be able to compete internationally, which obviously isn't the case, but I do think a system with dedicated coaches and weekly tournaments are required as a bare minimum.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qoCw9.jpg)
. Scoring is simply based on a point system; 3 points for first place, 2 points for second place, 1 point for third place. Also, note that in the case of tie, a streamed bo5 Starcraft: Brood War event will take place to determine winner, games being played on Iccup.
![[image loading]](http://www.cadred.org/Images/Articles/2ba88f2de223362381e86051cef695cd.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://m1.tv2sport.dk/sites/default/files/styles/640x360/public/tinebauntr%C3%B8st.jpg?1343852487)
