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On May 13 2014 00:53 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 00:48 xes wrote:On May 13 2014 00:37 TitusVI wrote:
Anyway, NA LCS will make some big steps forward this split. Been said every split. As long as the focus in NA is on celebrity status and entertainment, it will never be competitive on an international stage. While I doubt NA will ever be truly relevant internationally (because of reasons you mentioned) I do think that they are steadily improving themselves. C9 is forcing this upon them unless there happy fighting for the scraps. Eu on the other hand seems to be getting steadily worse  Maybe the new "Super team" can chance it around the way C9 is doing for NA
There is no super team in EU. Do you talk about the nip guys who sucked against millenium or froggen and his crew? EU has taken steps backwards comming into the next split and no sign of imrpovement can be seen. I do think NA can become competitive on international stage. First step is to get toe to toe with china and then korea. Even this takes some time its great to see that steps are made in the right direction.
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8748 Posts
On May 12 2014 09:02 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 08:00 NeoIllusions wrote:
That said, it's one thing to be champions and talk shit cause you can and have backed it up. I don't think Hai/C9 have met their criteria yet. So Hai's comment after All-Star comes off as hot air. It is definitely hot air. But it's bad PR, not a bad attitude like Kiett said it was. It's the right attitude to have, Hai just needs lessons from C9's manager on being a fake like every well-marketed progamer is. Show nested quote +What he said is a PR nightmare because people are all about reactions, but that doesn't make it 'wrong.'(Even if it might be factually wrong because they might still get 3-0'd with him playing). This.
I think you're really confusing this situation because you don't recognize that sending a message is an act itself. Hai's twitter feed isn't some objective 3rd person reporting on Hai's attitude. It's Hai saying "I want you guys to know something that I think." Yeah, having confidence and feeling superior are useful tools for a competitor. Yeah, Hai's tweet reveals that he has those things. But he can have confidence without tweeting about it. Him tweeting about it is something else entirely. Everything he said could have been said without putting Link down, but he said what he said, publicly. People can dislike him for that and still want him to be confident and feel superior as a player.
And on another note, the typical Korean BW progamer interview actually represented the prevalent attitudes of Korean BW progamers. Maybe it didn't capture everything, and I'm sure there were some exceptions, but acting like they all did the same completely fake PR bullshit is extremely misleading. I don't know which of them you got to know well enough to convince you of your current opinions, but the ones I knew were humble and respectful and actually did want to show the fans good games. Everyone represents themselves differently in different crowds and contexts. You're trying to hold progamers to ridiculous standards if you think anything short of revealing every private thought crossing their minds is fake PR bullshit.
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I went looking for this nefarious tweet on Reddit, and surprisingly couldn't find it. Could someone link me to whatever is making TL lose its collective shit?
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On May 13 2014 02:10 TitusVI wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 00:53 Gorsameth wrote:On May 13 2014 00:48 xes wrote:On May 13 2014 00:37 TitusVI wrote:
Anyway, NA LCS will make some big steps forward this split. Been said every split. As long as the focus in NA is on celebrity status and entertainment, it will never be competitive on an international stage. While I doubt NA will ever be truly relevant internationally (because of reasons you mentioned) I do think that they are steadily improving themselves. C9 is forcing this upon them unless there happy fighting for the scraps. Eu on the other hand seems to be getting steadily worse Maybe the new "Super team" can chance it around the way C9 is doing for NA There is no super team in EU. Do you talk about the nip guys who sucked against millenium or froggen and his crew? EU has taken steps backwards comming into the next split and no sign of imrpovement can be seen. I do think NA can become competitive on international stage. First step is to get toe to toe with china and then korea. Even this takes some time its great to see that steps are made in the right direction.
imo NA or EU improving to match china/korea is rather difficult because of the LCS systems + region locks
hard to improve when the only teams you can scrim are other lcs/challenger teams that dont play at an international level. international competitions are only a couple times a year, and even then, only a select number of teams get to play in total
+ Show Spoiler + nony has dropped the hammer
Edit:
On May 13 2014 02:37 Headshot wrote:
I went looking for this nefarious tweet on Reddit, and surprisingly couldn't find it. Could someone link me to whatever is making TL lose its collective shit?
I THINK:
and maybe:
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Yeah those are the ones.
I'm not mad though. >.>
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So, facts. Awesome.
Link is super overrated regardless.
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Considering all the hubbub, those are pretty tame.
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On May 13 2014 02:41 JerKy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 02:10 TitusVI wrote:On May 13 2014 00:53 Gorsameth wrote:On May 13 2014 00:48 xes wrote:On May 13 2014 00:37 TitusVI wrote:
Anyway, NA LCS will make some big steps forward this split. Been said every split. As long as the focus in NA is on celebrity status and entertainment, it will never be competitive on an international stage. While I doubt NA will ever be truly relevant internationally (because of reasons you mentioned) I do think that they are steadily improving themselves. C9 is forcing this upon them unless there happy fighting for the scraps. Eu on the other hand seems to be getting steadily worse Maybe the new "Super team" can chance it around the way C9 is doing for NA There is no super team in EU. Do you talk about the nip guys who sucked against millenium or froggen and his crew? EU has taken steps backwards comming into the next split and no sign of imrpovement can be seen. I do think NA can become competitive on international stage. First step is to get toe to toe with china and then korea. Even this takes some time its great to see that steps are made in the right direction. imo NA or EU improving to match china/korea is rather difficult because of the LCS systems + region locks hard to improve when the only teams you can scrim are other lcs/challenger teams that dont play at an international level. international competitions are only a couple times a year, and even then, only a select number of teams get to play in total + Show Spoiler + nony has dropped the hammer Edit: Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 02:37 Headshot wrote:
I went looking for this nefarious tweet on Reddit, and surprisingly couldn't find it. Could someone link me to whatever is making TL lose its collective shit? I THINK: https://twitter.com/Hai_L9/status/465518613047152640https://twitter.com/Hai_L9/status/465518930874748931and maybe: https://twitter.com/Hai_L9/status/465519236018749440
korea can't scrim other regions to get better. so they get their goodness from themselves. I think every region can improve their level without beeing reliant on other regions.
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On May 13 2014 03:03 TitusVI wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 02:41 JerKy wrote:On May 13 2014 02:10 TitusVI wrote:On May 13 2014 00:53 Gorsameth wrote:On May 13 2014 00:48 xes wrote:On May 13 2014 00:37 TitusVI wrote:
Anyway, NA LCS will make some big steps forward this split. Been said every split. As long as the focus in NA is on celebrity status and entertainment, it will never be competitive on an international stage. While I doubt NA will ever be truly relevant internationally (because of reasons you mentioned) I do think that they are steadily improving themselves. C9 is forcing this upon them unless there happy fighting for the scraps. Eu on the other hand seems to be getting steadily worse Maybe the new "Super team" can chance it around the way C9 is doing for NA There is no super team in EU. Do you talk about the nip guys who sucked against millenium or froggen and his crew? EU has taken steps backwards comming into the next split and no sign of imrpovement can be seen. I do think NA can become competitive on international stage. First step is to get toe to toe with china and then korea. Even this takes some time its great to see that steps are made in the right direction. imo NA or EU improving to match china/korea is rather difficult because of the LCS systems + region locks hard to improve when the only teams you can scrim are other lcs/challenger teams that dont play at an international level. international competitions are only a couple times a year, and even then, only a select number of teams get to play in total + Show Spoiler + nony has dropped the hammer Edit: On May 13 2014 02:37 Headshot wrote:
I went looking for this nefarious tweet on Reddit, and surprisingly couldn't find it. Could someone link me to whatever is making TL lose its collective shit? I THINK: https://twitter.com/Hai_L9/status/465518613047152640https://twitter.com/Hai_L9/status/465518930874748931and maybe: https://twitter.com/Hai_L9/status/465519236018749440 korea can't scrim other regions to get better. so they get their goodness from themselves. I think every region can improve their level without beeing reliant on other regions.
Only if being good is actually directly correlated with more popularity and income
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On May 13 2014 03:05 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 03:03 TitusVI wrote:On May 13 2014 02:41 JerKy wrote:On May 13 2014 02:10 TitusVI wrote:On May 13 2014 00:53 Gorsameth wrote:On May 13 2014 00:48 xes wrote:On May 13 2014 00:37 TitusVI wrote:
Anyway, NA LCS will make some big steps forward this split. Been said every split. As long as the focus in NA is on celebrity status and entertainment, it will never be competitive on an international stage. While I doubt NA will ever be truly relevant internationally (because of reasons you mentioned) I do think that they are steadily improving themselves. C9 is forcing this upon them unless there happy fighting for the scraps. Eu on the other hand seems to be getting steadily worse Maybe the new "Super team" can chance it around the way C9 is doing for NA There is no super team in EU. Do you talk about the nip guys who sucked against millenium or froggen and his crew? EU has taken steps backwards comming into the next split and no sign of imrpovement can be seen. I do think NA can become competitive on international stage. First step is to get toe to toe with china and then korea. Even this takes some time its great to see that steps are made in the right direction. imo NA or EU improving to match china/korea is rather difficult because of the LCS systems + region locks hard to improve when the only teams you can scrim are other lcs/challenger teams that dont play at an international level. international competitions are only a couple times a year, and even then, only a select number of teams get to play in total + Show Spoiler + nony has dropped the hammer Edit: On May 13 2014 02:37 Headshot wrote:
I went looking for this nefarious tweet on Reddit, and surprisingly couldn't find it. Could someone link me to whatever is making TL lose its collective shit? I THINK: https://twitter.com/Hai_L9/status/465518613047152640https://twitter.com/Hai_L9/status/465518930874748931and maybe: https://twitter.com/Hai_L9/status/465519236018749440 korea can't scrim other regions to get better. so they get their goodness from themselves. I think every region can improve their level without beeing reliant on other regions. Only if being good is actually directly correlated with more popularity and income
You just need to go 25:3 in order to get said popularity and income from being good np np.
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But Korea rose because they played extensively against the top NA/EU teams at the time. There's a reason why Korean teams respect CLG so much - they helped the fledgling community develop. Now the situation is reversed, and it's NA/EU that have to catch up. You improve much more rapidly if you don't have to internally reinvent wheels that other teams already discovered.
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Those are seriously the tweets that has everyone all riled up? Shit, this place can be worse than Reddit.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On May 13 2014 03:10 Sandster wrote:
But Korea rose because they played extensively against the top NA/EU teams at the time. There's a reason why Korean teams respect CLG so much - they helped the fledgling community develop. Now the situation is reversed, and it's NA/EU that have to catch up. You improve much more rapidly if you don't have to internally reinvent wheels that other teams already discovered.
Korea scrimmed Chinese and Taiwanese teams loads during S2 when their region grew as well. Really Korea was exposed to just about every major team during S2.
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well, korea wasnt always as good as they are now, so they are testament to the idea that a region can improve with the current system of isolation scrimming; however, korean players have the work ethic and drive to improve. as Kupon3ss said, getting better = getting more money, whereas in the west, being a personality/streamer = more money
while NA/EU teams know that the eastern teams are better, its hard to assess that gap between east/west without actually playing the games out, imo. having the opportunity to scrim better teams more often would serve as a constant wake up call and reminder of where the standards for the best teams are.
tl;dr: korean teams might have improved relatively on their own, but it doesnt mean region locking is any less lame or having the opportunity to scrim korean teams would be any less beneficial to everyone. NA/EU teams too occupied with their own regions because of LCS play
edit: ignore what i said about kr being isolated x_x
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Just curious, what 3 champs are Hai talking about? Soraka, Kassadin, and ? Link wanted to play LB/TF but the team didn't want him to. And he plays several champs a lot better than Hai (Nid and Ori come to mind) but C9 isn't used to playing with those champs.
I mean, Hai basically said "I think we would have done better if our team were fully present and had our main shot caller." Gee, thanks for that insight. What he spoke was partially true - that C9 is better with Hai than Link after a week of practice - but why the hell do you need to tweet about it? Say something like "My team did great given the situation - now imagine if we were at full strength!" to get the fans excited.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 13 2014 03:03 TitusVI wrote:
korea can't scrim other regions to get better. so they get their goodness from themselves. I think every region can improve their level without beeing reliant on other regions.
Korea caught up to the West when the scene was developing in large part because the early competitive Korean teams were willing to scrim overseas teams at bad times and on terrible ping. Saying they only got goodness from themselves is a bit misleading.
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If you're far behind the best way to catch up is to play against other good teams. However, right now Korea isn't stagnating because their infrastructure is pushing the meta/strategy at an incredible pace such that other regions can't keep up just by watching OGN. If there aren't any more patches than other regions could probably analyze the games eventually where they could understand the strategy.
So people say these guys should go overseas to get practice with the Koreans but until you develop your own infrastructure you're always going to be a step behind.
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On May 12 2014 23:00 LaNague wrote:
ah yes, the usual USA team delusions.
Every single time, seriously, every single time there is an international tournament, fans of US teams and US teams themselves disregard actual facts and think they are better than all other teams ("SKT T1 failed this season, easy wins!" etc).
Then they get beaten to a pulp and afterwards they find some kind of excuse why this wasnt their "true form" and in reality they are still #1.
every single time.
You mean like Europe? It goes both ways my friend.
Besides, NA > EU for another year so theres that.
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I don't think US fans thought that at all? I think it was mostly Chinese fans.
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Tbh I don't know if hai would have done better. I just don't see a scenario where he's not feeding solo kills to every other midlaner at all stars. I think midgame with hai is better, but I don't know if c9 would even reach that point with hai.
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EPT
