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On May 12 2014 06:26 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 06:09 Salazarz wrote:
Saying stuff like he did AFTER the games were played is really bad taste, in my opinion, especially given the results. It's like, I don't know, a striker for a local football club probably shouldn't go on record to say that they would've at least scored a few goals, especially since he's got some moves Messi haven't even heard of, if only he were able to play on the day, after they'd gotten trashed 0-10 by Barcelona or something. He's not playing in the games. What the hell is he supposed to say before the games? "C9 will lose with Link, but would win with me"? That makes him sound like an even bigger ass. The way he said it is the only sensible way to accounting for the fact that his team is playing in the event but he isn't.
He could just not say anything? :p
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On May 12 2014 06:32 Ethelis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 06:26 TheYango wrote:On May 12 2014 06:09 Salazarz wrote:
Saying stuff like he did AFTER the games were played is really bad taste, in my opinion, especially given the results. It's like, I don't know, a striker for a local football club probably shouldn't go on record to say that they would've at least scored a few goals, especially since he's got some moves Messi haven't even heard of, if only he were able to play on the day, after they'd gotten trashed 0-10 by Barcelona or something. He's not playing in the games. What the hell is he supposed to say before the games? "C9 will lose with Link, but would win with me"? That makes him sound like an even bigger ass. The way he said it is the only sensible way to accounting for the fact that his team is playing in the event but he isn't. On May 12 2014 06:17 Kiett wrote:
That's not really what I meant. If he had said, "We learned a lot from this experience, and I know that next time we meet, we'll definitely be able to take a game off of SKT," that would signify confidence and optimism, but in a more appropriate way (even if I personally disagree with the sentiment). I guess it's just the "would have" thing that rubs me the wrong way. It's so easy to say stuff like "If x, y, or z happened, we would have won." Woulda, coulda, shoulda man. In other words, you want the same meaningless PR bullshit you've come to expect from years of BW interviews thanks to disciplined PR training and the humility of Korean culture. Rather have the PR bullshit than a bullshit delusion of him and his team. edit: Don't think im attacking you, im not.
Really? I think drama is part of the fuel NA esports needs. It's part of what makes watching NA exciting. For pure gameplay, I'd rather watch OGN.
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On May 12 2014 06:26 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 06:09 Salazarz wrote:
Saying stuff like he did AFTER the games were played is really bad taste, in my opinion, especially given the results. It's like, I don't know, a striker for a local football club probably shouldn't go on record to say that they would've at least scored a few goals, especially since he's got some moves Messi haven't even heard of, if only he were able to play on the day, after they'd gotten trashed 0-10 by Barcelona or something. He's not playing in the games. What the hell is he supposed to say before the games? "C9 will lose with Link, but would win with me"? That makes him sound like an even bigger ass. The way he said it is the only sensible way to accounting for the fact that his team is playing in the event but he isn't. Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 06:17 Kiett wrote:
That's not really what I meant. If he had said, "We learned a lot from this experience, and I know that next time we meet, we'll definitely be able to take a game off of SKT," that would signify confidence and optimism, but in a more appropriate way (even if I personally disagree with the sentiment). I guess it's just the "would have" thing that rubs me the wrong way. It's so easy to say stuff like "If x, y, or z happened, we would have won." Woulda, coulda, shoulda man. In other words, you want the same meaningless PR bullshit you've come to expect from years of BW interviews thanks to disciplined PR training and the humility of Korean culture.
What he's saying is patently stupid, he shouldn't say anything at all.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 12 2014 06:32 Ethelis wrote:
Rather have the PR bullshit than a bullshit delusion of him and his team.
You mean a "delusion" that any fundamentally successful competitive team ever has to have?
The belief that you are the best team/player in the world and that you can beat anyone has always been one of the tenets of building a winning team. Any sensible, successful progamer has that attitude. Anything else is either just a show to appeal to fans, or the mark of a player that's never going to go anywhere.
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On May 12 2014 07:06 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 06:32 Ethelis wrote:
Rather have the PR bullshit than a bullshit delusion of him and his team. You mean a "delusion" that any fundamentally successful competitive team ever has to have? The belief that you are the best team/player in the world and that you can beat anyone has always been one of the tenets of building a winning team. Any sensible, successful progamer has that attitude. Anything else is either just a show to appeal to fans, or the mark of a player that's never going to go anywhere.
Haven't you ever heard it's good to have a challenger's mentality? You can easily be successful without deluding yourself to those heights like that.
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Some of you are taking to some serious hyperbole in the other direction.
OMG was 1(albeit, 1 very large) mistake from closing out that first game. I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to say that C9, with their mid laner that they have played with for more than a year and is by all accounts a large part of their in game leadership, is around their level(that game 2 destruction of OMG/C9 mirrored the SKT/OMG series in that it looked like a mentally broken team getting rolled over and was not entirely indicative of the gap).
I don't think it's THE CRAZIEST THING EVER SAID, and DELUSIONAL for him to believe they could take one single game off of SKT with a better optimized game plan/draft and in game play(because whether or not he is leagues better than Link is irrelevant, because he's certainly not worse, and he has far more chemistry with his team).
Some of you are so incredibly reactionary. Calm down.
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There is just no point in saying what he said. He downgrades the meaning of SKT and OMG's run based on an assumption that does have anything relevant to back it up (the fact that you can beat NA players and teams does not mean anything concerning your ability to take on international level teams).
And the main part is not him being delusional, which is, at worst, annoying. He's just not very respectful to SKT.
Plus, having a member that cant participate in a tournament should be something a team is able to deal with. SKT would win versus Cloud 9 even with Faker replaced by a sub and would not see Faker's absence as an excuse if they lost to Cloud 9. They would probably feel humiliated and they'd keep quiet about it.
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On May 12 2014 07:47 Maluk wrote:
There is just no point in saying what he said. He downgrades the meaning of SKT and OMG's run based on an assumption that does have anything relevant to back it up (the fact that you can beat NA players and teams does not mean anything concerning your ability to take on international level teams).
And the main part is not him being delusional, which is, at worst, annoying. He's just not very respectful to SKT.
Plus, having a member that cant participate in a tournament should be something a team is able to deal with. SKT would win versus Cloud 9 even with Faker replaced by a sub and would not see Faker's absence as an excuse if they lost to Cloud 9. They would probably feel humiliated and they'd keep quiet about it.
I don't think he was being disrespectful at all and that is most certainly people(well, you, since nobody else has really said that. The only person he came close to disrespecting is Link) reading way too far into a simple statement, especially when taken in context of everything else he has said over all-star weekend.
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United States37500 Posts
I think Hai's comments are just silly. I get what Yango's saying about how talking yourself up is necessary and even vital, especially if you're trying to be a championship caliber player/team. Someone should pull up that Tyson interview about what he said and what he actually thought right before rights.
That said, it's one thing to be champions and talk shit cause you can and have backed it up. I don't think Hai/C9 have met their criteria yet. So Hai's comment after All-Star comes off as hot air.
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On May 12 2014 07:54 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 07:47 Maluk wrote:
There is just no point in saying what he said. He downgrades the meaning of SKT and OMG's run based on an assumption that does have anything relevant to back it up (the fact that you can beat NA players and teams does not mean anything concerning your ability to take on international level teams).
And the main part is not him being delusional, which is, at worst, annoying. He's just not very respectful to SKT.
Plus, having a member that cant participate in a tournament should be something a team is able to deal with. SKT would win versus Cloud 9 even with Faker replaced by a sub and would not see Faker's absence as an excuse if they lost to Cloud 9. They would probably feel humiliated and they'd keep quiet about it. I don't think he was being disrespectful at all and that is most certainly people(well, you, since nobody else has really said that. The only person he came close to disrespecting is Link) reading way too far into a simple statement, especially when taken in context of everything else he has said over all-star weekend.
I don't think he meant to be disrespectful. His tweet was. You can be disrespectful to someone without meaning it. And that's why you're actually reading further into the statement than I am. I don't care about what he means or doesn't mean, I just read the tweet. I don't even know him to be honest so I wouldn't know.
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On May 12 2014 08:04 Maluk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 07:54 red_ wrote:On May 12 2014 07:47 Maluk wrote:
There is just no point in saying what he said. He downgrades the meaning of SKT and OMG's run based on an assumption that does have anything relevant to back it up (the fact that you can beat NA players and teams does not mean anything concerning your ability to take on international level teams).
And the main part is not him being delusional, which is, at worst, annoying. He's just not very respectful to SKT.
Plus, having a member that cant participate in a tournament should be something a team is able to deal with. SKT would win versus Cloud 9 even with Faker replaced by a sub and would not see Faker's absence as an excuse if they lost to Cloud 9. They would probably feel humiliated and they'd keep quiet about it. I don't think he was being disrespectful at all and that is most certainly people(well, you, since nobody else has really said that. The only person he came close to disrespecting is Link) reading way too far into a simple statement, especially when taken in context of everything else he has said over all-star weekend. I don't think he meant to be disrespectful. His tweet was. You can be disrespectful to someone without meaning it. And that's why you're actually reading further into the statement than I am. I don't care about what he means or doesn't mean, I just read the tweet. I don't even know him to be honest so I wouldn't know.
No, he really just isn't being disrespectful(except maybe to Link), I pretty much entirely disagree with you. You're clearly attributing things to his statement that aren't there, like an implication that he doesn't think SKT's run was impressive or is trying to take credit away from them. There is no exclusivity to his comment and SKT's dominance. He can think he is good enough to affect a change in a game, while still seeing SKT as an incredibly good team who played very well during the event.
What he said is a PR nightmare because people are all about reactions, but that doesn't make it 'wrong.'(Even if it might be factually wrong because they might still get 3-0'd with him playing).
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United States47024 Posts
On May 12 2014 08:00 NeoIllusions wrote:
That said, it's one thing to be champions and talk shit cause you can and have backed it up. I don't think Hai/C9 have met their criteria yet. So Hai's comment after All-Star comes off as hot air.
It is definitely hot air. But it's bad PR, not a bad attitude like Kiett said it was.
It's the right attitude to have, Hai just needs lessons from C9's manager on being a fake like every well-marketed progamer is.
What he said is a PR nightmare because people are all about reactions, but that doesn't make it 'wrong.'(Even if it might be factually wrong because they might still get 3-0'd with him playing).
This.
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I'm more interested in the fact that teams at All stars seem to implode after the first game. I wonder if this is a lack of BoX experience since no one outside of Korea actually gets continual BoX style games.
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On May 12 2014 15:42 Numy wrote:
I'm more interested in the fact that teams at All stars seem to implode after the first game. I wonder if this is a lack of BoX experience since no one outside of Korea actually gets continual BoX style games.
I dunno if I would make that assumption
Maintaining a level of play throughout an entire BoX is hard. Players get mentally tired, players let nerves get to them, players can get demoralized, especially if they're 0-2. Before you bring up "but they practice X hours a day" practice or scrimming isn't the same as a BoX where stuff is on the line. Korean teams aren't immune to this either. Old KTB vs T1K comes to mind; KTB up 2-0, T1K gets a 20 min surrender in G3, KTB plays super scared for the rest of the set, especially in G5.
It also just might be a lack of versatility that gets mercilessly exploited. If your best strat fails in game 1 and you have no backup plan what happens then? Really desperate shit happens (level 2 elise gank no cocoon, pomelo best jungler). Or in the case of KTB, they keep trying their fast push strat, but T1K beats them with their adaptations 3 games straight.
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And its not like c9 is usually a bad playoff team. Tbh, sneaky and balls just choked. That series was winnable and they could have earned the right to be crushed by t1k.
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ah yes, the usual USA team delusions.
Every single time, seriously, every single time there is an international tournament, fans of US teams and US teams themselves disregard actual facts and think they are better than all other teams ("SKT T1 failed this season, easy wins!" etc).
Then they get beaten to a pulp and afterwards they find some kind of excuse why this wasnt their "true form" and in reality they are still #1.
every single time.
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I think against OMG they would have been 50/50 with Hai there, very good and solid chances of winning, Link was the primary reason they lost imo.... but SKT?? Hahahaaaaa yeah right!
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Anyway, NA LCS will make some big steps forward this split.
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On May 13 2014 00:37 TitusVI wrote:
Anyway, NA LCS will make some big steps forward this split.
Been said every split. As long as the focus in NA is on celebrity status and entertainment, it will never be competitive on an international stage.
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On May 13 2014 00:48 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 00:37 TitusVI wrote:
Anyway, NA LCS will make some big steps forward this split. Been said every split. As long as the focus in NA is on celebrity status and entertainment, it will never be competitive on an international stage.
While I doubt NA will ever be truly relevant internationally (because of reasons you mentioned) I do think that they are steadily improving themselves. C9 is forcing this upon them unless there happy fighting for the scraps.
Eu on the other hand seems to be getting steadily worse  Maybe the new "Super team" can chance it around the way C9 is doing for NA
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EPT
