• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:22
CEST 03:22
KST 10:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)83ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo37Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Is the larve respawn broken? Old Replays From 1.4.6 The future of the SC game model
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool ProGamer Paychecks Story Data needed Best thing happen to StarCraft since Remastered? BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10738 users

[IPL] IPL5 Discussion - Page 195

Forum Index > LoL Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 193 194 195 196 197 398 Next
Slow Motion
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6960 Posts
December 01 2012 20:24 GMT
#3881
Da Ashe ult baits.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
December 01 2012 20:25 GMT
#3882
Wow..... exhaust karthus, I fucking hate that summoner O.o, I'd be so pissed if I was nyjacky.
liftlift > tsm
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
December 01 2012 20:26 GMT
#3883
Does Jacky not play Kat. That was the most overzealous kill attempt I've seen in awhile :<
TheSinisterRed
Profile Joined September 2012
United States1546 Posts
December 01 2012 20:26 GMT
#3884
LOL, got it that time. Must feel really good to get that kill on Karth.
Slow Motion
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6960 Posts
December 01 2012 20:26 GMT
#3885
where's your exhaust Karthus hue hue hue
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-01 20:27:19
December 01 2012 20:26 GMT
#3886
Cop. 2 for 2!

On December 02 2012 05:26 Numy wrote:
Does Jacky not play Kat. That was the most overzealous kill attempt I've seen in awhile :<


clearly it works, but malunoo was there.
liftlift > tsm
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
December 01 2012 20:27 GMT
#3887
On December 02 2012 05:26 Numy wrote:
Does Jacky not play Kat. That was the most overzealous kill attempt I've seen in awhile :<

He's been playing it recently, still new to it. Ashe arrow probably didn't help lol

2nd times the charm.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-01 20:30:41
December 01 2012 20:28 GMT
#3888
Cop, 3 for 3!

#1 Ashe NA.

EDIT: 3 for 4. now.
liftlift > tsm
Slow Motion
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6960 Posts
December 01 2012 20:28 GMT
#3889
Voyboy's barrels have been off this series.
Chiharu Harukaze
Profile Joined September 2011
12112 Posts
December 01 2012 20:28 GMT
#3890
On December 02 2012 05:23 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2012 05:20 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
On December 02 2012 05:18 TheYango wrote:
I'd say that all in all there are probably <20 champs that shouldn't see competitive play, period.

The other ~80 all about comfort, playstyles, and drafting intelligently. By and large people saying champs are bad are totally misjudging them.

I think another problem is a matter of certain champions needing a lot of set-up for the, while someone like Malphite kinda just fits in everywhere (although to varying degrees of effectiveness). With solo-queue being the main form of practise and experimentation for most people, it's hard to create the conditions to fully experiment with the more "exotic" picks.


I think your first point is quite vital. If a champion isn't significantly better than others in that specific niche but has far bigger/worse drawbacks there's almost no point in trying to get it to work.

I think one advantage though is being able to skirt around bans. For example, Master Yi as a replacement for Katarina in M5's team comp (although he needs far more set up than Katarina does).

Also, a lot of players respond badly when playing against champs they don't often play against. The comfort-zone advantage, while not a lot, will eventually come into play when the win margins between teams start converging.

The biggest drawback perhaps is that strats can be shut down with tactical banning, so the amount of time and effort put into developing a strat and the payoff becomes rather skewed. But perhaps in some situations it may be worth it, especially if it means you have a broader repertoire to use and abuse. But there's a team that really emphasises constant innovation, I think teams may find themselves pressured into needing to innovate as well.
It's like, "Is the Federation's Mobile Suit some kind of monster?"
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
December 01 2012 20:30 GMT
#3891
Angush's build this game is much better than last time.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-01 20:30:47
December 01 2012 20:30 GMT
#3892
Like I said, it's about intelligent drafting. The "niche" picks are suited for 4th/5th pick, but every game has 4th/5th picks. You're not going to pick 5 1st/2nd pick champs every game, and slotting in those champs where the later champ actually fits your needs better results in a weaker draft overall.
Moderator
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
December 01 2012 20:30 GMT
#3893
On December 02 2012 05:28 wei2coolman wrote:
Cop, 3 for 3!

#1 Ashe NA.

missed 1, worst ashe NA
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 01 2012 20:31 GMT
#3894
Cop Ashe is a waste because it wastes his #1 Phage proc luck.
Moderator
SoulSever
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada779 Posts
December 01 2012 20:31 GMT
#3895
On December 02 2012 05:18 TheYango wrote:
I'd say that all in all there are probably <20 champs that shouldn't see competitive play, period.

The other ~80 all about comfort, playstyles, and drafting intelligently. By and large people saying champs are bad are totally misjudging them.


yeah, quite curious to see this list
Violet <3 ~~~Better places than here exist
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
December 01 2012 20:31 GMT
#3896
On December 02 2012 05:30 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2012 05:28 wei2coolman wrote:
Cop, 3 for 3!

#1 Ashe NA.

missed 1, worst ashe NA

Just like Blitz
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-01 20:32:22
December 01 2012 20:31 GMT
#3897
Fuck Karthus, that champ is such bullshit. That ultimate just makes me soooooo angry.

Cop 4 for 5, DAMN those arrows so good.
liftlift > tsm
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
December 01 2012 20:31 GMT
#3898
press R everyone!
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Chicane
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7875 Posts
December 01 2012 20:31 GMT
#3899
Man he pushed R so well.
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-01 20:33:00
December 01 2012 20:32 GMT
#3900
On December 02 2012 05:18 TheYango wrote:
I'd say that all in all there are probably <20 champs that shouldn't see competitive play, period.

The other ~80 all about comfort, playstyles, and drafting intelligently. By and large people saying champs are bad are totally misjudging them.

I think 20 is a bit too much.
I'm thinking:
Sejuani
Zed
Tryndamere
Volibear
Talon
Karma
Leblanc
Rammus
Fiora
Galio (unless CLG support Galio makes a comeback? Though Loco still needs to learn regular supports so doubt it)
Brand


Then there's really situational picks but I don't think it's fair to say they shouldn't see competitive play, hell look at the recent AP Yi, GP, and Nasus picks.

Heimer
AP Master Yi
Gankplank
AD Sion
Nasus
Mordekaiser
Poppy

Fizz gets a special placement because he's viable but no one plays him, at least in my opinion.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
Prev 1 193 194 195 196 197 398 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 38m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech154
Ketroc 56
RuFF_SC2 11
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 3539
Rain 3210
Artosis 667
NaDa 65
Purpose 11
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm115
League of Legends
Doublelift19867
JimRising 596
Counter-Strike
taco 149
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe270
Mew2King50
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor166
Other Games
summit1g19154
Maynarde305
UpATreeSC57
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1242
BasetradeTV271
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta25
• mYiSmile114
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21340
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
38m
WardiTV Weekly
9h 38m
RSL Revival
1d 8h
RSL Revival
1d 15h
Bombastic Starleague
1d 18h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
OSC
2 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Bombastic Starleague
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
HomeStory Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
HomeStory Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
HomeStory Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
Douyu Cup 2026
Murky Cup 2026

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
ASL Season 22:Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.