I can't believe Soraka/Graves is that bad of a lane against Sivir/Sona.
Also, I feel that the 3 people with gp/5 on SK's team is not good vs such a strong setup of M5. The gold sure is nice, but all 3 are going to do zero damage in teamfights (well Cho has feast, but other than that nothing).
well... there's some serious derp from sk... but it's magnified because their lineup is just worse. I think they'd be losing a lot less badly if the picks had been different.
On January 28 2012 06:04 Two_DoWn wrote: I cant believe how bad Candy and Nyph are now.
They never were good.
I kept hearing from EUs that Candy/Nyph was the best bottom lane ever yet routinely would see them lose in scrims, saw them lose in numerous tournaments to Fnatic's botlane, TSM's botlane, and even old CLG's botlane (Chauster+Elementz).
Like, I'm sure they're good. They're pro gamers after all and SK wouldn't keep them if they were bad. But I feel like they're the single most overhyped people in LoL. Or at least, they got really overhyped on TL.
On January 28 2012 06:04 Two_DoWn wrote: I cant believe how bad Candy and Nyph are now.
They never were good.
I kept hearing from EUs that Candy/Nyph was the best bottom lane ever yet routinely would see them lose in scrims, saw them lose in numerous tournaments to Fnatic's botlane, TSM's botlane, and even old CLG's botlane (Chauster+Elementz).
Like, I'm sure they're good. They're pro gamers after all and SK wouldn't keep them if they were bad. But I feel like they're the single most overhyped people in LoL. Or at least, they got really overhyped on TL.
On January 28 2012 06:04 Two_DoWn wrote: I cant believe how bad Candy and Nyph are now.
They never were good.
I kept hearing from EUs that Candy/Nyph was the best bottom lane ever yet routinely would see them lose in scrims, saw them lose in numerous tournaments to Fnatic's botlane, TSM's botlane, and even old CLG's botlane (Chauster+Elementz).
Like, I'm sure they're good. They're pro gamers after all and SK wouldn't keep them if they were bad. But I feel like they're the single most overhyped people in LoL. Or at least, they got really overhyped on TL.
They used to duo Q a lot so people would see them win in ranked matches and thus the hyping started. They aren't bad at all, but I also feel that most champions that Candypanda plays really well aren't that popular anymore (Ezreal, Caitlyn).
Group B gonna be good. aAa, CLG.eu, Fnatic and Sypher. I'm expecting that CLG.eu will dominate in the same way that M5 did. Maybe aAa will pull some cool shit off, but I don't expect Fnatic or Sypher to win a lot.
On January 28 2012 06:04 Two_DoWn wrote: I cant believe how bad Candy and Nyph are now.
They never were good.
I kept hearing from EUs that Candy/Nyph was the best bottom lane ever yet routinely would see them lose in scrims, saw them lose in numerous tournaments to Fnatic's botlane, TSM's botlane, and even old CLG's botlane (Chauster+Elementz).
Like, I'm sure they're good. They're pro gamers after all and SK wouldn't keep them if they were bad. But I feel like they're the single most overhyped people in LoL. Or at least, they got really overhyped on TL.
I agree. They were pretty strong when they played for gamdde in S1 finals, but they were picked up as up and comers IMO it was never like they were the strongest bot lane in EU.
Wickd used to be the main support player for SK loll..
Jatt is indeed a pleasure to listen to with some very insightfull comment and deman is doing the same good job he did at Kiev.
Hoping that CLG.eu makes it through to face m5. They have had good succes against them in scrims but actual tournament games are always somethng else imo.
On January 28 2012 06:27 NotSorry wrote: I want an m5/clg.eu finals with a shyvanna vs irelia top lane so wickd can show how it's done and that kiev was player error and not champ issues
I'd like to see that too. Every time I see rain man go irelia on stream/tourney, I feel he builds incorrectly and plays it all wrong.
On January 28 2012 06:27 NotSorry wrote: I want an m5/clg.eu finals with a shyvanna vs irelia top lane so wickd can show how it's done and that kiev was player error and not champ issues
I want clg.eu not to get out off groupstage to show that they are overrated too.
Derp, someone already posted. Anyway, I like the Ahri pick, and I really hope Snoopeh can pull the jungle Alistar off convincingly, but he'll have a hard time farming against Lee Sin.
Well I guess that would go a lot with what he said on SotL, be confident that you can simply get off from the ganks so the movespeed definately helps in that, but he also said to be aggressive and lvl 1 parrley limits harass really hard.
Then again, wickd does like his farm, so stay safe with E and use W for err sustain? I mean the heal is pretty good for the mana on that ability.
aAa is just playing bad at this point >< There getting caught a lot. waste ages trying to kill gp while mid is also losing and bot is drawing. not to mention that sona ult at dragon.
Also interesting to see that Wickd left the top turrets for aAa alive. They don't give much of a vision advantage early on (dragon/buff control), and they are constantly taking out Wukong's farm.
He's going full support GP. Wriggle's, Phage, Aegis, Stark's.
That alistair gank mid where he just trotted from behind mid turret to combo on karthus..one of those moments where you go like...well wtf was I even able to do to that? Anyway don't think I've ever seen that many dorans on a karthus before.
Only 1 team is in the game sofar. Sound should resume when they actualy get close to starting another game i guess. They can only banter on about nothing for so long.
I love hearing the team communication. It's the biggest reason I mostly watch online tournaments from the players' streams.
Wouldn't it be nice if you could have some sort of "listen in" during a commentary of an offline tournament match where they just switch to the team communication. MLG does that a lot for HALO matches.
Krepo is really brave and often takes the lead in plays which is why he likes alistar. Pretty understandable he gets annoyed when nobody follows him or they let him die when he often starts these good fights
I played with him and yellowpete duo queuing a few times and I just started screaming SIR YES SIR in chat everytime krepo ordered everyone to go somewhere. Good times.
what the commentators don't know: Froggen plays quite alot of Cass on his stream, so i think he'll do just fine despite not being able to play his two main heroes.
Shyvana and Lee going for full on jungle invade on Snoopeh. They take red and get close to Snoopeh, but Snoopeh flashes away. Both try to gank bot lane then, but fail to amount anything. Meanwhile Wickd is farming top comfortably without a laner against him. Snoopeh gets caught after taking Sypher's blue, and dies to Karthus/Lee Sin. Karthus dies to Cassio, and Cass has double buff.
Lee Sin ganking top, forcing Wickd to flash. LS nearly dies after diving the tower. Cass takes out Karthus.
Cass and Alistar invade the bottom jungle to gank Karthus, but when Soraka gets caught and dies to a 4 man gank, Cass and Alistar are trapped. Alistar manages to survive, but Sypher gets dragon.
Cass nearly gets a kill on Karthus, after an Alistar gank.
Wickd GP at 110 vs 55 cs for Shyvana now. Top outer tower is dead for Sypher. Alistar has oracles.
Big teamfight and gank on Karthus, but Kennen and Lee Sin are there. Teamfight ensues, Alistar survives initially but dies to Sona ult.
Karthus and Lee Sin die for GP, Alistar and Cass. Also CLG.eu lost oracle and double buff.
Huge gank bottom for CLG.eu, blowing sivir and gp ult. They stay around too long at bottom turret and get counter ganked. Sivir dies, sacrificing himself for the oracle Alistar. Sypher has a gold advantage now.
Kennen and Sona kill Soraka whilst Sivir has backed. Alistar and Sivir coming for a countergank manage to get both really low, but none of them die.
Lee Sin gets caught by GP going bottom, and dies. CLG.eu start baron to bait Sypher, and a teamfight ensues. Sona gets caught and blows ult on 1 person. Froggen has the most amazing ult, and 3 of Sypher die.
Shyvana running away after another teamfight where two of Sypher die, goes into a bush to tp, but Soraka pulls off the flash silence. Shyv dies, GP takes out Kennen solo at dragon.
CLG push onto the inner middle turret, gets taken down after two creep waves. CLG push the engage with Sivir ult, shurelia, Snoopeh initiating. Sypher is far away but the engage comes. A 4 for 1 trade ensues, and Sypher calls GG.
Snoopeh played very good, some crucial initiations that won them teamfights. CLG.eu just had amazing teamfighting power. WotA, Starks, Sivir ult, soraka ult really adds up
On January 28 2012 22:58 DoXa wrote: Snoopeh played very good, some crucial initiations that won them teamfights. CLG.eu just had amazing teamfighting power. WotA, Starks, Sivir ult, soraka ult really adds up
I also feel that Shyvana lost out too much in top lane. Whilst he was very valuable for the counterjungling and ganks, Wickd had total free farm, and his farm lead was huge. Not to mention the fact that Shyvana couldn't solo counterjungle, because you simply cannot do that to an alistar. He'll keep you in his jungle until his teammates come to kill you. So when Sypher counterjungled it was Lee Sin + Shyvana, making them both lose out on their own jungle and top lane.
I also have the feeling that Karthus is overrated quite a bit in competitive play. He's getting instapicked a lot if he doesn't get banned, but I don't really remember him winning many games as of lately.
Okay he took 15 minutes to learn which ledges are suitable for pounce. That escape had nothing to do with his skill and had a lot to do with M5's misjudgement.
On January 29 2012 00:01 BluzMan wrote: Okay he took 15 minutes to learn which ledges are suitable for pounce. That escape had nothing to do with his skill and had a lot to do with M5's misjudgement.
Yeah, Skyyart has made such bad plays that he's 9-1 now.
He's playing really well, and knows which trades he can make. When you have that much gold built up you only go in when you know that you won't die, because you are worth 500 gold.
And Sypher takes the first match! Well played by Skyyart especially. He just snowballed from the start, by getting that kill on Kennen. And we see that Morde can't lane well against Nidalee.
real tunnelvision from M5. Nidalee gets ahead with BT, every other item she buys is tanky, M5 just focuses her and gives sivir the opportunity to destroy them with being untouched
On January 29 2012 00:51 Ziken wrote: Is anyone else suffering from ridiculous amounts of lag on the stream?? It was fine for me, but all of a sudden its gone really bad ._.
Mine is stuttering a lot. Switched it to low quality and didn't see a difference.
Huge teamfight in river after baron pull from Sypher.
On January 29 2012 00:51 Ziken wrote: Is anyone else suffering from ridiculous amounts of lag on the stream?? It was fine for me, but all of a sudden its gone really bad ._.
EDIT: Actually the closest series I've yet seen in LoL. Totally worth the time. Also, I'm growing to hate Sypher's solo top who enjoys picking retarded champions who can get away free after the most retarded positioning mistakes.
m5 still looks like by far the better team. They made mistakes though because they got really cocky. Ill advised baron attempt and got initiated on, then shyvana goes bot getting greedy to not let the tower go and they think they can 4v5 to prevent baron but get jumped on. m5 plays really aggressive, and if you can capitalize on it you can beat them for sure. I think a lot of teams play pretty defensive when they start taking their buffs, but I think they need to go after them when they do shit like counter jungle really aggressively. Top lane player for sypher seems to be the only one winning their lane.
Anyone give me a quick breakdown so I can add what is going on to the op? I was kind of asleep. Real Neo asking for a placeholder before he took over so I say yes and now he disappears. And I have NO clue how to actually work the forum like JBright.
On January 29 2012 01:25 Itsmedudeman wrote: m5 still looks like by far the better team. They made mistakes though because they got really cocky. Ill advised baron attempt and got initiated on, then shyvana goes bot getting greedy to not let the tower go and they think they can 4v5 to prevent baron but get jumped on. m5 plays really aggressive, and if you can capitalize on it you can beat them for sure. I think a lot of teams play pretty defensive when they start taking their buffs, but I think they need to go after them when they do shit like counter jungle really aggressively. Top lane player for sypher seems to be the only one winning their lane.
I more or less agree. Skyyart has played really well so far, and won his lane vs Darien. The problem seems to be that Alex outlanes Amaury, and Genja+Pepper tend to demolish most bot lanes. If Sivir had IE/PD/LW way earlier, Sypher would have dealt with Shyvana+Lee Sin way better. Amaury played his Morg really well in team fights though, loads of good bindings and a few really good ults.
On January 29 2012 01:27 Two_DoWn wrote: Anyone give me a quick breakdown so I can add what is going on to the op? I was kind of asleep. Real Neo asking for a placeholder before he took over so I say yes and now he disappears. And I have NO clue how to actually work the forum like JBright.
CLG.eu beat Sypher in their match, causing the seeds for semi's to be Sypher vs M5 and CLG.eu vs Mtl.tt.
Now the semifinals are going on, Sypher and M5 are 1-1. Final game about to begin.
On January 29 2012 01:22 daSilvaz wrote: Udyr too useless
When you use your flash into nothing, build wriggles, build ninja tabi vs brand stun, nunu perma slow ms+as and lee sin, and don't build randuins instead opting for a 46 minute sunfire, of course you're useless. Might as well be playing AP garen.
So Imma have to be out and about for the rest of the day. Id appreciate it if somone could just write down a post of what happens so I can add the results to the op when I get a chance.
Yeah skyyart's one of the better top laners just from watching his tourney games although I never see him in solo queue. Whoever was claiming m5s bot lane doesn't carry hard hasn't watched their recent games. M5 has a really really solid bot lane.
Thanks a lot. If you could find that page for the other semi and the 2 finals tomorrow for me I would appreciate it. I have a decided lack of ability to read french.
Thanks a lot. If you could find that page for the other semi and the 2 finals tomorrow for me I would appreciate it. I have a decided lack of ability to read french.
It might help if you were trying to read German :p.
Thanks a lot. If you could find that page for the other semi and the 2 finals tomorrow for me I would appreciate it. I have a decided lack of ability to read french.
A tip, use the french stream for video and other one for audio http://www.own3d.tv/live/156498/OGamingTV off sync with english one being 5 sec faster but at least it's watchable.
that was such a fun game. i also really enjoy the jatt commentary. he sees all these things that decide dights that the play by play commentators miss.
So...about Chaox and the snowball meta. That was a nice example of a team mounting a comeback. It also showed a good example of an instance where the Wriggles on the AD was a detriment to the team. Sivir's IE was a deterrent in the midgame and seemed to allow time for the comeback.
The secret EU pro Skype chan seems to think it was down to Soraka silencing Morg. Apparently Morg black shielded, so they knew her BS would be down against the Soraka silence and just went for it. Insane to be able to keep such things in mind in such a heated teamfight.
On January 29 2012 04:17 DanielZKlein wrote: The secret EU pro Skype chan seems to think it was down to Soraka silencing Morg. Apparently Morg black shielded, so they knew her BS would be down against the Soraka silence and just went for it. Insane to be able to keep such things in mind in such a heated teamfight.
LOL. I imagine it like that
"Let's fight!" "No we can't" "Morg Blackshield down" "Oh ok, then go"
I wouldn't be surprised at all if they did it. It's pretty common to go for a fight immediately after a major CD like black shield is used. See a pretty good amount of things like that in scrims.
On January 29 2012 04:27 Craton wrote: I wouldn't be surprised at all if they did it. It's pretty common to go for a fight immediately after a major CD like black shield is used. See a pretty good amount of things like that in scrims.
Actually I'm pretty sure they did it. Then again I'm only a 1500 elo scrub who never ever thought about stuff like that. I mean when an Ult is down I notice it, but regular spells.
It's just amazing to see. The more you play it the more awesome it gets to watch progamers when you eventually start to understand the "little" things that makes progamers/high elo players so much better.
And seriously, SUPER big props to Jbright and the bear of moons for doing these threads all the time. This is the first and last time I am EVER doing this.
How did the 3rd game between M5 and Sypher go? I already know the result, but I was surprised to see the picks with Irelia chosen after Malphite was picked.
clg in big trouble, wickd had two people zoned off in that blue fight and they still lost it.
@zenon, tank ap heroes is going to be a big trend coming up. A lot of really good ap heroes don't actually scale that hard off ap relative to building hp and getting their spells off more times.
On January 29 2012 05:01 Alaric wrote: How did the 3rd game between M5 and Sypher go? I already know the result, but I was surprised to see the picks with Irelia chosen after Malphite was picked.
Missed most of the game, but Malphite went mid and completely destroyed Karthus. Game was over pretty quick, with M5 snowballing pretty hard.
On January 29 2012 05:14 Niton wrote: That pause smells really strongly of cheating tbh, the timing is so suspicious and completely killed mtL's momentum going into the fight :/
I really don't see why CLG would cheat on this, they were at a 1-0 advantage going into the match and if they lost they would have been at 1-1. They're also good friends with mtl.tt. The pause timing was really really unfortunate though.
On January 29 2012 05:14 Niton wrote: That pause smells really strongly of cheating tbh, the timing is so suspicious and completely killed mtL's momentum going into the fight :/
Anivia had stopped moving for a few seconds while attempting to zone out Mistral and left her ult running in a position where it wouldn't hit anyone. Seeing as how Froggen isn't an idiot and knows how to play Anivia, we can assume that he probably was telling the truth about being stuck. It doesn't smell strongly of cheating at all if you were paying attention.
On January 29 2012 05:14 Niton wrote: That pause smells really strongly of cheating tbh, the timing is so suspicious and completely killed mtL's momentum going into the fight :/
Anivia had stopped moving for a few seconds while attempting to zone out Mistral and left her ult running in a position where it wouldn't hit anyone. Seeing as how Froggen isn't an idiot and knows how to play Anivia, we can assume that he probably was telling the truth about being stuck. It doesn't smell strongly of cheating at all if you were paying attention.
I don't think it's possible for a 1-minute pause to not rouse suspicion when it comes as a teamfight starts, though. Even if it is legitimate, it's really shady to pause exactly at the moment where your team is supposed to be making split-second decisions.
Short of a visible disconnect, a team pausing the game as they're being initiated on is pretty much always at least a little suspicious.
On January 29 2012 05:33 Niton wrote: Even if it is legitimate, it's really shady to pause exactly at the moment where your team is supposed to be making split-second decisions.
How is it shady to pause for a legitimate reason at any point? What the fuck? CLG pauses there or they fight without Froggen. If they lose that fight and then end up losing the game, all because Froggen lagged out for a few seconds, then we're back to where we were a year ago. The pause feature was fucking added so shit like the Westrice DC at dreamhack wouldn't ruin tournaments anymore. Why even add the pause feature if teams are "shady" and "suspicious" for using it at critical junctures? Am I only allowed to pause if my teammate lags out while attacking the nexus after an ace?
Watch the VODs, pay attention to Anivia, and its reasonably clear that something is up with Froggen's control. Him not being in the fight would have had a much bigger impact on the game's outcome than the pause, especially since Janna had already made her "split-second decision". Putting CLG under suspicion for a completely legitimate use of pause, one that Mistral said was "np", is just silly.
Ideally, they would have a referee type system where one team would call for a pause and the ref would pause the game instead of the players (Riot seems to be pretty behind on observer features, so I doubt this will happen any time soon). I'm not really alright with one team pausing right in the middle of an engagement, but then again if you don't have vision on them it's hard to know what the other team is up to. I don't think that this was an abuse of pause, but there's nothing to say that it won't happen in the future.
On January 29 2012 05:33 Niton wrote: Even if it is legitimate, it's really shady to pause exactly at the moment where your team is supposed to be making split-second decisions.
How is it shady to pause for a legitimate reason at any point? What the fuck? CLG pauses there or they fight without Froggen. If they lose that fight and then end up losing the game, all because Froggen lagged out for a few seconds, then we're back to where we were a year ago. The pause feature was fucking added so shit like the Westrice DC at dreamhack wouldn't ruin tournaments anymore. Why even add the pause feature if teams are "shady" and "suspicious" for using it at critical junctures? Am I only allowed to pause if my teammate lags out while attacking the nexus after an ace?
Watch the VODs, pay attention to Anivia, and its reasonably clear that something is up with Froggen's control. Him not being in the fight would have had a much bigger impact on the game's outcome than the pause, especially since Janna had already made her "split-second decision". Putting CLG under suspicion for a completely legitimate use of pause, one that Mistral said was "np", is just silly.
How is it fair to the team initating? They are trying to take advantage of the reaction time of the opponent. By pausing you take the whole momentum out of the attack. You can coordinate with your team to attack whom and when. This is game deciding. It is shady.
On January 29 2012 05:33 Niton wrote: Even if it is legitimate, it's really shady to pause exactly at the moment where your team is supposed to be making split-second decisions.
How is it shady to pause for a legitimate reason at any point? What the fuck? CLG pauses there or they fight without Froggen. If they lose that fight and then end up losing the game, all because Froggen lagged out for a few seconds, then we're back to where we were a year ago. The pause feature was fucking added so shit like the Westrice DC at dreamhack wouldn't ruin tournaments anymore. Why even add the pause feature if teams are "shady" and "suspicious" for using it at critical junctures? Am I only allowed to pause if my teammate lags out while attacking the nexus after an ace?
Watch the VODs, pay attention to Anivia, and its reasonably clear that something is up with Froggen's control. Him not being in the fight would have had a much bigger impact on the game's outcome than the pause, especially since Janna had already made her "split-second decision". Putting CLG under suspicion for a completely legitimate use of pause, one that Mistral said was "np", is just silly.
How is it fair to the team initating? They are trying to take advantage of the reaction time of the opponent. By pausing you take the whole momentum out of the attack. You can coordinate with your team to attack whom and when. This is game deciding. It is shady.
On January 29 2012 05:33 Niton wrote: Even if it is legitimate, it's really shady to pause exactly at the moment where your team is supposed to be making split-second decisions.
How is it shady to pause for a legitimate reason at any point? What the fuck? CLG pauses there or they fight without Froggen. If they lose that fight and then end up losing the game, all because Froggen lagged out for a few seconds, then we're back to where we were a year ago. The pause feature was fucking added so shit like the Westrice DC at dreamhack wouldn't ruin tournaments anymore. Why even add the pause feature if teams are "shady" and "suspicious" for using it at critical junctures? Am I only allowed to pause if my teammate lags out while attacking the nexus after an ace?
Watch the VODs, pay attention to Anivia, and its reasonably clear that something is up with Froggen's control. Him not being in the fight would have had a much bigger impact on the game's outcome than the pause, especially since Janna had already made her "split-second decision". Putting CLG under suspicion for a completely legitimate use of pause, one that Mistral said was "np", is just silly.
How is it fair to the team initating? They are trying to take advantage of the reaction time of the opponent. By pausing you take the whole momentum out of the attack. You can coordinate with your team to attack whom and when. This is game deciding. It is shady.
It's more fair than requiring that one team play with a DC'd player.
On January 29 2012 05:33 Niton wrote: Even if it is legitimate, it's really shady to pause exactly at the moment where your team is supposed to be making split-second decisions.
How is it shady to pause for a legitimate reason at any point? What the fuck? CLG pauses there or they fight without Froggen. If they lose that fight and then end up losing the game, all because Froggen lagged out for a few seconds, then we're back to where we were a year ago. The pause feature was fucking added so shit like the Westrice DC at dreamhack wouldn't ruin tournaments anymore. Why even add the pause feature if teams are "shady" and "suspicious" for using it at critical junctures? Am I only allowed to pause if my teammate lags out while attacking the nexus after an ace?
Watch the VODs, pay attention to Anivia, and its reasonably clear that something is up with Froggen's control. Him not being in the fight would have had a much bigger impact on the game's outcome than the pause, especially since Janna had already made her "split-second decision". Putting CLG under suspicion for a completely legitimate use of pause, one that Mistral said was "np", is just silly.
How is it fair to the team initating? They are trying to take advantage of the reaction time of the opponent. By pausing you take the whole momentum out of the attack. You can coordinate with your team to attack whom and when. This is game deciding. It is shady.
And CLG had vision of all 4 Mistral members at Baron. And knew that Mistral had to try to engage. Kennen jumping in and ulting was not in anyway a surprise. CLG knew exactly what was going on in this situation and as evidenced by the screenshot which I guess I have to repost TADA(In it, you will see Janna casting her ult Monsoon and Kennen at a little over half after being hit by at least one Kog R and some autoattacks), already were reacting. The only one not reacting was Froggen, because he COULDNT FUCKING MOVE HIS CHARACTER.
If Froggen dced, the pause was justified. If someone would like to claim that CLG.eu was lying about that, then step right up. But please stop saying that pausing when one of your teammates can't move his champion is shady.
On January 29 2012 07:51 SirBlackJack wrote: You are not replying to any point I made. Get your fanboyism out of here please.
You said the pause took all the momentum out of the attack, and prevented Mistral from taking advantage of their opponent's reaction time. I am saying that the attack had no momentum, and that CLG obviously already had reacted when the pause occurred, except for Froggen who was unable to react due to lagging out.
Furthermore, your points only make sense if CLG was taken off guard by Mistral's initiation and failed to react before the pause. If you would like to claim that those conditions occurred, be my guest.
I would also be most appreciative if you could explain why exactly the fight continuing with Froggen unable to control his champion would be preferable.
mTl picked a lot of mobile champs so his usefullness was a bit limited by that but the vods are here: www.own3d.tv/OGamingTV (check the ogaming.tv international vods, have fun navigating it though ;P)
On January 29 2012 05:33 Niton wrote: Even if it is legitimate, it's really shady to pause exactly at the moment where your team is supposed to be making split-second decisions.
How is it shady to pause for a legitimate reason at any point? What the fuck? CLG pauses there or they fight without Froggen. If they lose that fight and then end up losing the game, all because Froggen lagged out for a few seconds, then we're back to where we were a year ago. The pause feature was fucking added so shit like the Westrice DC at dreamhack wouldn't ruin tournaments anymore. Why even add the pause feature if teams are "shady" and "suspicious" for using it at critical junctures? Am I only allowed to pause if my teammate lags out while attacking the nexus after an ace?
Watch the VODs, pay attention to Anivia, and its reasonably clear that something is up with Froggen's control. Him not being in the fight would have had a much bigger impact on the game's outcome than the pause, especially since Janna had already made her "split-second decision". Putting CLG under suspicion for a completely legitimate use of pause, one that Mistral said was "np", is just silly.
How is it fair to the team initating? They are trying to take advantage of the reaction time of the opponent. By pausing you take the whole momentum out of the attack. You can coordinate with your team to attack whom and when. This is game deciding. It is shady.
And CLG had vision of all 4 Mistral members at Baron. And knew that Mistral had to try to engage. Kennen jumping in and ulting was not in anyway a surprise. CLG knew exactly what was going on in this situation and as evidenced by the screenshot which I guess I have to repost TADA(In it, you will see Janna casting her ult Monsoon and Kennen at a little over half after being hit by at least one Kog R and some autoattacks), already were reacting. The only one not reacting was Froggen, because he COULDNT FUCKING MOVE HIS CHARACTER.
If Froggen dced, the pause was justified. If someone would like to claim that CLG.eu was lying about that, then step right up. But please stop saying that pausing when one of your teammates can't move his champion is shady.
Not to mention that the one who paused (Snoopeh) is one of the most mannered guys in the community and if you spend any time at all on his stream, you would see this is something he simply would not do. Wickd I could question, but not Froggen and definitely not Snoopeh
On January 29 2012 05:33 Niton wrote: Even if it is legitimate, it's really shady to pause exactly at the moment where your team is supposed to be making split-second decisions.
How is it shady to pause for a legitimate reason at any point? What the fuck? CLG pauses there or they fight without Froggen. If they lose that fight and then end up losing the game, all because Froggen lagged out for a few seconds, then we're back to where we were a year ago. The pause feature was fucking added so shit like the Westrice DC at dreamhack wouldn't ruin tournaments anymore. Why even add the pause feature if teams are "shady" and "suspicious" for using it at critical junctures? Am I only allowed to pause if my teammate lags out while attacking the nexus after an ace?
Watch the VODs, pay attention to Anivia, and its reasonably clear that something is up with Froggen's control. Him not being in the fight would have had a much bigger impact on the game's outcome than the pause, especially since Janna had already made her "split-second decision". Putting CLG under suspicion for a completely legitimate use of pause, one that Mistral said was "np", is just silly.
How is it fair to the team initating? They are trying to take advantage of the reaction time of the opponent. By pausing you take the whole momentum out of the attack. You can coordinate with your team to attack whom and when. This is game deciding. It is shady.
And CLG had vision of all 4 Mistral members at Baron. And knew that Mistral had to try to engage. Kennen jumping in and ulting was not in anyway a surprise. CLG knew exactly what was going on in this situation and as evidenced by the screenshot which I guess I have to repost TADA(In it, you will see Janna casting her ult Monsoon and Kennen at a little over half after being hit by at least one Kog R and some autoattacks), already were reacting. The only one not reacting was Froggen, because he COULDNT FUCKING MOVE HIS CHARACTER.
If Froggen dced, the pause was justified. If someone would like to claim that CLG.eu was lying about that, then step right up. But please stop saying that pausing when one of your teammates can't move his champion is shady.
Not to mention that the one who paused (Snoopeh) is one of the most mannered guys in the community and if you spend any time at all on his stream, you would see this is something he simply would not do. Wickd I could question, but not Froggen and definitely not Snoopeh
Yeah.. I over-reacted a bit. I'm always suspicious of western ESPORTS because of its long history of people abusing the smallest possible advantages, so at first it felt like it was just going to be the next minor scandal.
On January 29 2012 05:33 Niton wrote: Even if it is legitimate, it's really shady to pause exactly at the moment where your team is supposed to be making split-second decisions.
How is it shady to pause for a legitimate reason at any point? What the fuck? CLG pauses there or they fight without Froggen. If they lose that fight and then end up losing the game, all because Froggen lagged out for a few seconds, then we're back to where we were a year ago. The pause feature was fucking added so shit like the Westrice DC at dreamhack wouldn't ruin tournaments anymore. Why even add the pause feature if teams are "shady" and "suspicious" for using it at critical junctures? Am I only allowed to pause if my teammate lags out while attacking the nexus after an ace?
Watch the VODs, pay attention to Anivia, and its reasonably clear that something is up with Froggen's control. Him not being in the fight would have had a much bigger impact on the game's outcome than the pause, especially since Janna had already made her "split-second decision". Putting CLG under suspicion for a completely legitimate use of pause, one that Mistral said was "np", is just silly.
How is it fair to the team initating? They are trying to take advantage of the reaction time of the opponent. By pausing you take the whole momentum out of the attack. You can coordinate with your team to attack whom and when. This is game deciding. It is shady.
And CLG had vision of all 4 Mistral members at Baron. And knew that Mistral had to try to engage. Kennen jumping in and ulting was not in anyway a surprise. CLG knew exactly what was going on in this situation and as evidenced by the screenshot which I guess I have to repost TADA(In it, you will see Janna casting her ult Monsoon and Kennen at a little over half after being hit by at least one Kog R and some autoattacks), already were reacting. The only one not reacting was Froggen, because he COULDNT FUCKING MOVE HIS CHARACTER.
If Froggen dced, the pause was justified. If someone would like to claim that CLG.eu was lying about that, then step right up. But please stop saying that pausing when one of your teammates can't move his champion is shady.
Not to mention that the one who paused (Snoopeh) is one of the most mannered guys in the community and if you spend any time at all on his stream, you would see this is something he simply would not do. Wickd I could question, but not Froggen and definitely not Snoopeh
Yeah.. I over-reacted a bit. I'm always suspicious of western ESPORTS because of its long history of people abusing the smallest possible advantages, so at first it felt like it was just going to be the next minor scandal.
man, it's the same in all sports. they're here to win, first and foremost. watch some soccer, or any professional sport. if they can get a foul, they will dive for it.
Ehh why would you do Soraka with an AD kennen. Maybe Morg bot. Imo that would make more sense than pairing Soraka with a manaless champ, but then they will have no AD damage.
Wow mTL making this really one sided this time. Two towers destroyed, 7-0. 5k gold lead.
But then Sypher get baron while MTL does dragon, but catch some of Sypher when they're trying to get back to base after getting baron. GG now. mTL takes it sypher surrenders.
Maybe it's the french guys doing it for the Ogaming whatever that is, I don't understand french so I dunno, that's what I figured from the other song descrips.
Well, Wickd was so adamant that irelia counters shyvana and shyv can't push if she ain't let to do it and what's happening here?...Wickd..pushed at his tower and not even winning trades.
Neither team's obviously got the lovely LoS casters and we get, the timing marginals aren't that big on those jungle invade hits so if CLG wasn't this much on the ball they'd loes their jungle.
That early ward was really good, liked it.
and Jatt echoing what I said earlier about top lane.
On February 01 2012 03:09 DanielZKlein wrote: Wickd not leaving his lane. Could have come down and help. Was the top tower worth it?
Taking the tower against a pusher like Shyvana is a very good trade, it gives as much gold and if Shyvana wants to clear fast and get map control she'll have to push the lane back to tower and be very fragile to ganks.
It's not like taking the tower of a Nasus or of an Irelia, and this was really a good trade for CLG.
And thats why even if shyv is a decent pusher, she just isnt worth the damage you give up. Ire is dominating fights while shyv is basically only good for absorption, not good when you dont have an actual damage source from mid or the jungle.
Yea now top lane definately is gonna go poor for darien as wickd got all those kills, but imagine without those kills, does that lane not remind a lot what happened to TRM?
is shyvanna really freely pushing or is wickd letting him cause everytime he pushes then leaves lane to try and counter snoopeh and froggen attempt to gank him let they are baiting him
Against what team would this ever be a good idea? You have CV so you know that Maokai is doing the standard path and will be down at his bottom jungle by the time you get there. Sure, level 2 Mundo with red beats level 2 Maokai with just blue, but that's assuming that the lanes just stand there and watch you 1v1 in their jungle which is never going to happen in a high level tournament game.
I have no problems with him threatening it. Go in there, delay Snoopeh a little bit, that's fine. Sticking around and then trying to steal their red was a bad idea.
On February 01 2012 03:14 NotSorry wrote: is shyvanna really freely pushing or is wickd letting him cause everytime he pushes then leaves lane to try and counter snoopeh and froggen attempt to gank him let they are baiting him
I think wickd isn't pushing it too much because CLG is blue side. There's not too much to steal even if wickd lets him push to tower and everytime they go for blue CLG ends up winning. Anivia's build is tears, revolver and spirit visage
On February 01 2012 03:20 Itsmedudeman wrote: Sivir is gonna stomp MF in the mid game though.
End game is even worse. Sivir's ult and shield make her so much better, not to mention the cleanse that Yellowpete runs. Heal doesn't matter much for MF when Sivir's going to 4 hit her.
On February 01 2012 03:25 wei2coolman wrote: insert rainman bashing for not playing irelia correctly.
To be fair rainman pretty much did as well as wickd did here, it's just the team coordination was different and they just coordinated between mid, jungle, and top a lot better.
On February 01 2012 03:26 DanielZKlein wrote: Wow, what a game, CLG with nerves of steal, surviving dual utli from galio/mf and picking up almost everyone. And yes, those walls. So very very good.
On February 01 2012 03:25 wei2coolman wrote: insert rainman bashing for not playing irelia correctly.
To be fair rainman pretty much did as well as wickd did here, it's just the team coordination was different and they just coordinated between mid, jungle, and top a lot better.
On February 01 2012 03:26 Itsmedudeman wrote: m5 just don't know how to play from behind. They force 3v3s, 4v4s, 5v5s when they're behind and they lose.
I think its more that they are used to have superior teamplay. Normally, even from behind, they can win those fights. But CLG.EU trains that very methodically. They watch replays of their matches, discuss it maturely, and generally practice well. This is a true team.
On February 01 2012 03:25 wei2coolman wrote: insert rainman bashing for not playing irelia correctly.
To be fair rainman pretty much did as well as wickd did here, it's just the team coordination was different and they just coordinated between mid, jungle, and top a lot better.
rainman sucks at irelia rolf..
Same cs, got pushed in, what exactly was different besides what I said?
On February 01 2012 03:23 OreoBoi wrote: I feel like M5 has gotten way too predictable. CLG just seems to know, oh they're going to be here and they'll want to fight.
It was always predictable.
Its just every team not named TSM was bad at Kiev, and TOO is terrible when you throw him off his game.
It was the perfect storm for M5- a bunch of bad teams where that strat works very well, and the only a tier team there had a jungle who was poor against counterjungling.
On February 01 2012 03:26 Doctorbeat wrote: Genja played subpar this game really. His mf is bad compared to his Kennen or Sivir.
He actually did very well in lane. But that build really. No damage what so ever.
When Sivir got IE it all went downhill. Not to mention that his positioning has been bad. That fight at dragon he was just stuck there playing with the guns whilst his team was dying.
On February 01 2012 03:26 Doctorbeat wrote: Genja played subpar this game really. His mf is bad compared to his Kennen or Sivir.
He actually did very well in lane. But that build really. No damage what so ever.
When Sivir got IE it all went downhill. Not to mention that his positioning has been bad. That fight at dragon he was just stuck there playing with the guns whilst his team was dying.
He could have just ultied from the ledge 2 or 3 times while galio and sona ults were down, it would easily reached like 3 or 4 CLG members, but he waited till the wall melted, walked down and then ulted
On February 01 2012 03:25 wei2coolman wrote: insert rainman bashing for not playing irelia correctly.
To be fair rainman pretty much did as well as wickd did here, it's just the team coordination was different and they just coordinated between mid, jungle, and top a lot better.
rainman sucks at irelia rolf..
Same cs, got pushed in, what exactly was different besides what I said?
When Irelia has same cs compared to Shivanna she should do better in team fights. And that she did... Wickd went 8-0-3 and bought the aura items that helped his teams in these fights.
Froggens Anivia was even more important though imo
shyvanna went 3 times in 23mins to counter jungle, 2 of them she barely got out alive, the other time snoopeh and froggen were a little slow on closing in on her, wickd was leaving his ulti up and not popping W for creep clears when shyvanna left, so I don't feel like he was worried about stopping her from leaving as she wasn't likely to do anything even if she left, more like worse case shyvanna gets wolves and comes back, best case snoopeh and froggen close in on her and she dies for it
On February 01 2012 03:30 wei2coolman wrote: tbh, even when shyv left lane after pushing a lane, she didn't get much done.
I still think the Mundo was a poor pick for the 24/7 counter jungling they wanted to do. Had he been 6 before they spent 2 minutes contesting and all dying at blue, it might've been a different story.
On February 01 2012 03:23 OreoBoi wrote: I feel like M5 has gotten way too predictable. CLG just seems to know, oh they're going to be here and they'll want to fight.
It was always predictable.
Its just every team not named TSM was bad at Kiev, and TOO is terrible when you throw him off his game.
It was the perfect storm for M5- a bunch of bad teams where that strat works very well, and the only a tier team there had a jungle who was poor against counterjungling.
I think counterjungling is predictable by nature.
I've been playing Sejuani lately and you know on sight the junglers that will counterjungle you around your red jungle, so you have the support set the ward at wraiths and tell your lanes to collapse on it. You usually first blood the M5 copycat Shyv and things snowball for you.
All you do is be strong enough team wise to not lose the buff you sit at and ward the other one and it's pretty easy.
Did he not start out with building a wriggles, just like shyv? Aegis stuff came later and the lane matchup which Wickd stated he dominates easy was far gone at that point. He simply didn't dominate Darien out of lane like he bragged he did to several shyvs.
Not hating on wickd or anything, but people were jumping all over TRM and burning him at the stake for losing the matchup and then some pros go on how irelia is a counter to shyva lane, well clearly not so much!
I am very impressed with CLG's focus and prioritisation in team fights. That initial engage at that Baron fight didn't start so well for them with M5 stacking their Ults well. But Meowkai managed to drop his R, peaced out with Flash and Sivir managed to successfully disengage. Anivia and Irelia managed to force the tank lines to fight in Meokai's R and they zoned the threats off Sivir and drop Mundo fast. From there it was all clean up.
On February 01 2012 03:19 wei2coolman wrote: wow, really? spirit visage on anivia? wtf? i understand it synergizes well with wota, but really?
Froggen does this, builds HP heavy APs. Anivia's E bit similar to cassio's E allows you to build a lil less AP and more tank.
wth is genja saving that ult for? there was like 3 or 4 spots to land it on 4 guys while they couldn't get out of it and he just waiting
SV was actually a very clever pick. A significant amount of the enemy's damage was magic (half each of Shyvana and Mundo's damage, Galio + Sona), so MR was useful. CDR translated directly into more damage and faster combos, and health is always useful. The small synergy with WotA was just a bonus.
I hope you guys realize aegis is just the best all around tank item to get. He didn't get it just to be a support like when he gets starks on GP. Aegis is insanely good and probably needs a nerf.
Also, I don't know why you guys are complaining about MF or her build. Sivir basically didn't do anything to win that game it was all froggen/wickd killing everyone really.
On February 01 2012 03:25 wei2coolman wrote: insert rainman bashing for not playing irelia correctly.
To be fair rainman pretty much did as well as wickd did here, it's just the team coordination was different and they just coordinated between mid, jungle, and top a lot better.
rainman sucks at irelia rolf..
Same cs, got pushed in, what exactly was different besides what I said?
When Irelia has same cs compared to Shivanna she should do better in team fights. And that she did... Wickd went 8-0-3 and bought the aura items that helped his teams in these fights.
Froggens Anivia was even more important though imo
tbh I think froggens build on anivia is too conservative. now don't get me wrong, his mechanics with anivia is really really strong, but the build makes lategame damage out put a lot more minimal, and delays those huge AP items like DC.
Also I was interested as why he got spirit visage over warmogs? and why wota over the mejais? (he did warmog/mejais in semifinals)
Also, really strong irelia play from wick'd (out of lane).
Is it just me, or did Darien + Diamondprox pretty much cost them the game? Both the engages at 2nd at 3rd blue Darien had terrible positioning, fx. Darien comming in after Alex had used his ult. And I think Diamond's Mundo was too aggressive and didn't realize that Aniva wall destroyed his invades. Really dissapointed by those two, since I think the rest of the team played well.
Wickd didn't need to win trades in lane. He realized he needs to not die to jungle pressure early, and built Aegis for his team, not for the lane.
It's amazing how well clg.eu reacts to these pressures. In the first mundo invade on red, anivia does *not* move from mid, and maokai doesn't engage at all. I didn't see if Anivia was close to leveling, but they correctly realized that they were not in a favorable position; maokai cannot win 1v1, and galio will immediately follow anivia and probably win the 2v2 with bulwark and higher damage. Bottom could not help - they were pressed into their tower and a little low, so they would have to run along the bottom and into the golem brush to help, and in doing so mundo would back off and bot lane would lose over an entire creep wave. So maokai patiently waited about 20 seconds for the perfect opportunity.
TOO would try to engage, they would lose the 2v2, and would lose the game from there. Not to mention TSM wouldn't ward that area to be in position to engage in the first place.
The two encounters in blue, as well as the 5v5 at dragon, are also examples of just how freaking scary this team is because they are so patient and wait for the right opportunity.
On February 01 2012 03:25 wei2coolman wrote: insert rainman bashing for not playing irelia correctly.
To be fair rainman pretty much did as well as wickd did here, it's just the team coordination was different and they just coordinated between mid, jungle, and top a lot better.
rainman sucks at irelia rolf..
Same cs, got pushed in, what exactly was different besides what I said?
When Irelia has same cs compared to Shivanna she should do better in team fights. And that she did... Wickd went 8-0-3 and bought the aura items that helped his teams in these fights.
Froggens Anivia was even more important though imo
tbh I think froggens build on anivia is too conservative. now don't get me wrong, his mechanics with anivia is really really strong, but the build makes lategame damage out put a lot more minimal, and delays those huge AP items like DC.
Also I was interested as why he got spirit visage over warmogs? and why wota over the mejais? (he did warmog/mejais in semifinals)
Also, really strong irelia play from wick'd (out of lane).
A ton of teams focus on the early game over the mid game so they can snowball as that game showed.
TBH the mundo pick wasnt the problem that game. They lost it by running galio. If they had someone like LB or any burst caster then they would have had a lot more early game power. They just didnt have enough damage in the 3v3s.
I guess something with the picks made Froggen to diverse away from his warmogs mejais build, probably the possibility of M5 stacking a galio ult + sona ult and getting him killed. He probably goes his mogs mejai build against comps that aren't that CC heavy.
On February 01 2012 03:36 Papvin wrote: Is it just me, or did Darien + Diamondprox pretty much cost them the game? Both the engages at 2nd at 3rd blue Darien had terrible positioning, fx. Darien comming in after Alex had used his ult. And I think Diamond's Mundo was too aggressive and didn't realize that Aniva wall destroyed his invades. Really dissapointed by those two, since I think the rest of the team played well.
I don't like the mundo pick, it doesn't offer enough damage for such an aggressive invasion focused strategy. And galio/shyvanna aren't really super hard hitters as well, irelia/maokai/anivia, simply did too much damage, and offered more CC, which is important to deal with invasion. they just got out comp'd, at least in terms of invasion strength.
On February 01 2012 03:38 Two_DoWn wrote: TBH the mundo pick wasnt the problem that game. They lost it by running galio. If they had someone like LB or any burst caster then they would have had a lot more early game power. They just didnt have enough damage in the 3v3s.
Except lb isn't capable of putting pressure on creeps in the lane so you can counter jungle.
On February 01 2012 03:38 Two_DoWn wrote: TBH the mundo pick wasnt the problem that game. They lost it by running galio. If they had someone like LB or any burst caster then they would have had a lot more early game power. They just didnt have enough damage in the 3v3s.
Except lb isn't capable of putting pressure on creeps in the lane so you can counter jungle.
^this, very good point. you can't compromise lane pushing for invasion, the jungler has to be the change, not the mid lane. tbh it was the lack of hard cc that made the invasions suck balls.
On February 01 2012 03:36 Slayer91 wrote: Spirit visage is 15% more heals from soraka, btw.
Spirit Visage hasn't worked that way in ages. It was explicitly changed so that it only works on your personal heals/regen/life steal/spell vamp, not any outside sources.
On February 01 2012 03:36 Slayer91 wrote: Spirit visage is 15% more heals from soraka, btw.
Spirit Visage hasn't worked that way in ages. It was explicitly changed so that it only works on your personal heals/regen/life steal/spell vamp, not any outside sources.
^
Again, the SV wasn't for the increased regen, but because it's very cheap and offers him the right stats. He needs MR to counter Abyssal (SV, Aegis, and Soraka gives him enough MR to not die to the aoe magic damage), CDR for more damage/pokes/walls, and the extra hp always helps. He didn't need to spend 3k on warmog to survive, so he goes with SV instead.
wickd is way more aggresive, trade hits with shyvana, push the lane and go base 3x more than TRM, helps team if necessary, leading the team, especially in teamfight... leading the team is the key playing irelia imho.
TRM basically last hit under the tower, has no idea whats going on with mid, jungle or mid. hes doing last hit well though, TRM go base 3x less than his opponent... which works well only if he was teemo, yorick, trynd etc... in the team fight, TRM is way more passive and brainless than wickd imho..
wickd's irelia was 6-0 20min in game1 rolf
have you ever seen therainman go 6-0 on any champion in any games?
TRM is good at teemo, but definitely not at irelia for sure.
On February 01 2012 03:36 Slayer91 wrote: Spirit visage is 15% more heals from soraka, btw.
Spirit Visage hasn't worked that way in ages. It was explicitly changed so that it only works on your personal heals/regen/life steal/spell vamp, not any outside sources.
On February 01 2012 03:43 daemir wrote: Bot lane really interesting, TF ports down with Urgot ult, auch
Janna is great vs Suppress/TF ports though...
Without a doubt, but unless TF ports on top of Urgot or just lets Urgot initiate with the ult, then janna is hard pressed to keep them both off of kog.
Although Ahri could very well just slaughter TF in the lane from the getgo,especially with rammus ganks.
Hm, even though I don't like karthus, I think it would have been pretty good in this situation where they have tf mid. Between karthus and gp ult they can send a lot of help anywhere they want.
On February 01 2012 03:43 daemir wrote: Bot lane really interesting, TF ports down with Urgot ult, auch
Janna is great vs Suppress/TF ports though...
Janna is a great pick for a few reasons. Her passive is going to help Rammus and GP all game. Her tornado can cancel urgot ult, her ult can counter tf ganks. Janna is also one of the strongest supports after the laning phase. Even if CLG leave the laning phase a little behind I think they'll have a huge advantage.
On February 01 2012 03:43 daemir wrote: Bot lane really interesting, TF ports down with Urgot ult, auch
Janna is great vs Suppress/TF ports though...
Janna is a great pick for a few reasons. Her passive is going to help Rammus and GP all game. Her tornado can cancel urgot ult, her ult can counter tf ganks. Janna is also one of the strongest supports after the laning phase. Even if CLG leave the laning phase a little behind I think they'll have a huge advantage.
Not to mention the fact that CLG has Rammus vs Triple AD. And M5 only really has Sona ult or LS kick for a hard engage by Rammus.
m5's team looks like it has better tower sieging capability. TF + Urgot poke will be nasty, especially with Sona and Lee Sin thrown in, and CLG doesn't have strong sustain.
Midlane is where CLG can really make very early plays, mid and jungler both having a taunt vs TF who is really not all that great vs ganks in the first place.
Wickd's reaction time is kind of ridiculous. Literally flashed out of that 1st gank instantly and a really quick reaction to start running down river on the 2nd one.
If protect Kog works, Kog is by far superior to Urgot, but Urgot real lane bully. Would like to see TF ganks bot to make that lane work on M5s favor, they need the early game edge with urgot.
Sona could use more mp5 to keep up harassing, been OOM since like minute 3.
On February 01 2012 03:55 arnath wrote: Wickd's reaction time is kind of ridiculous. Literally flashed out of that 1st gank instantly and a really quick reaction to start running down river on the 2nd one.
He E'd and flashed at exact the same moment that LS Q came flying to him.
I'm assuming when he's pushed up like that he's assuming he'll be ganked at any second. When you're mentally thinking about it reacting like that is easier, though still very impressive.
It really looks like m5 is losing all three lanes so far.
Ahri demolishing tf right now even when they're on even items (actually tf had a dorans on ahri). The burst from ahri once she hits level 6 with ignite is enough to 100-0 a tf, but tf needs two sets of cooldowns and has a lot less mobility.
On February 01 2012 04:01 Two_DoWn wrote: Snoopeh is the jungler TOO wishes he could be. Same style, Snoopeh is just better.
SV v Snoopeh is probably the highest level jungler matchup we could see now. All the better that they play different styles.
What would you say each of their styles are?
In unrelated news, I think it's really stupid that Shyvana can insta-kill wards that are placed near her with her Q. No other ability in the game works like this.
On February 01 2012 04:05 Bluebush wrote: Anyone else really enjoying the commentary? Jatt's been doing a great job with the analysis IMO
Jatt is a huge relief as far as commentary goes. Finally we have an ex pro that really knows his shit talking about the small intricacies in matchups and general game strategies. Also props for Deman for relayin analysis questions to Jatt. They're working great together
Jatt is pretty much the best shoutcaster I've heard in this game so far. He both speaks pleasantly and delivers great insights. Man I wanna cast with him.
On February 01 2012 04:07 DanielZKlein wrote: Jatt is pretty much the best shoutcaster I've heard in this game so far. He both speaks pleasantly and delivers great insights. Man I wanna cast with him.
On February 01 2012 04:01 Two_DoWn wrote: Snoopeh is the jungler TOO wishes he could be. Same style, Snoopeh is just better.
SV v Snoopeh is probably the highest level jungler matchup we could see now. All the better that they play different styles.
What would you say each of their styles are?
In unrelated news, I think it's really stupid that Shyvana can insta-kill wards that are placed near her with her Q. No other ability in the game works like this.
Snoopeh and TOO play a much more team oriented game- they like jungles that have strong early ganks and focus on putting their lanes ahead. The trade off is that they tend to lose out on power as the game goes on.
Saint farms much harder and uses his ganks selectively- making sure to optimize the amount of farm time rather than gank time. He carries his farm MUCH better than any other jungler in the game as well- every buy and creep clear is optimized. Late game he builds as another damage source rather than a straight tank, even on characters like Skarner (he gets a triforce quite often).
Of course both are capable of playing the other way as well, but they are the best in the world at their respective styles.
On February 01 2012 04:07 DanielZKlein wrote: Jatt is pretty much the best shoutcaster I've heard in this game so far. He both speaks pleasantly and delivers great insights. Man I wanna cast with him.
Really bad positioning by CLG. Took a sona ult to like 3-4 players couldn't tell, and then they were all grouped together and m5 could focus whoever they wanted and a lot of aoe dmg hurt ahri and kogmaw.
Hahaha. Here at the Riot offices, just after this teamfight, three dudes pulled off their headsets, looked at each other and went like, what the hell happened.
On February 01 2012 04:11 daemir wrote: Holy crap, 3 man gank, all use ultis and he nearly kills 2 of them. Shyvana OP! :d
See, that's what I hate when people say "shyvana isn't the problem". Like, it doesn't matter if taking out shyvana from picks doesn't take away what m5's gameplan is, she's just a strong ass hero in general and darien always does well every game with her.
I think the difference right there is that the control for Rammus' Powerball is fucking terrible. Why can't I right click on someone to hit them with Powerball? It's really hard to Powerball into people/creeps that are near walls because of this quirk.
On February 01 2012 04:11 daemir wrote: Holy crap, 3 man gank, all use ultis and he nearly kills 2 of them. Shyvana OP! :d
See, that's what I hate when people say "shyvana isn't the problem". Like, it doesn't matter if taking out shyvana from picks doesn't take away what m5's gameplan is, she's just a strong ass hero in general and darien always does well every game with her.
I know, I was facepalming all Kiev long when teams simply refused to ban it, damn there's more than the gimmicky reasons they keep picking it. Darien is genuinely good with it.
Urgot build very interesting, also tf porting into the dragon pit, directly into an ahri taunt and q, I felt for a second clg was going to jump in there.
This is easily one of the best games I've seen in forever. Never count out the Russians!
Also has anyone noticed the viewer numbers? Yeah, like, what. Maybe tell your friends on facebook? If this goes to three games, we may hit 90k between English and French streams.
brutalizer the first damage item urgot building, other than his inital dorans blade, seems to be working really well though. Also everytime tf ports in, I feel like he is way too aggressive, but m5 manages to make it work wow.
On February 01 2012 04:20 Woony wrote: In that last fight TF just caseynelson'd into 4 people to initiate the fight OO
What is a caseynelson?
Player that only played Ashe for an eternity I think. The term comes from one game on Hotshot's stream where he played TF, fed like hell and in one fight ulted for about 10 yards into 4 people and died instantly which was hilarious.
On February 01 2012 04:20 DanielZKlein wrote: This is easily one of the best games I've seen in forever. Never count out the Russians!
Also has anyone noticed the viewer numbers? Yeah, like, what. Maybe tell your friends on facebook? If this goes to three games, we may hit 90k between English and French streams.
Well for the stream numbers, this would be a good thing to point out to all the people who went downplaying the Kiev numbers "well riot put the stream in the game client"
This finals ain't, I don't even see it in the news section on client and the english stream is up 66k. The game really is that popular. Which is awesome \o/
Hmm. I think this game is demonstrating the problem with the 3 dorans wriggles build. Its safe in lane, but just doesnt offer the killing power kog needs to get rid of shyv. Hell, I actually think a BR and wits rush would have been the best build.
On February 01 2012 04:20 Woony wrote: In that last fight TF just caseynelson'd into 4 people to initiate the fight OO
What is a caseynelson?
Player that only played Ashe for an eternity I think. The term comes from one game on Hotshot's stream where he played TF, fed like hell and in one fight ulted for about 10 yards into 4 people and died instantly which was hilarious.
I have a friend named Casey Nelson that used to play lol a lot, wondering if it's the same one
On February 01 2012 04:26 Two_DoWn wrote: Hmm. I think this game is demonstrating the problem with the 3 dorans wriggles build. Its safe in lane, but just doesnt offer the killing power kog needs to get rid of shyv. Hell, I actually think a BR and wits rush would have been the best build.
Worth noting, it's not only shyvana - he can only kill sona and tf right now.
Kog has a built in bloodrazor. Bloodrazor don't scale with crit so it won't be all that great. 200 Damage bloodrazor proc reduced to 66 extra damage per hit because of the 200 mr on 5000 health. Not that big a deal.
I'm under the impression that it was CLG playing real bad those teamfights rather than M5 doing so well. I only saw them stack up right under Sona's nose several times, when they weren't trying to down a no-damage GA-equipped Urgot. I don't get it.
Kog went bloodstriker first and I really don't like that build. I mean, I guess it's ok, but I gotta say an IE would've helped out a lot in those team fights.
On February 01 2012 04:32 Senx wrote: why wouldnt kog go bloodrazor vs such a tanky team?
Also why does it feel like people still dont respect shyvanas importance for m5.. like wtf
What was Bloodrazor going to do against all that MR?
I think the problem is that the 3dorans+wriggles just doesnt scale enough. If you give the time, shyvana will outscale damage incredibly quickly. If your damage is above her tank, then she never catches up, and vise versa.
Instead kog LET her outscale him and pretty much lost the game because of it. A super fast BR might have been enough to crush shyv at that drag fight, or even an IE+greaves. But as we saw, 3 blades and wriggles is just not enough.
On February 01 2012 04:34 Alaric wrote: I'm under the impression that it was CLG playing real bad those teamfights rather than M5 doing so well. I only saw them stack up right under Sona's nose several times, when they weren't trying to down a no-damage GA-equipped Urgot. I don't get it.
Who else are they supposed to focus? Sona and TF stay back doing only poke, Shyv is unkillable because dragon form + shit tons of HP, and Lee Sin can just jump to his team. I do feel that CLG got baited a few times by urgot ulting into the 5 of them though.
On February 01 2012 04:32 Senx wrote: why wouldnt kog go bloodrazor vs such a tanky team?
Also why does it feel like people still dont respect shyvanas importance for m5.. like wtf
What was Bloodrazor going to do against all that MR?
Wouldn't it still increase the damage done to Shyvana regardless, simply because of how much health she has?
If you work the math on IE PD vs BR PD, it probably wouldn't have made a big difference. Remember Shyvana only just built the 2x warmogs as last items, it was originally a resistances heavy shyvana. Wits, wriggles, mercs, phage, with large resistance boost from dragon form.
On February 01 2012 04:34 Alaric wrote: I'm under the impression that it was CLG playing real bad those teamfights rather than M5 doing so well. I only saw them stack up right under Sona's nose several times, when they weren't trying to down a no-damage GA-equipped Urgot. I don't get it.
Who else are they supposed to focus? Sona and TF stay back doing only poke, Shyv is unkillable because dragon form + shit tons of HP, and Lee Sin can just jump to his team. I do feel that CLG got baited a few times by urgot ulting into the 5 of them though.
They should've focused shyv over urgot at least. Shyv is right there not gonna kite you, does a shit ton of damage, and honestly, even though she's tanky she can still die to focused burst really easily with ignite on her.
On February 01 2012 04:39 daSilvaz wrote: Also not having a decent iniciate while other team has tons of stuns and knockbacks and whatnot really hurt them.
They've got rammus and ahri charm and janna nado. Not bad, really.
m5's poke ability was also a huge factor. The damage CLG incurred before that critical dragon fight wasn't as bad as what happened to m5 the game before, but it was still significant. It showed up again later when m5 was pushing with baron. All 5 of m5's picks had some form of poke, with TF and Urgot being especially nasty. It really made defending against their pushes painful at best.
I've been thinking about how to play Urgot as a support lately, since his toolkit is really good as a tanky support role. His autoattacks reduces enemy damage output, he has a slow, a percentage armor shred, and a good initiation with a suppresion and defense buffs. My first thought was to just support the AD carry to be more of a force, but, the biggest problem is laning. But the way M5 ran Urgot is really interesting.
What do you guys think about running an AD bruiser jungle and top with tanky Urgot bot? Bruiser meta comeback?
Well Urgot had GA, FH, and no damage items. Shyvana doesn't really need to build damage to inflict them, since she just has to dish out an all-AoE kit in dragon form while simply being there. Not carry levels w/o damage built, but still a lot, and a lot more than Urgot.
What really made me facepalm though are the Sona ults: all CLG jumping on one guy (sometimes even her)? BAM, four of them ulted. After seeing them playing so well against Galio, such naiveté about Sona is really disappointing. :/
That's actually something we overlooked, Urgot was all over Kog'maw every team fight. As a result Kog'maw's damage was reduced by 15% all the time. Between that and Kog'maw's item build he simply wasn't doing damage.
Running tanky urgot was made posible by Dariens shayvana. They wouldn't have the damage needed without her. I think CLG played poor when they were focusing Urgot, should've switched upon Twisted Fate or Shayvana. Even if shayvana was tanky, I do think it would prevent alot of damage.
On February 01 2012 04:33 Two_DoWn wrote: Also important to note:
Janna is the worst support to bring when the enemy has a shyvana. Her peel just isnt effective against shyvana.
I don't understand - which support would be more useful against a Shyvana? I can't think of any support other than Alistar that has comparable peel, and I don't see what else would have helped more. I'm also confused about how ineffective Janna's peel was - like I saw that it was hardly doing anything, but don't understand why Shyvana was so unaffected (is it just her AoE and increased movement speed?).
Urgot's passive can put some pretty serious hurting on 2 DPS on the enemy team at the same time, and both Ahri and Kog'maw are a lot less threatening doing 15% less damage. Urgot as an offtank makes sense in that context, because his passive is stupidly strong if you're not reliant on his damage.
On February 01 2012 04:33 Two_DoWn wrote: Also important to note:
Janna is the worst support to bring when the enemy has a shyvana. Her peel just isnt effective against shyvana.
I don't understand - which support would be more useful against a Shyvana? I can't think of any support other than Alistar that has comparable peel, and I don't see what else would have helped more. I'm also confused about how ineffective Janna's peel was - like I saw that it was hardly doing anything, but don't understand why Shyvana was so unaffected (is it just her AoE and increased movement speed?).
You need hard cc. The knockup is the only useful thing in her kit for shyvana. shyv w and ult let her ignore slows and knockbacks, which is the rest of janna's kit.
Healers like sona and soraka are good- ones that specialize in keeping the divee alive rather than try to get rid of the shyvana.
The other way to go (which I like better) is go more offensive on her- leona and blitz- chars that can lock down shyvana and prevent her from doing what she wants to do.
But basically the biggest way to make shyvana a non factor is just have your damage outscale her tank. If you do that, you win the game.
On February 01 2012 04:53 DanielZKlein wrote: Why pick Taric over Gangplank, CLG?
They apparently thought GP could be easily countered, so they picked a support (who M5 can't counterpick really as they picked sona).
But by picking their support they let m5 get Gangplank. Were they really worried that m5 was going to grab Taric? No reason to grab their support early and give up a good champion when there was no chance of him being taken.
Interesting runepages from Kennen and Shyvanananana. Would explain a few things actually come to think about it. Also interesting that none of the supports are using Gold Quints and prefer HP Quints.
Jatt is SO GOOD at this. Have I mentioned this before? I never want to cast again. This guy is putting us all to shame. The amount of insight! The entertainment! These guys just made a 3 minute spectator delay compelling viewing. Holy fuck!
And I really have to go out and have dinner with the EU office and Pendragon now. SO SAD. No Uncle Riot, I do not want a first class free meal, I want to watch this tournament!
Now, can I stay unspoiled until I see a VOD? Probably not going to happen.
On February 01 2012 05:02 DanielZKlein wrote: Jatt is SO GOOD at this. Have I mentioned this before? I never want to cast again. This guy is putting us all to shame. The amount of insight! The entertainment! These guys just made a 3 minute spectator delay compelling viewing. Holy fuck!
And I really have to go out and have dinner with the EU office and Pendragon now. SO SAD. No Uncle Riot, I do not want a first class free meal, I want to watch this tournament!
Now, can I stay unspoiled until I see a VOD? Probably not going to happen.
damn, I'd like to have your problems! have yourself something nice.
On February 01 2012 05:02 DanielZKlein wrote: Jatt is SO GOOD at this. Have I mentioned this before? I never want to cast again. This guy is putting us all to shame. The amount of insight! The entertainment! These guys just made a 3 minute spectator delay compelling viewing. Holy fuck!
And I really have to go out and have dinner with the EU office and Pendragon now. SO SAD. No Uncle Riot, I do not want a first class free meal, I want to watch this tournament!
Now, can I stay unspoiled until I see a VOD? Probably not going to happen.
Jatt should really be a feature at future LANs. It'd be pretty cool. But your personality also works well with other casters too. Zenon+Jatt would be interesting!
Tell Pendragon that TL and the Wrenchies deserve some free RP, kk?
On February 01 2012 05:05 BobMcJohnson wrote: I'm not sure giving Kennen blue was a mistake, didn't they play a game at Kiev where they gave Kennen level 1 blue already?
I'm not sure why, but i remember them doing it already.
They could have given it so he would hit lvl 2 before Sivir.
On February 01 2012 05:05 BobMcJohnson wrote: I'm not sure giving Kennen blue was a mistake, didn't they play a game at Kiev where they gave Kennen level 1 blue already?
I'm not sure why, but i remember them doing it already.
They could have given it so he would hit lvl 2 before Sivir.
Maybe yes, iirc the casters had ruled it as a mistake at Kiev as well.
On February 01 2012 05:05 BobMcJohnson wrote: I'm not sure giving Kennen blue was a mistake, didn't they play a game at Kiev where they gave Kennen level 1 blue already?
I'm not sure why, but i remember them doing it already.
Was mistake then, is mistake again. They defo wanted that blue on GP to press that Q harder on riven.
Was just watching oce's stream, he watching the tournament while eating, the second cass wen 3-0, he said the game was over :/ most likely true, lets see how it plays out.
On February 01 2012 05:17 Ziken wrote: Was just watching oce's stream, he watching the tournament while eating, the second cass wen 3-0, he said the game was over :/ most likely true, lets see how it plays out.
On February 01 2012 05:17 Ziken wrote: Was just watching oce's stream, he watching the tournament while eating, the second cass wen 3-0, he said the game was over :/ most likely true, lets see how it plays out.
'cause he has a massive bias for cass
Despite the fact cass is probably his favourite, and a really strong AP, you can't argue that the kills arent going to the right person. And I think his comment also had to do with how the game has developed to a point where, the margin of error from which you can come back is really minimal. To be honest, I was really suprised M5 came back that 2nd game, though imo, that had more to do with clg focusing urgot, and in that sense, it was more clg giving m5 the game, although of course m5 played well.
I'm kinda worried about the way CLG got themselves killed those few last times by being too cocky tho. After last game, I'd have expected them to play more safely once their lead secured.
95 000 viewers (cumulated streams) with 0 Riot promotion/advertisement on a euro only tournament at a shitty time for US viewers, on a week day. So much for the haters.
Actually I think it was a smart trade. CLG already had a big advantage and m5 probably couldn't stop them without Kennen. By taking Baron they now have bonus stats which help even out power in team fights for a while, and will buy them some time to farm up.
Edit: Case in point, Baron translated into a free dragon.
On February 01 2012 05:33 Craton wrote: Ahri is a hard-snowballing assassin that's almost ungankable, while Cass is just a pretty standard mage on par with several other common choices.
On February 01 2012 05:28 Itsmedudeman wrote: I've always thought cassio was like THE most underrated hero. So fucking good
6 months ago sure, but she's been known to be quite strong for awhile now. She was hugely picked at IEM and is popular in solo queue as well.
She's picked a lot, but not banned a lot. I think she's a stronger hero than ahri yet ahri is banned every single game.
Probably because I'm not scared at all if my opponent has cassiopeia because they usually fail. She requires so much skill to play properly. It's kind of like how Anivia used to be some time ago. Or even Ryze right now... and yes Ryze takes a lot of skill even though everyone denies it >_> Like TheOddOne "Ryze is so easy even I can play him" and I saw him play an absolutely horrendously terribly horrible Ryze in a level 23 game or whatever, so yeah...
CLG going a bit too crazy for the GP and ends up paying for it. That mao ult was pretty perfect, though. M5 squeaks out again with a couple lucky lives.
they tried to chase sivir too long in that baron fight, she was already out and away and they were just walking at her getting these asses beat by the rest of the team
i wasn't really watching what cass did in the baron fight, but sivir basically did 90% of the damage on 3 targets in a row and just steamrolled through everything
On February 01 2012 05:51 Itsmedudeman wrote: Now I'm REALLY lookin forward to CLG.eu vs. CLG.na scrims. Hotshot has also been playing a lot better lately.
On February 01 2012 05:51 Itsmedudeman wrote: Now I'm REALLY lookin forward to CLG.eu vs. CLG.na scrims. Hotshot has also been playing a lot better lately.
So that you can see clg.na get rolled? >_>
All depends n which server it will be played.
CLGeu vs TSM scrims should be better because of better ping.
I don't know why they started baron when Karth couldn't damage baron and poke at the same time, M5 were in an advantageous position and should've kept on poking from that position until CLG engage them or back off from poke. I'm sure Karth was telling the team to stop doing baron as he wasn't hitting it and his team was taking free damage with their tanks not in position to protect Karth from getting jumped on by Riven/Cass.
On February 01 2012 05:52 zulu_nation8 wrote: I don't know why they started baron when Karth couldn't damage baron and poke at the same time, M5 were in an advantageous position and should've kept on poking from that position until CLG engage them or back off from poke. I'm sure Karth was telling the team to stop doing baron as he wasn't hitting it and his team was taking free damage with their tanks not in position to protect Karth from getting jumped on by Riven/Cass.
Ya, I think baron was a dumb decision, but I seriously don't know what the hell gp was doing bot without his ult. Seriously, if clg just played that better they could've initiated a 4v5 so easily and just won right there. I think when m5 did baron they thought sivir ulti was down but it just came up. 5 seconds later and they could've gotten baron.
On February 01 2012 05:52 zulu_nation8 wrote: I don't know why they started baron when Karth couldn't damage baron and poke at the same time, M5 were in an advantageous position and should've kept on poking from that position until CLG engage them or back off from poke. I'm sure Karth was telling the team to stop doing baron as he wasn't hitting it and his team was taking free damage with their tanks not in position to protect Karth from getting jumped on by Riven/Cass.
Ya, I think baron was a dumb decision, but I seriously don't know what the hell gp was doing bot without his ult. Seriously, if clg just played that better they could've initiated a 4v5 so easily and just won right there. I think when m5 did baron they thought sivir ulti was down but it just came up. 5 seconds later and they could've gotten baron.
The GP did have tp, would likely have used it if a fight broke out.
On February 01 2012 05:54 NotSorry wrote: really a shame clg.eu has been kind of screwed out of tournaments and unable to show just how good they are
I'm personally very interested to see if they can find a way to qualify for IEM Hannover (is that even possible now?) or whether they can find a way to qualify for the Season 2 Championship since they don't have any IEM or Season points right now.
On February 01 2012 05:51 Itsmedudeman wrote: Now I'm REALLY lookin forward to CLG.eu vs. CLG.na. Hotshot has also been playing a lot better lately.
I really hope jiji can hold his lane vs Froggen.
I think froggen will win that matchup, but I think bot lane is stronger and clg.na's teamwork and team fights are stronger. Just my opinion though.
Doublelift has his moments of full retard though. I hope Chauster is able to stop those from happening.
Doublelift's mechanics are always a pleasure to watch, especially his Vayne, Cait and Corki micro. However I agree that his decision making is so bad. He'd easily be one of the best players if it wasn't for that. Listening to Double and Chauster in vent when they duo, you can see how out of it Doublelift can be some time.
On February 01 2012 05:54 NotSorry wrote: really a shame clg.eu has been kind of screwed out of tournaments and unable to show just how good they are
I'm personally very interested to see if they can find a way to qualify for IEM Hannover (is that even possible now?) or whether they can find a way to qualify for the Season 2 Championship since they don't have any IEM or Season points right now.
Hey guys, just dropped by to say thanks for the feedback and for watching.
I honestly had no clue how this tourney was going to turn out before I clicked the stream button on Friday and myself and Jatt have been pretty blown away by how popular it quickly became. Some awesome matches throughout the tourney topped by an epic final.
On February 01 2012 09:02 Deman wrote: Hey guys, just dropped by to say thanks for the feedback and for watching.
I honestly had no clue how this tourney was going to turn out before I clicked the stream button on Friday and myself and Jatt have been pretty blown away by how popular it quickly became. Some awesome matches throughout the tourney topped by an epic final.
Next up, Go4LoL weekly on Sunday.
this is like the most smooth online tournament so far imho good games, no delays, good commentary, all good overall. thanks!
On February 01 2012 09:02 Deman wrote: Hey guys, just dropped by to say thanks for the feedback and for watching.
I honestly had no clue how this tourney was going to turn out before I clicked the stream button on Friday and myself and Jatt have been pretty blown away by how popular it quickly became. Some awesome matches throughout the tourney topped by an epic final.
Next up, Go4LoL weekly on Sunday.
Very well done, casting with Jatt was chill to listen to. Not to mention the awesome games you ended up having, the finals were (next to the IEM Kiev finals) the best series I have seen in a long time. Stream was smooth, and holy balls so many viewers.
On February 01 2012 09:02 Deman wrote: Hey guys, just dropped by to say thanks for the feedback and for watching.
I honestly had no clue how this tourney was going to turn out before I clicked the stream button on Friday and myself and Jatt have been pretty blown away by how popular it quickly became. Some awesome matches throughout the tourney topped by an epic final.
Next up, Go4LoL weekly on Sunday.
Great job Deman. I've always loved your commentary, and having Jatt there was just a revelation. He's definitely the commentator that the scene needs(no offense to you at all, I get really sad when your youtube channel has no updates for 3 weeks at a time). The tournament was stellar, and I'm glad we had some great commentary to go with it.
On February 01 2012 09:02 Deman wrote: Hey guys, just dropped by to say thanks for the feedback and for watching.
I honestly had no clue how this tourney was going to turn out before I clicked the stream button on Friday and myself and Jatt have been pretty blown away by how popular it quickly became. Some awesome matches throughout the tourney topped by an epic final.
Next up, Go4LoL weekly on Sunday.
Thanks for casting! Glad you remembered our little corner of the Internet And I just want to say that I really liked your play-by-play and I think that it's gotten a lot better now that you've started channeling the excitement of Korean commentators. Makes the matches much more interesting.
On February 01 2012 08:16 Hemes wrote: Grand Final VOD CLG.eu vs M5 Game 1 + Show Spoiler +
We don't really know if they asked for permission (probably didn't) but they're just embedding the own3d VOD on their site. Any VOD ads should go back to the KoE channel although solomid.net does gain site ad views that they may not have gotten by doing this.
We don't really know if they asked for permission (probably didn't) but they're just embedding the own3d VOD on their site. Any VOD ads should go back to the KoE channel although solomid.net does gain site ad views that they may not have gotten by doing this.
actually KOE doesn't get ad revenue for the ad playing on the top of the vod before it loads. (it is VERY sneaky and questionable IMO)
I despise the way Solomid has monetized their site, because it allows them to gain a gigantic amount of revenue from just embedding videos that aren't theirs.
The last game of the finals was the best game Ive seen in a while from a spectator loving esport view. Intense and some great plays. Too bad CLG.eu werent at IEM, but Im glad they are showing they are top EU right now. Great games!
I despise the way Solomid has monetized their site, because it allows them to gain a gigantic amount of revenue from just embedding videos that aren't theirs.
They gathered all the links from the owned profile. It is public information gathered. If you dont want to use solomid dont. KoE can remove the owned links if they want to.
Deman + Jatt, damn what a combo. Great job Deman! Your casts are easy to listen to and quite exciting. Go4LoL Sunday you said?! :D
Bring Jatt here so he can see how much his commentary is appreciated! He's exactly the sort of colour commentary LoL needs. Guy should stop playing and just cast with you full time.
On February 02 2012 04:32 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Deman + Jatt, damn what a combo. Great job Deman! Your casts are easy to listen to and quite exciting. Go4LoL Sunday you said?! :D
Bring Jatt here so he can see how much his commentary is appreciated! He's exactly the sort of colour commentary LoL needs. Guy should stop playing and just cast with you full time.
Jatt already stopped playing basically. Jatt getting picked up to cast at MLG or IEM or whatever this year could help bring even higher record numbers though.
On February 01 2012 09:02 Deman wrote: Hey guys, just dropped by to say thanks for the feedback and for watching.
I honestly had no clue how this tourney was going to turn out before I clicked the stream button on Friday and myself and Jatt have been pretty blown away by how popular it quickly became. Some awesome matches throughout the tourney topped by an epic final.
Next up, Go4LoL weekly on Sunday.
Hey Deman, just wanted to say you are an awesome caster and that tournament was amazing!
M5 got heavily criticized for choosing Baron over defending their turrets/inhibitor about 27 minutes into game 3, but at the time I thought it was actually a very smart decision. With the VODs now available I wanted to examine that decision more closely.
First, consider the gold on each team before and after the exchange:
(CLG/M5) Before Baron/Turrets: 38.1k/31.8k After Baron/Turrets: 40.1k/33.6k
So in the exchange M5 only fell behind by 200g. That's still falling behind, but not by very much. M5 was a man down at the time due to Kennen getting picked, so by taking Baron rather than contesting towers they avoided risky 4v5 fights while keeping the gold gap from increasing dramatically.
That, however, raises the question, "Was Baron buff worth losing an inhibitor?" Let's look at the gold difference just after Baron buff faded at approximately 31 minutes in.
31:00 Game Time: 43.7k/39.2k
The gold gap shrunk from 6.5k to 4.5k over the course of four minutes. CLG couldn't take strong offensive action as long as M5 had Baron buff, and with the inhibitor down all the lanes were naturally pushing. As a result M5 was able to farm significantly more than CLG. In this way M5 turned the disadvantage of a lost inhibitor into an advantage.
So the net result of M5's decision was to shrink the gap by 2k gold. Though they eventually lost, I think it's clear that the exchange actually benefited M5 by giving them the chance to farm away CLG's advantage.
On February 02 2012 06:02 Seuss wrote: M5 got heavily criticized for choosing Baron over defending their turrets/inhibitor about 27 minutes into game 3, but at the time I thought it was actually a very smart decision. With the VODs now available I wanted to examine that decision more closely.
First, consider the gold on each team before and after the exchange:
(CLG/M5) Before Baron/Turrets: 38.1k/31.8k After Baron/Turrets: 40.1k/33.6k
So in the exchange M5 only fell behind by 200g. That's still falling behind, but not by very much. M5 was a man down at the time due to Kennen getting picked, so by taking Baron rather than contesting towers they avoided risky 4v5 fights while keeping the gold gap from increasing dramatically.
That, however, raises the question, "Was Baron buff worth losing an inhibitor?" Let's look at the gold difference just after Baron buff faded at approximately 31 minutes in.
31:00 Game Time: 43.7k/39.2k
The gold gap shrunk from 6.5k to 4.5k over the course of four minutes. CLG couldn't take strong offensive action as long as M5 had Baron buff, and with the inhibitor down all the lanes were naturally pushing. As a result M5 was able to farm significantly more than CLG. In this way M5 turned the disadvantage of a lost inhibitor into an advantage.
So the net result of M5's decision was to shrink the gap by 2k gold. Though they eventually lost, I think it's clear that the exchange actually benefited M5 by giving them the chance to farm away CLG's advantage.
It was the right play on both ends. CLG got map control for the rest of the game, and M5 were able to minimize the damage.
In the M5 ideal case, they bait the baron, CLG comes and contests, dont get the inhib, they all get out alive, and someone getting picked gets wiped out and they are even again.
In the CLG ideal case, M5 contests tower, they lose cuz they get there late, then CLG gets inhib and baron and wins the game there.
Instead CLG makes the choice to take map control, which basically cements that M5 needs to get baron or they lose the game there, which they do.
Right, it just seemed like some people thought M5 should have contested the towers when they were clearly not in a position to do so. Even if M5 could have arrived in time it would have been extremely risky to fight 4v5.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/flags/eu.png)
exGBT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/flags/ru.png)
Moscow 5![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/flags/fr.png)
Sypher
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PMyrV.jpg)
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