EPT[TL R&D] T.R.O.L.L.S. - Page 37
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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red_
United States8474 Posts
1)Each spell has a 3second cooldown, not the tear itself(the visual is bugged). Champs like Sona/Udyr/Zilean are easiest to test this. On Sona I never went 40% cdr to see if the 2nd cast of a spell was what didn't give mana, or if it was actually explanation... 2)There is one 'soft' and one 'hard' cooldown for the tear. When you cast a first spell, it gives a soft cooldown which will allow a 2nd(different) spellcast to give mana. That 2nd cast will however trigger a hard cooldown, where the tear takes 3 seconds to give mana again. I want to say the second one seems to be the correct one because I don't remember getting 12 mana for a quick QWE roll, but do remember doing QE's for +8 then waiting for the visual cooldown and repeating. Like I said though, I'll test when I'm home later tonight if someone else hasn't already. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
As a side note, I find it hilarious that years after they changed Sheen to make it more comprehensible, we still have 20 different ideas regarding how Tear works. | ||
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Sc2eleazar
United States70 Posts
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red_
United States8474 Posts
Tear seems to store charges. When I hadn't cast anything for awhile, I could roll 3 charges in a row on a max CDR Udyr(spell every half second), but the 4th spell never gave a 4th charge. After that initial roll of casts, charges adhered to the visual cooldown timer(within reason, I'm thinking it has to do with my 110-120 ping causing a slight disjoint in visual+actual cooldown) and would proc every other/every 3rd cast(sometimes the 2nd cast would come too soon because Udyr's minimum timer is 3.6seconds), but never back to backs. If I sat casting just one spell continuously(3.6s cooldown is not quite at exact tear cooldown), every 3rd cast I could then roll 2 more spells for 3 charges, but if I tried after 2 casts I would only get 1 extra charge. However, sometimes doing it that way the E(QQQWE) would not proc it, but an immediately casted R would(QQQWER as fast as allowed in game). That seems to again be because the charges are 'storing' with the .6s offset of casting the Q, but the last charge isn't quite ready if you perfectly hit the buttons on QWE and the R has to proc the last +4 gain. I want to go in another game with someone who has <3s cooldown and can just try to get this to proc off one single spell and not a rotation. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On February 22 2013 06:43 red_ wrote: Ok so I won't say that I've definitively figured it out, but I did like 30 minutes on testing and this is the best I can come up with. Tear seems to store charges. When I hadn't cast anything for awhile, I could roll 3 charges in a row on a max CDR Udyr(spell every half second), but the 4th spell never gave a 4th charge. After that initial roll of casts, charges adhered to the visual cooldown timer(within reason, I'm thinking it has to do with my 110-120 ping causing a slight disjoint in visual+actual cooldown) and would proc every other/every 3rd cast(sometimes the 2nd cast would come too soon because Udyr's minimum timer is 3.6seconds), but never back to backs. If I sat casting just one spell continuously(3.6s cooldown is not quite at exact tear cooldown), every 3rd cast I could then roll 2 more spells for 3 charges, but if I tried after 2 casts I would only get 1 extra charge. However, sometimes doing it that way the E(QQQWE) would not proc it, but an immediately casted R would(QQQWER as fast as allowed in game). That seems to again be because the charges are 'storing' with the .6s offset of casting the Q, but the last charge isn't quite ready if you perfectly hit the buttons on QWE and the R has to proc the last +4 gain. I want to go in another game with someone who has <3s cooldown and can just try to get this to proc off one single spell and not a rotation. Is there a TL;DR of that, because I think I lost you somewhere in there. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On February 22 2013 07:17 WaveofShadow wrote: Is there a TL;DR of that, because I think I lost you somewhere in there. TLDR: Seems like Tear has internal charges that get stored/used, and the visual cooldown only matters if you've used those up. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Official testing begins at 23:00 GMT (+00:00). If you cannot be present by the appointed time then come whenever you can. We'll be testing so long as we have researchers and working servers, so it will continue for many hours and into the night presuming there is interest. All testing will be coordinated from the TROLLS chat channel and through TeamLiquid's TeamSpeak. We will have multiple test groups and/or in-houses depending on the number of people present. As it is unlikely that the number of researchers will be an exact multiple of 5, one or more groups may sortie with unsuspecting pubs. I will stream all tests that I am a part of at http://www.twitch.tv/montegomerylol. Details: Support Nasus: I'd like to run this through its paces. TheYango and I did some interesting math in the Nasus thread showing that 1-2 ranks in Wither is sufficient to push opponents down to the movement speed slow soft cap, so maxing E first seems appropriate (though costly in terms of mana). Proper placement of E will be critical to making this work. Miss Fortune, Twitch, Graves, and Draven seem like the best partners. Support Zilean: On the opposite end of the spectrum is support Zilean. For this you want a lane that isn't afraid of pushing (which also means you'll want good ward coverage), and a carry who is happy to stand on top of your opponent and murder them. Thus is likely will work best with champions like Jayce and Urgot. Some hilarity can be accomplished via Twitch and invisibombs. Thresh Lantern Teleport Abuse: You can teleport to Thresh's Lantern. Forget ward ganks, Start a fight, throw down a latern, and suddenly there's a teleport in the mosh pit. Could be fun. Spectral Wraith Rush Mid: This idea has been put forward by several people for a variety of champions. I'd like to run it through its paces as it definitely is a very cheap and efficient source of powerful laning stats, especially for a mid-lane who plans on taking jungle. We should be careful to pick junglers who can deal with the taxation. Teleport Teams: Lots of teleports for sudden pushes, ganks, objectives, etc. Who needs global champions when you can teleport everywhere? Pseudo AD Carries: This is still something I'd like to work on, but it's not a high priority. AP Duo Lanes: We can revisit this topic tonight, but I'd definitely like to avoid both Ryze and Cass in favor of Annie, Teemo, Kayle, and maybe Xerath. Working on viable 1v2 champions is another priority here. Tower Rush Compositions: This has been discussed a lot recently, and may even be responsible for recent criticism, but if we have an opportunity I would like to examine this strategy. I don't believe any testing we do can settle the debate we've been having due to our level of play, but we may be able to garner some new insights. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Brand Annie sounds hilarious. Both have to take Ignite and get Liandry's for maximum telling people they're on fire. | ||
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
On February 23 2013 06:16 Ketara wrote: I'd like to try support Urgot. Brand Annie sounds hilarious. Both have to take Ignite and get Liandry's for maximum telling people they're on fire. Brand Annie was earlier today at the OGN team tournament, vs Ezrael + Zyra I believe. Wasn't a steamroll, kills from both sides. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14211 Posts
I think if we're gona do tower rush's it would come with a mass teleport team. They're going to want to relive the pressure with ganks and swaps, having teleport reinforcements would throw a ton of chaos into an already chaotic game. Having tons of teleports with a pushing comp would work really well as teleporting out of a lane thats pushed is the idea condition of a teleport focused comp. sounds like a ton of fun if nothing else. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
We have figured out several working compositions and found theoretical success with them, but we haven't been able to put it into practice in real games. I think the problem comes from the players not understanding the purpose of the 2v1 lane, which is not to safely farm, but to beat the fuck out of the opposing 1v2 laner. I haven't been in any of the 2v1 lanes but I know in our last ranked game my mid Caitlyn had double the farm of our 2v1 Cassiopeia at the end of the game. Not saying so and so is a bad player because I honestly have no clue who it was and people are at different skill levels and that's fine, but I think that's an identifiable problem. Our 2v1 lanes should be getting kills and taking towers and they're not, so it seems like if we're going to work on that then what we should work at is the dynamics of how you play any 2v1 lane, not the champion composition. Lux Zyra does sound like a mean lane though. I don't know why we haven't discussed Zyra as a possible AP Carry. She has good late game sustained damage and suffers from a lack of early game escapes. Something like Zyra Lulu could be a really mean lane with a lot of pushing potential. | ||
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Mondeezy
United States1938 Posts
On February 23 2013 06:07 Seuss wrote: FRIDAY TEST AGENDA: 02/22/2013
Official testing begins at 23:00 GMT (+00:00). If you cannot be present by the appointed time then come whenever you can. We'll be testing so long as we have researchers and working servers, so it will continue for many hours and into the night presuming there is interest. All testing will be coordinated from the TROLLS chat channel and through TeamLiquid's TeamSpeak. We will have multiple test groups and/or in-houses depending on the number of people present. As it is unlikely that the number of researchers will be an exact multiple of 5, one or more groups may sortie with unsuspecting pubs. I will stream all tests that I am a part of at http://www.twitch.tv/montegomerylol. Details: Support Nasus: I'd like to run this through its paces. TheYango and I did some interesting math in the Nasus thread showing that 1-2 ranks in Wither is sufficient to push opponents down to the movement speed slow soft cap, so maxing E first seems appropriate (though costly in terms of mana). Proper placement of E will be critical to making this work. Miss Fortune, Twitch, Graves, and Draven seem like the best partners. Support Zilean: On the opposite end of the spectrum is support Zilean. For this you want a lane that isn't afraid of pushing (which also means you'll want good ward coverage), and a carry who is happy to stand on top of your opponent and murder them. Thus is likely will work best with champions like Jayce and Urgot. Some hilarity can be accomplished via Twitch and invisibombs. Thresh Lantern Teleport Abuse: You can teleport to Thresh's Lantern. Forget ward ganks, Start a fight, throw down a latern, and suddenly there's a teleport in the mosh pit. Could be fun. Spectral Wraith Rush Mid: This idea has been put forward by several people for a variety of champions. I'd like to run it through its paces as it definitely is a very cheap and efficient source of powerful laning stats, especially for a mid-lane who plans on taking jungle. We should be careful to pick junglers who can deal with the taxation. Teleport Teams: Lots of teleports for sudden pushes, ganks, objectives, etc. Who needs global champions when you can teleport everywhere? Pseudo AD Carries: This is still something I'd like to work on, but it's not a high priority. AP Duo Lanes: We can revisit this topic tonight, but I'd definitely like to avoid both Ryze and Cass in favor of Annie, Teemo, Kayle, and maybe Xerath. Working on viable 1v2 champions is another priority here. Tower Rush Compositions: This has been discussed a lot recently, and may even be responsible for recent criticism, but if we have an opportunity I would like to examine this strategy. I don't believe any testing we do can settle the debate we've been having due to our level of play, but we may be able to garner some new insights. Monte, what would be an example of a pseudo AD Carry? Also, what is the criteria for TROLLS inhouses? Is it kind of just "try out what you want but have a reason for it" or more structured? | ||
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Sermokala
United States14211 Posts
On February 23 2013 08:54 Mondeezy wrote: Monte, what would be an example of a pseudo AD Carry? Also, what is the criteria for TROLLS inhouses? Is it kind of just "try out what you want but have a reason for it" or more structured? Read thought the whole thread and you'll find it somewhere. Theres a lot of good stuff in the thread if you want to find something new and fun to try out in your own games. Your second question is answered with a yes though btw. | ||
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Lightswarm
Canada967 Posts
On February 23 2013 06:15 Roffles wrote: Brand Annie huehuehue. speaking of brand annie, i think for that game b/w kt and cj, if cj did not ban j4, they would ahve goten wrecked even harder. it would literally be cataclysm/tibbers/pyroclasm wombocombo and just melt whoever gets caught in that | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
In the second game, I felt really awesome as lulu, since it was effectively a Low-econ game, and underfarmed lulu really isn't a big problem. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
I'll do a report sometime during the week. It's midnight, my mind is gone, and everything is OP. | ||
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