Disclaimer: I suck Reclaimer: I suck less with casters than other characters
Mandatory picture of character in her coolest skin
Overview
LeBlanc is one of the more rare character choices that you will see in game. This is mostly because of her status on release: she could automatically kill her lane opponent at level 6, no matter who it was. Riot then slapped a hotfix on her that pretty much destroyed her, increasing her mana costs, cooldowns, decreasing damage, ect. This led to the general view that she sucks. However, a couple of patches with minor changes have really helped her out, to the point that she is once again a strong champion provided that you know your role.
You ARE NOT an AP carry. You ARE an anti carry.
LeBlanc is incredibly mobile, (The way I play her you have 5 flashes) and can deal an obscene amount of damage on the right target. I'll say that again. The RIGHT target. You aren't akali. You cannot burst down anyone you feel like. However, you have the advantage of being able to pick off squishy targets at range, without ever risking your life. And should you engage a champion who you dont have enough burst to take down (ie, anyone with a health item or a negatron cloak) you have the tools to hold them down long enough for help to arrive.
Skills
Passive: Mirror Image
Creates a clone of Leblanc when you drop below 40% health, stealthing for .5 seconds while the clone is created. Clone lasts for 8 seconds, can only appear once every minute.
A fairly decent passive, the .5 second cloak is much more useful than the clone, especially since it isnt exactly hard to tell which is the real LeBlanc, especially in a fight, as all of her abilities are flashy and will give you away instantly. In addition, her E will persist through the stealthing, so if you are counting on your clone giving your opponents a moments distraction, dont cast e while taking damage.
Q: Sigil of Silence
Throws a snowball at the enemy, dealing damage and marking them. If you hit that enemy with another of LeBlanc's skills, the mark triggers, dealing damage and silencing.
Her 3rd best skill. It is useless on its own, and thus you should never get it at level 1, as you have no way to trigger the mark. However, it does do a lot of damage, and the silence is very good for taking out enemy casters.
W: Distortion
Ports to a location, dealing damage. If activated again within 3 seconds, she can warp back to her initial location.
2nd best skill. Great for activating the mark on q, great for escaping, hell, its even a great farming tool once you get a little bit of ap. It also deals a lot of damage when combined with a q.
E: Ethereal Chains
Skillshot that slows and damages an enemy initially, and attaches a tether. If LeBlanc can maintain the tether for 2 seconds, the enemy takes additional damage and becomes snared.
This ability is mostly useless. You'll never be able to hit your target in a teamfight, you cant use it in laning because minions will get in the way, you cant use it to farm. In perfect situations (ie chasing an opponent) it will prove to be useful. However, the way I play her, this skill goes mostly unused.
Ulti: Mimic
LeBlanc recasts the last spell she cast, which deals more damage.
Ah Mimic, the best part of her kit. Whenever you can, lead with a mimic'd q. This is your best hardest hitting spell, and the one that you REALLY want to trigger the mark on. Always try to have mimic set to q when starting harass, engaging in a teamfight, or just generally at all times. Mimic also makes it impossible for you to die unless you are being an idiot. you can flash forward twice, backwards twice, and once more if you have summoner flash. Super damage and nearly absolute invulnerability? Yes please.
The Build
Finally we are at the build. So here we go:
Masteries: standard 9-0-21 for casters. No exceptions
Runes: mpen reds, mp5/lvl yellows, ap/lvl blues, Ap quints. --Mpen and mp5 are self explanatory, your a mana caster. Ap is for killing.
Summoner spells: Flash Ignite --Flash gives you a total of 5 flashes. Who can complain about that. Ignite is for killing.
Skills: If teamfighting at level 1: e>q>w>q>q>r, If laning at level 1: w>q>q>e>q>r R>Q>W>E
Items: Ring+health pot 1st couple of backs: Rings (up to a total of 3), boots 1 2nd back: Sorc boots+ deathcap After that you can go based on how the enemy team is built, but generally I get these items: Catalyst-> BV or Void staff- depends on if you need d or not Zhonyas
End build is this: Boots, Deathcap, BV, Zhonyas, Void staff- 6th is up for grabs- whatever you prefer.
Item Notes: You need the pen boots for the damage increase- these plus parts of your cap and rings will make you hit very hard.
Playstyle
Laning: Last hit. Simple as that. You need that rod as soon as possible. Boots help as well. Harass with a q-w combo. Send a q, wait a tick ( you are faster than the projectile) and w to the enemy champion to activate the mark as it arrives. W back. Safe harass, and it deals a frightening amount of damage. You cant kill with it, but you can use it to ensure you have ample time to farm. Oh, and dont die. Your w and passive makes it so you should under no circumstances die from a gank. You need farm and a level advantage to be your most effective. Dying prevents that.
Once you hit 6, you become deadly, on par with super hss pantheon (oh remember the days). Yes, you do that much burst. Initiate with a mimic'd q, activate with w, q, e if you can, and w back is ideal. This should kill a squishy character, or at least come close enough to where a q mimic q combo should finish them off. Then go back to farming your NLR and boots. The sooner you get them, the sooner you can start to gank, picking off any other squishes on the enemy team.
Midgame: Keep farming when you can, but start to look for out of position players. This is the one point at the game where you can go one on one and kill anyone on the enemy team. Do so. Make sure to continue to not die. A level advantage and deathcap make you deadly, dying lets the other team catch up.
Lategame/Teamfights: This is where your utility falls off the side of a cliff. A full combo (mimic q, w, q, e or q again) will kill any squishy, but no longer will it phase the enemy tank. Therefore you should shift to full defensive anti-carry. Your q and mimic q have a tremendous range for what they do. Just stand as far away as possible and try to hit that combo as much as possible prior to a fight. When in a fight, do the same, stay on the outskirts and q away. ONLY W IN WHEN YOU ARE SURE OF YOUR SURVIVAL. In other words, you have a bv and know you can activate w again to back out. Dont cast e unless your target is directly in front of you, it wont hit otherwise and you want to save it for the possibility of an escaping enemy or to finish off a weakened character by activating a q.
Whelp, thats it. I probably forgot half of what I meant to say, but w/e.
Boots + NLR seems like a very optimistic first-back buy. It's equivalent to a ranged carry being able to buy a BF sword on their first trip back--it happens, but I wouldn't rely on being able to do it.
On January 22 2011 06:59 TheYango wrote: Boots + NLR seems like a very optimistic first-back buy. It's equivalent to a ranged carry being able to buy a BF sword on their first trip back--it happens, but I wouldn't rely on being able to do it.
Thats why I make such a big deal of farming. If you cant get farmed, you arent going to be able to hit your peak in the midgame. I did throw an edit in there for other non optimal cases though.
On January 22 2011 06:59 TheYango wrote: Boots + NLR seems like a very optimistic first-back buy. It's equivalent to a ranged carry being able to buy a BF sword on their first trip back--it happens, but I wouldn't rely on being able to do it.
Thats why I make such a big deal of farming. If you cant get farmed, you arent going to be able to hit your peak in the midgame. I did throw an edit in there for other non optimal cases though.
I mean, there's a difference between "ideal" and "someone has to feed you" when you're talking about NLR + boots around level 6, seeing as I don't think there's even 1200 gold of minion bounty if you last hit every minion before level 6.
True, I do think I exaggerated a little bit. However, it is very possible to at least get the NLR by your first back, and delay the boots for a little bit. Both generally come by level 8 or so.
Flat AP Quints AP/lvl Blues ManaRegen/lvl Yellows MagicPen Reds
2/7/21
Sorc Shoes is my main variation from your item build.
Between masteries/Runes i get about 49 AP @ lvl 18 which works nicely with deathcap.
Since her goal is to instakill a squishie and pacing in 1v1 allows for extra Q's anyways I prefer the AP/Magic Pen boots. Void staff reduces the magic pen from the offensive tree to 9% since they don't stack additively, and the 7 points in Defensive allows me to get away without HP quints. 15% early/midgame is usually between 4-10 magic pen, not really worth it.
Also, instead of leading with R, lead with Q; this is because it allows you to retreat/pull back temporarily without wasting an ult if shit hits the fan (W + R = escape from anything) really fast or if positioning ends up screwy or whatever right before you engage.
QRWEQ is my ideal 1v1 combo, with the last Q activating from the E. This can be done with pacing your silences (they aren't going anywhere soon lol) allowing for 6seconds of silenced + 2seconds rooted.
Ghost/Ignite
ALT + Right click to move the mirror image, please for the love of god don't just instantly run away when it pops. I hate watching people do that. /emo
Also, you can check bushes with your mirror image to end a standoff (ex you and 1 guy left both low hp he's in a bush and you're 10 feet away) and allow for a safer Q+W combo.
LeBlanc was the first character that I really wanted to do some mathcrafting for to calculate her burst. To get an idea of what her Q/R/W combo is capable of:
Given: Leblanc @ Level 6 /w lvl 3 Sigil, lvl 1 Distortion, and Lvl 1 Mimic. +50 bonus AP (Doran's Ring + blasting rod), Mpen reds, 9 pts in offense. Warwick @ Level 6 /w Merc Treads (62.5 mres)
Warwick has the highest base Mres and Mres growth, and not many chars rush for merc treads by lvl 6, so this may be one of the worst cases you encounter. Consider then, that vs any ranged carry the magic res jumps down to 30 and stays there (no growth / level).
Edit: Does anyone know of a damage calculator for LoL? If not... is there a demand for it? Maybe just a simple web form so 'yall can calculate if you'll be able to burst someone. All you'd have to do is alt-tab and get your info.
On January 22 2011 08:01 WirelessWaffle wrote: Flat AP Quints AP/lvl Blues ManaRegen/lvl Yellows MagicPen Reds
2/7/21
Sorc Shoes is my main variation from your item build.
Between masteries/Runes i get about 49 AP @ lvl 18 which works nicely with deathcap.
Since her goal is to instakill a squishie and pacing in 1v1 allows for extra Q's anyways I prefer the AP/Magic Pen boots. Void staff reduces the magic pen from the offensive tree to 9% since they don't stack additively, and the 7 points in Defensive allows me to get away without HP quints. 15% early/midgame is usually between 4-10 magic pen, not really worth it.
Also, instead of leading with R, lead with Q; this is because it allows you to retreat/pull back temporarily without wasting an ult if shit hits the fan (W + R = escape from anything) really fast or if positioning ends up screwy or whatever right before you engage.
QRWEQ is my ideal 1v1 combo, with the last Q activating from the E. This can be done with pacing your silences (they aren't going anywhere soon lol) allowing for 6seconds of silenced + 2seconds rooted.
Ghost/Ignite
ALT + Right click to move the mirror image, please for the love of god don't just instantly run away when it pops. I hate watching people do that. /emo
Also, you can check bushes with your mirror image to end a standoff (ex you and 1 guy left both low hp he's in a bush and you're 10 feet away) and allow for a safer Q+W combo.
Your build just seems kind of confused to me. Instead of being optimized for offense, which I have no problems with (mine is more defensive in nature, focused on being able to survive laning with as little gold spent on defense as possible) you try to do the best of both worlds, but in a very inefficient way. I can get behind the ap runes if you want to maximize your burst as soon as possible, which would also combine well with the mpen boots, but then why gimp your output with points in the defensive tree. Leblanc isnt a late game character. Dont worry about the void staff interaction at all= by the time you get one it wont matter. Instead the mpen is good for early game, when you wont have one.
How does the damage of DRing + Blasting Wand compare to the damage of DRing + Sorc Boots?
/w Sorc Boots instead. Same example as above.
Vs 62.5 mres: 427.52 Vs 30 mres: 544.19
With just the runes + sorc boots, you get more damage from going AP first, but not much. The move speed you get from sorc boots will outweigh the 1/2 of an autoattack you miss out on. Sorc boots win for first item over Blasting Rod.
But if we give LeBlanc 100 AP to start...
Blasting Rod Leblanc (100 + 40) AP: Vs (62.5) mres: 559.62 Vs (30) mes: 739.72
Sorc Boots Leblanc (100AP) Vs (62.5) mres: 601.43 Vs (30) mres: 765.56
Penetration becomes more valuable the more AP you have.
I'll graph some stuff up later for 'yall for each character and we can sticky it.
On January 22 2011 08:01 WirelessWaffle wrote: Flat AP Quints AP/lvl Blues ManaRegen/lvl Yellows MagicPen Reds
2/7/21
Sorc Shoes is my main variation from your item build.
Between masteries/Runes i get about 49 AP @ lvl 18 which works nicely with deathcap.
Since her goal is to instakill a squishie and pacing in 1v1 allows for extra Q's anyways I prefer the AP/Magic Pen boots. Void staff reduces the magic pen from the offensive tree to 9% since they don't stack additively, and the 7 points in Defensive allows me to get away without HP quints. 15% early/midgame is usually between 4-10 magic pen, not really worth it.
Also, instead of leading with R, lead with Q; this is because it allows you to retreat/pull back temporarily without wasting an ult if shit hits the fan (W + R = escape from anything) really fast or if positioning ends up screwy or whatever right before you engage.
QRWEQ is my ideal 1v1 combo, with the last Q activating from the E. This can be done with pacing your silences (they aren't going anywhere soon lol) allowing for 6seconds of silenced + 2seconds rooted.
Ghost/Ignite
ALT + Right click to move the mirror image, please for the love of god don't just instantly run away when it pops. I hate watching people do that. /emo
Also, you can check bushes with your mirror image to end a standoff (ex you and 1 guy left both low hp he's in a bush and you're 10 feet away) and allow for a safer Q+W combo.
Your build just seems kind of confused to me. Instead of being optimized for offense, which I have no problems with (mine is more defensive in nature, focused on being able to survive laning with as little gold spent on defense as possible) you try to do the best of both worlds, but in a very inefficient way. I can get behind the ap runes if you want to maximize your burst as soon as possible, which would also combine well with the mpen boots, but then why gimp your output with points in the defensive tree. Leblanc isnt a late game character. Dont worry about the void staff interaction at all= by the time you get one it wont matter. Instead the mpen is good for early game, when you wont have one.
i think you're overestimating 15% magic pen ex. early game say they have 100 mr (first buy negatron for some reason).
29 pen from boots/masteries/runes = 71 mr
15% magic pen nets you around 10 more penetration.
so 61 MR
With 15% pen they mitigate 38% dmg Without 15% pen they mitigate 41% dmg
Heres the thing. Your build isnt built to farm or play defensively. Its built to do damage to enemies. Why not max that instead of wasting 7 points in the defensive tree. It isnt a matter of overestimating the magic pen, its about looking at what your build is trying to accomplish and maximizing that. Right now your just inefficient, which is bad.
Getting an extra 2% damage shouldn't make or break a build. Getting more MR HP/5 and a little bit of armor allows for more exchanges in your favor.
Ex vs Caster that went 9/0/21. The MR from the defensive tree is greater than the penetration he gains, add in more hp/5 and you can play very aggressively to force him out of the lane early. Getting a level ahead on the person you're laning against is almost as beneficial as killing them.
Short summary of my thoughts on offensive vs defensive tree's is that the extra time that i can be aggressive due SoS/MR out weighs the offensive gain from the magic pen.
Note: 15% Magic Pen and 3% CDR get better late game compared to SoS/MR. But on the targets that Leblanc should be going for the difference is negligible @ that point due to void staff not stacking additively the 15% magic pen.
When deciding on if I want to do SoS or the 15% magic pen when a caster I generally think "can i cast my spells from range without getting harassed much?" as well as "am i getting a tear early in my build to benefit more during laning from SoS?" For example, with veigar he's so squishy and I generally grab a tear fairly early now b/c I used to always be out of mana from lasthitting with q, that SoS benefits me quite a bit on him along with a doran's shield opening. While with Lux I can harass from far away with worries so I like the 15% magic pen more.
If you want to absolutely maximize your damage, then Two_DoWn is correct: Taking anything other than those 9 offensive masteries is inefficient.
If you want to get the most efficient masteries for your 9 points, then Wireless is correct.
The question is which one matters to LeBlanc in terms of her role in the game. Assuming she doesn't want the game to last very long, then defensive masteries will help more. Once the game goes further, then as Wireless already stated: The 15% Magic Pen becomes better.
It also depends on what the opponents have. If I'm against a Spammy team, then I'll take more defense. If I'm against a team of tanks, then I'll take the Magic Pen. The math is really what matters here. Also consider that your flat magic resist diminishes the effectiveness of Archaic Knowledge. If you're running massive Magic Pen, then you're not going to get much out of it until later.
My point was simply that based on his runes, Wireless wanted to do as much damage as possible. Therefore his masteries were inefficient for his goal. If he wants to farm more, then his runes were the inefficient aspect of his build. One of the two are out of sync.
On January 22 2011 10:56 BlackPaladin wrote: When deciding on if I want to do SoS or the 15% magic pen when a caster I generally think "can i cast my spells from range without getting harassed much?" as well as "am i getting a tear early in my build to benefit more during laning from SoS?" For example, with veigar he's so squishy and I generally grab a tear fairly early now b/c I used to always be out of mana from lasthitting with q, that SoS benefits me quite a bit on him along with a doran's shield opening. While with Lux I can harass from far away with worries so I like the 15% magic pen more.
This is generally my logic when assessing SoS vs Archaic Knowledge.
SoS is most useful during the laning phase--this is because of the fact that by nature, Hp5 is a stat that is most useful during laning (where you will be taking damage over an extended period of time, as opposed to inside the context of a comparatively short team-fight, followed by a period of relatively minimal damage). SoS is preferable in cases where you need that early Hp5 to establish or maintain lane control (e.g. Kassadin needs to melee in order to get last-hits, so SoS regen allows him to trade harassment with his lane opponent without getting pushed out of lane from the harassment he's guaranteed to take while farming). On a champ that can expect to last-hit safely and trade advantageously however (e.g. Annie, who has the 2nd-longest base attack range in the game, and almost always harasses off the back of a stun), the long-term utility of Archaic Knowledge can win out. Even though SoS technically remains cost-effective out of the laning phase, it's utility diminishes by virtue of the fact that Hp5 naturally becomes a less useful stat as teamfights become more prevalent.
Insta-gib champs generally wants the 15% mpen, unless they cannot farm well otherwise.
I would get 15% mpen for leblanc simply because I rarely find myself making exchanges that I cannot avoid or wouldn't win anyways. It's not a huge boost in damage, but it lets you put more pressure on the jungler and bot-lane.
You really, really, want to go sorc boots + guise as your first two items on LeBlanc. You should also be ganking a ton as soon as you hit level 6. Your built-in flash means you can get from bushes to mid-lane before an opponent can react, and you have two CC abilities -- it's very hard for an opponent to survive a few hundred damage from your burst, plus being silenced/slowed/rooted while your ally beats on them. This is also why you go 0/9/21 -- you want the early, flat mpen, so the 15% mpen is worthless. You also should be running ignite over flash -- you have built in quad flash if required, and your ganks become all the more deadly with ignite.
LeBlanc, like Kass, can also run soulstealer. It has the same advantages/disadvantages.
On January 22 2011 14:07 oberon wrote: You really, really, want to go sorc boots + guise as your first two items on LeBlanc. You should also be ganking a ton as soon as you hit level 6. Your built-in flash means you can get from bushes to mid-lane before an opponent can react, and you have two CC abilities -- it's very hard for an opponent to survive a few hundred damage from your burst, plus being silenced/slowed/rooted while your ally beats on them. This is also why you go 0/9/21 -- you want the early, flat mpen, so the 15% mpen is worthless. You also should be running ignite over flash -- you have built in quad flash if required, and your ganks become all the more deadly with ignite.
LeBlanc, like Kass, can also run soulstealer. It has the same advantages/disadvantages.
TBH I think this is the largest misstake most Leblancs do, at least in my experience. They see her as this great ganker and do nothing but gank, while the most important factor of a nuker is to stay ahead of the rest. A under-fed Leblanc is one of the most pathetic heroes in LoL. Many a games when I've played with a Leblanc they just run around ganking with their 23 CS while you start nearing 100 : (
On January 22 2011 14:07 oberon wrote: You really, really, want to go sorc boots + guise as your first two items on LeBlanc. You should also be ganking a ton as soon as you hit level 6. Your built-in flash means you can get from bushes to mid-lane before an opponent can react, and you have two CC abilities -- it's very hard for an opponent to survive a few hundred damage from your burst, plus being silenced/slowed/rooted while your ally beats on them. This is also why you go 0/9/21 -- you want the early, flat mpen, so the 15% mpen is worthless. You also should be running ignite over flash -- you have built in quad flash if required, and your ganks become all the more deadly with ignite.
LeBlanc, like Kass, can also run soulstealer. It has the same advantages/disadvantages.
TBH I think this is the largest misstake most Leblancs do, at least in my experience. They see her as this great ganker and do nothing but gank, while the most important factor of a nuker is to stay ahead of the rest. A under-fed Leblanc is one of the most pathetic heroes in LoL. Many a games when I've played with a Leblanc they just run around ganking with their 23 CS while you start nearing 100 : (
Each (successful) gank nets a minimum (minimum!) of 300 cash. This is equivalent to almost 2 waves of hitting every minion. Beyond that, the whole point of LeBlanc is that she's a good assassin who doesn't scale well lategame. If you're not ganking lanes so your team can take towers/dragon/etc., you're not doing your job. She's not really an AP-carry like Anivia, Kennen, etc., because she just doesn't have the AoE to do that. Also note that W->R is ridiculous for farming, and if you're accomplishing anything at all it should be able to one shot entire waves relatively early (level 11 + NLR, I think?). So it's not like you can't catch up on farm later.
In summary: sorc/guise is optimal, it is not a mistake, and if you want to farm and build a deathcap, you shouldn't be playing LeBlanc.
Not to mention the fact that sorc+guise lets you gank from levels 8-10. And then your useless. By farming for a bit longer and getting a harder hitting item (NLR) you can extend your ganking superiority to when the last person on their team hits 18.
And besides, mpen boots are great, but I find the cdr boots to be optimal on her. No ulti=no kills, and most of the time someone is going to be better suited for blue than you. Cdr boots let you q faster, ulti more often, and have your escape up more. For leblanc, i believe cdr boots are much better than any alternative, same goes for cdr blues over ap blues in runes.
On January 23 2011 05:45 Two_DoWn wrote: Not to mention the fact that sorc+guise lets you gank from levels 8-10. And then your useless. By farming for a bit longer and getting a harder hitting item (NLR) you can extend your ganking superiority to when the last person on their team hits 18.
And besides, mpen boots are great, but I find the cdr boots to be optimal on her. No ulti=no kills, and most of the time someone is going to be better suited for blue than you. Cdr boots let you q faster, ulti more often, and have your escape up more. For leblanc, i believe cdr boots are much better than any alternative, same goes for cdr blues over ap blues in runes.
Umm...at level 11, a QR combo with guise/boots against a squishy (no MRes items/runes) does:
So at level 11, you're dealing 15% more damage with guise/sorc than with NLR + CDR boots. These numbers will vary based on which spells you land and what your runes are, but guise/boots will continue to be vastly better than NLR until the squishies start building merc treads/veils.
So:
A) You're not useless after level 10. That's garbage. B) You are useless if you farm up an NLR, because you're not ganking -- if you're not ganking between levels 6 and 11, you're not doing LeBlanc's job, and the enemy team will outscale you.
NLR is 1600, cdr shoes are 900= 2500- Farming a nlr is exactly the same cost wise. Not to mention your going to get the deathcap next, which boosts your damage considerably. My goal is to maximize the amount of time I can do a shit ton of damage. A guise and boots are going to hit hard at the 6-11 mark. nlr into deathcap is going to hit hard 6-18
On January 23 2011 06:40 Two_DoWn wrote: Guise is 1425. Mpen boots are 1100 total= 2525
NLR is 1600, cdr shoes are 900= 2500- Farming a nlr is exactly the same cost wise. Not to mention your going to get the deathcap next, which boosts your damage considerably. My goal is to maximize the amount of time I can do a shit ton of damage. A guise and boots are going to hit hard at the 6-11 mark. nlr into deathcap is going to hit hard 6-18
Good luck getting NLR by level 6. Sorc boots are doable around that time, but the first +damage item in your build comes MUCH later -- which is basically the problem.
On January 23 2011 06:40 Two_DoWn wrote: Guise is 1425. Mpen boots are 1100 total= 2525
NLR is 1600, cdr shoes are 900= 2500- Farming a nlr is exactly the same cost wise. Not to mention your going to get the deathcap next, which boosts your damage considerably. My goal is to maximize the amount of time I can do a shit ton of damage. A guise and boots are going to hit hard at the 6-11 mark. nlr into deathcap is going to hit hard 6-18
Good luck getting NLR by level 6. Sorc boots are doable around that time, but the first +damage item in your build comes MUCH later -- which is basically the problem.
On January 23 2011 06:40 Two_DoWn wrote: Guise is 1425. Mpen boots are 1100 total= 2525
NLR is 1600, cdr shoes are 900= 2500- Farming a nlr is exactly the same cost wise. Not to mention your going to get the deathcap next, which boosts your damage considerably. My goal is to maximize the amount of time I can do a shit ton of damage. A guise and boots are going to hit hard at the 6-11 mark. nlr into deathcap is going to hit hard 6-18
Good luck getting NLR by level 6. Sorc boots are doable around that time, but the first +damage item in your build comes MUCH later -- which is basically the problem.
how is sorc boots not a +damage item?
He's going for CDR boots, not sorc boots. This is part of the issue -- lots of farming utility, but none of the super-powerful burst-gank that actually lets LeBlanc help her team win games.
On January 23 2011 06:40 Two_DoWn wrote: Guise is 1425. Mpen boots are 1100 total= 2525
NLR is 1600, cdr shoes are 900= 2500- Farming a nlr is exactly the same cost wise. Not to mention your going to get the deathcap next, which boosts your damage considerably. My goal is to maximize the amount of time I can do a shit ton of damage. A guise and boots are going to hit hard at the 6-11 mark. nlr into deathcap is going to hit hard 6-18
Good luck getting NLR by level 6. Sorc boots are doable around that time, but the first +damage item in your build comes MUCH later -- which is basically the problem.
how is sorc boots not a +damage item?
He's going for CDR boots, not sorc boots. This is part of the issue -- lots of farming utility, but none of the super-powerful burst-gank that actually lets LeBlanc help her team win games.
On January 22 2011 14:07 oberon wrote: You really, really, want to go sorc boots + guise as your first two items on LeBlanc. You should also be ganking a ton as soon as you hit level 6. Your built-in flash means you can get from bushes to mid-lane before an opponent can react, and you have two CC abilities -- it's very hard for an opponent to survive a few hundred damage from your burst, plus being silenced/slowed/rooted while your ally beats on them. This is also why you go 0/9/21 -- you want the early, flat mpen, so the 15% mpen is worthless. You also should be running ignite over flash -- you have built in quad flash if required, and your ganks become all the more deadly with ignite.
LeBlanc, like Kass, can also run soulstealer. It has the same advantages/disadvantages.
TBH I think this is the largest misstake most Leblancs do, at least in my experience. They see her as this great ganker and do nothing but gank, while the most important factor of a nuker is to stay ahead of the rest. A under-fed Leblanc is one of the most pathetic heroes in LoL. Many a games when I've played with a Leblanc they just run around ganking with their 23 CS while you start nearing 100 : (
Each (successful) gank nets a minimum (minimum!) of 300 cash. This is equivalent to almost 2 waves of hitting every minion. Beyond that, the whole point of LeBlanc is that she's a good assassin who doesn't scale well lategame. If you're not ganking lanes so your team can take towers/dragon/etc., you're not doing your job. She's not really an AP-carry like Anivia, Kennen, etc., because she just doesn't have the AoE to do that. Also note that W->R is ridiculous for farming, and if you're accomplishing anything at all it should be able to one shot entire waves relatively early (level 11 + NLR, I think?). So it's not like you can't catch up on farm later.
In summary: sorc/guise is optimal, it is not a mistake, and if you want to farm and build a deathcap, you shouldn't be playing LeBlanc.
I usually run Soulstealer because she is pretty much unkillable during the mid game. And as for not scaling well perhaps because I'm not high ELO but I'm still one-shotting carrys (and by that I mean QRWE or WQRE depending on the situation). Hell last game my E hit for 400 on the first hit. By level 16 I'm usually a monster with atleast 14+ stacks of soulstealer and killing people left right and center.
On January 22 2011 14:07 oberon wrote: You really, really, want to go sorc boots + guise as your first two items on LeBlanc. You should also be ganking a ton as soon as you hit level 6. Your built-in flash means you can get from bushes to mid-lane before an opponent can react, and you have two CC abilities -- it's very hard for an opponent to survive a few hundred damage from your burst, plus being silenced/slowed/rooted while your ally beats on them. This is also why you go 0/9/21 -- you want the early, flat mpen, so the 15% mpen is worthless. You also should be running ignite over flash -- you have built in quad flash if required, and your ganks become all the more deadly with ignite.
LeBlanc, like Kass, can also run soulstealer. It has the same advantages/disadvantages.
TBH I think this is the largest misstake most Leblancs do, at least in my experience. They see her as this great ganker and do nothing but gank, while the most important factor of a nuker is to stay ahead of the rest. A under-fed Leblanc is one of the most pathetic heroes in LoL. Many a games when I've played with a Leblanc they just run around ganking with their 23 CS while you start nearing 100 : (
Each (successful) gank nets a minimum (minimum!) of 300 cash. This is equivalent to almost 2 waves of hitting every minion. Beyond that, the whole point of LeBlanc is that she's a good assassin who doesn't scale well lategame. If you're not ganking lanes so your team can take towers/dragon/etc., you're not doing your job. She's not really an AP-carry like Anivia, Kennen, etc., because she just doesn't have the AoE to do that. Also note that W->R is ridiculous for farming, and if you're accomplishing anything at all it should be able to one shot entire waves relatively early (level 11 + NLR, I think?). So it's not like you can't catch up on farm later.
In summary: sorc/guise is optimal, it is not a mistake, and if you want to farm and build a deathcap, you shouldn't be playing LeBlanc.
I usually run Soulstealer because she is pretty much unkillable during the mid game. And as for not scaling well perhaps because I'm not high ELO but I'm still one-shotting carrys (and by that I mean QRWE or WQRE depending on the situation). Hell last game my E hit for 400 on the first hit. By level 16 I'm usually a monster with atleast 14+ stacks of soulstealer and killing people left right and center.
If you're consistently 14+ stacks on mejai's, your ELO *will* rise until this is no longer the case. Eventually, it will rise to the point that carries buy Banshee's Veils with regularity. Then, you will be sad.
How would Leblanc fair in a lane against Ezreal (pre 6 ofc, once she has QRQW or w/e the combo is she blows him up easy)? I have faced her once or twice mid, and whenever she tried to W on top of me, i just blinked away and shot a Q at her face. (I am in no way saying this person i was facing was good, they went Q first)
cant blink when silenced and when u do blink after the silence, the root will still proc cause of huge range. though im normally more passive in that lvl range and only engage when i landed a chain first.
On August 13 2011 12:35 Odds wrote: I'm going to try some games with 21 in offense for superior harass and lasthitting. Also maybe 21 defense letanc so good
What are you going to do with everything in between the mpen at 9 and the increased damage from 21? I can't imagine it is better than having 21 in utility. Movespeed, mana regen, cdr and summoner cdr just sooo much more useful than a bit more damage imo.
If you have some spare cash, which you should, ward the enemy jungle buffs (or if your team is coordinated, get your support to CV them constantly) and pick off their jungler. You should be able to LeBonk most jungles with the element of surprise.
Somebody mentioned that support LeBlanc can shut down somebody diving your carry for ten or so seconds with 40% CDR. How would I build this if I felt like messing around? Reverie / CDR Boots was mentioned but I was thinking DFG over Reverie or adding Mejai's to keep some relevant damage if it comes down to it. Some combination of Exhaust, Ignite, and CV, or something like that.
yeah that was the point, pretty much any support you could choose would be better for the laning phase. ranged ad need something that either provides sustain or mitigates dmg in some way. leblanc doesnt really have that
On October 12 2011 09:44 barbsq wrote: yeah that was the point, pretty much any support you could choose would be better for the laning phase. ranged ad need something that either provides sustain or mitigates dmg in some way. leblanc doesnt really have that
I was hoping that Caitlyn's strong laning would make up for it.
I build her 2x Dorans with Sorcs into DC into Void Staff usually.
Her best matchups are people that arent Galio. Anyone else is a 1 shot candidate unless they stack MR early, in which case they delay damage for mid game so you blow your 1 person up and get out.
Some people that push lanes ezpz can be a bitch, Cassiopeia, Morgana (+shield,) Gragas, Malzahar etc.
After DC-> Void staff generally I get Banshees and then zhonyas or abyssal, if I start out amazingly I'll be gay and go Soulstealer ->Sorcs -> Haunting Guise and try to win in sub 20 minutes
I'd probly recommend getting DFG before void staff or even DC if you are ahead as at that point people probly wont have itemised much hard MR. DFG always feels like its overpowered and perfectly fits LBs kit to 100-0 someone.
Usually I get boots first then 2-3 dorans rings depending on how much roaming I am doing. Then either I build DFG or DC, I like DFG better as a first item as it builds out of easier components and is very useful. From there on I usually get DC> void and then a banshee so you can just go get their AD in the teamfights.
Playstyle wise I usually play pretty passive until level 4-6ish depending on matchup, then i'll try either go for the kill or zone/force them out of lane. Remember to keep your W unless you're sure you can kill them as that's gonna be your escape for ganks and if you get caught out without it while pushed then you're pretty much dead. However sometimes junglers are stupid and gank on <75% health, you can just kill them post-6 and run away. You run into the danger of using too much mana for what it's worth if you start at level1-3, however if you get to level 2 first you can press an early lane advantage.
(will edit later for teamfights, im bored at work)
Early on you may have to deal with small fights in the jungle, LB excels at these 2-3 man skirmishes as she can just pop her combo, run out and then pop it again for the kill. In the jungle abuse the fog of war and try to only be seen when doing damage.
When it comes to dragon fights you should let your team do dragon while you zone them, try hang out in a bush which isnt the little one in the river as thats the most obvious, sometimes I opt for the one by red buff or the side of mid lane so I can run in behind them to pick off a squishy. Leblanc has a favourable position if you are behind the enemy team unseen. Sometimes you wont have this option so you'd have to approach from the side of their team as they initiate to pick someone off or just stay behind your own team (least favourable, but most safe option.)
The goal for Leblanc in the fight is to take down a squishy and then either distract as much attention as possible if you get away with alot of hp, or to wait and take down another. Her chains are rather good for disrupting enemy tanks if you are playing the safer options.
Another great thing about LB is that her juking in the jungle is strong, along with your summoner flash you have 3 jumps if required, and counting the fact that you can turn your W into 2 jumps, juking can become ridiculous.
The most common problem for most inexperience LB players is the complaint "Leblanc is useless lategame", which I find most games untrue. This problem often stems from wrong approach, or wrong build, later on if you are facing death alot then I would build banshees to ensure my ability to burst down someone in the fight without getting instagibbed myself. Priority champion switches from AP to the AD later on in the game for obvious reasons, once you take the priority out as Leblanc, anything else you do is a bonus. By wrong approach I mean that in late game fights, leblanc players trying to gib their target from the back of their own team are highly unlikely to. You have to catch them off guard running from one place to another, or take a riskier approach from the back or side during a fight. Ward control can be a huge factor in this.
The other problem is if you lose lane as LB or they stack so much MR that you become ineffective, in these cases then LB is pretty useless lategame. If you lost lane then you must have chose an unfavourable matchup or played pretty poorly and in that case deserve to be useless. However if the rest of their team had to build banshees veil then you delayed their builds and forced an item slot from them (banshees still pretty useful anyway though lol.) In these cases where you are the loser, you just have to become a ward bitch and maybe even build aura items to be as useful as possible. aka, lose lane or get counterbuilt = become a support instead.. One other thing if they all build MR is to go after the support as they will not have itemised as well as the others and are still a crucial part of the teamfight.
Wow this post was so much longer than I thought it'd be, I must be bored.
I actually do think LeBlanc *is* useless in late game; she lacks certain utility in team fights because her spells are either not AOE, has short range, or is a linear collision skillshot. So she absolutely has to be able to win the early laning phase. But I think her kit is good enough that she will come on top of *most* AP carries in mid... except:
1) Fiddlestick 2) Vlad 3) Kassadin
All of which has some silence or other kinds of mechanism which can easily break your combo.
Overall, LeBlanc is a counterpick; she does well against most "conventional" ap carries such as Annie, Ahri, Cass, Mal, Karthus, Brand, Xerath, etc. But she is pretty useless in her own right. It's kind of like Vlad, I think.
Well I never said she would be useful without winning laning phase.
"If you lost lane then you must have chose an unfavourable matchup or played pretty poorly and in that case deserve to be useless."
Anyway I addressed this in the previous post, even though she doesnt have much utility she still functions well as an assasin lategame, obviously she doesn't scale as well as the AOE champs but she's not useless at all.
On April 16 2012 21:32 Sufficiency wrote: I actually do think LeBlanc *is* useless in late game; she lacks certain utility in team fights because her spells are either not AOE, has short range, or is a linear collision skillshot. So she absolutely has to be able to win the early laning phase. But I think her kit is good enough that she will come on top of *most* AP carries in mid... except:
1) Fiddlestick 2) Vlad 3) Kassadin
All of which has some silence or other kinds of mechanism which can easily break your combo.
Overall, LeBlanc is a counterpick; she does well against most "conventional" ap carries such as Annie, Ahri, Cass, Mal, Karthus, Brand, Xerath, etc. But she is pretty useless in her own right. It's kind of like Vlad, I think.
Vlad useless what?
LB is great mid, just dont play her vs the counterpicks, I'm not sure why you didnt mention Galio the classic counterpick, and AP Sion shits on LB roaming as well as in lane.
Lategame she isnt amazing but if you have won lane and roamed and helped your other lanes win, you are the best assasin in the game. Its nearly impossible to keep LB from gibbing your AD with decent ward coverage. If you really need the AOE damage you can go for the LB bomb where you WR into as many of them as you can, toss off a binding and pop zhonyas/flash out over wall. You'll probably die horribly, but you can do so much damage that it can be totally worth it.
On April 16 2012 21:32 Sufficiency wrote: I actually do think LeBlanc *is* useless in late game; she lacks certain utility in team fights because her spells are either not AOE, has short range, or is a linear collision skillshot. So she absolutely has to be able to win the early laning phase. But I think her kit is good enough that she will come on top of *most* AP carries in mid... except:
1) Fiddlestick 2) Vlad 3) Kassadin
All of which has some silence or other kinds of mechanism which can easily break your combo.
Overall, LeBlanc is a counterpick; she does well against most "conventional" ap carries such as Annie, Ahri, Cass, Mal, Karthus, Brand, Xerath, etc. But she is pretty useless in her own right. It's kind of like Vlad, I think.
Vlad useless what?
LB is great mid, just dont play her vs the counterpicks, I'm not sure why you didnt mention Galio the classic counterpick, and AP Sion shits on LB roaming as well as in lane.
Lategame she isnt amazing but if you have won lane and roamed and helped your other lanes win, you are the best assasin in the game. Its nearly impossible to keep LB from gibbing your AD with decent ward coverage. If you really need the AOE damage you can go for the LB bomb where you WR into as many of them as you can, toss off a binding and pop zhonyas/flash out over wall. You'll probably die horribly, but you can do so much damage that it can be totally worth it.
Galio I forgot.
I am not sure if AP Sion is a counter to LeBlanc though. LeBlanc can burst easily and consistently to pop Sion's shield, so I never had problems against Sion. The only thing Sion has going is a larger health pool.
I am a little biased against Vlad. It feels to me that he has poor scaling, his only advantage is his sustain (which can't be matched with AD sustain, so....), and like many manaless champions, do not do well in late game. I could be wrong though.
First of all, I have no idea how Vlad can break LB's combos. Vlad's pool has a higher CD than LB's Q and W, so even if Vlad pools right after LB W's toward him and lands her Q so that he can avoid her QR burst, LB can simply just do the same thing again when she gets her W back before he gets his pool back. Vlad also doesn't have a long range on his Q so you can just walk up to him and QW and he won't be able to do anything about it. This just doesn't make any sense at all.
Secondly, Vlad does not do bad in lategame. I have no idea where some of you people get these ideas. He does a ton of AOE damage on a very low cool down.
On April 16 2012 21:32 Sufficiency wrote: I actually do think LeBlanc *is* useless in late game; she lacks certain utility in team fights because her spells are either not AOE, has short range, or is a linear collision skillshot. So she absolutely has to be able to win the early laning phase. But I think her kit is good enough that she will come on top of *most* AP carries in mid... except:
1) Fiddlestick 2) Vlad 3) Kassadin
All of which has some silence or other kinds of mechanism which can easily break your combo.
Overall, LeBlanc is a counterpick; she does well against most "conventional" ap carries such as Annie, Ahri, Cass, Mal, Karthus, Brand, Xerath, etc. But she is pretty useless in her own right. It's kind of like Vlad, I think.
Vlad useless what?
LB is great mid, just dont play her vs the counterpicks, I'm not sure why you didnt mention Galio the classic counterpick, and AP Sion shits on LB roaming as well as in lane.
Lategame she isnt amazing but if you have won lane and roamed and helped your other lanes win, you are the best assasin in the game. Its nearly impossible to keep LB from gibbing your AD with decent ward coverage. If you really need the AOE damage you can go for the LB bomb where you WR into as many of them as you can, toss off a binding and pop zhonyas/flash out over wall. You'll probably die horribly, but you can do so much damage that it can be totally worth it.
Galio I forgot.
I am not sure if AP Sion is a counter to LeBlanc though. LeBlanc can burst easily and consistently to pop Sion's shield, so I never had problems against Sion. The only thing Sion has going is a larger health pool.
I am a little biased against Vlad. It feels to me that he has poor scaling, his only advantage is his sustain (which can't be matched with AD sustain, so....), and like many manaless champions, do not do well in late game. I could be wrong though.
Watch some of the IPL games where Dyrus craps all over teamfights with Vlad, Vlad is really strong at all stages of the game.
AP Sion most definitely counters LB. You will run out of mana popping shield and meanwhile you can't roam at all and if you dont pop the shield he will instaclear the wave and triple your CS while you are under turret. Saying that you have no problems against AP Sion with LB makes me think you havent played the matchup and are just theory crafting.
On April 16 2012 21:32 Sufficiency wrote: I actually do think LeBlanc *is* useless in late game; she lacks certain utility in team fights because her spells are either not AOE, has short range, or is a linear collision skillshot. So she absolutely has to be able to win the early laning phase. But I think her kit is good enough that she will come on top of *most* AP carries in mid... except:
1) Fiddlestick 2) Vlad 3) Kassadin
All of which has some silence or other kinds of mechanism which can easily break your combo.
Overall, LeBlanc is a counterpick; she does well against most "conventional" ap carries such as Annie, Ahri, Cass, Mal, Karthus, Brand, Xerath, etc. But she is pretty useless in her own right. It's kind of like Vlad, I think.
Vlad useless what?
LB is great mid, just dont play her vs the counterpicks, I'm not sure why you didnt mention Galio the classic counterpick, and AP Sion shits on LB roaming as well as in lane.
Lategame she isnt amazing but if you have won lane and roamed and helped your other lanes win, you are the best assasin in the game. Its nearly impossible to keep LB from gibbing your AD with decent ward coverage. If you really need the AOE damage you can go for the LB bomb where you WR into as many of them as you can, toss off a binding and pop zhonyas/flash out over wall. You'll probably die horribly, but you can do so much damage that it can be totally worth it.
Galio I forgot.
I am not sure if AP Sion is a counter to LeBlanc though. LeBlanc can burst easily and consistently to pop Sion's shield, so I never had problems against Sion. The only thing Sion has going is a larger health pool.
I am a little biased against Vlad. It feels to me that he has poor scaling, his only advantage is his sustain (which can't be matched with AD sustain, so....), and like many manaless champions, do not do well in late game. I could be wrong though.
Watch some of the IPL games where Dyrus craps all over teamfights with Vlad, Vlad is really strong at all stages of the game.
AP Sion most definitely counters LB. You will run out of mana popping shield and meanwhile you can't roam at all and if you dont pop the shield he will instaclear the wave and triple your CS while you are under turret. Saying that you have no problems against AP Sion with LB makes me think you havent played the matchup and are just theory crafting.
I only played once or twice against Sion with LB and i agree. I can deal with some of the clear counterpicks ok but Sion is quite hard to beat. It's not impossible but you need to be on top of your combo and timings (combo right when shield exploded) but also have quite some luck on your side. It's not a matchup i would recommend trying as LB.
In lategame, LeBlanc can do a ton of damage to the opponents AP carries or supports and makes the opponent play a lot more defensive and spend gold on magic resistance that is not spent on items hurting your team. Teamfight starts => jump in => QRE that Sona,Sokara,Lulu,Brand,Annie or whatever else is most annoying and the target is dead or low enough to either run away or get picked of by 1-2 hits of your AD carry.
If the enemy team runs, WE and one of them won't get far.
Then again, i'm only a midlevel player, i.e. i suck and i don't understand the game :p Still, LeBlanc is sooooooo much fun, one of my favourite champions by far.
I think I've only ever lost to LB as Sion once and that was when I was tired and got majorly outplayed. I actually take heal on sion vs lb just to ensure I don't feed. You're going to be killing her landing full combos eventually with or without ignite anyway.
Other than the fact that you can push wave and gain hp for each creep you take, or just take no damage from her it is a pretty advantageous lane for sion. There is also the roam threat while LB will be stuck at tower.
I'm having trouble with dominating lanes with LeBLanc. It seems that I telegraph my intent to harass too much. I actually lost a lane to a TF earlier because my LB is so horribly bad.
I mean, it's fun, but hard. Does anyone have any VOD's of a High Elo LeBlanc? Or even any tips?
Make sure you get autoattacks off in your trades. Your q has longer range than most point and click spells so you can simply q auto w and auto as desired before you eat significant creep aggro and w back out for trades. Usually they will only get off 1 spell in this combo before gettig silenced. Against tf in particular try to q and w at an angle so that when you get un-stunned and he gets un-silenced you can reactivate your w to dodge his wild cards should he decide to throw them.
It is important to try to never eat free damage or harass as most laners but it is absolutely crucial for leblanc as her combo requires her to get into pretty close range to the enemy to pop your q's silence reliably, putting you at high risk of cc if the enemy has one which thus exposes you to ganks and creep aggro if you autoattacked (worth considering before you auto early levels), which usually makes for fairly close hp in lane until you commit or trade exceptionally well.
So I've had Leblanc for awhile now but lately I've been playing a very heavy Magic Pen build on her and it's actually working out extremely well. I have been going Boots + 3 > haunting guise (sometimes I'd do a dorans or two before HG, depends when I have to go back and how much gold I have) > sorc boots > blasting wand > abyssal > blasting wand > void staff.
Unless everybody on the enemy team starts building at least some magic resistance item you will still chunk them no matter what. Was even an enemy singed on the other team, with his ult on and a force of nature with just a Q > Mimic Q combo would still bring him down close to 50% (lvl 3 ult that is) If I ever got on their AD carry, support or jungler they didn't have enough magic resistance and I could for the part 100-0 them if I could do my full W-E-Q-R combo. Mainly because you're doing true damage with your spells because of all the m-penn.
My best game was something crazy like 25-2-10 or so.
Now usually ever other time I played leblanc I'd either get an early deathcap or even go into DFG to make your combo that much stronger, but after doing the first "troll all magic penn" build and it working as well as it did I tried it in a few other games and it seemed to work just as well. Wondering if anyone else has any experience with a heavy magic penn build on leblanc.
On July 02 2012 13:55 SidianTheBard wrote: So I've had Leblanc for awhile now but lately I've been playing a very heavy Magic Pen build on her and it's actually working out extremely well. I have been going Boots + 3 > haunting guise (sometimes I'd do a dorans or two before HG, depends when I have to go back and how much gold I have) > sorc boots > blasting wand > abyssal > blasting wand > void staff.
Unless everybody on the enemy team starts building at least some magic resistance item you will still chunk them no matter what. Was even an enemy singed on the other team, with his ult on and a force of nature with just a Q > Mimic Q combo would still bring him down close to 50% (lvl 3 ult that is) If I ever got on their AD carry, support or jungler they didn't have enough magic resistance and I could for the part 100-0 them if I could do my full W-E-Q-R combo. Mainly because you're doing true damage with your spells because of all the m-penn.
My best game was something crazy like 25-2-10 or so.
Now usually ever other time I played leblanc I'd either get an early deathcap or even go into DFG to make your combo that much stronger, but after doing the first "troll all magic penn" build and it working as well as it did I tried it in a few other games and it seemed to work just as well. Wondering if anyone else has any experience with a heavy magic penn build on leblanc.
Yeah, I've done it before too and it is really strong if the other team doesn't build MR. If you can get Sorc Shoes+haunting guise within 10-12 minutes it actually increases your damage like 20-30%. 40 magic pen OP because unlike armor pen magic pen reduces MR below zero.
You get more damage increase from SorcShoes+Haunting guise by a rather large amount than you do from SorcShoes+NLG for sure, thing is it scales really poorly once people start getting magioc resist. Plus, if you ever feel like getting Void Staff you basically wasted all the gold spent getting Haunting Guise and Sorc Shoes because flat pen calculated before percent pen so your magic penetration with just VoidStaff and with Sorc Shoes+Haunting Guise+VoidStaf is virtually identical.
So... the above being stated seeing how most good players whoa re playing against LB are just gonna stack MR and farm anyway I dont think the build is that good. However, it is like a stupidly strong pubstomp build. Like personally I see LB and I am gonna rock a full MR rune page and just eventually outscale her because she couldn't kill me in lane... if I get a Negatron/Null Magic mantle LB just gonna be useless, especially if you only have magic pen items. Not to mention, its pretty rare that LB shows up to any lane not her own and doesn't have the burst to instagib someone with the laner assisting anyway.
On July 02 2012 16:50 iCanada wrote:Yeah, I've done it before too and it is really strong if the other team doesn't build MR. If you can get Sorc Shoes+haunting guise within 10-12 minutes it actually increases your damage like 20-30%. 40 magic pen OP because unlike armor pen magic pen reduces MR below zero.
On July 02 2012 16:50 iCanada wrote:Yeah, I've done it before too and it is really strong if the other team doesn't build MR. If you can get Sorc Shoes+haunting guise within 10-12 minutes it actually increases your damage like 20-30%. 40 magic pen OP because unlike armor pen magic pen reduces MR below zero.
But the rest of what I had to say pretty much stays the same. Its like getting a Bruta on a top laner, if they gonna come with a chain vest first back you might as well not even bother.
With that being said, who doesn't build MR vs LeBlanc?
Use case of Haunting Guise - lane opponent doesn't get an MR item within their first ~3k gold. I am calculating this against a "control" of 3x doran rings - stacking dorans is the "more normal" way to go if you are looking to establish a large amount of early game dominance at the cost of delaying your core items. Another comparison could be comparing 1 doran + guise vs 2 dorans + blasting wand, but someone else can do the math for that.
Lane Opponent runes- 30 MR base + Flat MR blues & quints (let's assume they picked a decent runepage and not some 0 mr garbage. If they did that you could do the day9 strategy of "just fucking kill them") 54 MR Your runes: MPen Reds - 8.55 MPen, flat MR blues, flat AP Quints (14.95 AP) Your masteries: 1 AP/level, 5% AP. No flat ap because flat AD is generally accepted as a better choice. No havoc / executioner because they affect both builds equally (well, technically executioner favors the higher damage build because you get them below 40% sooner.) 45.51 Modified MR (68.72% damage taken)
after you get sorc shoes: 25.51 Modified MR (79.67% damage taken) after you get haunting guise: 5.51 Modified MR (94.78% damage taken)
Q Total at 9 - 330+0.9AP R at 9: 363+0.99AP R at 11: 412+1.125AP E at level 1: 40+0.5 AP (potentially x2 if leash doesn't break) W at level 2 or 3 (2 at 9, 3 at 11) (85 | 125) + 0.6AP damage So we're going to look at the damage of a QR at level 9 (level 2 W or level 1 E to pop the second sigil for silence + extra damage) or RQ (again, w or e to pop) at level 9 (Is this a fair assessment of when you reach 2600 gold on a normal day?)
Wow, that's a pretty big difference. It's only going to get bigger as you add in AP items to both builds.
But what happens when the enemy gets an early Negatron Cloak? This lowers the power of Magic Penetration, so is the guise still better? Dorans+sorc = 25.51 + 48 = 73.51 Modified MR = 57.64% Damage taken Guise+Sorc = 5.51 + 48 = 53.51 Modified MR = 65.14% Damage taken
Again, at level 9: 3 Dorans + sorc vs negatron cloak: .5764 (330+363 + 56.7*2.39) = 478 Damage Guise + sorc vs negatron cloak: .6514 (330+363+35.7*2.39) = 507 Damage
Less powerful, but still more damage. Again, as you add AP, the guise actually improves faster than just building AP items, because it increases your damage MULTIPLIER, which means each point of AP is worth proportionally more.
There is a breaking point where the guise isn't worth it, but apparently it's beyond 100 MR. It also depends on your base damage vs your AP ratios, but Leblanc has pretty high ratios (especially on R) and the guise is still worth it.
It can't be ignored that the Haunting Guise is pretty severely lacking in MP5, though - Leblanc's mana costs are significant.
I realize I forgot to include 10% MPen. I don't wanna redo the math D: With the lead it has however, I think it can be agreed upon that guise is more damage until over 100 MR.
Support Labonk in 10 minutes Summoners: Heal and Flash/CV/Exhaust/Ignite/Cleanse Masteries and Runes: Whatever you run on your other supports.
Skills: EWQ, then max Q if you need to kill people and E if you need to peel for your carry super hard. Max W second in all cases. R/Q/W/E or R/E/W/Q
Items: Philo -> Kage -> Guardian Angel -> Oracles whenever you have GA up -> Mejai's -> Morello's -> 5 wards at all times -> spam blue pots too now -> Banshee's -> Rylai / Deathcap / Void Staff Which boots? Ionian, Sorcs, Mercs, Tabi, and Mobility boots are your choices. I pretty much only get Mercs and Mobility. The drawback to Ionian is that you don't have the mana to keep up that level of ability usage. Sorcs is for people who want to do more damage, and you don't need more damage as badly as you need more survivability. Tabi is good for taking one or two more autos from a late game carry, but they're not enough of a difference to be worth giving up the slipperiness or the map control. Mobilities are the best for map control, and my choice most of the time. If you take cleanse, take mobis. Mercs are only better if the enemy team has lots of AoE disables (well, even just one makes Mercs worth considering).
Your goal is to get Guardian Angel, an Oracle's, a Mejai's, and 40% CDR, in that order. Usually, this means Philo Kage then GA parts. Keep ward coverage up, but try to get your carry/jungle to pick up a few because GA stands for God Mode. Unless you're really fed, the most difficult part of the game is getting to GA. Once you have GA your playstyle totally changes and you can take many more risks.
Before GA, you're a squishy mage with low burst but high mobility and lots of CC. If your lane partner has a disable, try to let them hit it first, then follow up with QWE. Otherwise poke with E, then follow up with QW. You're very good at escaping ganks, so try to save your lane partner by spamming Es at the jungler.
After GA, you're basically invincible unless you play super brave. Use your oracles well - your team should have full map vision at all times, and the enemy team should have zero. You can w into a bush and poof back out before the enemy team has time to react, so bait like a champion. Remember, every disable you absorb is one not aimed at your carry! In teamfights, just keep whoever's diving your carry either silenced or snared. Save W for critical silence procs or escaping (or bravely fasecheking some brushes). If you have >10 mejai's stacks, you can try playing the assassin, but you're still unlikely to hit that critical 100->dead unless the enemy carry is scrubface. Remember that once you have Morello's
99% of games will end before even Banshee's, and those that don't, you usually want to leave your 6th slot open for a full stack of wards, but those are your best choices for item. If you don't like mejai's, those are your best replacements.
Use your mobility to keep the map clear of enemy wards; steal a little farm here and there too. You can get places remarkably fast, especially with Mobi boots, so abuse that to get some $$brouzoufs$$.
When does Labonk work? As a bot lane partner, Labonk wants someone who pokes well, like Ezreal or Varus, or someone who can take the damage well, like Graves. A strong ganky jungler is also a huge asset. Nautilus, Shyvana, Lee Sin and Amumu are all good teammates. Champions that love having map control love Labonk. Twitch and Evelynn are pushing the limits of teamfight-suckery, though. Fiddlesticks is one of the best partners for Labonk, and nicely shores up her teamfight weaknesses. Champions that can shield or heal Labonk greatly extend her annoying survivability. Try Morgana, Lee Sin, or Shen.
When does Labonk NOT work? Don't pick Labonk into a high-AoE-damage team. Unlike assassin labonk, you don't care if they're all super tanky. You just don't want to accidentally die while they're targeting someone else. Don't pick Labonk into Graves, or a tanky support on the enemy team. You will cry. Try to avoid Karthus, as while you can ensure he dies in fights, he will ensure that you do too, and you don't want to lose that oracles.
It's a 2 second snare. You can, with perfect timing, keep someone locked down for 14 full seconds. The only reasonable way to improve it would be to decrease the trigger time on the snare portion. The other thing that would be nice would be slightly tweaking her base numbers so she doesn't blow up automatically.
So I hear people talk about building MR when laning against Leblanc, but how (and when) are you supposed to itemize it? Straight up buy a Negatron after a couple Doran's? Use Viktor as an example if the question is too broad.
On August 02 2012 03:55 Tooplark wrote: It's a 2 second snare. You can, with perfect timing, keep someone locked down for 14 full seconds. The only reasonable way to improve it would be to decrease the trigger time on the snare portion. The other thing that would be nice would be slightly tweaking her base numbers so she doesn't blow up automatically.
I think LeBlanc should be allowed to cancel her E early to active the snare. In exchange, the second half of E's damage is dealt over time while her chain is up, so if she cacels her E early she loses some of the damage.
On August 02 2012 03:55 Tooplark wrote: It's a 2 second snare. You can, with perfect timing, keep someone locked down for 14 full seconds. The only reasonable way to improve it would be to decrease the trigger time on the snare portion. The other thing that would be nice would be slightly tweaking her base numbers so she doesn't blow up automatically.
I think LeBlanc should be allowed to cancel her E early to active the snare. In exchange, the second half of E's damage is dealt over time while her chain is up, so if she cacels her E early she loses some of the damage.
Eh... she probably already has them silenced anyway when her E is ticking on someone (since landing E triggers silence) so they can't flash away, can't use any dash move... if you can't walk with a slowed target to maintain the leash, i think you shouldn't really be benefitting from it.
On August 02 2012 05:14 Hyren wrote: So I hear people talk about building MR when laning against Leblanc, but how (and when) are you supposed to itemize it? Straight up buy a Negatron after a couple Doran's? Use Viktor as an example if the question is too broad.
I personally like to go a single dorans -> negatron -> abyssal. If you're running MR runes, building health might be more useful than MR. Haunting guise, catalyst -> RoA, and other build paths are also good.
On August 02 2012 05:14 Hyren wrote: So I hear people talk about building MR when laning against Leblanc, but how (and when) are you supposed to itemize it? Straight up buy a Negatron after a couple Doran's? Use Viktor as an example if the question is too broad.
I personally like to go a single dorans -> negatron -> abyssal. If you're running MR runes, building health might be more useful than MR. Haunting guise, catalyst -> RoA, and other build paths are also good.
The thing with leblanc is that she has essentially one job in teamfights: taking out the ad carry. Even if you buy a negatron, it will still be hard to prevent leblanc from pushing the lane and roaming around ganking. I actually played quite a few games against galio where i simply ignored him completely
On August 02 2012 05:14 Hyren wrote: So I hear people talk about building MR when laning against Leblanc, but how (and when) are you supposed to itemize it? Straight up buy a Negatron after a couple Doran's? Use Viktor as an example if the question is too broad.
I personally like to go a single dorans -> negatron -> abyssal. If you're running MR runes, building health might be more useful than MR. Haunting guise, catalyst -> RoA, and other build paths are also good.
The thing with leblanc is that she has essentially one job in teamfights: taking out the ad carry. Even if you buy a negatron, it will still be hard to prevent leblanc from pushing the lane and roaming around ganking. I actually played quite a few games against galio where i simply ignored him completely
Going RoA is definitely in the WRONG direction.
Haunting Guise is OK, but due to LeBlanc's power curve, is not the most well-rounded option (HG favours early game, LB's early game is strong enough as it is).
LB doesn't need anything to be more playable, she is a very specific champion niche and is fucking great at it with a really large skillcap. She is strong.
On August 02 2012 07:33 sob3k wrote: LB doesn't need anything to be more playable, she is a very specific champion niche and is fucking great at it with a really large skillcap. She is strong.
I think her skillcap is pretty low. Her main damage tool is point-and-click, her W is short-ranged AOE with large radius and short travel time (i.e. never misses); the only thing "hard" about LeBlanc in terms of her kit is her E.
Beside that, you just need to know how much damage you can do. Her WQRE combo is very safe to execute because of W's return.
You also need to know how to last hit, of course. But last hitting with LeBlanc is really, really easy because of her missile speed.
On August 02 2012 07:33 sob3k wrote: LB doesn't need anything to be more playable, she is a very specific champion niche and is fucking great at it with a really large skillcap. She is strong.
I think her skillcap is pretty low. Her main damage tool is point-and-click, her W is short-ranged AOE with large radius and short travel time (i.e. never misses); the only thing "hard" about LeBlanc in terms of her kit is her E.
Beside that, you just need to know how much damage you can do. Her WQRE combo is very safe to execute because of W's return.
You also need to know how to last hit, of course. But last hitting with LeBlanc is really, really easy because of her missile speed.
No way, especially lategame she has huge options in combo order and targeting, and huge options in juking and positioning with the changes to her dash/revert while targeting her snares and staying in range to proc them and the sigils in team fights.
Just because nobody bothers to get really really good with her doesn't mean it isn't there. Thats like saying lee sin is just a safe QQEEWW. WQRE or QRWE isn't even her max damage combo later.
Labonk has a huge skillcap. You really do have to think about what order you use everything in, while keeping track of your blinks, positioning close enough to hit with E but far enough to be safe, and so on. Midgame, it's most efficient to (Q) RQWE or whatever, but late game, especially once you start getting cdr, you can do things like QE, QW, E RQ for maximum silence/root duration. Also, E has a higher AP ratio than Q.
On August 02 2012 08:32 Tooplark wrote: Labonk has a huge skillcap. You really do have to think about what order you use everything in, while keeping track of your blinks, positioning close enough to hit with E but far enough to be safe, and so on. Midgame, it's most efficient to (Q) RQWE or whatever, but late game, especially once you start getting cdr, you can do things like QE, QW, E RQ for maximum silence/root duration. Also, E has a higher AP ratio than Q.
theres rly only 1 reliable combo for lb: dfg/w to get in range/q/r. for e to do more damage than q, you need like over 500 ap.
On August 02 2012 08:32 Tooplark wrote: Labonk has a huge skillcap. You really do have to think about what order you use everything in, while keeping track of your blinks, positioning close enough to hit with E but far enough to be safe, and so on. Midgame, it's most efficient to (Q) RQWE or whatever, but late game, especially once you start getting cdr, you can do things like QE, QW, E RQ for maximum silence/root duration. Also, E has a higher AP ratio than Q.
The problem with those is that rarely you get the opportunity to survive that long to finish the combo. This is also the problem with her E - it does have higher ratio, but the fact that half of the damage is delayed makes it impossible to use in a teamfight/larger skirmishes - as soon as you appear you WILL be focused and utterly destroyed - it doesn't help even the slightest that LeBlanc has one of the lowest HP/HP growth out of all conventional mid laners. Furthermore, her range is really poor beside her W. To demand a LeBlanc to use QRQWE or QEQWERQ is simply unrealistic for LeBlanc.
No, LeBlanc does not have a huge skillcap, because the majority of her damage source comes from her Q, which is point-and-click. Yes, I do play her frequently and I used to consider her as one of my "mains" before I got much better at the game. And no, CDR is not useful on LeBlanc.
On August 02 2012 08:32 Tooplark wrote: Labonk has a huge skillcap. You really do have to think about what order you use everything in, while keeping track of your blinks, positioning close enough to hit with E but far enough to be safe, and so on. Midgame, it's most efficient to (Q) RQWE or whatever, but late game, especially once you start getting cdr, you can do things like QE, QW, E RQ for maximum silence/root duration. Also, E has a higher AP ratio than Q.
theres rly only 1 reliable combo for lb: dfg/w to get in range/q/r. for e to do more damage than q, you need like over 500 ap.
It doesn't matter. Even if E does more damage than Q at 100 AP it's still the last skill to max.... because half of the damage is delayed.
I dont think we are disagreeing with the ap needed for e; even if you have that many items, its still unreliable to even hit. the thing that makes lb really scary is that she requires only to be alive to do the damage necessary. even if you are at super low life, ur combo takes at most 1 second to pull off. it is all down to you sneaking around to snipe the ad carry for the team
On August 02 2012 10:06 Lightswarm wrote: I dont think we are disagreeing with the ap needed for e; even if you have that many items, its still unreliable to even hit. the thing that makes lb really scary is that she requires only to be alive to do the damage necessary. even if you are at super low life, ur combo takes at most 1 second to pull off. it is all down to you sneaking around to snipe the ad carry for the team
That's the main problem (imo) with LeBlanc and her teamfight. Her E is collision based. It's not possible to proc her E against a half-competent support because the support will always be in front of the AD carry.... unless the AD carry grossly misplays and facechecks the brushes you are in or something.
That's if you're playing her as an assassin. She is really good at peeling lategame, which people don't take advantage of because they just want to one-shot things. This also gives you a chance to show off your technical skills with sikk jukes and mad combos.
LB too good in blind picks. I wanted to add some assasins to my champ list, and started toying around with LB, i think i am something like 7 wins 0 losses in blind picks, and 70/8/50 in stats... Once i almost got the courage to try her in ranked, but someone dodged instantly so no luck. My ranked elo is a lot higher then my normal, so will be funny to see how she works there... Have been going 2-3 dorans -> DFG -> raba -> void. But don't really know what to get after that. Maybe zhonyas for more AP + escapes?
On August 05 2012 21:40 Gaslo wrote: LB too good in blind picks. I wanted to add some assasins to my champ list, and started toying around with LB, i think i am something like 7 wins 0 losses in blind picks, and 70/8/50 in stats... Once i almost got the courage to try her in ranked, but someone dodged instantly so no luck. My ranked elo is a lot higher then my normal, so will be funny to see how she works there... Have been going 2-3 dorans -> DFG -> raba -> void. But don't really know what to get after that. Maybe zhonyas for more AP + escapes?
LB isn't as good when you can actually see what the other team is picking. They can just throw Morgana or Mordekaiser at you and assuming equal skill you will lose lane.
Your build is fine but Zhonyas depends on enemy team, AP heavy means abyssal and AD heavy Zhonyas, if a mix I prefer abyssal but that's just me.
On August 05 2012 21:40 Gaslo wrote: LB too good in blind picks. I wanted to add some assasins to my champ list, and started toying around with LB, i think i am something like 7 wins 0 losses in blind picks, and 70/8/50 in stats... Once i almost got the courage to try her in ranked, but someone dodged instantly so no luck. My ranked elo is a lot higher then my normal, so will be funny to see how she works there... Have been going 2-3 dorans -> DFG -> raba -> void. But don't really know what to get after that. Maybe zhonyas for more AP + escapes?
A good choice after DFG/DCAP/VS is actually Rylai's. It helps you to be a bit more effective in kiting and peeling for your ad carry after your initial burst. LeBlanc's E is absolute bane for melee bruisers. The extra HP can also help you survive slightly longer.
bump to ask about support lb, i dont think its viable as a regular pick but was just wondering what we can theorycraft about it, and what problems would arise in high-level play running lb+(a good early game/skirmishing adc) botlane.
if it was even remotely viable what is a good starting build? i've ran mana manipulator + wards and faerie + wards/pots.
my thought is you can really fuck up the enemy adc and at least zone them from cs...have no idea if it has any niche or not. also its potentially good vs other aggressive botlanes since if they try to dive your adc, your counter burst is probably higher than any botlane combo pre-6. /shittyopinion
Maybe something like 9/0/21, taking ignite mastery + CDR in offense. Run ignite/flash.
Mpen marks, armor yellows, scaling AP blues and AP quints. You shouldn't be getting hit by anything but this could change if they had an aggressive jungler or support with hard CC. Maybe mpen reds, armor yellows, MR blues and HP quints for a safe lane.
Start with 2 pinks/2 greens + mana potions. Probably want to get sightstone first as you are squishy, then a CDR item. Building AP might help, so Kage's I guess.
I'd imagine it would do excellently vs burst lanes, melee supports and junglers with no gapclosers (lol).
Shit, if I was running LB support I'd just start Dorans + 1 green ward. Make sure to get explorer ward as well so you have "2" wards (lol). (or say fk it yoloqueue and don't go utility) You should be able to all-in fairly easily at level 2 because the damage you can do alone is very strong, especially with the silence.
Definitely get sightstone first. Then it depends, usually morellos is a great item that has a nice buildup if you're getting multiple kills. Otherwise grab a kages and keep buying pinks/oracles. Can always go for a majei's too since LB is very hard to kill if played properly. Even as support you should be able to stack it up nicely.
Played against a brand tonight using the korean build (Max W and rush athenes), it seemed like he could stun me through my W? Like I W towards him and he threw a Q and it always seemed to hit me.
I've been playing LeBlanc recently and I'm confused about what her actual role in a teamfight is. I tend to stand in the back lines and try to burst down someone in the front lines but that seems like a waste, especially if the front line is all tanks. Her ability to actually snipe ADCs is quite limited when you have hard CC on the enemy team (which is all the time). I tried playing her as a sort of split pusher where I would abuse my hover board to clear minion waves but it seems like I'd be a lot more valuable actually contributing to the fight. So what exactly am I supposed to be doing? Maybe some sort of guerrilla warfare where I distract the enemy and disorganize their team? Please give me your insights.
Distract and disorganize seems to be the name of the game. Wait in bushes for supports to ward, use that mobility to approach battle from weird angles to get the ADC easily. In some of this seasons LCS games you can see how pro's made her both work and fail.
I know this thread is super old but I wanted to get some thoughts on what some of the generally accepted Leblanc builds are at the moment. I've been told it's not ideal, however I've been having very good results with Luden's rush (almost always solokill my lane opponent). I see a lot of people go Morello's first but my experience with LB thus far haven't found myself running into mana problems and haven't valued CDR a great deal on her. That said, I'm still new to the champ so I'm open to suggestions how to play her more optimally.
Does she even work in this tank meta? I rarely see her and when she's picked even a semi-coordinated team shits on her. She gets her like initial 7-8 kills and thats it. You can practically ignore her after 30 min with well positioned adc.