EPT[Champion] Trundle - Page 13
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On February 20 2013 05:33 Sufficiency wrote: His Q is bugged? In what way? Apparenty it doesn't apply the bonus damage to champs, just an autoreset and nothing more. So that's why my trundle top felt like it wasn't doing anything in fights despite having a ton of items and being pretty far ahead. | ||
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Aldrovandi
United States211 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Aldrovandi
United States211 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
I'm actually not sure how long it took to find the bug. I'd think it would have been found 1/2 days after the last patch but they didn't make changes to troll. | ||
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Haasts
New Zealand4445 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18736819 | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
1. 0.1 second slow on his bite 2. animation on his bite improves with attack speed 3. % health drain instead of flat on his ult, making it better against tanks. 4. Tenacity removed on his w, but he gets 20% more attack speed when its maxed. Also slightly better healing while in it. I feel like points #3 and 4 might be part of it. If you use a BotRK active/ult a tank, you start healing for fairly monstrous amounts of health. If you have a spirit visage, it only makes it more ridiculous. Then you combine that with his pillar (which was always strong), and he just feels a lot more beefy. The extra attack speed on him w makes him better at straight up brawling later too (at the cost of tenacity). The q slow seems to make a surprisingly large difference early too. Especially when you have red buff, it's so much easier to chase someone now. | ||
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Aldrovandi
United States211 Posts
I have not built a BotRK on him yet just because I'm still playing him broke jungler/max cdr style. I could definitely see it being obnoxious on top lane Trundle, the new ult does serious work if you drop it on a J4 type as he dives in and the BotRK would let you actually kill important people instead of just running them out of the fight. I also found that he can really safely clear the jungle with 4-5-21 masteries, which lets you start with 10% cdr and more easily itemize up to 40%. However, losing all the defensive tree masteries and no tenacity on w makes you feel really fragile. Might just be a thing to do in 5s where you have a designated role as anti-initiating pillar-bot. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
I eventually grab Spirit Visage and Randuin's, but the BotRK rush is extremely effective whenever you're against Nasus/Zac/Sejuani/Rammus/Hecarim/Jarvan etc., especially if they're their team's primary initiation. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pu0w8AY.jpg) Trundle, The Troll King Reasons you should play reworked Trundle: Riot fixed a lot of the counterintuitive parts of old Trundle's kit. He's fairly resilient in top lane against a wide variety of champions (think Renekton level resilient- although its more difficult to translate success in lane into wins as Trundle). He can absolutely crush champions that build tanky in teamfights. His ganks are terrifying if executed well. Plus he's got some pretty awesome dialogue and animations now (I'm going to crush your dreams! They're in your skull, right?). Patch Notes: + Show Spoiler + V3.8 Changes to Slow Zones All slow zones now update on a quarter-second interval, meaning when you move out of a slow field, the slow will wear off almost immediately unless you're hit by an ability that applies an individual slow (like Kog'Maw's Void Ooze). What this means: your champion's movement speed will be restored more quickly when leaving a slow field, but the slow within the fields have not been changed. The following abilities have had their slow refresh rate reduced to 0.25 seconds: Trundle's Pillar of Ice V3.6: Rework Decompose Renamed King's Tribute Rabid Bite Renamed Chomp Damage adjusted to 20 / 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 (+100 / 105 / 110 / 115 / 120% attack damage) from 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 / 90 (+80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120% attack damage). Now slows target by 75% for 0.1 seconds on hit. Animation speed scales with Trundle's attack speed. Contaminate Renamed Frozen Domain Attack speed bonus increased to 20 / 35 / 50 / 65 / 80% from 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60%. Now grants 8 / 11 / 14 / 17 / 20% increased healing to Trundle. No longer grants tenacity. Pillar of Filth Renamed Pillar of Ice Now interrupts channels. Duration reduced to 6 seconds from 6.5. Agony Renamed Subjugate Initial damage and drain over time changed to 10 / 11 / 12 (+1 per 100 AP)% max health damage from 100 / 175 / 250 (+60% AP). Initial armor and magic resist steal and drain over time adjusted to 20% from 15 / 20 / 25%. Abilities:+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cvLZDNP.jpg) King’s Tribute: Innate- (range 1000) Whenever an enemy unit near Trundle dies, he absorbs its life force and heals for 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6% of its maximum health (increases by 1% at level 5, 9, 12, 15). Notes: In my opinion, this ability is what makes Trundle a troll. It makes him extremely difficult to push out of lane, because even if you can’t last hit, you can usually regain health from dying creeps. It also serves as good sustain in the jungle. Synergizes with Frozen Domain and Subjugate quite well. Other things to keep in mind: if dragon, baron, or a champion dies, you regain health from that too. This can create situations where you get obscene amounts of health back, especially if you have a spirit visage. Beware of ignite though. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HeTUuMx.jpg) Chomp: Active- Trundle bites his target with this next basic attack, dealing physical damage equal to a base amount plus a percentage of his attack damage and slowing his target by 75% for 0.1 seconds. This attack increases Trundle's attack damage for 8 seconds, with his opponent losing half of this amount for the same duration. Physical Damage: 20 / 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 (+ 100 / 105 / 110 / 115 / 120% AD) Attack Damage Bonus: 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 Cooldown: 4 seconds Cost: 30 mana Notes: Trundle’s main damage ability. It can be used as an auto attack reset. One of the nicer things about the Trundle rework is that the bite speed now scales with attack speed. Your damage also gets buffed quite a bit while debuffing your opponent half that amount. This makes very strong in dueling situations against AD champions. Additionally, it gained an extremely strong (but short) slow with the rework. This makes securing kills a bit easier. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dcQnQaX.jpg) Frozen Domain: Active- Trundle coats a target 1000-radius area with ice for 8 seconds, gaining increased movement speed, attack speed, and healing and regeneration from all sources while he is on it. Movement Speed: 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40% Attack Speed: 20 / 35 / 50 / 65 / 80% Healing and Regeneration Increase: 8 / 11 / 14 / 17 / 20% Cooldown: 15 seconds Cost: 60 mana Range: 900 Notes: This ability got changed a lot with the rework. The movement speed increase is identical. The attack speed bonus was increased by 20% at level 5 (5% per level), and the crowd control reduction was removed in favor of increased healing. The crowd control reduction loss hurts to a degree, but the extra attack speed and healing help a lot too. Use this whenever you expect to brawl with someone for a prolong period of time, or you want to catch someone. If you’re low on health in lane, one trick is to use your health pots and frozen domain, while killing as many creeps as possible. If you’re low on health in the jungle, try to make sure this up when you kill the big creep at the camp (most important on the first clear) and you’re chugging a potion. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/emYc84E.jpg) Pillar of Ice: Active- Trundle summons an impassable pillar of ice at a target location for 6 seconds. Enemies caught in the center of the eruption are briefly knocked back. The pillar blocks movement within 62.5 range, slows enemies within 187.5 range, and provides vision within 600 range. Range: 1000 Pillar Slow: 25/30/35/40/45% Cooldown: 23/20/17/14/11 Cost: 60 mana Notes: You trap enemies with this and slow them a great deal, then whack them over the head with your club repeatedly. This ability makes it extremely difficult to get away from Trundle (especially a Trundle with cooldown reduction). The most powerful part of his kit by far. It also is one of the better disengages in the game (only Janna’s comes to mind as being better). If the enemy doesn’t have a blink, a flash, or some way to cc you, they’re probably not getting away unless their team bails them out. Also they made one massive change to this ability: it interrupts channeling. What this means on a practical level: Katarina ulting? Pillar directly on her, her ult is over. Enemy recalling? Cast pillar directly on them, they’re no longer recalling. You know an enemy Fiddlesticks is channeling his ult and you’re nearby? Time to interrupt that too (pillar’s range is longer by 200)! Note: you actually have to cast it directly on an enemy so they’re physically displaced, so if you’re guessing where they are, this can be somewhat dicey. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oIsXK3L.jpg) Subjugate: Active:- Trundle drains the life force out of an enemy champion, dealing magic damage equal to a percentage of their maximum health and healing himself for the same amount, as well as stealing 40% of their armor and magic resist. Half of the health, armor, and magic resist is drained immediately and the other half over the next 4 seconds. Intial % Health Stolen: 10/12/14% (+0.01% per AP) Total Magic Damage: 20/24/28% (+0.02% per AP) Cooldown: 80/70/60 seconds Cost: 75 mana Range: 700 Notes: Steals a % of their health, armor, and magic resist. You gain the armor and magic resist stolen. The cooldown on this is pretty low, so if you’re low in lane, feel free to use it even if there isn’t any kill potential and you just need some extra sustain (but be careful to avoid subsequent all ins)- at least early on. This ability crushes tanky initiators if used properly. Some tanky initiator runs in? Use your ult, then pillar of ice so he either can’t get out or his team can’t get in (or both!), and now you have a 5v4 and you’re super tanky for 8 seconds. With 40% CDR, this comes back in 36 seconds. It’s kind of ridiculous. Summoner Skills: ignite, ghost (top) or exhaust, ghost (jungle) Pillar is such a good disengage, you should never really need flash. Trundle’s not particularly bursty either, so there’s not much point in running flash. You could use exhaust or heal on Trundle top, but I don’t recommend it. Masteries: 9/21/0 for both jungle and top Jungle masteries: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9rAjOZA.jpg) Only difference if its top Trundle is you put 3 points into unyielding/block instead of tough skin/summoner’s resolve. Maybe safeguard if you want to turret dive a ton instead of block. Runes: Marks: Attack speed Seals: Armor Gylphs: Magic resist/level (or flat) Quints: Movement speed Since his bite scales with attack speed and gives a substantial boost to his AD, there’s really no reason to not run attack speed now. Standard durability seals/glyphs, movement speed so you can get in range to pillar and then follow it up. Skill order: QEQWQR, R>Q>E>W If you want to be a more supporty/gank oriented jungle Trundle you can max E over Q. I wouldn’t do that though, his Q has a slow now (although it is short), so it is quite good for pursuing chases over short distances provided you catch up with your target after your initial pillar. That being said, don’t feel terrible about putting in a few extra points in E before maxing Q completely- 3 seconds off the cooldown for every level is huge. Item build: Top Trundle: BotRK/merc treads/frozen heart/spirit visage/randuin’s omen/bulwark Jungle Trundle: madred’s/BotRK/merc treads/locket/randuin’s/spirit visage (note: you can go doran's blade start as Trundle, but currently I don't recommend it- his clear speed is pretty auto reliant so madred's is pretty important) You want to aim for 40% cdr while being tanky, with a BotRK so your damage is relevant. The one thing I dislike about Trundle jungle is that it is difficult to get a BotRK, be tanky, and have the CDR with the amount of farm you typically get from the jungle. Other items that are good in certain situations: frozen mallet (against poke comps, easier to lock them up- if you hit 40% cdr and have a mallet, you can absolutely crush a poke comp), hydra (I wouldn’t default to it or even get it that often, but there are certain situations where you need to be able to push harder) Icebourne gauntlet can also be quite nice in the right circumstances. Playstyle: Top lane: There are few matchups Trundle straight up loses due to his high sustain. Typically you have to sit and absorb abuse early, while occasionally auto->q->autoing the enemy laner. Short trades usually favor you (exceptions: Vlad/Renekton), as Trundle’s sustain is quite high. At some point (usually level 6-8 or so), the damage buff and debuff from your q becomes quite substantial, which gives you kill potential coupled with subjugate and cutlass/BotRK active. Once you know you can win a fight and commit, it's really hard to escape from Trundle. This usually takes people by surprise, because you have to play fairly passive early barring a huge mistake by your opponent and they’re not good at judging Trundle’s actual strength. Then suddenly they’re stuck on a pillar and can’t get away. I think it is worth noting Trundle does extremely well in 1v1 matchups against ranged AD’s, with the possible exception of Vayne (she will require some help from your jungler- Quinn is sort of annoying too, but much more doable). He can just shrug off most damage until level 6, and once he corners an AD, they can’t do anything at all. People seem to think a ranged AD counters Trundle top, and in my experience, that’s not the case at all. I suspect he can also do relatively well in 1v2’s (he last hits under tower extremely well due to the low cd on his q, and the extra damage it gives and his sustain helps him when it is most difficult), but haven’t had many chances to experiment. The most difficult part of Trundle top is transitioning from the laning phase into a tanky beast in teamfights. It’s fairly easy to reach a point where you can win almost any 1v1, but Trundle’s pushing power is slow because he has no AOE damage. As other top laners, I’d just push the wave and apply pressure that way, but teams can group up relatively early and it can be difficult to punish this by taking towers. This can create a situation where you are almost obligated to teamfight, but aren’t really tanky yet. I feel like this is Trundle’s weakest point. If you can get past this and get one big CDR item (Frozen Heart or Spirit Visage), you’re usually in the clear. Try to catch an isolated opponent to prevent this from happening. Pillars in particular are good at forcing unfair fights in the jungle. Jungle: Pillars make Trundle king, if they don’t have a blink, they’ll probably have to flash to get away. Ganking as Trundle is pretty straight forward: use w to get in range (if necessary- otherwise save it for when you’re autoing them), pillar to trap the enemy, then chomp and autoattack them until they’re dead. Teamfighting: In general, your role in teamfights is to be a disruptive force that controls space. You do this with pillars, subjugating one of their tanks, and smacking their squishies in the face with your club so they feel so threatened they can’t think about anything except the troll in their face trying to bash their skull in. A lot of tanky initiators seriously overestimate how quickly their team can follow up, so you subjugate them and trap them with pillar (or pillar further back so their team can’t advance quickly), and your team can blow them up almost instantly. Typically you want to slow down anyone running toward your squishes by chomping them (and kill them outright as described above if possible- always try to use subjugate on the enemy tank), but the bulk of your time should be spent in the face of the enemy ADC or AP carry, threatening to kill them if they don’t run. This buys time for your team to focus their attention on any threats that are ignoring you, and make short work of them. Once you chase their ADC or AP carry away (or kill them), you can turn back around and pillar and chomp whoever is running after your squishes (if those threats haven’t been neutralized yet), reuniting yourself with your team and most likely killing the enemy front line. Takeaway: Trundle’s a threat to squishes and tanks a like, and you have to decide whether peeling/isolating targets or diving is appropriate depending on the situation (the optimal choice often flip flops even in a single team fight). | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On August 09 2013 08:32 zer0das wrote: If you ever play Trundle jungle, please do not go Spirit of the Ancient Golem first. Most junglers have a means to clear creeps other than their autos. Trundle however, only has his autos and an auto reset on his q. If you go Spirit of the Ancient Golem, you're only clearing camps as fast as that, and its hideously slow and is the absolutely fastest way to becoming completely irrelevant. Even if you're ganking 24/7, you probably cannot get away with it because your damage output isn't enough to be a threat. I've seen high elo Lee Sins (yesterday it was Chaox) get full tank builds: aegis + ancient golem. They do very little damage and eventually I start to question why they didn't pick a tankier champion. Lee sin has his shield, and is very manueverable, but not every champion is stronger if you just build tankiness on them. Some really feel useless. Or maybe you're supposed to feel useless as a tank. There are so many high elo players that build ancient golem and aegis on everyone that I start to doubt myself. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Also, Trundle is absolutely ridiculous if you start boots. It is a little cheesy b/c you won't clear too well if you fail your lvl 3 gank, but your level 3 gank is amazing. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4692 Posts
PS. You are taking away my free LP, by making people aware of Trundle. Please stop! | ||
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Aldrovandi
United States211 Posts
There's probably an extra effect from new Trundle being incredibly generic in visual and sound design (bitter? Me? Never.) but can't do much about that. | ||
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