EPT[Champion] Twisted Fate - Page 7
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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Happy Frog
Australia490 Posts
Have optimal AD builds changed much? Is SotD really worth getting? Do I do a standard BF > Zeal > LW kind of build, or a Triforce Corki / Ez style build? | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
On June 22 2011 13:04 goldenkrnboi wrote: lul. according to patch notes, hourglass is gonna interrupt tf's ult now. goodbye perfect escape~~ Any word on whether this will affect stealthers like twitch too? I'd really wanted to try hourglass on AD twitch with his q. Near perfect escape. | ||
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
On November 28 2011 08:10 Happy Frog wrote: I realise AP TF is optimal these days, but I've been playing around with AD and finding it hard to itemise. Have optimal AD builds changed much? Is SotD really worth getting? Do I do a standard BF > Zeal > LW kind of build, or a Triforce Corki / Ez style build? Is this true? I usually build him straight AD. IE -> Blood Thirster with an Avarice Blade thrown in... I thought the scaling on his AD was higher than his AP... Correct me if I'm wrong on this one. | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
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Cytokinesis
Canada330 Posts
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On November 29 2011 03:46 Terranasaur wrote: So what do you build on him? Straight AP like Deathcap or more of a Jax type hybrid deal? I can see Rageblade being a useful item for TF. Rageblade is not good for him. At all. He does not need the attackspeed and while Rageblade is an insanely costefficient item, it's not for TF. Depending on how you play him, you can either go Boots 3 Pots, 2-3 Doran, straight Deathcap into Lichbane, or throw a Sheen in before you get the NLR for the Deathcap. Personally, I prefer the first option. Runes would be MPen red, AP/lvl yellow, AP/lvl blue, MS or AP Quint. Dyrus just released a guide on him. | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On November 28 2011 08:10 Happy Frog wrote: I realise AP TF is optimal these days, but I've been playing around with AD and finding it hard to itemise. Have optimal AD builds changed much? Is SotD really worth getting? Do I do a standard BF > Zeal > LW kind of build, or a Triforce Corki / Ez style build? I've been playing a load of TF recently and I'm going.. Avarice Blade > Zealx2 > TrinityForce > PD > IE > PD. run crit chance reds and Gold/10 quints. Pretty erm.. interesting build, I tried it out first as sort of just joking around but with gold/10 masteries and tele, you can afk farm really well. Just use tele(or your imba mvtspd) to get to a lane, push it until you think you're about to get ganked, destiny into another lane, etc. It's really the only way I've found ADTF to be successful. Outfarm everyone. Once you get your "core" of Trinity/PD/BFsword, you can do massive damage in the space of a goldcard and you can outrun most champions. (if you juke the 1st blink, you can even outrun kassadin) | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On November 29 2011 04:45 Xenocide_Knight wrote: I've been playing a load of TF recently and I'm going.. Avarice Blade > Zealx2 > TrinityForce > PD > IE > PD. run crit chance reds and Gold/10 quints. Pretty erm.. interesting build, I tried it out first as sort of just joking around but with gold/10 masteries and tele, you can afk farm really well. Just use tele(or your imba mvtspd) to get to a lane, push it until you think you're about to get ganked, destiny into another lane, etc. It's really the only way I've found ADTF to be successful. Outfarm everyone. Once you get your "core" of Trinity/PD/BFsword, you can do massive damage in the space of a goldcard and you can outrun most champions. (if you juke the 1st blink, you can even outrun kassadin) Where do you lane and how do you get any farming done considering literally every laner in this game poops on you (you being AD TF not itemizing for ANY survivability)? | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
On November 29 2011 04:45 Xenocide_Knight wrote: I've been playing a load of TF recently and I'm going.. Avarice Blade > Zealx2 > TrinityForce > PD > IE > PD. run crit chance reds and Gold/10 quints. Pretty erm.. interesting build, I tried it out first as sort of just joking around but with gold/10 masteries and tele, you can afk farm really well. Just use tele(or your imba mvtspd) to get to a lane, push it until you think you're about to get ganked, destiny into another lane, etc. It's really the only way I've found ADTF to be successful. Outfarm everyone. Once you get your "core" of Trinity/PD/BFsword, you can do massive damage in the space of a goldcard and you can outrun most champions. (if you juke the 1st blink, you can even outrun kassadin) Why this is bad: Avarice Blade is a crappy item, and you don't even build it into Ghostblade. If you buy sheen or boots2 or pretty much anything that helps you fight or survive you will make up for the farm from Avarice Blade and also have something useful. Crit is a bad stat early in general, but especially on TF that doesn't have damage. Tryhardity Force is ok, but you're getting it after 3k gold of crap. Moving fast is not that important and you will do 0 damage in fights until then. You don't even get IE next. Trinity Force PD gives you a whopping... 120ish AD, +160 damage every fourth attack +180 right after you cast a spell +120 from the occasional crit. That sounds like a lot until you realize that IE PD is cheaper and hits for far more damage on average. The next issue is the hideous diminishing returns on your movespeed, meaning a large portion of the value of the items is wasted. Furthermore you have no survivability, which is just asking for it considering TF's crappy range. If the enemy team has anyone with a stun, root, snare, long ranged powerful slow (slows chump speed btw), or even something like master yi with cleanse or qss, you are going to get chewed up faster than a fresh grilled hot dog on frat party night. Also you aren't at all specced for laning. Magic pen quints good, gp10 not good enough to make up for 0 cs in lane. You don't want to be stuck with support level farm. Run movespeed quints imo to make up for tf's crappy range. Other good choices are hp5, armor, and attack speed. The fundamental problem with your build is a matter of synergy. DPS stats are multiplicative, which is to say that each point of AD makes each point of attackspeed, crit chance, and crit damage more valuable and vice versa. The secondary problem is not playing to TF's strengths. If you want someone to autoattack dudes a lot, pick trist or kog or cait or ashe or pretty much anyone else with a ranged attack and a steroid. TF's advantages are high mobility, a low cd single target stun, and free cdr? This basically screams "split push and win 1v1s". Either stick to "standard" AD items (BT PD something so you don't explode) or go for a weird hybrid build (Triforce Gunblade Rageblade maybe?) or stack onhit effects (Wits End SotD Bloodrazor - not all of those though) or build a sort of tanky utility (Triforce Randuins etc) | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
On November 29 2011 06:31 Brees wrote: tf is not meant to sit there and auto-attack anyway he's a kiting character. That's why you build him AP. I play him a lot in solo q might make a guide later I think you should make that guide. I really like playing TF, I think he is a lot of fun and has one of the best taunts in the game. I'm just lost as to how to build him properly, but I've seen him in games where he just hits like a truck. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On November 29 2011 06:41 Terranasaur wrote: I think you should make that guide. I really like playing TF, I think he is a lot of fun and has one of the best taunts in the game. I'm just lost as to how to build him properly, but I've seen him in games where he just hits like a truck. build is really simple i can just type that here. its his playstyle thats difficult open boots + 3 pots 21-9-0 masteries (vet scars against bursters, hp regen against pokers) get 2 d rings when possible then sorc boots if you need the mobility in lane or if its just a push war then rush for deathcap. get the other after. After this you want lich bane then either hourglass or void staff depending on game. get other one. thats pretty much it | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On November 29 2011 06:14 Tooplark wrote: + Show Spoiler + Why this is bad: Avarice Blade is a crappy item, and you don't even build it into Ghostblade. If you buy sheen or boots2 or pretty much anything that helps you fight or survive you will make up for the farm from Avarice Blade and also have something useful. Crit is a bad stat early in general, but especially on TF that doesn't have damage. Tryhardity Force is ok, but you're getting it after 3k gold of crap. Moving fast is not that important and you will do 0 damage in fights until then. You don't even get IE next. Trinity Force PD gives you a whopping... 120ish AD, +160 damage every fourth attack +180 right after you cast a spell +120 from the occasional crit. That sounds like a lot until you realize that IE PD is cheaper and hits for far more damage on average. The next issue is the hideous diminishing returns on your movespeed, meaning a large portion of the value of the items is wasted. Furthermore you have no survivability, which is just asking for it considering TF's crappy range. If the enemy team has anyone with a stun, root, snare, long ranged powerful slow (slows chump speed btw), or even something like master yi with cleanse or qss, you are going to get chewed up faster than a fresh grilled hot dog on frat party night. Also you aren't at all specced for laning. Magic pen quints good, gp10 not good enough to make up for 0 cs in lane. You don't want to be stuck with support level farm. Run movespeed quints imo to make up for tf's crappy range. Other good choices are hp5, armor, and attack speed. The fundamental problem with your build is a matter of synergy. DPS stats are multiplicative, which is to say that each point of AD makes each point of attackspeed, crit chance, and crit damage more valuable and vice versa. The secondary problem is not playing to TF's strengths. If you want someone to autoattack dudes a lot, pick trist or kog or cait or ashe or pretty much anyone else with a ranged attack and a steroid. TF's advantages are high mobility, a low cd single target stun, and free cdr? This basically screams "split push and win 1v1s". Either stick to "standard" AD items (BT PD something so you don't explode) or go for a weird hybrid build (Triforce Gunblade Rageblade maybe?) or stack onhit effects (Wits End SotD Bloodrazor - not all of those though) or build a sort of tanky utility (Triforce Randuins etc) Whoa, I never said my item build was any good or optimal in anyway, I just said it's the only time I've ever succeeded with AD TF It started out as a not-serious build anyway, but I just thought it was funny. Against people in my ELO anyway 1300's/1400's, the element of surprise has won several games. I only get the trinforce early so I can get the mvtspd. I've had several singed refuse to accept that they were being out run by me and kited around in circles while my team wins the 4v4 (since singed was actually useful while I basically did nothing in teamfights). Or just last night, Akali came to stop me split pushing, couldn't catch me, team won the fight at baron. The crit chance runes are pretty bad, but it does lead to some great/random comebacks in the lane if you get multiple crits. I find that TF bot generally loses lanes anyway, might as well let lady luck decide. Last hitting isn't SO bad with carefully placed, max range wildcards while spamming blue cards whenever you can. Also, once you get Trinity/PD, you can actually 1v1 people pretty well. Yi runs at you, alphas, you gold card and see how many crits you get. Then just kite for a few seconds and repeat. You can generally outrun most people at that point (iirc like 456 mvt spd?). Never teamfight, always splitpush. Mid game, your damage is negligible so pushing is your only use to the team. 1v1, even hard CC can't take you down. Unless they can kill you with 1 combo, something like.. Sion flashes in, uses full combo, you ALMOST die, flash back, stun, run. Once sion stops chasing, hide in a bush, turn, and keep pushing. This time he doesn't have flash and you have much more mvt speed so just repeat. Eventually, another enemy will come or a 4v4 teamfight will engage. I mean, you're a goddamn gambler, I think it fits the theme. There was a game a few nights ago where enemy kassadin would constantly try to kill me; his combo would bring me to like 30% hp. I would then stun him and either 1. I get enough crits and he just dies 2. I get average amounts of crits and then its a race to see if I can kill him before his cds are up 3. I get few crits and I start running like hell. Laning phase is tricky and the build relies completely on your ability to farm. Under no circumstance will I claim that this build is optimal or the best. I just really like it. Going a more standard BFitem rush generally leaves you wondering why you're playing TF as an AD carry. EDIT: Oh, the reason I go for crit items is because I find it's the only way to make TF an auto attack character. You need to completely wreck someone within the space of one gold card or you'll get rocked. The only way I've managed to do that is by going crit and getting lucky with 3-4 crits in a row. Per gold, assuming you crit every hit, Trinforce/zeal/cloak beats out any other combination I could think of. In terms of auto attacks. There are probably more optimal ways of maximizing auto attack dmg in a 3 second window but... Trinforce, zeal, and zerks are all gold colored. I really liked that. | ||
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Cytokinesis
Canada330 Posts
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Haasts
New Zealand4445 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
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Ferocious Falcon
Australia16 Posts
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Bwaaaa
Australia969 Posts
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