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LotV Community Feedback Update - October 22

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
170 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 18:19:29
October 22 2015 17:57 GMT
#1
[image loading]


Hey everyone – we’re back with another community feedback update. We’ve got a number of different units to discuss this week, as well as some recent considerations around Automated Tournaments.

Lurker timing
We agree this is an issue in PvZ, and are currently looking at increasing the build time on the Lurker Den. However, we don’t want to go too heavy with this nerf because our upcoming Adept buff naturally means that Zerg teching will be slowed down a bit as well. We are aiming to get a change in for this for tomorrow’s balance update.

Liberator
Like many of you pointed out, the Liberator comes out fairly early, and its large range can be a bit problematic on certain maps. We wonder if there’s some potential fun we can have with Liberators early on that don’t have such a high range. We’ve been playtesting a version of the Liberator where the cast range of the ability is very short, but a research isn’t required to be able to transform. In addition, we’ve added a range upgrade to this ability with a Fusion Core requirement so that the high range only comes into play in the late game.

The general idea here is that Liberators could immediately have a lot of interaction, but also be counterable due to the much lower range. Opponents playing against Liberators will need to react and scout accordingly to Terran players that upgrade into the long range once they have a Fusion Core.

Carrier
We agree with your feedback in that even after the build time reduction, Carriers with the Release Interceptor ability are most likely too strong for cost in head-on engagements. We’ve been trying various changes, and we wonder if just a straight up Carrier health nerf is a decent way to go. This allows Carriers to retain the powerful moments with their new ability, but also allows the counters to Carriers to be stronger as well.

The goal for the Carrier is to not nerf the unit too much, as we would like them to be much stronger units in LotV than they were in HotS. But if further nerfs are needed in addition to what we’re doing in tomorrow’s balance update, we can definitely tune it down more in the future.

Siege Tank Medivac drop
As we often point out, it’s not as helpful for us when you give extreme feedback such as “this will never work no matter what, and it has to be completely removed from the game.” I’m sure many of you out there have seen plenty of times throughout this beta process that issues are rarely this extreme.

It’s pretty easy to just do a complete removal of this interaction, and we definitely can if we know for certain that it can’t ever work. Until that point, we want to fully explore various numbers before deciding to give up on a change especially if the potential for it looks good. We’re not saying we disagree with the feedback that it can’t ever work as we definitely saw some examples where the interaction felt like too much (especially in TvT games), but we want to fully explore the idea and make sure we’re not losing something that can be awesome just because of overreacting too quickly.

With that said, we’d like to continue testing the pick-up and drop micro of Siege Tanks in Siege mode. As a last resort we definitely have the option of doing either a complete removal or using the suggestion of picking-up to save Siege Mode tanks, but we want to test out tuning changes before making this call. Currently we’re looking at longer delay values when a Siege Tank in Siege mode is dropped before they can attack.

Adept

Like we talked about last week, we are looking to give +10 shields back to the Adept. We believe going with this nerf and the Warp-in nerfs at the same time was too much of a nerf overall, not because the Adept isn’t a useful unit right now, but mostly because we’d like to push the strength of new units for the release of LotV in order to see new strategies and interactions come up with the new game. We’d like to test out reverting this nerf and see where the Adept stands in strength, now that the Adept Warp-ins aren’t as difficult to deal with due to the Warp-in changes.

Photon Overcharge

We agree with your feedback in that Photon Overcharge may be a bit too spammable right now. Currently however, we’re adjusting multiple things that affect Protoss such as the Lurker timing issue and the early game Adept strength issue. What we’re currently thinking is - if after tomorrow’s patch, both of these things are in a better spot, we can potentially explore increasing Photon Overcharge to 50 energy so that the ability has to be used more strategically and with good positioning. Please give us your thoughts in this area so that we can explore all options before making the right call.

The goal of Photon Overcharge is to allow Protoss players to control specific locations in a powerful, defensive way so that Protoss can keep up with expansions. We believe this is important because of the resource changes, but we do agree that its current raw strength and spammable nature might be an issue.

Nydus Worm
We hear your feedback that the Nydus Worm all-ins can seem nearly unstoppable. At the same time, we haven’t actually seen this strategy in used often enough to make conclusive decisions. We’re not saying we disagree with your feedback, but rather that we want to be careful with nerfs that could be premature overreactions. Our current plan for the Nydus Worm is to watch closely, and if they to turn out to be too strong, we can tune the delay before the units can unload after a Nydus Worm finishes constructing so that players can counter the strategy when they have enough units in position . We believe this sort of change is better than doing a full revert to HotS. Before LoTV, all it really took is pulling workers to kill the Nydus Worm before they can finish constructing. As compared to with the proposed change, depending on how we tune the numbers, having enough units to quickly focus fire down the Nydus will create more interesting moments.

Automated Tournament schedule
We heard your feedback and saw your suggestions regarding automated tournament schedules. The solutions to a majority of your feedback can be answered with the quality of match making. The reason tournaments are currently held every 3 hours in the beta, and the reason why we don’t just start a tournament when the first 8 or 16 players sign up, is because we want automated tournaments to be a competitive experience no matter what skill level you are playing at. For example, if we were to go with the somewhat popular suggestion of having tournaments up all the time, and we just initiate tournaments every time we have enough players, the skill of players in that tournament will potentially range from Bronze to Grand Master.

Also, due to the low population of the beta, we’re clearly seeing that the match making quality per tournament is not good right now. Of course the match making quality will be better at the launch of LotV, but we do want to start off more conservative, since making tournaments more frequent in the future is much easier than reducing the frequency. We are also exploring ways to have more frequent tournaments at specific times, such as when we expect influxes of players to automated tournaments at the beginning of a new ladder season.

We don’t have set plans on where we’ll land regarding the amount and frequency of tournaments in LotV, so we wanted to relay our current thoughts to you guys so that you can understand our position and also share your thoughts.

Thank you for continuing to iterate your ideas and suggestions throughout the beta, and we hope you enjoy the upcoming changes!

Source
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Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
October 22 2015 18:04 GMT
#2
I find it pretty unfortunate that Blizzard has put more effort into testing siege tank drops than they did into testing different economy models. But that ship has long sailed.
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States14003 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 18:09:00
October 22 2015 18:08 GMT
#3
Still don't get the adept buff...
Engage, Zero target Engage, Engage, Kagari target Engage, Engage.
bObA
Profile Joined May 2012
France300 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 18:11:24
October 22 2015 18:09 GMT
#4
On October 23 2015 03:08 Cricketer12 wrote:
Still don't get the adept buff...


Me too

I think they have to make some changes with carriers cause way too powerful,
and nydus worm because that's completely insane not to be able to stop that when it arrives in your base
Regarding siege tanks in TvT especially, but I do like this siege tanks drops so I dunno what they could do to fix that.
Thomasmarkle
Profile Joined June 2011
United States85 Posts
October 22 2015 18:11 GMT
#5
you know... I know a lot of people complain about how the balance process has been going throughout the beta, but it is awesome that they at least have been letting us know what their thought process is on a lot of the issues. Sure they may not address them immediately, but the fact that they are taking initiative in reading everything players are talking about is a huge step in the right direction for every one. Bravo!
Wrath
Profile Blog Joined July 2014
3175 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 18:12:55
October 22 2015 18:12 GMT
#6
OP... center the image...

^[center^]...^[/center^] (remove the '^' and replace the '...' with the image link)
purakushi
Profile Joined August 2012
United States3304 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 18:13:25
October 22 2015 18:12 GMT
#7
nydus worm:

-remove invincibility
-when placed on creep, costs less and no global sound
-when placed off creep, costs more and has global sound
-balance is just numbers

please.
T P Z sagi
Timelog
Profile Joined May 2015
Netherlands57 Posts
October 22 2015 18:14 GMT
#8
On October 23 2015 03:12 purakushi wrote:
nydus worm:

-remove invincibility
-when placed on creep, costs less and no global sound
-when placed off creep, costs more and has global sound
-balance is just numbers

please.

Yeah sure, make it impossible to ever be effective again.....

No, I like there proposal. It's either that or make it un-healable. Either is enough.
Terrible Starcraft 2 player, SC2 EU Battle.Net MVP and overall gaming enthousiast.
Wrath
Profile Blog Joined July 2014
3175 Posts
October 22 2015 18:16 GMT
#9
I can't load battle.net at all. Are you guys having the same issue?
purakushi
Profile Joined August 2012
United States3304 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 18:18:15
October 22 2015 18:16 GMT
#10
On October 23 2015 03:14 Timelog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 03:12 purakushi wrote:
nydus worm:

-remove invincibility
-when placed on creep, costs less and no global sound
-when placed off creep, costs more and has global sound
-balance is just numbers

please.

Yeah sure, make it impossible to ever be effective again.....

No, I like there proposal. It's either that or make it un-healable. Either is enough.


Hence the "balance is just numbers". It could have increased armour, more morphing health, building time etc. If all else fails, invincibility, I guess. The important parts here are points 2 and 3, so nyduses see more play outside of attacks.
T P Z sagi
CannonsNCarriers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States638 Posts
October 22 2015 18:20 GMT
#11
They missed the mark with Nydus. It is plenty counterable. The problem is the 800 HP of instant transfuses it receives if 4 queens are the first thing about of the Nydus. Compare that with if roaches are the first things out, the Nydus can simply die and only 4 roaches escape.
Dun tuch my cheezbrgr
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
October 22 2015 18:21 GMT
#12
On October 23 2015 03:12 WrathSCII wrote:
OP... center the image...

^[center^]...^[/center^] (remove the '^' and replace the '...' with the image link)

I browse TL very zoomed in so it looked fine to me, but you're right I should do that

also... I KNOW HOW TO CENTER STUFF ON TL!!!! You don't get almost 20k posts and not know basic shit. Sorry, I got a little miffed over that
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23580 Posts
October 22 2015 18:23 GMT
#13
Giving the Nydus worm a lot of armor would still make the most sense to me. If you nerf the health on carriers, decreasing the building time a litte would be fine imo.


Thanks for the update!
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
BlackCompany
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany8388 Posts
October 22 2015 18:23 GMT
#14
So liberator range on fusion core will be as useful as medivac upgrade on starport techlab? Or is it viable in LotV to get the fusion core that much faster than usual to make this upgrade count?
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16102 Posts
October 22 2015 18:29 GMT
#15
DK still ignoring ultras and parasitic bomb... shouldn't be surprised.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
I wasbanned fromthis
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
113 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 18:34:28
October 22 2015 18:29 GMT
#16


Wrath
Profile Blog Joined July 2014
3175 Posts
October 22 2015 18:29 GMT
#17
On October 23 2015 03:21 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 03:12 WrathSCII wrote:
OP... center the image...

^[center^]...^[/center^] (remove the '^' and replace the '...' with the image link)

I browse TL very zoomed in so it looked fine to me, but you're right I should do that

also... I KNOW HOW TO CENTER STUFF ON TL!!!! You don't get almost 20k posts and not know basic shit. Sorry, I got a little miffed over that


I guess I'll have to apologize then

But I also got irritated that I didn't get to post this week as I'm trying to be consistent with it
pwninate
Profile Joined August 2015
23 Posts
October 22 2015 18:29 GMT
#18
The nydus is useless if it can die before deploying troops. The nydus is too strong if by the time you kill it everything is already in your base. The best nerf would be to make it spew out units at a slower rate. Maybe with a hive upgrade to make it normal speed again?

Although, maybe it just needs to be scouted properly? Denying overlord vision isn't that hard if you know they are going to nydus. Going for a fast third and dying to a nydus isn't a problem, that's just a build order loss because you didn't scout.
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 18:32:01
October 22 2015 18:29 GMT
#19
On October 23 2015 03:20 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
They missed the mark with Nydus. It is plenty counterable. The problem is the 800 HP of instant transfuses it receives if 4 queens are the first thing about of the Nydus. Compare that with if roaches are the first things out, the Nydus can simply die and only 4 roaches escape.

Uh, that's exactly what they said they'll do if they think there is a problem... "We can tune the delay before the units can unload after a Nydus Worm finishes constructing" which means less burst healing.

On October 23 2015 03:23 BlackCompany wrote:
So liberator range on fusion core will be as useful as medivac upgrade on starport techlab? Or is it viable in LotV to get the fusion core that much faster than usual to make this upgrade count?

Liberators seem strong enough (at least vs Protoss) that it's worth getting the upgrade, of course how fast it's worth getting depends on how the metagame settles once the game has been more figured out. I assume they'll still have decent range pre-upgrade so they aren't useless.
AdrianHealeyy
Profile Joined June 2015
114 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 18:32:10
October 22 2015 18:31 GMT
#20
I am ok with having an upgrade for the liberator, but at fusion core seems to far away in the techtree, which is not a good thing.

Edit: I am a zerg player.
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