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As we often point out, it’s not as helpful for us when you give extreme feedback such as “this will never work no matter what, and it has to be completely removed from the game.” I’m sure many of you out there have seen plenty of times throughout this beta process that issues are rarely this extreme.
When you completely disagree with it from a design perspective it IS helpful; unless you don't care if the players think the game is badly designed.
Being able to instantly siege anywhere on the map removes all the positional aspects of tank play (mostly in tvt because you can't afford that many medivacs outside of marine tank play)
Disliking this is completely legit and has nothing to do with "to extreme feedback".
You may be able to balance this well but I know that I will always hate flying siege tanks.
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Why not just up the Nydus Worm health to something beyond what workers can easily kill off?
With an invincible Nydus Worm I'm surprised Zergs haven't used it yet to block off ramps or something akin to a Force Field.
Just up the health enough so that 2-3 workers can't just run up to it and kill it.
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Ultras and parasitic bomb change?... nope, another week of the same shit.
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A lot of people dont think the adept is in a good position right now which is why they are taking away one of their two nerfs to the adepts
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I like invulnerable nydus because it foreces an opponent to build army. If i c that my opponent just sitting behind the wall with no army I make nydus and get easy win. I agree that current state is too OP and it will be good to make delay before units come out from nydus. But I think delay must be as short as not to let workers to kill nydus. Opponent must have an army to kill it. So another option to fix nydus is to give armor and remove invulnerability, so workers can't still kill worm but any big army can.
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Well, when Dustin Browder was in charge at least they were more preoccupied with buffing and nerfing the rocks instead of introducing, rage inducing, nonsense making, buffs/nerfs
I don't know what to say, the whole thing since beta start looks like a futile attempt to fine cut a diamond with a sledgehammer ... and there are less than 3 weeks remaining till release.
Also, still no mention of parasitic bomb ...
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The Lurker nerf is bad, it kills ZvZ and it makes ZvP a back to mass stalkers
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Is the lurker thing about the "general timing" of lurker ZvP play, or has there popped up a "timing attack" I'm not aware of?
Because in the first case I greatly disagree with lengthening the lurker den build time even more. But I guess everything fun for zerg should go to T3ish tech, so that then they wonder when it's always mass roach and "stale metagame" complaints for years.
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On October 23 2015 03:38 Thezzy wrote:
Why not just up the Nydus Worm health to something beyond what workers can easily kill off?
With an invincible Nydus Worm I'm surprised Zergs haven't used it yet to block off ramps or something akin to a Force Field.
Just up the health enough so that 2-3 workers can't just run up to it and kill it.
This. Just give it some amor or/ and health. There is no counterplay until the nydus is up, thats just plain stupid.
Yes you can move your units into position and be ready, but its just so much effort for the defender and no pressure what so ever for the aggressor, -which is weird. Ofcourse it would be great that nydus has its rightfull place in the arsenal of zerg,
but that way it just feels to be "cheap" (,that beeing said as a zerg if that matters). Whatever, we don´t have anything to say anyway.
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On October 23 2015 03:52 Big J wrote:
Is the lurker thing about the "general timing" of lurker ZvP play, or has there popped up a "timing attack" I'm not aware of?
Because in the first case I greatly disagree with lengthening the lurker den build time even more. But I guess everything fun for zerg should go to T3ish tech, so that then they wonder when it's always mass roach and "stale metagame" complaints for years.
There are rush lurkers builds but optimal builds are not out yet so they look OP
But in a macro game its terrible
Lurkers are hard to get and used, back to Roach vs Roach and blink stalkers being used in mass
If anything they could have helped Disruptors come out faster and lower their damage.
5 Disruptors hard counters Lurkers very hard
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On October 23 2015 03:52 Big J wrote:
Is the lurker thing about the "general timing" of lurker ZvP play, or has there popped up a "timing attack" I'm not aware of?
Because in the first case I greatly disagree with lengthening the lurker den build time even more. But I guess everything fun for zerg should go to T3ish tech, so that then they wonder when it's always mass roach and "stale metagame" complaints for years.
I fear this could lead right back to hots style full blink bs.
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On October 23 2015 03:45 HomeWorld wrote:
Well, when Dustin Browder was in charge at least they were more preoccupied with buffing and nerfing the rocks instead of introducing, rage inducing, nonsense making, buffs/nerfs
I don't know what to say, the whole thing since beta start looks like a futile attempt to fine cut a diamond with a sledgehammer ... and there are less than 3 weeks remaining till release.
Also, still no mention of parasitic bomb ...
Rocks > Community Update
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Making new extra rules, just makes the game overly complicated. I miss clean design from BW and WOL. Even HOTS has cleaner design:
I can already see the next patch:
+ Show Spoiler +Snipe adjusted: snipe does a^2 + b^2 amount of dmg where a is the distance *2+4 and b is the unit type value: armored 10 light 5 anything else 3.75939. This applies to everything except for psionic units where a the equation e^{i x} = \cos x + i \sin x is used instead
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I agree a lot with the update and changes. As a terran player, I am completely fine with the liberator change. It still is relative to use and powerful even with the range nerf because it can be attained in the late game.
Personally, I don't think the seige tank drop is necessary to have because it really messed up the game in TvT. I don't like to play it. However, it does help to save siege tanks from good micro. But I just wish there was a better way.
Also, I think the photon overcharge should be changed to more energy, so that it won't be spammed so much especially in the early game not so much in the late game. Protoss should have some sort of defense for their expansions, but not something that completely gives them an easy way to do it without a way to punish them.
The nydus worm being untargetable until it pops can be a little op because that fact that even when you see and are prepared to kill it, the queens are able to heal it up and pretty much means GG for the terran especially. I suggest just to make it a longer time somehow to develop the nydus worm.
Additionally, the only thing I was wanting to hear was the parasitic bomb. I truly believe that this is overpowered in the fact that it can stack meaning if you don't have the skill and micro to split your air units fast enough then all the air units die almost instantly. I hope Blizzard could give a huge green mark on the air unit that has the parasitic bomb activated on just like the ravens seeker missile that radiates red on the unit being targeted on. This would at least help distinguish when one to split easier because it is already hard itself.
Honestly, though thank you for the good updates. Good work.
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Holy fuck this is going to be a gigantic nerf to Liberators, lol! Damn ... They needed a nerf, but in the context of a nerf to Carriers and Vipers. They specifically mentioned the Carrier's problem ability--release interceptors--so lets see if they address it in the update.
No mention of parasitic bomb ... Seems if Liberator and Carrier are getting nerfed they should also tone back Zerg's incredibly good air army.
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On October 23 2015 04:07 TimeSpiral wrote:
Holy fuck this is going to be a gigantic nerf to Liberators, lol! Damn ... They needed a nerf, but in the context of a nerf to Carriers and Vipers. They specifically mentioned the Carrier's problem ability--release interceptors--so lets see if they address it in the update.
No mention of parasitic bomb ... Seems if Liberator and Carrier are getting nerfed they should also tone back Zerg's incredibly good air army.
Seems like they have created a huge problem with every air unit being near broken to combat the other near broken air units...
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Surprisingly, those all seem to be decent possible changes...the liberator one in particular i've seen people suggest on forums and that seems like a really good idea.
Uh, nydus worms....yeah...uh yeah just because people aren't abusing the fact they can get a freewin yet...doesn't mean they won't when tourneys start and people get freewins with it. Dunno how a 1 sec delay or 2 sec delay will stop queens from transfusing this thing into infinity. Me personally, i like the HOTS version because it has definitive counter-play - you see it, you can kill it. Just as it should be. Not this horse shit of "i need X amount of units here or this thing is going to fuck me."
Carriers, yep they're OP. Nerf.
Adepts...buff? No thank you...not looking forward to more of this non-sense. I still think adepts are too strong right now in the current patch with their perma stim. They basically replace zealots 100%.
WHY NO MENTION OF PARASITIC BULLSHIT BOMB. SERIOUSLY? What is their attachment to this bullshit ability being in the game? It's stackable, instant cast like the old INSTA AMAZING FUNGAL, and has absolutely no counter play in late game once there's 6+ vipers.
Please just remove parasitic bomb. I know they don't wnat "extreme feedback" but this is feedback from experience accumulated across the entire beta. Parasitic bomb is one of the most bullshit abilities i have ever seen in SC2, rivalling the archon toilet/insta fungal of old. Remove that shit.
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Surprised they feel the need to buff adepts.. already such a strong unit
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
Carrier
We agree with your feedback in that even after the build time reduction, Carriers with the Release Interceptor ability are most likely too strong for cost in head-on engagements. We’ve been trying various changes, and we wonder if just a straight up Carrier health nerf is a decent way to go.
Kidding? That's insane. It needed a power nerf in the first place - why are we fucking around with the build time?
That was never the problem. Now we'll have a ridiculous long build time forever.
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The changes are good except the lurker nerf, its pretty bad.
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EPT
