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On October 24 2015 06:43 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 06:42 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 24 2015 06:34 Cyro wrote:GIVE THE ADEPT ITS OLD STRENGTH AND MOVE IT TO TWILIGHT TECH ALREADY Just make a twilight upgrade that adds like 25 hp (not shields), 25% attack speed upgrade and adds a minor guaranteed splash component to its attack so that it can stand its ground against marine marauder medivac that has a few ghosts mixed in You want a single unit to be able to fight Marines, Marauders, Medivacs, and Ghosts. A single easily spammable, warp-it-in-wherever-you-need-it, unit. To fight four units, two of which are tier 2+, one of which costs a gas building to produce. Fight them and not lose. Even though it has one upgrade, and they have a minimum of 2. And you want it to not lose. Am I understanding you correctly? I want 60 supply of twilight-upgraded adept/zealot/stalker/sentry to not get compeltely destroyed by 40-60 supply of upgraded bio (and nerf other units like colossus appropriately)
so you just produce two colossi and amove over the T. I think everyone understands your pov now at least.
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sounds to me like they are nerfing several air units... and i like that move.
On October 23 2015 03:04 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I find it pretty unfortunate that Blizzard has put more effort into testing siege tank drops than they did into testing different economy models. But that ship has long sailed.
you need a long giant block of time and large block of resources to alter the economy model. if that block of time and block of resources is not there then the economy model underlying every other activity in the game can not change.
DK and Sigaty stated they would revisit a substantial alteration to macro mechanics after the game is released and the crunch around product release is over.
relative to all the other options i have within the RTS genre i'm satisfied with the resources Blizzard has devoted to SC2 in general and LotV in particular.
if CoH2 or AoA or C&CGens or RA3 were better options i'd be playing them.
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On October 24 2015 06:43 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 06:42 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 24 2015 06:34 Cyro wrote:GIVE THE ADEPT ITS OLD STRENGTH AND MOVE IT TO TWILIGHT TECH ALREADY Just make a twilight upgrade that adds like 25 hp (not shields), 25% attack speed upgrade and adds a minor guaranteed splash component to its attack so that it can stand its ground against marine marauder medivac that has a few ghosts mixed in You want a single unit to be able to fight Marines, Marauders, Medivacs, and Ghosts. A single easily spammable, warp-it-in-wherever-you-need-it, unit. To fight four units, two of which are tier 2+, one of which costs a gas building to produce. Fight them and not lose. Even though it has one upgrade, and they have a minimum of 2. And you want it to not lose. Am I understanding you correctly? I want 60 supply of twilight-upgraded adept/zealot/stalker/sentry to not get compeltely destroyed by 40-60 supply of upgraded bio (and nerf other units like colossus appropriately)
Please. Unless you're referring to the Medivac as part of Bio's upgrades, this claim has BS written all over it. And that's not like you, Cyro!
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On October 24 2015 02:59 TimeSpiral wrote:
Blizzard did not buff the siege tank, btw. The pick up was a response to the "point and click" death abilities given to Zerg and Protoss (bile and disruptors). Those abilities inherently nerf the tank, so the pickup is really a response to that, imo.
Which everyone agrees was a good move. Then people figured out this also allowed to turn tanks from positional units into hyper mobile harass tools, which never was the intention. The way to shut this down is obvious and elegant, but instead it's treated as an "interesting interaction" even though it both completely contradicts the tanks identity and introduces even more volatility into the game.
On October 24 2015 06:36 pure.Wasted wrote:
Pros
-makes Carriers into a skill-intensive, space control unit as opposed to a massable deathblob
Cons
-makes Carriers into the Liberator
At this point, I would say that the pros outweigh the cons...
Yeah, I realized there is a lot of common ground with the Liberator, but not entirely:
- Carriers can move while Interceptors are deployed
- Interceptors can be shot down
- No deploy time on interceptors except their movement time
- With deployment on cooldown, Carriers are completely defenseless on their own
Still, I think the concept fits the Carrier much more naturally than the Liberator. And with this many units there probably are bound to be similar abilities ...
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On October 24 2015 06:42 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 06:34 Cyro wrote:GIVE THE ADEPT ITS OLD STRENGTH AND MOVE IT TO TWILIGHT TECH ALREADY Just make a twilight upgrade that adds like 25 hp (not shields), 25% attack speed upgrade and adds a minor guaranteed splash component to its attack so that it can stand its ground against marine marauder medivac that has a few ghosts mixed in You want a single unit to be able to fight Marines, Marauders, Medivacs, and Ghosts. A single easily spammable, warp-it-in-wherever-you-need-it, unit. To fight four units, two of which are tier 2+, one of which costs a gas building to produce. Fight them and not lose. Even though it has one upgrade, and they have a minimum of 2. And you want it to not lose. Am I understanding you correctly?
Hehe I would love this. But realistically it makes sense that gateway should lose to bio+ medivacs when on even attack/armor since the medivacs add alot to the gas cost of the army.
I would like it however, if they could win again vs bio without medivacs.
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United Kingdom20319 Posts
On October 24 2015 07:20 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 06:43 Cyro wrote:On October 24 2015 06:42 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 24 2015 06:34 Cyro wrote:GIVE THE ADEPT ITS OLD STRENGTH AND MOVE IT TO TWILIGHT TECH ALREADY Just make a twilight upgrade that adds like 25 hp (not shields), 25% attack speed upgrade and adds a minor guaranteed splash component to its attack so that it can stand its ground against marine marauder medivac that has a few ghosts mixed in You want a single unit to be able to fight Marines, Marauders, Medivacs, and Ghosts. A single easily spammable, warp-it-in-wherever-you-need-it, unit. To fight four units, two of which are tier 2+, one of which costs a gas building to produce. Fight them and not lose. Even though it has one upgrade, and they have a minimum of 2. And you want it to not lose. Am I understanding you correctly? I want 60 supply of twilight-upgraded adept/zealot/stalker/sentry to not get compeltely destroyed by 40-60 supply of upgraded bio (and nerf other units like colossus appropriately) so you just produce two colossi and amove over the T. I think everyone understands your pov now at least.
That's why you remove the WOL colossus from the game because literally almost nobody who understands the situation wants that unit to exist. T/Z almost universally hates playing against it and P hates having units and mechanics like colossus and warpgate that force their core units to be underpowered for balance to be possible.
Please. Unless you're referring to the Medivac as part of Bio's upgrades, this claim has BS written all over it. And that's not like you, Cyro!
Terran players are the only ones having a problem with me for having a bunch of very valid, evidence backed opinions. I've played the game for 5 and a half years up to master level, watched many hundreds of games and seen about 400 legacy games at high master - GM level since they removed macro mechanics, so in the later half of the beta. I usually don't even bother to say the ridiculous stuff - and that quote that i wrote is nowhere close to it.
I want 60 supply of twilight-upgraded adept/zealot/stalker/sentry to not get compeltely destroyed by 40-60 supply of upgraded bio (and nerf other units like colossus appropriately)
If twilight tech comes as late as medivacs then sure i want it to be competitive. If you're having fights with 100 supply on both sides, sure medivacs are gonna be there and sure twilight will if you were to play an upgraded gateway style. If terran autolost in the midgame (not just lategame) without a bunch of liberators it wouldn't be any fun, same for protoss with disruptors.
In the end if and when both players are getting near max supply and have a ton of money, sure they can build those units and there's nothing wrong with that. The midgame reliance is the thing that i have always hated - rush to 2 colossus, rush to storm or kill your opponent at 8 minutes, it's not as fun as the game could be IMO.
It was always a game of get to 2 nexus and then get colossus/storm immediately before you die - now it's the same but with 3 nexus and with another unit to replace the colossus.
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Cyro I agree with your overall point, it's no fun to watch terran "multitask" Protoss to death when it is more because the whole Protoss army is so reliant on colossus and other AoE.
However I am completely ok for Protoss gateway to be slightly inferior than bio with medivac.
Power units are what makes Protoss vastly different than other two races (especially against terran which every bio units are equal to another)
It is why despite the initial point I stated, I still want it to remain this way, I would only reduce the dependency of these units and make them more fun (like disruptor), which I think blizzard is doing well with adepts (just need more tweaks).
Adepts offer a stronger gateway army that can buy more time for the power unit to rebuild.
Another are warp prism range pick up and the relatively stronger immortals
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United Kingdom20319 Posts
the team decided to BUFF ZEALOTS so that they could be competitive to Adepts. We all know how things turned out after this.
So this quote is 10 years ago but i feel it's important to reply.
They accidentally extremely overbuffed the zealot because of a bug and a disconnect between two internal test builds. When it was discovered, the damage was lowered to 8 instead of 30.. and since then it's been left there, because that was the original design intent.
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@ETisME I agree. Still feel like some mechanics (release interceptor, power of disruptor, warpgate) can be a bit too limiting to the race, causing substantial nerfs that would otherwise not be neccesary
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By the way, when do they revert Chronoboost back to its HotS state ?
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Don't you guys feel that the extension is really poor for Terrans ??
Not in terms of balance, but on new things that Terrans have compare to Htos..
While Toss and Zerg seems to have completly new meta and tons of new units, terran game play is approximativly the same as before.
very disapointing
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EPT
