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LotV Community Feedback Update - October 22 - Page 3

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
170 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
xtorn
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
4060 Posts
October 22 2015 19:31 GMT
#41
Good update, especially on the liberators topic. Nice.
Life - forever the Legend in my heart
ondik
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Czech Republic2908 Posts
October 22 2015 19:34 GMT
#42
As someone who doesn't follow the beta too much - in the beginning everyone was complaining about Adept being a weak and useless unit. Now I see people complain about it being too strong. Did they buff it that much, or did people learn how to use it properly?
Bisu. The one and only. // Save the cheerreaver, save the world (of SC2)
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 19:40:23
October 22 2015 19:39 GMT
#43
On October 23 2015 04:34 ondik wrote:
As someone who doesn't follow the beta too much - in the beginning everyone was complaining about Adept being a weak and useless unit. Now I see people complain about it being too strong. Did they buff it that much, or did people learn how to use it properly?


They overbuffed it so that it was OP early and bad lategame. Then they nerfed it so it's kinda bad at all stages
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
October 22 2015 19:40 GMT
#44
Might actually be worth building adepts again
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
October 22 2015 19:40 GMT
#45
On October 23 2015 04:34 ondik wrote:
As someone who doesn't follow the beta too much - in the beginning everyone was complaining about Adept being a weak and useless unit. Now I see people complain about it being too strong. Did they buff it that much, or did people learn how to use it properly?


They buffed it a lot, and now they have gradually nerfed them down patch by patch.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 19:42:12
October 22 2015 19:41 GMT
#46
On October 23 2015 04:40 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 04:34 ondik wrote:
As someone who doesn't follow the beta too much - in the beginning everyone was complaining about Adept being a weak and useless unit. Now I see people complain about it being too strong. Did they buff it that much, or did people learn how to use it properly?


They buffed it a lot, and now they have gradually nerfed them down patch by patch.


It was mostly on one patch really - they nerfed its base HP by 30 (when reworking the upgrade) and then 10 more like a week later
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
HomeWorld
Profile Joined December 2011
Romania903 Posts
October 22 2015 19:42 GMT
#47
On October 23 2015 04:40 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 04:34 ondik wrote:
As someone who doesn't follow the beta too much - in the beginning everyone was complaining about Adept being a weak and useless unit. Now I see people complain about it being too strong. Did they buff it that much, or did people learn how to use it properly?


They buffed it a lot, and now they have gradually nerfed them down patch by patch.

If the attack speed increase is a nerf , then by God, I think we're talking about a different game.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 19:46:37
October 22 2015 19:45 GMT
#48
On October 23 2015 04:41 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 04:40 Big J wrote:
On October 23 2015 04:34 ondik wrote:
As someone who doesn't follow the beta too much - in the beginning everyone was complaining about Adept being a weak and useless unit. Now I see people complain about it being too strong. Did they buff it that much, or did people learn how to use it properly?


They buffed it a lot, and now they have gradually nerfed them down patch by patch.


It was mostly on one patch really - they nerfed its base HP by 30 (when reworking the upgrade) and then 10 more like a week later

Yeah true. I'm, probably mixing it up in my head because of the 100ths form of warpgate and chronoboost being also gradual nerfs to adept rushes, but not to the unit itself.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 19:48:06
October 22 2015 19:47 GMT
#49
If the attack speed increase is a nerf , then by God, I think we're talking about a different game.


The 40 base HP was a huge nerf to their strong areas in the game; they used to compete well against roaches, marauders, stalkers and widow mines were awful against them. It made them lose to those units and get 1shot by widow mines. This is before the upgrade comes into play, especially.

They were never strong vs standard MMM/Liberator/Ghost and they're not now, but now they're much weaker early game too.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Gullis
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden740 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 19:53:29
October 22 2015 19:53 GMT
#50
On October 23 2015 04:30 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
Carrier
We agree with your feedback in that even after the build time reduction, Carriers with the Release Interceptor ability are most likely too strong for cost in head-on engagements. We’ve been trying various changes, and we wonder if just a straight up Carrier health nerf is a decent way to go.


Kidding? That's insane. It needed a power nerf in the first place - why are we fucking around with the build time?

That was never the problem. Now we'll have a ridiculous long build time forever.

Yeah I thought more people was gonna react on this as well.
We want a useful carrier that is possible to get, not a carrier that is op but impossible to get.
I would rather eat than see my children starve.
Shinba
Profile Joined October 2015
25 Posts
October 22 2015 19:53 GMT
#51
On October 23 2015 04:47 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
If the attack speed increase is a nerf , then by God, I think we're talking about a different game.


The 40 base HP was a huge nerf to their strong areas in the game; they used to compete well against roaches, marauders, stalkers and widow mines were awful against them. It made them lose to those units and get 1shot by widow mines. This is before the upgrade comes into play, especially.

They were never strong vs standard MMM/Liberator/Ghost and they're not now, but now they're much weaker early game too.


Their strong in all ins.

Disruptors to need a nerf to damage, they 1 shots so many units is very dumb
HomeWorld
Profile Joined December 2011
Romania903 Posts
October 22 2015 19:56 GMT
#52
On October 23 2015 04:47 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
If the attack speed increase is a nerf , then by God, I think we're talking about a different game.


The 40 base HP was a huge nerf to their strong areas in the game; they used to compete well against roaches, marauders, stalkers and widow mines were awful against them. It made them lose to those units and get 1shot by widow mines. This is before the upgrade comes into play, especially.

They were never strong vs standard MMM/Liberator/Ghost and they're not now, but now they're much weaker early game too.


Your attempts to make this Warhound 2.0 reincarnation look as a workable with unit design is laughable.
Ppl who haven't dealt with you in the past might actually take you seriously ...
Alienship
Profile Joined July 2015
China26 Posts
October 22 2015 19:57 GMT
#53
The underlying reason that Nydus Worm plays are uncommon can be due to "Survivorship Bias" - the game ends before zerg players deploys Nydus Worm (they either lose the game before they can utilize Nydus Worm or they defeat their opponent without using Nydus Worm). In the games that involve late game units, the reason that Nydus Worm is rarely used can be that units like 8-armored Ultralisks, Vipers, and Broodlords are powerful enough to win the game. Therefore, the reason that one rarely see Nydus Worm in the game is not because it is weak (qualified for buff), but because IT IS REPLACEABLE / OVERSHADOW BY OTHER STRATEGIES. That is something the team should think of.

Their concern of Nydus Worm brings up an earlier balance change to me: since Zealots were overshadowed by Adepts and players included more Adepts than Zealots in their armies, the team decided to BUFF ZEALOTS so that they could be competitive to Adepts. We all know how things turned out after this. After nerfing the charge damage, Adepts were nerfed significantly and eventually the role of Adepts changed.

One take-home message: "survivorship bias" can lead to overbuffing or overnerfing.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 20:07:01
October 22 2015 20:06 GMT
#54
On October 23 2015 04:56 HomeWorld wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 04:47 Cyro wrote:
If the attack speed increase is a nerf , then by God, I think we're talking about a different game.


The 40 base HP was a huge nerf to their strong areas in the game; they used to compete well against roaches, marauders, stalkers and widow mines were awful against them. It made them lose to those units and get 1shot by widow mines. This is before the upgrade comes into play, especially.

They were never strong vs standard MMM/Liberator/Ghost and they're not now, but now they're much weaker early game too.


Your attempts to make this Warhound 2.0 reincarnation look as a workable with unit design is laughable.
Ppl who haven't dealt with you in the past might actually take you seriously ...


Warhounds beat every unit cost effectively at every stage of the game. Adepts never did - they were extremely powerful early, extremely weak late - but only explicitly broken during the warp prism warpgate timing
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
knOxStarcraft
Profile Joined March 2012
Canada422 Posts
October 22 2015 20:21 GMT
#55
Remove parasitic bomb and give zerg scourge. The baneling is a great unit because it leads to great micro and big moments for viewers, scourge can be the same. May as well remove infestors at the same time.
Bojas
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands2397 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 20:22:53
October 22 2015 20:22 GMT
#56
Nothing about the 8armor ultras/cyclones?
HomeWorld
Profile Joined December 2011
Romania903 Posts
October 22 2015 20:22 GMT
#57
On October 23 2015 05:06 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 04:56 HomeWorld wrote:
On October 23 2015 04:47 Cyro wrote:
If the attack speed increase is a nerf , then by God, I think we're talking about a different game.


The 40 base HP was a huge nerf to their strong areas in the game; they used to compete well against roaches, marauders, stalkers and widow mines were awful against them. It made them lose to those units and get 1shot by widow mines. This is before the upgrade comes into play, especially.

They were never strong vs standard MMM/Liberator/Ghost and they're not now, but now they're much weaker early game too.


Your attempts to make this Warhound 2.0 reincarnation look as a workable with unit design is laughable.
Ppl who haven't dealt with you in the past might actually take you seriously ...


Warhounds beat every unit cost effectively at every stage of the game. Adepts never did - they were extremely powerful early, extremely weak late - but only explicitly broken during the warp prism warpgate timing

Adepts are way too cost efficient, until late game where having adepts doesn't make sense, why would someone still sane enough use adepts instead of something more efficient than carriers/tempests/storms ?
What you fail to grasp is that abusing adepts in early/mid game allows a far easier late game transition into air (if the opponent even survives till then).

DeadByDawn
Profile Joined October 2012
United Kingdom476 Posts
October 22 2015 20:27 GMT
#58
On October 23 2015 05:06 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 04:56 HomeWorld wrote:
On October 23 2015 04:47 Cyro wrote:
If the attack speed increase is a nerf , then by God, I think we're talking about a different game.


The 40 base HP was a huge nerf to their strong areas in the game; they used to compete well against roaches, marauders, stalkers and widow mines were awful against them. It made them lose to those units and get 1shot by widow mines. This is before the upgrade comes into play, especially.

They were never strong vs standard MMM/Liberator/Ghost and they're not now, but now they're much weaker early game too.


Your attempts to make this Warhound 2.0 reincarnation look as a workable with unit design is laughable.
Ppl who haven't dealt with you in the past might actually take you seriously ...


Warhounds beat every unit cost effectively at every stage of the game. Adepts never did - they were extremely powerful early, extremely weak late - but only explicitly broken during the warp prism warpgate timing

Don't care how many Warhounds you had - I could beat them with 1 banshee. So EVERY unit??

Adepts were nerfed for a damn good reason - the most broken unit to enter the game since the warhound. They need to be super careful about buffing it or low-skill protoss players will be back to mass adept bullshit again.

Upset we are still not targeting the Nydus worm with a change this patch and still not addressing the PB.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24193 Posts
October 22 2015 20:30 GMT
#59
At least their reasonings and argumentation kinda makes sense this time, which I find reassuring. But damn, someone needs to buy those guys an Occam razor. Such convoluted, intricate, uselessly complicated ways of designing the game... Nothing clean, simple or elegant.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-22 20:31:59
October 22 2015 20:31 GMT
#60
until late game where having adepts doesn't make sense, why would someone still sane enough use adepts


Why would a sane terran use marine/marauder/medivac in the stage that adepts became worthless? Because they were better units.

Adepts were nerfed for a damn good reason - the most broken unit to enter the game since the warhound.


Super powerful early game, super useless later. That was always an issue.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
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