EPTApparently hacking is not currently possible - Page 3
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crazedrat
272 Posts
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varsovie
Canada326 Posts
On October 14 2015 07:36 Umpteen wrote: It could be that Blizzard have introduced some code that they can endlessly reconfigure with minimal effort. Everyone gets a tiny patch each week and the hacks get knocked back to square one. Would have 3 side effects though : Would probably break saves/replays, Even more Bnet downtime and possibly the impossibility to switch region, May introduce some unseen bugs/instability. Plus I'm sure hackers would then develop heuristics to find the offsets and addresses automatically.  So far this is the most keen "hard solution" I've seen here. Although it would probably not help very much versus "macro trainers" automation and micro-hacks (mechanics), it would probably help vs maphacks/enemy production tab kind of hack (information). It's not uprising that Blizzard ups its anti-hack measures right before LotV, and probably will maintain an active policy against hackers for at least the rest of 2015 in order to get the release hype under as best an image they can. It remains to see if those kind of effort will vanish soon after like it did for HotS. | ||
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
On October 14 2015 08:02 varsovie wrote:Would probably break saves/replays, Not neccessarily. This depends on how replays and saves are structured. If they do it the bad way then yes. If they do it properly then no. On October 14 2015 08:02 varsovie wrote:Even more Bnet downtime and possibly the impossibility to switch region Downtime? You mean because of the patch? And why would you not be able to switch regions? On October 14 2015 08:02 varsovie wrote:May introduce some unseen bugs/instability. Things like these are not done by hand but rather by a computer. Computers do not make mistakes. This is just basic refactoring. On October 14 2015 08:02 varsovie wrote:Plus I'm sure hackers would then develop heuristics to find the offsets and addresses automatically. Thats why it needs to be truly random. Like a natural random number generator based on chemical / radioactive material. Furthermore it should not just be simple "moving" of adresses, because this is simple to reverse engineer. Much rather it should obfuscate data in memory by calculating variables from different memory adresses to make up the final value. For example: Mineral counts are calculated as the sum of mem adress A, B and C. This would make it much harder to find out at which adress the mineral count is saved. Especially if the sum uses a different number of summands after each patch. On October 14 2015 08:02 varsovie wrote:Although it would probably not help very much versus "macro trainers" automation and micro-hacks (mechanics), it would probably help vs maphacks/enemy production tab kind of hack (information). Would help against these kinds of things too. The automatic micro / macro needs to read / write memory too in order to work. If everything switches around these hacks would not work either. The only kinds of hacks that would still work would need to be based off of image or time data. They could make a screen capture and analyse the image to find invisible units and highlight them. This would be too complicated for simple hacks though I guess. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
(not directing this at anyone, it's clear enough who is who) | ||
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alexanderzero
United States659 Posts
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Penev
28527 Posts
On October 14 2015 07:36 Umpteen wrote: It could be that Blizzard have introduced some code that they can endlessly reconfigure with minimal effort. Everyone gets a tiny patch each week and the hacks get knocked back to square one. Blizzard are Borg | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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xTJx
Brazil419 Posts
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BigRedDog
461 Posts
Second, since Blizzard hasn't been playing an active part in kicking or discouraging any maphakc plays (ban accounts etc), i really doubt they will do anything soon. Lastly, that's one tweet coming from an individual. Is there any credible source to back this up? I am a diamond player so this maphack doesn't irritate me much. But i can understand from a pro-gamer trying to get to the top in ladders, this is seriously frustrating to play against. I do wish someone in Blizzard is monitoring maphack accounts and crack them down. Temp ban is too light. Any account caught maphacking should be ban permanently. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 14 2015 08:30 alexanderzero wrote: Hopefully, someday Blizzard will only send visible information to the clients. That isn't really viable for a RTS (as of now). | ||
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ETisME
12704 Posts
I don't think hacking will stop, it's just that hackers need to find a new way to back in. Hopefully it is not as easy and drive up the cost for hacking | ||
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On October 14 2015 02:28 ROOTFayth wrote: avilo does not believe that :D :D | ||
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
On October 14 2015 13:22 ETisME wrote: Has any popular game really been free from hacking? I don't think hacking will stop, it's just that hackers need to find a new way to back in. Hopefully it is not as easy and drive up the cost for hacking console games mostly I think? at least it very rarely happened. I followed the Halo 3 scene pretty closely and can't really remember any issues with hackers (I mean there were one or two things that technically existed and occasionally people complained but I don't think it was rampant or anything like that. there was a hacked gametype that was played alot but that was just to lower the respawn time down to almost instant.) | ||
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Riner1212
United States337 Posts
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riotjune
United States3394 Posts
Now if only the same thing could be said with a FTL warp drive that defies the (current) laws of physics. | ||
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
Address Obfuscation: an Efficient Approach to Combat a Broad Range of Memory Error Exploits http://home.eng.iastate.edu/~daji/seminar/papers/BVS03.UsenixSec.pdf Cryptographic obfuscation and 'unhackable' software http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2014/02/cryptographic-obfuscation-and.html Preventing Memory Access Pattern Leakage in Searchable Encryption https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/bitstream/handle/2142/73758/459_ready.pdf?sequence=2 API Deobfuscator: Identifying Runtime obfuscated API calls via Memory Access Analysis https://www.blackhat.com/docs/asia-15/materials/asia-15-Choi-API-Deobfuscator-Indentifying-Runtime-Obfuscated-API-Calls-Via-Memory-Access-Analysis.pdf All of these talk about randomly moving addresses or splitting values up and scattering them across several addresses to make them harder to reverse engineer. Of course, the articles are not all about this, there is much deeper information inside. Just in case anybody is interested. | ||
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varsovie
Canada326 Posts
On October 14 2015 08:16 RoomOfMush wrote: Not neccessarily. This depends on how replays and saves are structured. If they do it the bad way then yes. If they do it properly then no. Replays are simply a stream of command applied to a set of original game logic. You can see the same principle in most text editor using the undo/redo command, it doesn't save the state of the text for each undo, but simply apply/reverse the delta (change/inputs). If you're changing the way those gamelogic are stored, created or modified, there's great risk that you wouldn't be able to read it. Even if the change is very subtle and only creates an infinitesimal rounding error on the speed or direction of a unit it might greatly change the outcome of some games. Think of it as a "desync" error, but that would appears reading old replays. Of course this is just speculation and SC2 has a very solid engine in this regard if only from the fact the MAC version works very well, but it is still a risk. Downtime? You mean because of the patch? And why would you not be able to switch regions? Bnet is always down for some reason. Maintenance, Patch, Crashes, Extreme Lag... I don't even think they reach 99% availability. If you had to that mandatory patches every weeks or so, then it's another little pause, another few seconds to patch, probably a minute or two more on your queue time... For regions they never patch all servers at the same time to avoid a pause at the peak hour. Sure SC2 can keep "old" executable around, but it would kinda moot the point of patching to counter hacks if you're not changing everything at once. Things like these are not done by hand but rather by a computer. Computers do not make mistakes. This is just basic refactoring. Things like this are made by hands, typed via a keyboard, into a text-editor or IDE, then put into a compiler also written by hand than will use the power of your CPU (mostly designed by a software written by hand and then hand improved) to make it readable by your CPU, then it must be distributed to be read via multiple computer to be handled by an OS (also written the same way)... Sure they could automate it, but it would still require to make the automation tools in the 1st place. Also computers DO make mistakes, that's the whole reason we have so many security and integrity checks. Electrons aren't infallible when you rely on them to move a certain way couple billions times a second on a substrate that you count in atoms (in fact less than a hundred of thickness for latest commercial CPUs). The whole point is that code isn't infallible, so you don't mess with stable code EVER. Thats why it needs to be truly random. Like a natural random number generator based on chemical / radioactive material. Furthermore it should not just be simple "moving" of adresses, because this is simple to reverse engineer. Much rather it should obfuscate data in memory by calculating variables from different memory adresses to make up the final value. For example: Mineral counts are calculated as the sum of mem adress A, B and C. This would make it much harder to find out at which adress the mineral count is saved. Especially if the sum uses a different number of summands after each patch. Even "quantum" RNG generator on latest intel CPU isn't considered random enough and merely used to seed the random number generator. Heck every new Kernel of Linux there's a new source of entropy added. Of course that kind of obstruction you suggest means I couldn't just make 25 rax and then search all adress for a "25" value. But it wouldn't change much since hackers don't "monitore and look at every values", since you can debug the executable (at least playing offline), save the values, change something (let say build a rax) then simply take a look at the delta. People have reverse engineered obscuration methods way more advanced, like the PS3 loking code or the MD5 hashs, so I do not think a dimple ADD gonna change much. And if you're going for a more advanced method then you will need to "reverse" it back to be readable by the game at EVERY read which brings 3 problems : clear value gonna be small enough to stay on CPU otherwise it gonna be saved on RAM, heavy CPU overhead (lag) do read EVERY values, instead of looking for mem offsets hackers just gonna find what instruction makes the encode/decode of value, and reuse it in their hacks or reverse engineer it. Would help against these kinds of things too. The automatic micro / macro needs to read / write memory too in order to work. If everything switches around these hacks would not work either. The only kinds of hacks that would still work would need to be based off of image or time data. They could make a screen capture and analyse the image to find invisible units and highlight them. This would be too complicated for simple hacks though I guess. Automatic scripts don't really have to read memory... | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1150 Posts
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Karolynaz
1 Post
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
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