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I was thinking what if blizzard where to make balance changes with 2v2 in mind on a map like Cactus valley with all possible matchups in mind?
Everything extreme would have to be nerfed, gateway allins, turbovacs, mutas because the possible of doing it 2x on one player.
At the same time it wouldn't be possible to play defensive with out being on the map incase you need to help your allie.
I think the changes that would be required would cause a lot of the unforgiving factors to go away having a huge positive effect on 1v1.
And ofcourse the current 2v2 is bad (and has always been). The balance is terrible and maps are so boring with how all of them have the share main base thing.
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Bisutopia19300 Posts
On September 28 2015 08:11 Gullis wrote:
I was thinking what if blizzard where to make balance changes with 2v2 in mind on a map like Cactus valley with all possible matchups in mind?
Everything extreme would have to be nerfed, gateway allins, turbovacs, mutas because the possible of doing it 2x on one player.
At the same time it wouldn't be possible to play defensive with out being on the map incase you need to help your allie.
I think the changes that would be required would cause a lot of the unforgiving factors to go away having a huge positive effect on 1v1.
And ofcourse the current 2v2 is bad (and has always been). The balance is terrible and maps are so boring with how all of them have the share main base thing.
What if blizzard added units/abilites/changes for 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4? Especially 4v4. I was just thinking about that today. Thought I'd add it.
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I'm still annoyed by cannon rushers and cancer mech, but after 2 weeks without playing, i'm sort of enjoying SC2 again.
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So every game except LoL and Dota is a failure? And you can't compare games from different genres. The RTS market is not as big anymore so it's very impressive that sc2 could maintain such a high player and viewer count.
See you alreay make this to be about black and white. I say Starcraft is not a huge succes and you imply that I them must think that Starcraft is a huge failure. Which is ridiclous because I used the term mediocre/average repediately in this discussion to get rid of the black/white thing. Again, THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE.
So why do you go to a forum of a game you don't play and talk !@#$%^&*? I don't go to the LoL forums either and say how bad the game is and only noobs play that.
Because you don't play LOL and have no idea about MOBA-design. I played thousands of hours playing Starcraft, and I understand the target group very well, and I have - most likely - spent more time assessing Starcraft from a gamedesign perspective than anyone else here.
Isn't it quite obvious why that comparison makes no sense? Wouldn't you have realized that if you thought before you wrote?
Ironically, it's also worth noting that what you shouldn't do in a debate is harassing people by implying that TL is only a place for people who love David Kim and everything about Starcraft. Everyone who shares a different opinion isn't allowed to be here according to you and you will start harassing them. See I don't do that, and neither should you if you had any type of moral standards + if you THOUGHT BEFORE YOU WROTE.
I think the criteria of a random TL guy are pretty worthless compared to the criteria of the lead designer of the biggest RTS for the last 5 years.
Appeal to authority fallacy. I presented my arguments, but apparently you lack the skillset to argue yourself. That's okay, I don't think stupid people aren't allowed to be on TL, but that still doesn't justify flawed logic.
Just some advice: THINK BEFORE you write.
TLDR:
Think before you write. You clearly have some huge bias and just spew out nonsense and strawmans without doing any type of research or tryng to understand the counterparts position.
Given your obvious ignorance, please don't respond to me before you actually do a bit of research on topics like target group, what a discussion is, what easy to learn difficult to master means, and how to set up argments without using bad rhetorical tricks.
Thanks in advance.
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On September 28 2015 09:27 Hider wrote:
See you alreay make this to be about black and white. I say Starcraft is not a huge succes and you start to talk about huge failure. Which is ridiclous because I used the term mediocre/average repediately in this discussion to get rid of the black/white thing. Again, THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE.
Blizzard did a nice job of getting as much cash as they could from a genre whose core audience is not being replaced. The payoff in RTS is big army on big army engagements and that is now the domain of Clash of Clans and Game of War. This is what 12-17 year olds are playing which is why every baseball game i watch i see nothing but Kate Upton and Game of War commercials... like non-fucking-stop. 12-17 years are not attached to their PCs the way the TL.Net 20-something crowd was when they were 12-17 (me included). Now kids ( and lots of adults ) are playing Clash of Clans and Game of War on their tablets. In 2000 the only way u can have really cool looking massive army fights is on a giant desktop PC with 4 cooling fans.
Also, the general PC player is bored of teh fundamentals of the RTS genre. Much like arcade players got bored of dot-eating maze games in the 1980s. The games got better and the popularity declined. Just because a game is better does not mean it can stem the overall tide of general boredom of what the game is all about. SC2 is squarely in that predicament.
forces outside of ATVI's control made it impossible for SC2 to be a huge financial success.
That said, in terms of revenue it probably made more money than SC1 because most copies were sold after it was a $20 BattleChest at BestBuy and GameStop.
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wont be playing now that i see the economy is still #automated. sad days
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On September 28 2015 16:46 Ozmodeus wrote:
wont be playing now that i see the economy is still #automated. sad days
What do you mean by automated. What.
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On September 28 2015 16:46 Ozmodeus wrote:
wont be playing now that i see the economy is still #automated. sad days
its not automated atm
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Of course economy is automated. But I don't think that is what he meant. 
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On September 28 2015 01:34 Tiaraju9 wrote:
Day9 is better game desigmer than David Kim. These feedbacks threads are hard to read these days lol.
The Starbow guys are better game designers than DK. Day9 has done shit zero so far. Once he has something to show then you can talk about his game design qualities. Fanboys these days...
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On September 28 2015 16:54 Brutaxilos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2015 16:46 Ozmodeus wrote:
wont be playing now that i see the economy is still #automated. sad days What do you mean by automated. What.
Workers go to mine minerals right after building, what else :D :D
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On September 26 2015 06:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
-Remove MULE hammer
-Look at LotV economy again
-Nerf Adept and Warp Prism
-Fix Forcefield
-Fix arcade and custom lobbies
This is the things that need to happen for LotV.
Remove Mothership Core and Mothership, period. Unique heroic unit doesn't belong to the multiplayer game mode.
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On September 28 2015 18:10 TedCruz2016 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2015 06:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
-Remove MULE hammer
-Look at LotV economy again
-Nerf Adept and Warp Prism
-Fix Forcefield
-Fix arcade and custom lobbies
This is the things that need to happen for LotV. Remove Mothership Core and Mothership, period. Unique heroic unit doesn't belong to the multiplayer game mode.
Oh and also less abilities on each units, and maybe even less units also
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On September 28 2015 18:08 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2015 01:34 Tiaraju9 wrote:
Day9 is better game desigmer than David Kim. These feedbacks threads are hard to read these days lol. The Starbow guys are better game designers than DK. Day9 has done shit zero so far. Once he has something to show then you can talk about his game design qualities. Fanboys these days...
While the Starbow guys have shown that they have talent, you keep forgetting that a lot of the game design has been laid out for them. Game Design is much more than just thinking of units or abilities.
People keep simplifying Game Design but it's one of the most difficult things you could do. Every button, every click, every audiovisual cue, every hint, every mechanic is planned, laid out and implemented with the help of Game Designers. Nothing is "just there" and it has to be designed.
Making a map for Starcraft 2, even with your own units, is just requiring work in a small portion of the Game Design.
So I think it's not possible to make a valid judgement on whether or not the Starbow guys are better than Blizzard guys, because they are relying on Blizzard's work. Even if you think Starbow is the better SC2, it's still a ton of Blizzard's work going in.
So I think the Starbow guys are good, but their work doesn't take away from Blizzard's work at all.
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While the Starbow guys have shown that they have talent, you keep forgetting that a lot of the game design has been laid out for them
More relevant, Starbow hasn't had succes with any new ability, newplaystyle (bio still isn't viable TvP) or any new unit. Each time they have deviated slightly from BW it hasn't worked out.
Archangel is just as much a fanboy when he praises the Starbow crew as those who blindly praises Day9.
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are any of the match ups ending up with mass air? One of my biggest fears and probably one of the only things that would make me stop playing
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Nobody here is "praising day9", i just said i have hope because i think his design philosophies are sound.
Obviously that doesn't mean that Atlas will automatically be a good game, but hey as i said before, it's pretty much the only chance left as far as i can tell.
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On September 28 2015 18:08 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2015 01:34 Tiaraju9 wrote:
Day9 is better game desigmer than David Kim. These feedbacks threads are hard to read these days lol. The Starbow guys are better game designers than DK. Day9 has done shit zero so far. Once he has something to show then you can talk about his game design qualities. Fanboys these days...
This seems like an odd statement. Surely you know he is on the team for Atlas, an RTS in development right now. Or are you just saying that because they haven't unveiled the game yet--beyond their NDA-protected internal testers--that he hasn't done anything? Just a weird statement.
Someone above me mentioned an important element of the changing industry: the PC is going away. And by "going away" I mean, "going away for the general public." Essentially, it has already been replaced by mobile devices (i.e., phones, tablets, etc ...). The PC will never truly go away, but will be relegated to the hobbyist and enthusiast crowds.
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I hope SC3 turns out a better game, too late for SC2. All the additional new basic units in SC2 are disappointments for me. Adept, Sentry, Marauder, Roach. They all feel that they do not belong the race and frustrating to play against.
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never would have pre ordered if i knew macro would be so shit and automated. GG
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EPT
