EPTOn September 04 2015 05:26 Naracs_Duc wrote:
If Phoenixes look stupid doing moving shot--then why argue for bringing back moving shot that requires more clicks?
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On September 04 2015 03:27 Bohemond wrote:
There is overkill protection, how it's programmed isn't really relevant. Whether it's intentional isn't relevant either. Its effect on gameplay is tangible.
I read that Blizz was going to have moving shot in SC2 but had trouble implementing it. I don't know if it's true or not, maybe they're just lazy, which is pretty likely I'll grant. As for the whole invisible micro crap and spectator value. I think it's obvious how well that worked in the long run. With all the spectators SC2 has these days, ya know?
The skins/supply cap is something that Blizzard has actually said. So, they're lying?
Are far as Phoenixes are concerned. They have horrible interaction with pretty much everything in the air, especially Mutas.
This is a stupid discussion.
On September 04 2015 03:00 Excalibur_Z wrote:
There is no such thing as overkill protection. What you perceive to be overkill protection is actually a combination of the engine being more diligent about target acquisition and instant-travel weapons actually landing instantly. In BW, you could have situations where a Siege Tank, which supposedly has an "instant" weapon via firing a projectile of allegedly infinite speed, could miss its target if the target were lifted into a transport. The weapon cooldown triggers, which means the attack was fully executed, but the shot does no damage. That's because there is a slight delay between the time where a target is acquired, when the attack launches, when the projectile lands, and when the damage happens. Those are all, at minimum, 4 separate frames on a 30 fps game. SC2 runs at a higher framerate, which means it can run these checks twice as frequently, and it rolls together the target acquisition and firing frames and the damage and projectile-connection frames. It may even roll together those last two pairings so everything happens on the same frame, I don't know.
Moving shot is also entirely possible and has been done by fans in the Galaxy Editor simply by changing attack point and deceleration values. It was a design decision to make Phoenixes the way they are because moving shot is a weird arcane thing that's functionally the same as stutter-stepping only harder for an average user to identify and appreciate, and they were principally concerned with spectator value.
The skins/supply cap/supply costs thing is just completely wrong and nonsensical.
On September 03 2015 18:12 Bohemond wrote:
Overkill protection is in the game.
As I understand from reading about the development/watching videos about it, they wanted to have moving shot, and scrapped the idea due to technical difficulties. The SC2 engine is actually quite limited it seems. The reason why Blizzard won't do skins or raise supply cap/lower supply costs on units is because of the engine not being able to handle it.
On September 03 2015 18:06 KeksX wrote:
Stop saying "the engine can't do it" - can the engine move units? It can, and therefore it can move units while they're attacking. (simple implemenation: when a unit starts attacking, continue to move it towards it's previous direction for a short amount of time with a decreasing velocity - done)
It's a matter of Blizzard wanting to implement this and not a matter of "the engine can't do it".
And even if the engine couldn't do, which should be only the cases with really fundamental stuff, it it doesn't take 200 engineers to change it.
Overkill protection, moving shot and all those other things aren't impossible to implement. Blizzard just doesn't want to do it.
Stop saying "the engine can't do it" - can the engine move units? It can, and therefore it can move units while they're attacking. (simple implemenation: when a unit starts attacking, continue to move it towards it's previous direction for a short amount of time with a decreasing velocity - done)
It's a matter of Blizzard wanting to implement this and not a matter of "the engine can't do it".
And even if the engine couldn't do, which should be only the cases with really fundamental stuff, it it doesn't take 200 engineers to change it.
Overkill protection, moving shot and all those other things aren't impossible to implement. Blizzard just doesn't want to do it.
Overkill protection is in the game.
As I understand from reading about the development/watching videos about it, they wanted to have moving shot, and scrapped the idea due to technical difficulties. The SC2 engine is actually quite limited it seems. The reason why Blizzard won't do skins or raise supply cap/lower supply costs on units is because of the engine not being able to handle it.
There is no such thing as overkill protection. What you perceive to be overkill protection is actually a combination of the engine being more diligent about target acquisition and instant-travel weapons actually landing instantly. In BW, you could have situations where a Siege Tank, which supposedly has an "instant" weapon via firing a projectile of allegedly infinite speed, could miss its target if the target were lifted into a transport. The weapon cooldown triggers, which means the attack was fully executed, but the shot does no damage. That's because there is a slight delay between the time where a target is acquired, when the attack launches, when the projectile lands, and when the damage happens. Those are all, at minimum, 4 separate frames on a 30 fps game. SC2 runs at a higher framerate, which means it can run these checks twice as frequently, and it rolls together the target acquisition and firing frames and the damage and projectile-connection frames. It may even roll together those last two pairings so everything happens on the same frame, I don't know.
Moving shot is also entirely possible and has been done by fans in the Galaxy Editor simply by changing attack point and deceleration values. It was a design decision to make Phoenixes the way they are because moving shot is a weird arcane thing that's functionally the same as stutter-stepping only harder for an average user to identify and appreciate, and they were principally concerned with spectator value.
The skins/supply cap/supply costs thing is just completely wrong and nonsensical.
There is overkill protection, how it's programmed isn't really relevant. Whether it's intentional isn't relevant either. Its effect on gameplay is tangible.
I read that Blizz was going to have moving shot in SC2 but had trouble implementing it. I don't know if it's true or not, maybe they're just lazy, which is pretty likely I'll grant. As for the whole invisible micro crap and spectator value. I think it's obvious how well that worked in the long run. With all the spectators SC2 has these days, ya know?
The skins/supply cap is something that Blizzard has actually said. So, they're lying?
Are far as Phoenixes are concerned. They have horrible interaction with pretty much everything in the air, especially Mutas.
This is a stupid discussion.
If Phoenixes look stupid doing moving shot--then why argue for bringing back moving shot that requires more clicks?
What the hell are you talking about? I didn't say anything pertaining to the aesthetic appeal of Phoenixes. I said they interact poorly with other units.
Discussing whether or not Blizzard employees lie in their posts is what I was calling stupid.
