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qxc's thoughts: The Adept

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
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qxc's thoughts: The Adept

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics byshiroiusagi
August 13th, 2015 22:42 GMT



Everything in this article is my opinion unless otherwise stated. As a progamer for several years now, I have a wealth of personal experience and observations to draw upon. That said, sometimes I have to speculate.

Overview:

The adept is a gateway unit that only requires a cybernetics core to produce. The adept is a tanky frontline unit that excels vs light units due to its bonus damage. The bonus damage is substantial so the adept is poor against armored units such as marauders, roaches, and stalkers. Also, adepts 2 shots all workers making them an excellent harass unit. The twilight council has an upgrade which increases the adept’s shields by 50 raising its total life from 180 to 230. As shields often stay unupgraded gaining 50 shields with minimal armor is less impactful than a 50 hp increase.

The adept is really interesting because of Psionic Transfer. Psionic Transfer creates an image that moves about the speed of a reaper and can be controlled. This image cannot attack. After 7 seconds the adept then teleports to the image. This image is not affected by any collision from units although it cannot pass through buildings. The adept’s controller may cancel the image to prevent the teleportation. This allows the adept to threaten multiple locations at the same time. The most common use for this is to send the adept to one mineral line and images to the other thus making it very difficult for the defender to accurately split their army. The adept opens up a new range of harassment opportunities for protoss as well as new compositions due to its high hit points.

By the numbers:

Cost: 100/25
Damage: 10 (+13 vs light)
Build time same as a zealot
Health: 90/90
Armor: 1
Movement speed: same as a marine

Psionic Transfer: Projects an invulnerable Psionic Image that can move but cannot attack. After 7 seconds, the Adept teleports to the Image's location. Adept can cancel the shade ability at any time. When you cancel, the shade disappears and you don’t teleport. The image is about as fast as a reaper.

Upgrade:

Shield upgrade, costs 100/100 researches from twilight council, gives adept +50 shields bringing them to 140/90.

PvT:

Adepts rule the early game vs Terran. They 2 shot marines and so do an even better job of maintaining early map control compared to stalkers. In addition, Psionic Transfer gives them opportunities to bypass an early bunker and trade for scvs or force a fight vs marines. Protoss also has a much easier time scouting as the image created gives them vision. Terran must wall off their main and raise depots if any images are attempting to sneak into the main. Adepts are excellent at getting into position while there is other action on the map as the default configuration for Terran will be to have the wall open. Adepts excel in small unit encounters and are able to overcome the healing of medivacs on marines without much trouble due to their high burst damage vs light.

[image loading]
Adepts can close the gap against ranged units instantly using their image and also cut off retreat.

There are a number of strong adept openings, allins and timings early on although their effectiveness in a head on fight falls off greatly as soon as marauders, stim, shields, and medivacs are out. Shields allows marines to survive 2 shots from adepts, although it depends on the upgrades and if they’re able to heal at all after stimming before taking damage.

[image loading]
Nightend uses his adepts to completely surround the terran forces.

Due to adept’s relative low range and lack of anti-air, bio + medivacs are able to kite an adept heavy army and pick up if things get too dicey. Adepts are generally supplemented with blink stalkers to limit medivac movement and immortals to help deal with a heavy marauder based composition. Late game, adepts are used mostly to harass. Warp prisms and image runbys are very common in high level TvP and force Terran to have heavy map control or take huge losses when they move out.

PvP:

Due to adept’s high hitpoints and mobility, both players open 2 gate adept almost every game. As adepts do bonus damage to other adepts, the best unit to counter early adepts are also adepts.

[image loading]
Adepts from both sides scout using their image.

Stalkers, zealots and sentries just don’t do enough damage early game to stop adepts from trading for probes early on. Currently PvP involves a lot of adepts roaming the map and using the image to get into their opponent’s base. As adepts 2 shot probes, 2 adepts are able to do a lot of economic damage unless the defender has a significant number of units already in position.

[image loading]
Adepts use their image to peek inside his opponent’s base.

[image loading]
Adepts see their opponent out of position and transfer into the base where they wreak havoc.

[image loading]
Adepts bounce from one mineral line to another harassing workers while his opponent tries to keep up

[image loading]
Adepts work great in a warp prism as they two shot workers.

Some protoss players have taken to setting up the top of their ramp so they can wall it off with a single pylon to keep adepts out of their base as needed. Stargate has relatively limited usage here due to the threat of being overrun by adepts but can be effective in catching your opponent off guard or out of position.

[image loading]
A typical adept vs adept fight looks a bit like roach vs roach, but there’s far greater opportunities to sneak by and gain position.

The natural transitions once players make it up to 2 base lie in either robotics or twilight. Robotics provides a measure of safety against dark templar while also giving access to Disruptors.

[image loading]
As archons do bonus damage to adepts and do not take extra damage, they can be a potent mid game response.

Immortals and colossus see little play in the matchup currently as immortal’s bonus damage is irrelevant with adepts forming the majority of each player’s army and their shield spell having too long of a cooldown to use them for soaking a lot of damage. As adepts move relatively slowly and are pretty small, disruptors are generally able to catch a significant number of them in the blast.

[image loading]
Disruptors also do excellent damage as adepts tend to clump and are slow.

Players also choose to go into blink and/or the adept shield upgrade for either timings or general pressure. While this leaves them a bit more vulnerable to dts, twilight allows the core army to be significantly stronger.

PvZ:

Adepts largely fill the role of zealots in this matchup. They are strong against zerglings, have high hitpoints and relatively low range. Since they do not do bonus damage vs roaches, they do not perform well and can have trouble actually getting in range to deal damage to the hydralisks. Psionic Transfer helps a lot with positioning but it can be difficult to get the adepts in position without isolating them completely from your army when trying to get on top of the hydralisks. Early game, adept timings largely take the place of zealot timings as adepts are a bit easier to micro and are much more versatile. Psionic Transfer allows them to place additional pressure on the zerg as well as bypass walls while also being an extremely effective scout. As the game goes on, adepts won’t necessarily form a core part of the army as they often do in the other matchups but generally get at least sprinkled in due to their high hitpoints, ability to clear zerglings and scout.

[image loading]
Nightend uses adepts to attack one mineral line while his images allow him to quickly move to another.

[image loading]
Adepts move in to pressure the 3rd and punish the zerg for being out of position when the transfer to their image in the natural.

[image loading]
The adepts stutter step away from zerglings and then cast their image backwards providing an escape if the zerg continues to chase.

Overall impressions:

When fighting against protoss, it’s important to get an idea of how many adepts to expect so that you can prepare in time. Once the harass starts, it becomes very hard to stabilize, but setting up ahead of time makes a huge difference toward defending. Walls are incredibly important for defense. As the protoss player can always cancel the teleport, adepts near your base offer a near endless and risk-free way to scout. Pushing adepts away from your base will be necessary to deny vision of your tech path. In low numbers, adepts will beat most units, especially once they have the shield upgrade from the twilight council. Be wary of leaving your base with minimal map control as you may be inviting a large number of adepts to invade and give you nightmares. The adept succeeds at being useful and creating new ways for protoss to control the map, scout and harass but is a little too similar to the zealot in terms of what units it’s good/bad against. While there are a number of situations that the adept is better than the zealot in, the reverse is less true. The zealot fills few roles that aren’t already filled by the adept. So, while the adept is creating new and interesting interactions in all three matchups, it is largely doing so at the expense of the zealot.

Thanks to NighEnD for providing replays and protoss insight.

Writer: qxc
Editors: Zealously, DarkLordOlli
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TL+ Member
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3364 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-13 23:05:13
August 13 2015 23:02 GMT
#2
Nice. I find that Stalkers do decent against Adepts, if on even economy, since they can kite with longer range. I have done some counter 4 gate aggression with pylon wall off against the 2 gate Adept style, though it's pretty allin.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24193 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-13 23:06:34
August 13 2015 23:06 GMT
#3
The adept is a tricky equation. The unit appears far too dominant in early game with its anti light bonus, to the point it poisons PvP openings. On the other hand, once midgame is reached it's actually an interesting unit that solidifies gateway compositions a LOT. I REALLY think adepts should require a twilight council.
Aquila-
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
516 Posts
August 13 2015 23:16 GMT
#4
This post is pretty objective, summing up things that we already know. I would prefer to hear more of qxcs opinion about the state of the unit, should it be changed and if yes how? Does he think it is too strong? Personally I think adepts are too good early game TvP, some allins like warpprism 4 gate or voidray adept seem impossible to stop.
phantomfive
Profile Joined April 2010
Korea (South)404 Posts
August 13 2015 23:18 GMT
#5
It's lousy to push the zealot out like that. Maybe adepts should be zealots, but with an upgrade.
To ease another's heartache is to forget one's own - Lincoln
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2141 Posts
August 13 2015 23:19 GMT
#6
On August 14 2015 08:06 [PkF] Wire wrote:
The adept is a tricky equation. The unit appears far too dominant in early game with its anti light bonus, to the point it poisons PvP openings. On the other hand, once midgame is reached it's actually an interesting unit that solidifies gateway compositions a LOT. I REALLY think adepts should require a twilight council.

this is probably a very good solution
vibeo gane,
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24193 Posts
August 13 2015 23:53 GMT
#7
On August 14 2015 08:19 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 14 2015 08:06 [PkF] Wire wrote:
The adept is a tricky equation. The unit appears far too dominant in early game with its anti light bonus, to the point it poisons PvP openings. On the other hand, once midgame is reached it's actually an interesting unit that solidifies gateway compositions a LOT. I REALLY think adepts should require a twilight council.

this is probably a very good solution

Thanks, I hope this is considered at some point. It definitely takes hatch tech drops out of the question, without adepts there is no way you defend speedlings drops, but I don't think this is a bad thing, drops should be lair tech.
Beliskner
Profile Joined August 2015
111 Posts
August 14 2015 00:10 GMT
#8
On August 14 2015 08:06 [PkF] Wire wrote:
The adept is a tricky equation. The unit appears far too dominant in early game with its anti light bonus, to the point it poisons PvP openings. On the other hand, once midgame is reached it's actually an interesting unit that solidifies gateway compositions a LOT. I REALLY think adepts should require a twilight council.


Twilight council could work, but it feels like it's going to pidgin hole Protoss into twilight/blink/HT tech first even more. The adept is/should be essentially Protoss' roach/marauder it NEEDS to be available early game to support, solving the problem of fragile early game army.

I've heard the suggestion of removing 10 or 20 shield and moving it to the upgrade, that feels like a better solution but honestly it feels like the adept isn't THAT crazy good but people are just not fully adapted to playing against it. Let's not nerf it into the ground just because it's viable.
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
August 14 2015 00:14 GMT
#9
On August 14 2015 08:16 Aquila- wrote:
This post is pretty objective, summing up things that we already know. I would prefer to hear more of qxcs opinion about the state of the unit, should it be changed and if yes how? Does he think it is too strong? Personally I think adepts are too good early game TvP, some allins like warpprism 4 gate or voidray adept seem impossible to stop.


Agreed. I was hoping for some discussion of the unit's mechanical floor and ceiling, especially in light of the existing concern that Zealot harass is already too strong in the lategame considering its non-existent micro requirement.

Are Adepts more or less effective harass units in the lategame? Do they require substantially more micromanagement in performing this role? Can Blizzard rest easy knowing that they've solved A+move Protoss once and for all?
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
Loccstana
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States833 Posts
August 14 2015 00:25 GMT
#10
It quite obvious that the Adept is way too tanky for its cost, role, and tech level. I would like see an adept more in line with the DT in terms of HP. Its suppose to be a nimble harass unit that is capable of penetrating behind enemy lines, not a super tanky zealot substitute.
[url]http://i.imgur.com/lw2yN.jpg[/url]
TimeSpiral
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1010 Posts
August 14 2015 00:27 GMT
#11
IDEAS:

- Remove the ability to cancel the transfer, so there is some commitment in using the ability.
- Reduce vision radius of shade.
- Two-shotting marines just feels a little too good for a unit that has so much HP and is so fast. But what the hell do I know?
[G] Positioning, Formations, and Tactics: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187892
Beliskner
Profile Joined August 2015
111 Posts
August 14 2015 00:44 GMT
#12
On August 14 2015 09:25 Loccstana wrote:
It quite obvious that the Adept is way too tanky for its cost, role, and tech level. I would like see an adept more in line with the DT in terms of HP. Its suppose to be a nimble harass unit that is capable of penetrating behind enemy lines, not a super tanky zealot substitute.


Honestly, Protoss doesn't need another light harass unit. They need a tanky unit from the gateway, adepts fill a hole that has been sorely missing.
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-14 00:51:28
August 14 2015 00:49 GMT
#13
On August 14 2015 09:44 Beliskner wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 14 2015 09:25 Loccstana wrote:
It quite obvious that the Adept is way too tanky for its cost, role, and tech level. I would like see an adept more in line with the DT in terms of HP. Its suppose to be a nimble harass unit that is capable of penetrating behind enemy lines, not a super tanky zealot substitute.


Honestly, Protoss doesn't need another light harass unit. They need a tanky unit from the gateway, adepts fill a hole that has been sorely missing.


The Zealot isn't tanky?

Obviously rhetorical question is obviously rhetorical. I just want to find out what you actually meant.
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
TheWinks
Profile Joined July 2011
United States572 Posts
August 14 2015 00:50 GMT
#14
On August 14 2015 09:27 TimeSpiral wrote:
- Remove the ability to cancel the transfer, so there is some commitment in using the ability.

This is how it was at the beginning and how it should be now.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
August 14 2015 01:01 GMT
#15
On August 14 2015 09:44 Beliskner wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 14 2015 09:25 Loccstana wrote:
It quite obvious that the Adept is way too tanky for its cost, role, and tech level. I would like see an adept more in line with the DT in terms of HP. Its suppose to be a nimble harass unit that is capable of penetrating behind enemy lines, not a super tanky zealot substitute.


Honestly, Protoss doesn't need another light harass unit. They need a tanky unit from the gateway, adepts fill a hole that has been sorely missing.


Isn't that exaclty what the zealot is? The cheapest way to accumulate hitpoints in the game!
Even if we talk splash and armor type, the adept is pretty much the exact same thing as the zealot, just more exposed to EMP.

The thing with the adept is that it is superstrong vs light, which means nearly everything early. Then it starts falling off because tanking doesn't stack as well as dps-ing. Then it has an upgrade that is superpowerful on paper - and doesn't help the unit with any of its problems, i.e. low dps against in many scenarios, no antiair, no good movement speed to actually run around.

The gameplay against the adept feels to me like early you just can't really do anything. You just somehow try to get by with whatever you can while building up your setup. Then you get some vital technologies and the adept becomes pretty pointless because you are just not building what it is good against. I guess the way of a well-designed low tier unit is that it fades out and makes room for other units to shine, but I think the drop-off for adepts can be too hard due to the extreme damage discreptancy between vs light and vs armored.
sc2chronic
Profile Joined May 2012
United States777 Posts
August 14 2015 01:02 GMT
#16
I didn't actually read the article, but I 100% agree with what qxc said.
terrible, terrible, damage
Beliskner
Profile Joined August 2015
111 Posts
August 14 2015 01:19 GMT
#17
On August 14 2015 09:49 pure.Wasted wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 14 2015 09:44 Beliskner wrote:
On August 14 2015 09:25 Loccstana wrote:
It quite obvious that the Adept is way too tanky for its cost, role, and tech level. I would like see an adept more in line with the DT in terms of HP. Its suppose to be a nimble harass unit that is capable of penetrating behind enemy lines, not a super tanky zealot substitute.


Honestly, Protoss doesn't need another light harass unit. They need a tanky unit from the gateway, adepts fill a hole that has been sorely missing.


The Zealot isn't tanky?

Obviously rhetorical question is obviously rhetorical. I just want to find out what you actually meant.



Unfortunately because of it's kiteability it's really more of just a meat shield, yes there is overlap between the two but they're not mutually exclusive. The zealot is more like the ling, if they can get up on the army/surround they are good, soaking up the shots and the adept like the roach, ranged tanking unit.

Isn't that exaclty what the zealot is? The cheapest way to accumulate hitpoints in the game!
Even if we talk splash and armor type, the adept is pretty much the exact same thing as the zealot, just more exposed to EMP.


So like above, only if you think about it in meat shield terms, but unlike the zealot the adept cannot be nullified by being kited to death. Which was the problem with early game gateway army vs Terran, your zealots get stim kited to death, you don't have much to fall back on.
Loccstana
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States833 Posts
August 14 2015 01:33 GMT
#18
What if they made the phase ability more like stim? Everytime the adept creates a shadow, it would use up 20 shield points? I think that would be a very interesting mechanic.
[url]http://i.imgur.com/lw2yN.jpg[/url]
weikor
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Austria580 Posts
August 14 2015 02:05 GMT
#19
Well, also consider that the next patch will throw out most timings we know are in the game.
Without chronoboost, early game adepts sound much less threatening.

Also the warp prism change with the (pylon power), which im not sure if its coming would fix many all ins.

The adept is allowed to be very strong, people just need to get used to dealing with it more. Its the first unit that doesnt seem like it pays a crazy warpgate tax.

Zerglings beat them cost effectively in lower numbers, they cant shoot air and they are very beatable with many unit compositions.
MoonyD
Profile Joined December 2013
Australia191 Posts
August 14 2015 02:20 GMT
#20
Maybe I'm over-simplying the solution when I say this, but couldn't there be a change added in so that the adept is less effective vs shield unit? This way we won't have to put up with the constant/bland/boring 2 gate adept openings in PvP.

As far as PvT and PvZ is concerned, I do agree the adept is very strong early game. However as the game progresses, it become less and less effective as a core army unit. So I don't think it's a big issue. And doing run-bys/harass with Adepts are still less cost efficient than zealots anyways because they cost gas.
The world wants to be deceived
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