EPTqxc's thoughts: Disruptor in Review - Page 2
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[PkF] Wire
France24235 Posts
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Athenau
570 Posts
The fundamental design is sound, IMO. | ||
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Magnifico
1958 Posts
On June 18 2015 04:41 Athenau wrote: The disruptor just needs to be less binary David Kim said that this particular problem is being addressed internally at the moment. From my very personal perspective, the disruptor is just too difficult to use. I have 130 apm, ok micro for my level, and I'm having a really hard time microing this unit properly. It's by far the hardest protoss unit to play with. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On June 18 2015 04:34 [PkF] Wire wrote: You nearly convinced me the disruptor was interesting. I still think the colossus should either be removed from the game or made into something useful again. I think Colossus should be changed from generic splash unit to a concentrated splash damage. So instead of two beams doing two full swipes, the two beams colliding over one unit, in the middle, with slower animation Then the damage and cooldown moved back to the initial WoL levels, feeling like a more "siege" unit. We have enough "anti-minions" (minor units) splash. A colossus like that will be optimized for tactical focus firing a bit more than the actual ones, but at the same time weaker vs splits. I can't concieve a colossus that is not able to 1 shot Zerglings at +3. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
On June 18 2015 04:34 [PkF] Wire wrote: You nearly convinced me the disruptor was interesting. I still think the colossus should either be removed from the game or made into something useful again. The Colossus should be removed, it's a garbage no skill unit that has no place in the higher skill cap LOTV. I am kind of a critic of the binary "all or nothing" approach with Purification Nova but the Warp Prism drop thing does add a hefty lair of micro management and skill cap potential which is so desperately what Protoss needs as a race (i.e. Protoss needs a unit that in the hands of Parting it looks completely different then a high masters player which is where the Colossus falls on it's damn face design wise) Disruptor needs a tweak, I think it should cost a bit less, do a bit less damage so it's not broken against immobile units like the Lurker and Siege Tank, but have a more reliable escape mechanism. Perhaps still have invulnerability when PN is activated, but movement speed remains the same until the blast goes off, as soon as the blast goes off, the speed boost applies, that way armies have more of a chance to dodge but the unit itself has a greater chance to escape with good control. I don't know, the unit is a step or two away from being the unit that Protoss deserves, but the lack of escape without Warp Prism is the biggest thing holding it back. | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
On June 18 2015 05:25 Beelzebub1 wrote: The Colossus should be removed, it's a garbage no skill unit that has no place in the higher skill cap LOTV. I am kind of a critic of the binary "all or nothing" approach with Purification Nova but the Warp Prism drop thing does add a hefty lair of micro management and skill cap potential which is so desperately what Protoss needs as a race (i.e. Protoss needs a unit that in the hands of Parting it looks completely different then a high masters player which is where the Colossus falls on it's damn face design wise) Disruptor needs a tweak, I think it should cost a bit less, do a bit less damage so it's not broken against immobile units like the Lurker and Siege Tank, but have a more reliable escape mechanism. Perhaps still have invulnerability when PN is activated, but movement speed remains the same until the blast goes off, as soon as the blast goes off, the speed boost applies, that way armies have more of a chance to dodge but the unit itself has a greater chance to escape with good control. I don't know, the unit is a step or two away from being the unit that Protoss deserves, but the lack of escape without Warp Prism is the biggest thing holding it back. Being able to look like a different unit in the hands of Parting is exactly why the support via Warp Prism makes this exactly the unit Protoss has needed. I mean are we gonna nerf Banelings/Widow Mine splash at this point too? Why shouldn't this unit do a shitload of damage when you don't micro against it? We need to stop being pussies and get better, instead of whining when shit gets hard. That's exactly why SC2 is in the boring state it's in. I want things to be AWESOME, not boring. | ||
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vayuu
Canada66 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2655 Posts
The disruptor is too good against ground mech, hellbats and thors are too slow, and you will never have enough medivacs to lift up your tanks. The biggest problem of course besides the all-or-nothing nature of the disruptor is the need for mech to stay together so much, since positional play is so weak you either have all your army together and lose because is one tight ball, or you spread it and then you lose because tanks are shit. But right now its hard to say if the problem is with mech, with the disruptor or with something else, so it requires more analysis. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On June 18 2015 03:03 prplhz wrote: from the description this sounds a lot like the reaver I was thinking the same thing and notice how you can never attack scarabs. hm! Reebus re-branded. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
1. why is the disruptor so expensive? 2. why not a damage gradient? 3. why doesn't at least forcefield block it? | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24235 Posts
On June 18 2015 06:24 Grumbels wrote: 3. why doesn't at least forcefield block it? A question that leaves me mesmerized too. Same for adepts shades by the way. I just don't understand ; those two simple changes would make PvP a thousand times better. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3459 Posts
On June 18 2015 07:20 [PkF] Wire wrote: A question that leaves me mesmerized too. Same for adepts shades by the way. I just don't understand ; those two simple changes would make PvP a thousand times better. I'm glad they don't, because using these units together with Forcefields kind of blows my mind in my little realm of possible tactics you can pull off as a Protoss player. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 18 2015 06:24 Grumbels wrote: I'll repeat my questions from the earlier thread, for which I'm curious about the answers. 1. why is the disruptor so expensive? 2. why not a damage gradient? 3. why doesn't at least forcefield block it? 1. 2. I think these 2 points go hand in hand, the disruptor is a unit that has to have a good burst efficiency to warrant its cost (or vice versa :D). And I honestly think damage gradients on AoE zones (which are already quite small) are always underwhelming. It's good that you can one-shot most small units no matter where they are in the disruptor's AoE. For example, if you didn't one-shot marines in the whole area, you would end up with a useless unit in cooldown and still a lot of DPS left on the other side after your release, it would deincentivize micro for the defensive player. 3. Good point, I didn't even know it didn't work haha. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
I dislike the invulnerability on principle. It should not be capable of running into a 200/200 clump of Marines or Zerglings, doing its thing, and then getting away. Nothing should. Just give it a flat armor boost that is sufficient when the Protoss engages cost-effectively (whatever that is judged to be - one Disruptor versus 15 Marines? 20? I don't care), but not sufficient if the engagement is less cost-effective than that, and the Disruptor may die before its attack even activates. I don't for the life of me understand how Blizzard didn't arrive at this conclusion themselves. There is literally no difference when the Protoss takes reasonable engagements, but bad engagements are appropriately punished as opposed to providing a sliver of a chance to a player who deserves none, and mech's high single-target damage can bypass the armor boost and deal with the Disruptor. This is just an obviously superior way to design the unit. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 18 2015 11:20 pure.Wasted wrote: I like the article and I like the Disruptor. I dislike the invulnerability on principle. It should not be capable of running into a 200/200 clump of Marines or Zerglings, doing its thing, and then getting away. Nothing should. Just give it a flat armor boost that is sufficient when the Protoss engages cost-effectively (whatever that is judged to be - one Disruptor versus 15 Marines? 20? I don't care), but not sufficient if the engagement is less cost-effective than that, and the Disruptor may die before its attack even activates. I don't for the life of me understand how Blizzard didn't arrive at this conclusion themselves. There is literally no difference when the Protoss takes reasonable engagements, but bad engagements are appropriately punished as opposed to providing a sliver of a chance to a player who deserves none, and mech's high single-target damage can bypass the armor boost and deal with the Disruptor. This is just an obviously superior way to design the unit. This would be a good idea to test, especially while in beta, because if it does work out as you suggest then it would obviously be superior. | ||
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MoonyD
Australia191 Posts
I agree with previous comments about the fact that forcefields should at least block adepts. It seems silly that the shade can move past forcefields on the ramp. If disruptors can go through forcefields they should at least break them the same way as it does with a colossus going through forcefields. Going through forcefields is just silly. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On June 18 2015 12:25 MoonyD wrote: As it stands the Disruptor is pretty much an useless unit in the PvT matchup. The fact terran can just load up everything and take 0 damage makes it super easy to dodge it. I think the Disruptor should do at least a bit of damage versus air. I mean if Protoss goes into Disruptors and Zerg goes for mass mutas, it becomes almost impossible for Protoss to defend their bases after investing so much into what is 'useless tech' vs air. I'm not going to touch PvZ because I know nothing about it, but why can't Stalkers shoot the Medivacs out of the air once the Terran attempts to GTFO? Get your Stalkers ready for a flank, bring in the Disruptor, and then blink under the Medivacs and pick a couple of them off for free. There might be a good reason why this isn't possible, I'm genuinely curious. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On June 18 2015 02:59 DinoMight wrote: It's a 300 gas single melee range unit. It needs to be able to get in and do damage. Unless it's invulnerable on its way in it will just die immediately. I agree with you on the 300 gas melee unit that needs to be able to move through the battlefield. But, I think the problem a lot of people have is with the "invulnerability" combined with a Warp Prism, which makes the unit nigh impossible to kill. People don't like the idea of 2 Disruptors running though and amoving army (I mean, they are quite hard to spot, especially on the current (TERRIBLE) minimap) and essentially destroying it instantaneously. Could a massive shield work too? I would like to experiment with that. A 300 HP Shield (preferably with the effect the Immortal should have had; all damage over 10 is reduced max(10 ; 0.5*damage) to 10 or halved, whichever is higher) for the Disruptor. What this means is that the Disruptor has approximately 500 HP to play with when it rushes in AND a defensive mechanic upon activating the Nova. The Nova hits in 4(?) seconds, the shields are removed after 8 seconds (maybe a slight increase in movement speed during this cooldown period as well). Is that enough of a defense to last through a fight? I think it is. It is however not enough to rush into an army head-on. Additionally, EMP can now hurt them as well. This is obviously me playing with some numbers, but what do you guys think? | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On June 18 2015 12:38 pure.Wasted wrote: I'm not going to touch PvZ because I know nothing about it, but why can't Stalkers shoot the Medivacs out of the air once the Terran attempts to GTFO? Get your Stalkers ready for a flank, bring in the Disruptor, and then blink under the Medivacs and pick a couple of them off for free. There might be a good reason why this isn't possible, I'm genuinely curious. In theory it's possible, but due to Friendly Fire you cannot jump under the disruptors (Terran can just unload and each marauders one-shots a stalker). Flanking their retreat path is a possibility, but you have to be very careful of reinforcements, Terran unloading, and being picked off / mispositioned for an engagement because your army is essentially split into two with the Terran army in the center (the Terran army will usually win the fight on either side). It is possible but also very risky, is what I would say. | ||
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Veluvian
Bulgaria256 Posts
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