EPTit seems that they are again throwing random stuff without knowing what to do
Legacy of the Void Beta Patch 2.5.2 - Page 22
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Garmer
1286 Posts
it seems that they are again throwing random stuff without knowing what to do | ||
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w3jjjj
United States760 Posts
With shared upgrades, terran air transition is way more powerful than zerg and protoss air transition. One can argue that terran mech ground needs air transition more than zerg or protoss ground need air transition, but that means the problem lies with mech geound balance. | ||
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TokO
Norway577 Posts
On June 04 2015 00:14 Hider wrote: Past the early game, you see Vikings and tanks in tvt along with bio (occationally banshee). You see Mines and bio in TvZ. You See Vikings vs Colossus and Mines vs toss. I don't know how you think this is such huge diversification. I see protoss players and zerg players mixing more units togeter. We're obviously talking about different games, so there's no point to arguing. I guess you're right! | ||
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Hider
Denmark9443 Posts
The way to fix ground mech is to buff ground mech, not to make air transition easier with shared upgrades Yes that's true. Mech should have a strong core compositions through tanks/thors/hellions. But that doesn't imply that the occational mech/air game can't be interesting as well, and one way to encourage more diversity is through shared upgrades. The problem is that people assume that tanks can't get a buff if shared upgrades exist in the game. Like they are mutually exclusive for some reason. But that's only the case with a dumb OP PDD. Blizzard has already stated that they are working on a new ability as replacement for PDD. | ||
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CannonsNCarriers
United States638 Posts
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Magnifico
1958 Posts
On June 03 2015 22:11 TokO wrote: I think people have missed the fact that there is a dynamic between That's not the problem. The problem is that most people aren't able to understand the concept of asymmetrical races. | ||
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The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
On June 04 2015 02:35 CannonsNCarriers wrote: Remember, when the Cyclone shot up for free and early, ground mech was in fact the go to comp. Hellion/Cyclone was the dominant build when mech had mobile and effective single target AA. Yeah and people couldn't stand the idea of a mobile mech that can move out before being maxed out on 3 base turtle or could not be cheesed out by a single proxy oracle without blindly commuting to a building +turrets | ||
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HallofPain4444
Japan71 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On June 04 2015 19:23 HallofPain4444 wrote: I think DK removed AA for earlly game cyclone because he wants Banshee opening to be viable. Banshee would be the worst unit in the game by far if its only use as TvT opener is taken away. Cyclone AA was taken away because it hard-countered almost all of the opening air units from each race. Mothership Core, Banshees, Oracles, Mutas and Void Rays are just wiped out before they can do anything and even if you manage to catch Cyclones off-guard they will trade very very efficiently. | ||
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dust7
199 Posts
Another indicator that Blizzard is pushing LotV out with minimal resources and quality control and will then move on to games that make money. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On June 04 2015 21:10 dust7 wrote: How long could it possibly take them to fix the liberator bug? How are they expecting us to test a unit when it is working completely different than intended? How could they release the unit when the bug is even visible in the unit's official introduction video? Another indicator that Blizzard is pushing LotV out with minimal resources and quality control and will then move on to games that make money. They don't seem to care at all about LotV atm. Mind you, I don't care anymore too. So far every patch has been hugely underwhelming, borderline irrelevant, when not straight detrimental. I have lost hope. At this point I'm pretty sure the game will be far worse than HotS -if they don't drastically change their approach there is zero way they can salvage a game built around attacker's advantage and "one mistake costs the game" units-, but the magnitude of the aggravation remains unknown. On June 04 2015 03:20 Tiaraju9 wrote: That's not the problem. The problem is that most people aren't able to understand the concept of asymmetrical races. And incompleteness. I'm fed up with people saying mech needs this or that. Styles should have weaknesses that you have to get around (be it lack of mobility, lack of map control, air vulnerability, susceptibility to AOE damage...). Mech/air in LotV is going to be so boring and broken (everything is done to make it perfectly all around) everyone will cry for bio after a month. | ||
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HallofPain4444
Japan71 Posts
1. takes forever to siege up 2. takes an eternity to unsiege 3. only can shoot at a small limited area 4. high single target damage but no AOE 5. needs 200/200 research before you can even get that AG 6. most important of all, can't even shoot at buildings lol | ||
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dust7
199 Posts
On June 04 2015 23:09 HallofPain4444 wrote: Liberator is only OP for now, after the bug fix they'd be total trash. Who needs a unit that 1. takes forever to siege up 2. takes an eternity to unsiege 3. only can shoot at a small limited area 4. high single target damage but no AOE 5. needs 200/200 research before you can even get that AG 6. most important of all, can't even shoot at buildings lol Yes, they should probably declare the bug a feature and balance the unit by tweaking other stats. The way it is working right now is rather interesting. Blizzard, what's your take on this? TALK TO US. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On June 04 2015 19:23 HallofPain4444 wrote: I think DK removed AA for earlly game cyclone because he wants Banshee opening to be viable. Banshee would be the worst unit in the game by far if its only use as TvT opener is taken away. I think that Cyclones can be polished a lot while retaining AA early game (very limited). One problem was that tagging air units early game was insanely broken as it cut most of the counters Cyclones could have... What about making AA worse or simply, not allowing Cyclones to "tag" air units until upgrade? I mean, able to attack air units within 5 range but not able to track them. Marines are also 5 range. That would mean micro battles in early PvT/TvP and easy to open mech with some AA but with very limited range. Not a bad option. Gives space to rework a bit VoidRays / Oracles and gives mech a limited AA option. Also cyclone damage could be tuned down a bit to be X+bonus vs armor to balance it. There is also very good way of making banshees good in TvP, and it's very simple: remove light tag. Phoenixes move faster than banshees anyways and can move and shoot at the same time, so it's a realtively easy kill (like Vikings vs Banshee in TvT). Queens and banes have no attribute just for this same reason, making them harder to counter since they take no bonus damage from any source (Except Queens from Ghost snipe). Zerg has no unit that deals bonus damage vs light air and Terran only has Thors with bonus damage vs light, but It's rare to see mass Banshee in TvT since Vikings and now Liberators can just trash them. Balance team seems to be short on thinking. Could we officialy suggest and test ideas like this? | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3506 Posts
On June 04 2015 21:10 dust7 wrote: How long could it possibly take them to fix the liberator bug? How are they expecting us to test a unit when it is working completely different than intended? How could they release the unit when the bug is even visible in the unit's official introduction video? Another indicator that Blizzard is pushing LotV out with minimal resources and quality control and will then move on to games that make money. Remember the Phoenix lift bug? wasn't even Beta and it took them forever to fix. | ||
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HallofPain4444
Japan71 Posts
Mech : Cyclone/Hellion(Hellbat) is an ok composition in TvP and TvZ. Tanks are still somewhat underpowered, Thors are abusolute trash, WM does not have very good synergy with pure mech comp. Air : Most the air units are just pure trash on their own. Liberator has its role as anti-Muta and that's about it. Banshees are not good enough as harrass unit other than TvT and pure dead weight in late game.(OMFG I still can't believe this thing is actually 3 food) Vikings and BCs are pure dead weight. Raven spells are worthless like fuck.(can we please trade the Raven for Viper LOL) | ||
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Railgan
Switzerland1509 Posts
On June 05 2015 00:35 HallofPain4444 wrote: Yeah only if DK would listen. He wants to make T Mech and T air viable composition on its own, but even a fool can tell it ain't happening. Mech : Cyclone/Hellion(Hellbat) is an ok composition in TvP and TvZ. Tanks are still somewhat underpowered, Thors are abusolute trash, WM does not have very good synergy with pure mech comp. Air : Most the air units are just pure trash on their own. Liberator has its role as anti-Muta and that's about it. Banshees are not good enough as harrass unit other than TvT and pure dead weight in late game.(OMFG I still can't believe this thing is actually 3 food) Vikings and BCs are pure dead weight. Raven spells are worthless like fuck.(can we please trade the Raven for Viper LOL) When did he say he wants Air and Ground to be two different compositions? You are just spitting nonsense | ||
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HallofPain4444
Japan71 Posts
With the updates to the Starport units as well as the Liberator add, we felt the Starport is rounded enough to split into two different upgrades again. This will create more specific choices in unit composition and strategies in Terran matchups. Our hope here is that we see a good variety in the Barracks/Factory/Starport units be used in various matchups and situations. That's what DK said. Obiviously he doesn't want u to mix up ground mech and air. Learn how to read before calling other ppl nonsense. | ||
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CannonsNCarriers
United States638 Posts
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purakushi
United States3302 Posts
Seems like everything is locked in for LotV in regards to design (sadly), but we need: - matchmaking - arcade/chat revamp (not just a copy paste of Heroes') | ||
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