EPTThe Effect of the 60-Shield Zealot in PvZ - Page 3
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ZombieFrog
United States87 Posts
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DeadByDawn
United Kingdom476 Posts
On April 25 2015 08:00 xxjcdentonxx wrote: Nice try, OP. The changes to warp-gate tech are that is takes 8 seconds and units take more damage when inbound. Neither change affects defence in a way that can't be adjusted for with decision making. I agree with this. When defending you have a huge choice of where to warp in, sure it might take you longer to get to the enemy than warping in their face but that is how it should be. It is better for Toss than for Terran. Offensively if I just fly into stalkers and zealots and try to drop, then all my units die. If the enemy is in my production line all my units die as they rally out of the buildings. At least as Toss you can pop out your units in safe locations as long as you have a pylon. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16968 Posts
On April 22 2015 16:06 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: So with Warpgate weakened by warp-in time and 200% damage dealt, it would only make sense for the Protoss core to be strengthened in compensation. That way, the Protoss loses some offensive capability since proxy pylons lose their strength, but can still defend adequately. i agree. i want it to go back to the brood war days when my tiny group of marines were scared shitless of a group of zealots. I want to see both the Zealot and Stalker buffed.. and if they have to further weaken the Warp Gate mechanic to justify the buff.. then so be it. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13990 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On April 25 2015 13:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i agree. i want it to go back to the brood war days when my tiny group of marines were scared shitless of a group of zealots. I want to see both the Zealot and Stalker buffed.. and if they have to further weaken the Warp Gate mechanic to justify the buff.. then so be it. Eh.... Marines wrecked gateway units in BW. However, only a timing attack was viable as protoss AOE hardcountered bio. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
I'm 99% on this, Zealots should move fairly faster than they do now. That's why I think that old BW upgrade was far better. Sadly, Charge is quite needed in any of its possible redesigns, because of Concussive shells and their 50% slow. Otherwise, Zealots would be just even more trash in TvP. Marauder's slow is what basically makes TvZ Bio viable and quite balanced, so we can't just remove it from the game. However, If leg enchancements granted slow immunity, that could work. If not, I think that maybe what we need is a different type of mechanic, in a redesigned Charge. Actual Charge is an autocast speed buff that combines with the basic attack acquistion (Augment ability) so it basically ensures guaranteed hit, and autosourrounds on AI. It removes control from the player and removes possible micro to display. It can only be used offensively, and base speed of Zealots is quite low (2.75) to compensate for the big autobuff the ability provides. However, the relatively low base speed of upgraded Zealots is a quite a punishement defensively (slow retreats, specially vs bio) and helps "Deathball" formations (as Zealots get absorbed in the Stalker/Sentry ball when moving, instead of being in front). Also, it removes micro control from the player and makes Zealot chasings and retreats quite inneficients, specially vs bio or on creep. IMAO, a "Charge" mechanic should be a tactical ability to use, not an autobuff. When an army orders a charge movement, specially thinking in meele tactics (medieval fights, for example) front troops sprint. Front troops are usually light and more mobile than other type of units. A stim-like buff with more cooldown, with forced linear movement, or some targeted ability (charge at point) makes more sense design-wise than an autocast buff with guaranteed and surround AI. It could be aslo a very interesting buff defensively since it might be used for retreats, increasing their cost-efficiency without increasing damage or countering. I think we should combine Leg Enchancements with a reworked, manual Charge mechanic that brings control to the player, skill to use, and remove the "automicro" and "guaranteed hit" design from Charge. Player control, skill, versatility. Just forcing it to be manual use, shorter duration, and linear movement (removes autosurround) would be a very interesting upgrade of Charge's design. Let's try it that way. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
Can't run tests this weekend due to work, I might be able to do it all next week though. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On April 25 2015 21:27 Hider wrote: Eh.... Marines wrecked gateway units in BW. However, only a timing attack was viable as protoss AOE hardcountered bio. Well it would have been just a fast-mo version of early game Zealot vs. Marine in PvT right now, right? They move at the same speed, you split the Marines and run around, etc. Dragoons didn't do shit damage, and HT's are half the reason mech was always preferable to bio. Stalkers outrange more easily than Dragoons (competent AI) and shoot faster, so Marauders are needed to compensate. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
On April 26 2015 02:22 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I was also thinking, what if the Adept wasn't a thing, and its spell replaced Charge on Zealots? For a shorter time. Like 1 second, but you hit F, click behind the MMM ball or into the middle of the hydralisks, Zealot ghosts travel at... let's say speed 5, then a second later the Zealots warp and do their damage. I feel that Adepts' spell would actually have more use as such in a game where Zealots didn't have vanilla Charge to allow them to just zoom in, auto-surround, and get a free hit off. You'd use the Adepts to surround the MMMM or the Roach-Ravager-Hydra with their super fast shade and try to hold them into place like Speedlings do in ZvT, and then have your newly quickened Zealots march in towards the center mass of the army at stim speed, activating their manual-cast Charge ability to shrug off the slow effect of Marauders' conc shells. | ||
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StatixEx
United Kingdom779 Posts
i personally believe they increased the damage done to warping in units so you cant just pylon up warp in 10 units in the opps face . . now u might just have to pull back a bit giving the opp that chance to so something about ur proxy remax with pretty tanky units as it is. The other two races at least have to rally, i know this is a mechanic of ur race but come on . . . now u want to make ur already tanky units more tanky? sorry if ive missed something here but it wasnt hard for u toss to warp into a mieral line with 20 zealots late game as a wall . . what can anyone do about that | ||
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