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Patch 9.20: Live on Oct. 9, 2019
Team Fight Tactics Patch 9.20 Live on Oct. 9, 2019
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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Some pretty big changes to Viktor. I can see him cropping up again. All I understood from Shaco changes is that he's back on my permaban list.
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I really really dont like the changes to Viktor's shield. I liked how after the Ryze change his shield was unique in that it scaled off a resource pool instead of normal AD/AP/HP. I do understand they probably had to pull some power somewhere, but I really dont like it was his shield.
Isn't the W change kind of a nerf? Slows doesn't stack so upgrading basically does nothing and he just lost the pull because reasons or am I missing something?
Yay for Shaco buffs. Now I get to never see the champion ever again. :D
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Its good that they hit Victor's shield imo, I hate when long range mega damage champion have more than one mean to interrupt/avoid dives (cough cough lux xD). Range - Significant Damage - Defense Mechanisms, pick two of these, not all three.
Regarding Shaco,, I really despise the idea of pre 6 invisible champion to be allowed in the jungle, Just make Shaco's Q get invisibility on its max upgrade or after 6 and then they can buff his other aspects as necessary
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On October 09 2019 18:05 Jek wrote:
I really really dont like the changes to Viktor's shield. I liked how after the Ryze change his shield was unique in that it scaled off a resource pool instead of normal AD/AP/HP. I do understand they probably had to pull some power somewhere, but I really dont like it was his shield.
Isn't the W change kind of a nerf? Slows doesn't stack so upgrading basically does nothing and he just lost the pull because reasons or am I missing something?
Yay for Shaco buffs. Now I get to never see the champion ever again. :D
i think the w change is intended to allow viktor to go other items other than rylai. lich bane/morellos/liandry after his hextech upgrades would give him stronger spikes quicker so...
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From what I've seen on streams, new Garen seems incredibly hit or miss. He feels a bit like a weaker Cho with his true damage ultimate.
Shaco support is turning into a real thing. Before it was niche, now it feels viable.
Just the thing Viktor needed, more damage lol. Are these changes going to be at Worlds?
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On October 10 2019 17:32 DarkCore wrote:
From what I've seen on streams, new Garen seems incredibly hit or miss. He feels a bit like a weaker Cho with his true damage ultimate.
Shaco support is turning into a real thing. Before it was niche, now it feels viable.
Just the thing Viktor needed, more damage lol. Are these changes going to be at Worlds?
noo, whole worlds is on 9.19
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On October 10 2019 15:35 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2019 18:05 Jek wrote:
I really really dont like the changes to Viktor's shield. I liked how after the Ryze change his shield was unique in that it scaled off a resource pool instead of normal AD/AP/HP. I do understand they probably had to pull some power somewhere, but I really dont like it was his shield.
Isn't the W change kind of a nerf? Slows doesn't stack so upgrading basically does nothing and he just lost the pull because reasons or am I missing something?
Yay for Shaco buffs. Now I get to never see the champion ever again. :D i think the w change is intended to allow viktor to go other items other than rylai. lich bane/morellos/liandry after his hextech upgrades would give him stronger spikes quicker so...
Ooooooh. Thought it was just enemies inside his W that would be slowed by any direct hits (including from allies). Missed it's essentially just a passive for his Q and E now. Guess I should actually hit up the practice tool before commenting on ability changes.
DO YOU KNOW THE MUFFIN MAN?Chaos Storm will continue chasing champions even after Viktor dies
This buff/bugfix is huge.
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It only took them... since his release, to do it? That was one of the things I'd be bitched at the longest, along with their coding of Vi's ult.
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Chaos storm following enemy when dying is strange to me... I thought Viktor controlled the thing. If he dies he can't control it, simple.
If Annie dies with Tibbers up, because it's a magical thing and he cares about her, he becomes enraged at her killer, logical.
I'm not against the change from a game mechanics standpoint, but more from a logical standpoint..
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On October 10 2019 22:06 Uldridge wrote:
Chaos storm following enemy when dying is strange to me... I thought Viktor controlled the thing. If he dies he can't control it, simple.
If Annie dies with Tibbers up, because it's a magical thing and he cares about her, he becomes enraged at her killer, logical.
I'm not against the change from a game mechanics standpoint, but more from a logical standpoint..
idk you'd thinkn this genius would be able to develop a heat-seeking storm.
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Oh shit I hadn't considered his intelligence at all.. guess you need to be quite smart to develop your own third, albeit robotic, arm.
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Whats with this lvl 3 shaco gank that everybody is complaining about, but I've never met yet? Is he really able to gank lvl 1 lane while being 3? It sounds pretty disgusting
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Pretty sure that was also possible before the early jungle xp nerfs
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Chaos Storm didn't even keep going in the direction you set it to move, it immediately stopped on death and stood there. It was very frustrating, what with all the little bugs and annoyances with the Storm not always switching directions when you asked for it, or speeding up in a (seemingly) random directions if you inputted too many direction changes opposite each other in a short time, or... etc.
To be fair a bunch of them were fixed after some time, but man was his ult clunky before the rework.
The fact that it now moves over terrain is a big buff though.
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On October 11 2019 19:42 M2 wrote:
Whats with this lvl 3 shaco gank that everybody is complaining about, but I've never met yet? Is he really able to gank lvl 1 lane while being 3? It sounds pretty disgusting
His traps can now solo the raptor camp so all he needs to do is kill red and then partially clear krugs to hit 3. With a standard leash second wave have barely even hit the lane before he can gank it.
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On October 10 2019 17:50 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2019 17:32 DarkCore wrote:
From what I've seen on streams, new Garen seems incredibly hit or miss. He feels a bit like a weaker Cho with his true damage ultimate.
Shaco support is turning into a real thing. Before it was niche, now it feels viable.
Just the thing Viktor needed, more damage lol. Are these changes going to be at Worlds? noo, whole worlds is on 9.19
Thank god, it feels like Riot is experimenting again, a lot of very big changes and champions getting overboard buffs, pre season seems to have started. Only crazy broken permaban thing at Worlds is going to be Panth, followed by all the other champions we've moaned about in other threads.
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Mastery: The map should offer more details to play around in both the baseline experience and the not-every-game circumstances we’re creating. Much of SR’s mastery is currently macro-oriented (eg. rotations, objective trading), and we want terrain to support more opportunity for in-combat playmaking.
Something tells me they'll introduce slowing or resist increasing zones instead, or anything else that would actually discourage playmaking.
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"Season 2020 will challenge you to adapt your playstyle across a variety of environmental changes from game to game, taking your mastery of Summoner’s Rift to new heights."
Really Riot? I cannot see this work out well.
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Ugh, they really are continuing that "season 2019" shit with "season 2020".
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Thing I dislike about these environmental factors is that they really hard favour ranged / mobile champs.
Gimme a dark swarm zone where ranged attacks don't breach the shroud and non mobile Champions get a damage boost or something.
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Elemental drakes emenate bonuses on the map/river. For example air drake gives global ms, up until someone harvests it. Could be cool, no?
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I thought plants sounded dumb and I overall like them so I’ll wait and see as dumb as this sounds on paper
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or maybe they will go something like Dota's day/night cycle, but of course it will be something else, what about weather? Rain, Snow, Wind etc,,?
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On October 12 2019 06:19 Uldridge wrote:
Elemental drakes emenate bonuses on the map/river. For example air drake gives global ms, up until someone harvests it. Could be cool, no?
Too much RNG with drakes as it is.
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Appears to be fake, and honestly there have been few leaks in League over the years.
On October 13 2019 04:52 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2019 06:19 Uldridge wrote:
Elemental drakes emenate bonuses on the map/river. For example air drake gives global ms, up until someone harvests it. Could be cool, no? Too much RNG with drakes as it is.
Problem with that idea is that you might end up with teams trying their hardest to deny dragon all game long since it benefits them more than the opponent. It seems an interesting concept but I think it might not be balanceable.
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If anyone remembers that Odyssey event, I think the terrain stuff will mimic some of the maps on there. Like slow zones and lava zones that pop up and grow.
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Real talk I can't believe that someone at Riot okay'ed new Garen
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New Garen is beyond disgusting.
His spin wins too hard now.
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There's no world where GAREN should be the highest winrate champion in any lane
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https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/preseason-2020-gameplay-rise-elements
Drake Souls look OP.
Lane Alcoves just allow ranged / mobile champs to further hard abuse melee champs. Unlucky.
Not a fan of the way the 3rd spawning dragon is changing the map. Seems impossible to balance with the way some champs interact with terrain; for example, apparently every 25% of games Rengar/Rango become unstoppable, or will suck in 75% of games.
All jungle camps have timers now. Hate it.
Increasing all minion XP and decreasing jungle XP. Double hate it. I dont think Riot undertsands this will just exacerbate the current junglers hard ganking "better jungler wins" problem. They want junglers to have less influence, but they dont understand that you do that not by weakening our gold and XP availability, but by allowing us enough gold and XP that we can keep one another in check. Think about it; when was there the most gold and XP and otherwise access to power in the jungle? Feral Flare. When did junglers gank the least? Feral Flare Meta. As a jungler YOU HAVE TO HARD gank... there is no other viable playstyle because if you play a control style with hard farming / counter jungling you just fall so far behind because other jungler will have the same XP / gold as you despite being down up to 100 CS. They are further reinforcing that the best way to get gold and XP from the jungler is to chain gank... So be it, I guess.
Bot laners hate having a level 3 jungler show up when they were level 2... see how they feel when they have a level 6 mid laner showing up when they are level 4.. Ooof. Junglers likely will be level 4 still as well, meaning midlane will likely decide the jungle matchup every game too. Wonderful. They are trying to buff top, but i feel like they just hard buffed mid.
Support item changes look interesting.
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WTF this is huge. The terrain changes wont consciously impact 99% of soloQ, like people to really build strategies around it, they ll just use it like the jumping balls, but it will be important in pro games imo. All of the dragon souls look pretty game deciding to me, I mean usually the team that gets dragons is ahead and with these buffs, cant see many games being turned around. The XP changes I dont really understand. Cant they either buff solo lanes or nerf duo lanes if this is what they wanna do, but not both simultaneously? Also is this a hard nerf to mages bot, together with the support item gold limitation now? So, enchanters are coming back, if anyone will pick support anyway xD. I dont know, looks too big to comprehend, at least probably some tanks will see play again with the conqueror and the klepto changes
p.s. Happy I dont play jungle so I wont have to learn the game from beginning  ) I mean I'll have to of course but not as fucked up as the junglers
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The new Elder Dragon buff look so overpowering strong.... Can already see teams intentionally avoid getting a dragon soul because the only reasonable way they'd lose is if the opponent get elder buff. lol
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Who is going to get the AD support items? I dont understand, outside of Pyke and probably Senna what supports prefer ad than ap? Like who are these AD tanks supports? Renekton and Aatrox supports or what? Thresh perhaps ?
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Thresh and poppy maybe? And MF if she's still playable as a support
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Wasn't Riot supposed to add/rework AP bruiser items? Why are they focusing on lethality before doing that
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On October 17 2019 20:31 M2 wrote:
Who is going to get the AD support items? I dont understand, outside of Pyke and probably Senna what supports prefer ad than ap? Like who are these AD tanks supports? Renekton and Aatrox supports or what? Thresh perhaps ?
Kill lanes, off-meta and probably some future supports.
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Dragon-based map changes seem awful to me. "It affects both teams the same way" is just blatantly untrue, as people have pointed out. Plus just imagine you die because the enemy was able to rush in on a wind current that is only there in 25% of games. That might not be unbalanced, it's a feature of the map both teams can use (though of course some comps will like it more than others) but regardless of all that, it's just going to feel like shit when it's what gets you.
There is an awful tension in completing your quest making your gold generation go away. Ugh, so much of Riot's design feels like bandaids on top of bandaids at this point.
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I'm kind of torn... I really don't want to play jungle because it's unfun (playstyle I enjoy been nerfed off the face of the earth) and looking to get more unfun next season, but I also autowin like 30% of my games against filled junglers already this season.
As an old man I need as much Elo inflation as I can get because I never play. Lol.
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I hope Riot will do something about the top lane. I'm getting tired of being assigned top in 50% of my Fill games and getting utterly destroyed by top mains whenever I don't pick the crocodile.
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On October 20 2019 04:27 Sent. wrote:
I hope Riot will do something about the top lane. I'm getting tired of being assigned top in 50% of my Fill games and getting utterly destroyed by top mains whenever I don't pick the crocodile.
What can Riot do to help you beat top lane mains? :-)
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Do something to make other people want to play in that lane so I get to play in other lanes more frequently.
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On October 20 2019 05:47 Sent. wrote:
Do something to make other people want to play in that lane so I get to play in other lanes more frequently.
My impression is that people who play fill get 1 of the roles 50% of the time, but in different servers and elos is a different role, however, you'll always play one of the roles half of the time
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Yeah it might be hard capped somehow. Last time I checked my match history it was 10/20 top, now it's 11/20 top. If the hard cap is real then I'm glad it's there. I remember getting support in >90% of my games right after the new queue system was implemented.
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I get jungle at least 75% if I pick fill
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On October 20 2019 04:27 Sent. wrote:
I hope Riot will do something about the top lane. I'm getting tired of being assigned top in 50% of my Fill games and getting utterly destroyed by top mains whenever I don't pick the crocodile.
Yeah, top is probably by far the least popular role at the moment. I get top ~50% of the time and I queue support/top. It's pretty rediculous when you think about it.
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On October 20 2019 18:43 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2019 04:27 Sent. wrote:
I hope Riot will do something about the top lane. I'm getting tired of being assigned top in 50% of my Fill games and getting utterly destroyed by top mains whenever I don't pick the crocodile. Yeah, top is probably by far the least popular role at the moment. I get top ~50% of the time and I queue support/top. It's pretty rediculous when you think about it.
I Q for top/support and I was astonished when one day I realized that I am being autofilled more often than getting my secondary role and I was expecting to get it at least half of the time since support you know :-)) My mind is still deep in the past when people enjoyed top equally as mid
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Just learn Jax, he's OP when you can play him really well. And you mentioned it, when in doubt just play the croc, only people you have to worry about are Kennen mains and those are pretty rare.
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On October 20 2019 18:43 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2019 04:27 Sent. wrote:
I hope Riot will do something about the top lane. I'm getting tired of being assigned top in 50% of my Fill games and getting utterly destroyed by top mains whenever I don't pick the crocodile. Yeah, top is probably by far the least popular role at the moment. I get top ~50% of the time and I queue support/top. It's pretty rediculous when you think about it.
Idk, I think its fine. Just pick Malph or Jax. Two awesome, fun champs.
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Gotta agree with the sentiment about top being the least popular role.
As much as people hate the tank vs tank thing, it was also the least volatile time for top lane. You could get ganked, lose a wave or two, come back and still farm without getting your ass beat too badly from like 500g down as long as you built defensively and played safe. Junglers left the lane alone a lot of the time past a certain point because it was stupid hard to kill the tanks unless they were super overextended.
Fervor/Conqueror champs and turret plates means a bad death is coming back to lane down 700g+ down, in a lane where you can die super fast even with defensive itemization.
Or you pick a tank and a klepto ranged champ gets picked. Feels like you're just hard losing the lane unless you kill them over and over, because of how much free gold they're getting.
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imo top lane being unpopular is just top players having a whinge that they cant 1v9 the game with a carry champ anymore. top is still influential and fun to play, and id argue that the current meta allows for the biggest diversity in playable champs across all lanes excluding jg/sup.
the main difference now is as top lane you dont win by being the carry. just make their jungler come to your lane and waste time and the game is autowon. its not that bad of a strategy and it is far from boring so i dont see what the problem is tbh
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On October 22 2019 18:52 evilfatsh1t wrote:
imo top lane being unpopular is just top players having a whinge that they cant 1v9 the game with a carry champ anymore. top is still influential and fun to play, and id argue that the current meta allows for the biggest diversity in playable champs across all lanes excluding jg/sup.
the main difference now is as top lane you dont win by being the carry. just make their jungler come to your lane and waste time and the game is autowon. its not that bad of a strategy and it is far from boring so i dont see what the problem is tbh
Yeah, the role of top these days is to babysit the rest of the map, either by making the enemy jungler come to you, or by running TP and cleaning up stupid engages in bot lane. But a lot of people hate that kind of meta in soloQ, which I understand, because the rest of the map can go to shit anyway and there's very little you can do about it since you're a mile away. Plus a bad TP means you die and lose an incredible amount of exp and gold, vs bruisers that basically means the lane is over.
There are still lots of champs in the top lane that can still carry 1vs9 (Jax, Irelia, Riven, Akali), in fact my big gripe with top lane is that there are so many niche matchups where a champion hard counters yours and there's nothing you can do to them all game long, unless your jungler is willing to seriously help you. A lot of that is down to how OP Conquerer is, bonus true damage with sustain is insane.
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Aren't there counter matchup for literally every champ? There are even champions that counter entire comps.
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yeah saying top is unpopular because you cant do anything against counters is a pretty poor excuse.
quinn counters renekton in lane but you dont see quinns every game theres a renekton because renekton does more for the team throughout the duration of the entire game. if you cry about being countered at top and therefore top lane sucks it just shows your understanding of the game is limited to "win top laning phase = win game".
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Didn't say that hard counters are a reason for the role being unpopular, put it in a separate paragraph, but I guess it can be read like that.
if you cry about being countered at top and therefore top lane sucks it just shows your understanding of the game is limited to "win top laning phase = win game".
Well I agree with what you said, but I'm coming from a soloQ mentality, where relying on your team to do the right thing is not a great way to climb. And in the bot lane, win lane = win game is a real thing, since two champions snowball and then rotate to the rest of the map. In mid lane, winning lane usually means you can roam, lane is also shorter so pushing hard isn't always punished. In top, Renekton is only going to do more than Quinn if his team survives until the point where big skirmishes/fights happen, and he doesn't fall massively behind in lane. The real reason you don't see Quinn is because she's an unpopular champion and most top laners don't know how to play her, let alone own her. In a meta where lanes snowball hard off turrets and more kill gold, I'll gladly pick Quinn top lane into Renekton if the enemy team allows for it, and try to carry with the lead I make in the first 10-15 minutes. Especially because she's a great roamer, lets her invade the enemy jungle and gank mid if she tracks her own jungler.
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On October 22 2019 22:20 evilfatsh1t wrote:
yeah saying top is unpopular because you cant do anything against counters is a pretty poor excuse.
quinn counters renekton in lane but you dont see quinns every game theres a renekton because renekton does more for the team throughout the duration of the entire game. if you cry about being countered at top and therefore top lane sucks it just shows your understanding of the game is limited to "win top laning phase = win game".
How is it a poor excuse? The counter matches in toplane are pure and simply not fun, when a lane is frequently not fun to play of course it's bound to become unpopular. It was exactly the same with support years ago where boots and Shurelya was full build.
A counter match up in toplane = you dont get to play the game. Half of the actual fun match ups are being ruined by jungler intervention.
Being hard countered in any of the other roles you can still play the game. Simply by design of how they are more interactive with each other.
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Most lanes besides top (and arguably jungle, but that is also lane dependent) don't have meaningful counters. So I don't even understand the point. Unless you are like an Amumu mid main or something.
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EPT
