EPTHoly moly the DPS from IE RFC PD is so low, I didn't realize crit Lucian does so poorly. RFC and PD are both the worst Zeal items though in terms of damage.
[Patch 9.6] Corgi Corki General Discussion - Page 2
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
Holy moly the DPS from IE RFC PD is so low, I didn't realize crit Lucian does so poorly. RFC and PD are both the worst Zeal items though in terms of damage. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On March 22 2019 20:49 Ansibled wrote: Target dummies have 10,000 hitpoints and 100 armour and you're getting more blade of the ruined king procs with rageblade. If you're comparing 3 item Lucian of Botrk/BC/(Zeal Item) with Botrk/Rageblade/WitsEnd then I think it's pretty clear why you get more damage on the target dummies. Having just Blade of the Ruined King and no other items beats out a 3 item standard crit build in damage quite noticeably. Trying to zero hp the dummy I think crit should win out at some point in the item build though. I just did some testing and this is what I got trying to do 10,000 damage to the dummy. (I bought zerker books for each). I just used the basic abilities to attack the dummy. BotRK 539 dps BotRK BC PD 758 dps BotRK Rageblade WitsEnd 958 dps BotRK Rageblade WitsEnd Stormrazor RFC 1337 dps IE RFC PD 500 dps IE RFC PD ER LW (LDR) 1033 dps IE RFC PD ER Stormrazor 1000 dps BotRK BC PD RFC IE 1355 dps It's worth noting that there's some variance in Lucian dps calcuation based on using your skills optimally and crit. If you dash a short distance you do more DPS because it takes less time, I tried to do it as short as possible each time but it's obviously not exactly the same. It seems like way too much effort to go and do it like 5 times and average it though.You could look at damage done in combos like doing auto Q auto W auto E auto but this heavily favours BotRK builds which have a lot more frontloaded DPS because of current hp scaling. So maybe it's pretty close, but you're never going to be hitting a 10,000 hp target in a real game. I let the parse run until the DPS stabilized (botrk being current%) so the 10k HP didn't play any significant factor. In most cases I dont think it's the better build, especially on bursty characters like Lucian since crits are way more frontloaded. But it's a pretty curious result IMO. I could definitely see Wit's End as a core item on Corki since he synergize so well with it's mpen, often against AP in mid and it makes him have strong big spike after Triforce and to some degree Rageblade thanks to it's pseudo-voidstaff passive. Triforce/Wits/Botrk/Rageblade Corki maybe? On March 22 2019 22:36 DarkCore wrote: BC PD isn't just bought for DPS though, the health is what makes Lucian such a strong 1vs1 champ. Although I'm surprised that the on hit build is so good. Holy moly the DPS from IE RFC PD is so low, I didn't realize crit Lucian does so poorly. RFC and PD are both the worst Zeal items though in terms of damage. Yeah. I was surprised at how much lower IE builds perform compared to what I expected. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if builds that drop IE for items like Mercurial/GA/LW/BC/BT would outperform it by far in an actual game. Unless you have 100% crit it seem like IE is not even worth it at all and even then you could instead just have one of the mentioned items and have way higher defensive stats while seemingly barely losing any significant damage. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On March 23 2019 00:02 Jek wrote: I let the parse run until the DPS stabilized (botrk being current%) so the 10k HP didn't play any significant factor. I don't understand. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
After enough auto attacks botrk basically offers no additional damage from it's passive since the dummy's current HP have a lower cap at 100. Keep attacking and eventually the DPS meter will reach a point where the bonus damage from botrk basically pay no part of your DPS value. In a real game situation the DPS from the on-hit build will be higher and you can benefit from multi procs from Hurricane too, so the on-hit will actually in practice have higher DPS than what the test show. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On March 23 2019 00:35 DarkCore wrote: Corki generally prefers crit builds because his passive makes it hard to itemise vs him as a squishy. He's not a DPS champion no matter how you build him, you just always deal damage against everything and have the potential to blow enemies up really easily once you have TF, RFC IE core. On hit Corki ult would suck for example, and he's not getting much from stacking Gunsoos. If he's winning sustained fights, he's probably very ahead and could build practically anything. His passive makes it easier to itemise against him? 90% of his damage is magic thanks to it and his spells. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
Corki generally prefers crit builds because his passive makes it hard to itemise vs him as a squishy. Corki's burst has a fair amount of attack damage attached to it, simply because 50% of the Sheen proc still remains as AD. There is also the very often forgotten aspect that most ADC, in fact most champions, have far worse MR scaling than Armor. Also, Corki is strongest at three items, and no ADC is going to have Maw at that point unless they are insanely fed or your whole team is AP, in which case picking Corki was probably a dumb idea. This is assuming Corki mid, because he's pretty lackluster in the bot lane, he scales hard off of levels and has a bunch of bad matchups bot. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On March 23 2019 00:45 Jek wrote: After enough auto attacks botrk basically offers no additional damage from it's passive since the dummy's current HP have a lower cap at 100. Keep attacking and eventually the DPS meter will reach a point where the bonus damage from botrk basically pay no part of your DPS value. In a real game situation the DPS from the on-hit build will be higher and you can benefit from multi procs from Hurricane too, so the on-hit will actually in practice have higher DPS than what the test show. why would you go on hit lucian? what in his kit is actually proccing on hit well? his passive yes but it is good with ad also, plus ult scales with ad why not go botrk/rageblade/wits end on every adc if this was so good oh wait you're literally full proccing a rageblade and going oh look on hit lucian so good how many teamfights do you think you'll get to hit a lot with a full procced rageblade? also botrk and black cleaver and phantom dancer all have really good utility value that you probably don't take into account if you are comparing with on hit build | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On March 23 2019 03:30 Slayer91 wrote: why would you go on hit lucian? what in his kit is actually proccing on hit well? his passive yes but it is good with ad also, plus ult scales with ad why not go botrk/rageblade/wits end on every adc if this was so good oh wait you're literally full proccing a rageblade and going oh look on hit lucian so good how many teamfights do you think you'll get to hit a lot with a full procced rageblade? also botrk and black cleaver and phantom dancer all have really good utility value that you probably don't take into account if you are comparing with on hit build I'm not saying it's a better build but just an odd result I most certainly didn't expect. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
assuming you are talking 4-5 item builds i think crit will do a lot more damage | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On March 23 2019 03:59 Slayer91 wrote: i mean i dont really believe your results either whatever they are assuming you are talking 4-5 item builds i think crit will do a lot more damage I'd assume crit does more for champs like cait or ashe, but for champs with on-hit passives like kaisa or vayne, it gets a little more nebulous. Also, crit requires you to get there. On-hit builds are just so much stronger early-midgame than most crit builds atm. Lategame fights my gut feeling is that crit builds are a lot burstier with abilities and autos that are amped up, but on-hit could outscale it dps-wise once rageblade is stacked up, and is harder to itemize against. Very champ dependant IMO. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
both champs tend to get crit items a lot these days anyway, maybe with botrk or botrk+rageblade first in vaynes case, but I see kaisa get IE first now | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2396 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On March 27 2019 09:34 Turbovolver wrote: The real point is as Jek originally said. Rageblade is stupid. This! On March 23 2019 03:59 Slayer91 wrote: i mean i dont really believe your results either whatever they are assuming you are talking 4-5 item builds i think crit will do a lot more damage Then you can just go into practice tool and run a damage parse.  Until your second AD item the IE build is a lot weaker without any real significant spikes compared to on-hit that has a huge spike on every single buy through the entire game. The IE build will eventually outscale it at around 4 items (not including boots) depending on champion. Since you need a second AD item for IE to be comparable in terms of damage the numbers suggest you should always go for a "bigboi AD item" first, you need AD to take advantage of IE now before you didn't need it as much since it was +50% bonus. Stormrazor->Shiv/Cannon->IE seems like a by far better route towards the 2x Zeal builds rather than the rush that's currently popular, especially if you run Fleet as your keystone. - this is probably also way Draven is considered strong, Dravens are not wasting money early on IE. lol In short I do think the crit builds are the strongest on any ADC without on-hit synergy, but I dont think the popular IE + 2xZeal rush is good. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35170 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
The support can literally stand on the wave and walk at you level 1, 2, maybe not 3 depending (this is zilians strongest level based power spike) probably 4 and 5. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On March 31 2019 07:47 Gahlo wrote: Anybody try to make Kayle/Zilean work as a bot lane yet? Yes and it was wonderful. | ||
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