EPT[Patch 8.12] Shield Champ Nerfs General Discussion - Page 4
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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General_Winter
United States719 Posts
WoL had a lot going for it and it would not have been that hard for blizzard to have had a run away success with it if they had only been just a little bit less arrogant and listened to their customers more. As a disclaimer I may be biased since I did put a decent amount of time into playing WoL getting my toss and Zerg to diamond and my Terran to high plat (though to be fair I kinda cheated on Terran since I never learned macro for that race and just used timing attacks) | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
Blizzard management is just very headstrong and not particularly smart. You see the exact same type of mistakes in basically all their titles. Hearthstone and Overwatch learnt basically nothing from SC2. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On June 16 2018 06:45 Numy wrote: I like dota 2, sc2, bw and league. Don't really get the hate for either of them, they all do some stuff well and others poorly. Think BW is prob the only one that stands out. Do miss days of Quake being the FPS game too far more fun than CS :D. I do mostly play league though, find it's just the better easier solo game out of them all. RTS is too hard man. edit: Freak how could I forget TF2. That game may be most fun I've had being semi-competitive. Man. Why did you have to bring Quake up. Still miss it and still get even more bummed out when I log into one of the OG servers and get clapped to oblivion and back. It's impressive just how much you can deteriorate over time. lol | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On June 16 2018 07:21 Slusher wrote: It’s not really about balance as much as how they tried to get ogn to cave to them and failed Honestly that part really doesn't matter much. All they had to do was create a proper custom map finder and help the decent ones get traction. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 16 2018 07:32 Numy wrote: It was a lot of poor decisions. When WoL was first released they refused to use other comp maps and instead forced really shit maps on both ladder as well as their competitions. Then there was that whole fighting with Kespa and OGN. Blizzard management is just very headstrong and not particularly smart. You see the exact same type of mistakes in basically all their titles. Hearthstone and Overwatch learnt basically nothing from SC2. I mean, D3 was easily their greatest failure. D2 is still a game that holds up and you can play through over and over even in 2018. In making D3 they tried combining the random drops of D2 with the gearchecks of WOW and the constant gear treadmill of WOW and it never could get past that initial really bad opening gambit. SC2, I would argue, had a very low chance of consistent success once there were real developers in the MOBA space, because I don't think a pure RTS (maybe if they had made it more like WC3 with heroes, etc) can compete with MOBAs for the casual player. Which, in some ways makes HOTS the greatest failure, because if they pushed out HOTS before LOL, and just made it a boring standard MOBA at launch, they also have a good chance to dominate the space. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
HOTS they just took forever to get on the MOBA train then they couldn't figure out what game they wanted to make so they redid it a bunch of time. When they finally released the game it has terrible design decisions such as locking hero talents behind player level. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On June 16 2018 07:16 General_Winter wrote: Yeah. I think people are really underestimating the shear number of bad balance and development choices Blizzard made and how obnoxious and rude they were to their community and fans. Blizzard tried really hard to not be liked. WoL had a lot going for it and it would not have been that hard for blizzard to have had a run away success with it if they had only been just a little bit less arrogant and listened to their customers more. As a disclaimer I may be biased since I did put a decent amount of time into playing WoL getting my toss and Zerg to diamond and my Terran to high plat (though to be fair I kinda cheated on Terran since I never learned macro for that race and just used timing attacks) i remember rather well. blizzard is mainly the reason i stopped playing a couple months into release. in hindsight i should've stopped in beta but i was still hopeful | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
I started playing league in August 2011 and I have quit here and there. I was burnt out on SC2 was the main reason I switched and league was just a game I had heard about so I tried it out. Had never played a MOBA before I actually recently picked up LotV and its really fun to me again. There is a lot going on so it will never be a casual game but I hope it stays as a competitive one. It is fun to watch for me. | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4124 Posts
Csgo is super easy to follow and major viewership is still growing. Crowds also skew older than other esports, so I'm pretty sure it's the most mainstream. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On June 16 2018 09:14 Fildun wrote: SC2 would've never popped off. It's single player focused and there is very little teamwork in multiplayer. The gameplay loop is also way more repetitive than a moba's one. That's why the complete failure of a custom game system hurt so bad. There was so much potential for new casual timewasters with the new editor.  Even if esports took off in korea the west probably wouldn't really have gone much different. But if it had launched with the free arcade it has now, and a proper system for people to actually publish and find maps, it could have completely blown up among casual audiences. | ||
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IamPryda
United States1186 Posts
On June 16 2018 09:11 Bladeorade wrote: What were the horrible balance decisions Blizzard made in WoL? I recall them being dicks with KESPA totally screwing them but I don't remember weird balance problems. I was masters Zerg and Protoss on NA and i played until the summer of 2011. I started playing league in August 2011 and I have quit here and there. I was burnt out on SC2 was the main reason I switched and league was just a game I had heard about so I tried it out. Had never played a MOBA before I actually recently picked up LotV and its really fun to me again. There is a lot going on so it will never be a casual game but I hope it stays as a competitive one. It is fun to watch for me. There were a couple of bad patches for wol The infamous “queen patch” was probably the worst. But it was also blizzards cockiness and David Kim balencing what he wanted rather then what the game needed. I stopped playing shortly after the release of the first expansion which pretty much where the player base and viewer base left in the millions for mobas. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9331 Posts
My experience with sc2 was that after I my "passion" got burned out I never came back to playing the game for more than one hour a day on average. With League, it's different - I can get bored with the game and not play it for a month, but eventually I always come back to playing multiple games a day. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
Protoss had a high winrate consistently below Diamond in WoL, pretty much because they were so much easier to play for low level players. It was build a doom stack and roll over the Zerg who didn't understand his 200 supply army sucks, or the Terran who thought he could build pure mech and replenish his losses fast enough after battles. And it was because game mechanics were balanced around the top of the ladder, little attention was given to everyone else. Likewise, Blizzard didn't care at all about the team modes, which I could understand because 1vs1 is where the real skill is, until quite late in WoL when they started adding more maps into the pool. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Idk, I never thought balance was too bad except during the beta, but I'm a zerg main, so I'm not sure if my opinions count. The main issue is just that the game is not all that fun imo. And it's difficult to form a group of friends using only battle.net 0.2 | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
The problem wasn't deathball, the problem was deathball off of 3 bases, which any race including mech terran could do. And maps since beta almost always allowed for easy 3rd base. You can imagine how that leads to stale gameplay. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
1) the increased worker efficiency without increasing supply limit means everyone was basically limited to 3 bases before they can comfortably max, meaning the game was less of an economical battle 2) lack of strong defensive units and AoE meant deathballing was super strong. There was so much bullshit defense in sc:bw that meant that the game was more of a war of attrition and losing armies wasn't the biggest deal because you were constantly rebuilding plus you had defenses up. zerg: Plague, dark swarm, lurkers terran: Tanks, mines protoss: reavers, HT, dark archons (vs air) these things made the game possible to have power spikes where one side had map control and was looking to increase an advantage while the other side was trying to reach some timing of his own like 2/1 mech or hive+ultras or protoss carriers or 200/200 that said i didnt play that much of the later expansions of sc2 but I found it seems to be a lot more about timing your deathball to be able to deal with their deathball zzzz also wasnt very interesting to watch I mean league sint too interesting to watch either but its fun to play at least | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
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