EPT[Patch 8.12] Shield Champ Nerfs General Discussion - Page 5
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Fildun
Netherlands4124 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On June 17 2018 04:08 DarkCore wrote: I honestly enjoyed watching SCII, there's a sort of charm to the fast paced, tight build orders coupled with skirmishes that often rely on pure mechanical ability. But that only becomes a positive when you are invested in the game, and know what is happening, because otherwise you just watch a bunch of units pop out of buildings and eventually run towards the enemy base. Still more clear than MOBAs lol. Gaming in general isn't very friendly for non-players to watch like regular sports. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On June 18 2018 05:41 nafta wrote: Still more clear than MOBAs lol. Gaming in general isn't very friendly for non-players to watch like regular sports. i'd argue american football is a fucking terrible spectator sport | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On June 18 2018 05:51 Frolossus wrote: i'd argue american football is a fucking terrible spectator sport Agreed, only because the camera angles do a poor job of showing a play developing. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On June 18 2018 05:41 nafta wrote: Still more clear than MOBAs lol. Gaming in general isn't very friendly for non-players to watch like regular sports. csgo is pretty simple. It's generally pretty clear why hype moments are hype, it's clear when someone does something good or bad because the other guy is dead, and the difficulty in clicking on something small quickly is a simple enough concept that you don't have to have the commentators constantly trying to justify the difficulty of whats going on. (Looking at starcraft there.) Plus the stop start nature of counterstrike gives it a really nice flow. Only real downside is you don't really get the same degree special off meta strategies or unique games which you get from original build orders in starcraft, or niche/unique team comps in league, so if you aren't invested in one of the teams or #storylines, it can get a bit samey to watch after a while. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8938 Posts
the mechanics are easy to follow but id argue the strategy is difficult as fuck. probably harder than mobas for pure spectators. | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
I haven't followed pro LoL for a while, but I catch a game on youtube every now and then. Did so a few days ago and of course was greeted with the craziness that is the current state of the game. Farm priority and multiple 4+ TPs looked much like DotA, so I wasn't surprised to see a debate about the pros/cons of the two games here. Although they're just anecdotes, I do think that there is value in hearing what drew or pushed someone to/from the game. LoL was my first MOBA (played WC3 melee exclusively, never got heavily into DotA). I played it a ton and watching the esports side of it was initially a window into improving my own game. In time the storylines, characters, teams became the primary way I followed the game (as I'm sure it did for most of us). The game itself became just the canvas the players painted on. I followed LoL closely for years, but I struggled to go back once I (properly) discovered DotA. There wasn't one thing that did it, but one of the biggest reasons* I could pinpoint was how the size and value of the map, hyper focused design of the heroes, the way kill gold is distributed (much lower rewards for heroes with low value items) and the power level (or structure) of the items combined to change the way farm was allocated and produced vastly more variety in hero picks and team comps. It was impossible not to see LoL's enforced meta as incredibly stale and their constant balance tweaks nothing but smoke and mirrors. Enforced change in the place of a game deep enough to allow the players freedom to shift it on their own. Last week was the first time I've ever seen some of the things I like most about DotA. I don't know where Riot will take the game from here, but if they've learned something about what makes DotA so good then they'll definitely have my attention. I'm not a fanboy, I freely acknowledge that there are some things about LoL that are far better designed then in DotA and a combination of what both games do right would be extremely interesting. I hope they keep iterating on this and resist the urge reinforce the old order. *FTR other main components were the huge amount of vision and small map size in LoL producing extremely low action games and the open circuit in the pro scene. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8938 Posts
you are much better with words than i am. basically why i think riot fails at their job of game developing in 1 simple sentence. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
On June 16 2018 15:18 IamPryda wrote: There were a couple of bad patches for wol The infamous “queen patch” was probably the worst. But it was also blizzards cockiness and David Kim balencing what he wanted rather then what the game needed. I stopped playing shortly after the release of the first expansion which pretty much where the player base and viewer base left in the millions for mobas. What was the queen patch? Maybe I stopped playing before then | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
On June 18 2018 21:51 Bladeorade wrote: What was the queen patch? Maybe I stopped playing before then Queens got 5 range instead of 3. That practically meant hellion openers weren't even half as effective. If I recall correctly. | ||
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General_Winter
United States719 Posts
Edit: it also changed ZvZ a lot. If I recall, prior to that patch you could play muta ling or roach hydra and after the queen buff you could play ling queen infestor with a late game transition to ultra ling. That lasted until they removed the root from infestors | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On June 19 2018 01:51 General_Winter wrote: Yeah. Queen patch was a big deal. Prior to that patch the game had been pretty consistently imbalanced in favor of Terran with Zerg only winning when vastly better than their Terran opponents. GSLs immediately prior to that patch would have 20 out of 32 players as Terran. It was pretty egregious. Patch made a big difference in that match up, allowing zergs to do better than even against similarly skilled Terrans. It never got to a point where Zerg was over represented like Terran was previously, but a lot of players came out of the woodwork. Edit: it also changed ZvZ a lot. If I recall, prior to that patch you could play muta ling or roach hydra and after the queen buff you could play ling queen infestor with a late game transition to ultra ling. That lasted until they removed the root from infestors I think the queen buff made it possible to go for a pretty quick 3 base in ZvZ in a lot of cases. Im not sure whether it made Zerg OP vs Terran or not, I think one could make a case for it but I haven't watched too much sc2 after the arrival of patchzergs. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
It’s funny because I played Protoss and I downplayed force field, I got hit by mass fungal like once and quit the game | ||
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General_Winter
United States719 Posts
On June 19 2018 02:34 Slusher wrote: I don’t remember if it was a buff or just the community realizing how broken fungal was that killed WOL for me. Once mass infestor became the meta the game got real boring real quick for me. It’s funny because I played Protoss and I downplayed force field, I got hit by mass fungal like once and quit the game I think mass infestor was a down stream effect of queen buff. It’s been a while so my memory may be off, but pre buff in order to be safe you had to get speed ASAP and usually follow up with the capability to get either banelings or roaches. After the queen buff you could hold almost all normal (ie not all-in) aggression with queens and slow lings. And if they were not very Agro you could take a very fast third and hold that with queens and slow lings. That meant you had a lot more surplus gas earlier in the game and could get lair and infestor den much faster which then let you pump out mass infestor and have time for them to build up energy before major mid game battles. Haveing more queens also let you spread creep much faster for better vision which let you see things coming in time to get infestors where they were needed instead of needing to rely on fast units. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On June 19 2018 02:34 Slusher wrote: I don’t remember if it was a buff or just the community realizing how broken fungal was that killed WOL for me. Once mass infestor became the meta the game got real boring real quick for me. It’s funny because I played Protoss and I downplayed force field, I got hit by mass fungal like once and quit the game Thank you for confirming my hypothesis that the main secret that fuels protoss players is hypocrisy. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On June 19 2018 06:50 Scip wrote: Thank you for confirming my hypothesis that the main secret that fuels protoss players is hypocrisy. Protoss are fueled by finely aged cheese and 1A steak sauce. | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On June 18 2018 08:59 killerdog wrote: csgo is pretty simple. It's generally pretty clear why hype moments are hype, it's clear when someone does something good or bad because the other guy is dead, and the difficulty in clicking on something small quickly is a simple enough concept that you don't have to have the commentators constantly trying to justify the difficulty of whats going on. (Looking at starcraft there.) Plus the stop start nature of counterstrike gives it a really nice flow. Only real downside is you don't really get the same degree special off meta strategies or unique games which you get from original build orders in starcraft, or niche/unique team comps in league, so if you aren't invested in one of the teams or #storylines, it can get a bit samey to watch after a while. The mechanics are pretty simple, but the game itself is an unwatchable mess to anyone that doesn't play (along with any FPS game, really). Without the ability to properly pan-out to track the movement of the players (and sorry, a radar in the top of my screen doesn't cut it), it's really difficult to follow the action other than a few kills here and there. And it's tough to allow for pan-out when the end result is invisible walls and a glitchy-looking map. RTS still has a lot of cluster-fuckery with the camera moving all over the place, so MOBA's are probably the easiest to watch as a non-playe. And then there's still tons of information that's pretty meaningless to the casual viewer... My wife doesn't even know what a BF Sword is but she follows competitive League more closely than I do. I'm pretty sure it's because most of the action centers around the objectives, and the team-gold is always on screen and acts as a loose "score" on top of turret and dragon/baron counts, so she's able to keep track of which team is winning. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
I have played this game for 8 years and it can still be difficult to follow teamfights. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On June 19 2018 09:01 Nemireck wrote: The mechanics are pretty simple, but the game itself is an unwatchable mess to anyone that doesn't play (along with any FPS game, really). Without the ability to properly pan-out to track the movement of the players (and sorry, a radar in the top of my screen doesn't cut it), it's really difficult to follow the action other than a few kills here and there. And it's tough to allow for pan-out when the end result is invisible walls and a glitchy-looking map. RTS still has a lot of cluster-fuckery with the camera moving all over the place, so MOBA's are probably the easiest to watch as a non-playe. And then there's still tons of information that's pretty meaningless to the casual viewer... My wife doesn't even know what a BF Sword is but she follows competitive League more closely than I do. I'm pretty sure it's because most of the action centers around the objectives, and the team-gold is always on screen and acts as a loose "score" on top of turret and dragon/baron counts, so she's able to keep track of which team is winning. I've never played CS:GO in my life. I never even paid attention to it until TSM signed their 1st GS:GO team and it took me only a short while to work out the general flow of the game. Literally the only thing I had to look up was how the economy worked because the casters assume you know that getting kills with different classes of guns(and a few exceptions) confer different $ amounts. | ||
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