2018 Esports General Discussion - Page 6

On March 27 2018 23:35 Numy wrote:
That was pretty coherent to me Ads and I agree with it all.

This may be a cultural thing but I really dislike how little rights esports employees have over there. Essentially pressured into living with a bunch of people 24/7 while working all day with little to no progression in life outside of this one tiny avenue. It baffles me any of this is legal and why no one is making a fuss about this.

On March 27 2018 22:49 AdsMoFro wrote:
The short version of my opinion on this:

I think some blame lies on Maria but the majority of the blame lies on Badawi. We must first remember the kind of character that Badawi has shown time and time again. Lying about being a lawyer, threatening to take the one dream that she ever had if she didn't listen to him etc. He's in a position of power as the owner/manager of the team. Therefore, it is within his duty of care. For her, it is obvious she will say yes to whatever he says. Firstly, at this point, he's already threatened to take it away once. If she turns it down, is there a chance it will ever happen again? She's in an extremely poor mental state at this point, and who does she go and see next? Just happens to be Badawi's mother.

The second question you ask yourself is why a person who is essentially your boss is offering to pay for and arrange your treatment an ethical process? Probably not. If he was truly altruistic, he wouldn't have put the onus on him, just would've said okay it will cost $10k, if we make LCS I will give you the 10k bonus and you can use it how you see fit. By taking control over her treatment he is essentially manipulating her into staying under his control. Bullshit like "I gave her her own room" and "special treatment" shows that he believes himself to be some sort of morally superior person when in fact it was just to keep her under his control. This fucker is slime of the worst type. If Monte couldn't realise that then he deserved to lose Renegades.

Pretty tired, so excuse typos/general incoherence.

On March 28 2018 01:01 Redox wrote:

It is pretty extreme but if you want to keep being at the top you simply have to put in these kind of hours. I would not directly put that on the owners, it comes with the game per se. Also I am pretty sure many players (especially the younger ones) actually prefer to live in a gaming house and only focus on gaming. Simply because it costs them nothing and they do not have to take care of anything.

I am sure players could live on their own if they wanted to and would pay for it themselves. They could afford it easily with their really good salary but just prefer to save that money and effort. After all these are not your average college students, it is hardcore gamers that have lived in that rather extreme and narrow way for years before LCS. Now within an LCS team they probably live a healthier live than before.

On March 28 2018 01:42 Numy wrote:

I do question if you do have to put in those hours to be on top or if people are really just wasting so much time because there is no real limit forced on them. How many of those "10 hours a day" are being used in efficient manner? If they instead did 6-8 hours a day at a high intense effective manner would that be worse? I don't know the answer to these questions but I do feel they should be looked at.

Maybe some do prefer it, maybe some don't but due to it being the way it is they do it. Maybe others believe they like it like it is but if given support would actually land up enjoying it another way. Again it's so hard to tell.

At the end of the day I just can't help shake the feeling that esports has been set up in a way that's more akin to sweatshop exploitation disguised as being generous over a good sustainable model that will help serve these players and the industry as a whole better down the line. I'm a huge fan of empowering employees with more than just the job, helping them develop skills while working for you that elevates them and helps them progress. I'm sad I don't see any of this really happening in esport.

edit: I should mention this is obviously tied into how much absurd money there is in the industry right now. When people are scrapping by I can understand focusing more on the here and now.

On March 28 2018 03:01 cLutZ wrote:


This is the nature of esports trying to professionalize before the money really is there, and because of that they have focused on streaming/live tv rights instead of ticket sales. Every other sport had similar problems. Most players in baseball, football, basketball, etc had second jobs. Even many umpires and refs in the NFL, NBA, & MLB had 2nd jobs into the 90s just to stay afloat. Instead of pulling a 6-8 hour shift at Mcdonalds or a grocery store, Esports players pull a shift streaming. This makes them more money than flipping burgers or stocking shelves, but it is not the same job. It might be rolled into their inflated salary, but its not the same.

So IMO its a total misperception that they spend all that time on their "job", which is being LCS pros. They are working a second job that just happens to also involve gaming. Until esports can play the worst players $1 Million a year, and extend the average career to 5, 6 years just for playing in stage games and scrims, then its not a professional sport. That is why you need to focus on selling out stadiums, gate revenue is how you get the TV contracts, not the other way around. Most pro sports got most revenue from gate until the late 90s, and baseball still gets more from gate IIRC.

On March 28 2018 03:52 Redox wrote:
I dont understand this post at all. LCS players easily make enough money to be called pro. They make more money than they need because they dont spend much and I would guess like 90% of net income goes straight to the bank and will never be used until after the career. In fact I believe current wages are too high to be sustainable.

Also most players dont stream or just sporadically, so I dont know where you are coming from. And if they stream it is usually just their soloQ games that they play anyway.

If they all streamed they would not have viewer numbers that would generate enough income to be relevant compared to their salaries.

On March 28 2018 06:34 JimmiC wrote:


Sometimes people need to take personal responsibility for their actions including financially. There is a human condition seemingly where people spend what they make and in pro sports and esports that number is not usually sustainable. This is not the fault of the industry but on the individual to realize this and budget accordingly. It is like lottery winners blaming the lottery for them blowing their money, I get it to some degree but on the other hand not everything is someone else's fault. At some point people have to take responsibility for their decisions and actions.